Cast Bullet weight

[ga_red_rider]

I've been shooting for 41 years, And at 54 I have decided I am way over due casting my own bullets. Thought about it for years but today is the day. I have a Lee melting pot (bottom pour) Lee aluminum 2 - 45 cal 230 grain mold and cast 100 bullets today from some ingot that I got. My son and I had a great time doing it.
It's now the 3rd quarter of 2011 and I've got the bug. Casting for many pistol caliber and now looking at casting for my rifles. Hard to beat the satisfaction of sending your own bullets down range :-)
Thanks for all the help you folks have given me.

[Slow Elk 45/70]

Hullo and Welcome. Your softer boolits should be fine if you keep the velocity around 800-900fps....if they are sized correctly for your pistol's BBL. about .001-.002 over size works for most.
If you want to harden them, you can water drop them and harden them as long as the mix is not pure lead. This is a short answer , there is a ton of information in the Classics & Stickies and also a lot of good info if you go to the bottom of the page at the LASC site...good luck

[243winxb]

You would seem to have a lot of pure lead in your alloy.
Bullet Sizes and Weights-
How to Vary Them

The bullet diameters and weights presented in this list are based on the use of Taracorp’s Lawrence Magnum bullet alloy (2% tin, 6% antimony, 1/4% arsenic, 91.75% lead).

You should be aware that bullet diameters and weights will vary considerably depending on the lead casting alloy used. This variation can be as much as 1/2% on the diameter, and 8% on the weight among the most commonly used casting alloys. For example, a .358-158 grain bullet might show a diameter variation of .002", and a 13 grain difference in weight.

In order to provide a hard bullet, and due to the availability of high antimony content alloys such as scrap wheel weights and type metal, many casters are using high antimony content alloys. SAECO moulds work well with these high antimony content leads, but you should be aware of the variations they may produce.

Of the most commonly used alloys, wheel weights (.5% tin, 4% antimony, 95% lead) will produce bullets having the smallest diameter and heaviest weight, with such bullets running approximately .3% smaller in diameter and 3% heavier than bullets cast with Taracorp's metal. Linotype will produce bullets with the largest diameter and lightest weights. This alloy will produce bullets approximately 1/10% larger and 3% lighter than Taracorp. Other alloys of tin and antimony, with antimony content above 5%, will produce bullets with diameters and weights falling between those cast from wheel weights and linotype.

Alloys containing little or no antimony will cast considerably smaller than wheel weights and in some cases will produce bullets too small for adequate sizing. Within the limitations given above, the weight and diameter of a cast bullet can be adjusted by varying the alloy’s antimony content.

The size and weight of bullets of a given alloy will also vary according to casting temperature. Higher temperatures will result in greater shrinkage as the bullet cools, thereby producing a slightly smaller and lighter bullet than one cast of the same alloy at a lower temperature.

http://www.redding-reloading.com/pages/bulletweights.html

[runfiverun]

lets see you just tested a freshly cast ww [.5/3/96.5] most likely boolit against a fully hardened 2/6/92 commercial.
and it was way softer.
wait a week or so and see if your results change much.
if not then you have very soft lead.
it takes a bit for new boolits to reach their full hardness.
if they poured out well with nothing added you should be okay with your alloy.
and i'd load a few and give them a try some unique powder will do fine.

[ga_red_rider]

lets see you just tested a freshly cast ww [.5/3/96.5] most likely boolit against a fully hardened 2/6/92 commercial.
and it was way softer.
wait a week or so and see if your results change much.
if not then you have very soft lead.
it takes a bit for new boolits to reach their full hardness.
if they poured out well with nothing added you should be okay with your alloy.
and i'd load a few and give them a try some unique powder will do fine.

I have been looking through my reloading manual and see that unique is very good with many cast bullets. I will do what you reccomend and try hardness testing in a few days although I dont really understand what difference that would make.
I didnt get a change to measure diameter last night but will do that as soon as I arrive home today to see how they look. thanks for the fast response.

[Char-Gar]

I have yet to encounter a bullet mold that threw a bullet that weights exactly what the specs call for. I really don't worry about it.

In the main, lead is the real heavy stuff in an alloy with tin being lighter and antimony still lighter yet.

[gray wolf]

Nice job and a great start

Try to get your lead pot just hot enough to give you good bullets. With mine if the spout freezes and the lead is still molten I know I am a little cool,and I go up a notch. It wont take long to get the hang of it. Did you get any frosted bullets? that would be a good indication of to much heat, but they shoot ok if everything else is Ok.
Yes the lead will harden if it is not pure--I try to have mine for the 45 acp so my calibrated finger nail slides over the bullet rather than digging in. Try to find a piece of pure to compare.
Check your as cast bullet diameter --the extra weight could be from your mold throwing large bullets, if they are within spec your alloy could be a little rich in lead.
Good job and keep us posted.

[Char-Gar]

I have yet to encounter a bullet mold that threw a bullet that weights exactly what the specs call for. I really don't worry about it.

In the main, lead is the real heavy stuff in an alloy with tin being lighter and antimony still lighter yet.

[pdawg_shooter]

My Lee 230gr RNFPTL also drop at 240. No problem, just adjust your loads for the extra weight. I am a believer in heavy for caliber bullets anyway so it suits me fine.

[ga_red_rider]

That makes perfect sense to me. Where would I acquire tin to mix with the lead that I have and what is antimony?? Pardon me I'm the newbie boolit caster and have many questions but I do appreciate all your help here.

RS

[runfiverun]

you may not need either one.
if you are getting good fill out right now i wouldn't worry too much about what you have.
i'd start trying a load.
and figuring out what diameter your gun likes.
for most acp's soft lead does just fine,as long as you aren't squishing them during loading.

[cast14U]

ga_red_rider, I use the very same Lee pot you are using. One thing to keep in mind is the dial numbers do not correlate to temperature. I also believe not all pots heat to same temp on the same settings however, using a thermometer I find with my pot it reaches my desired casting temp set between 3 - 4 which is about 800 degrees. It is also alloy dependent!! You will have to mess around with temperatures to find what your mould cast best at. 775 to 825 degrees should do it. Don't worry too much about frosted boolits either just make sure your alloy is fluxed good. Frosted boolits shoot pretty much the same as non-frosted, they just don't look as pretty. Keep an eye on the level of alloy in the pot while casting as well. The lower it gets, the temperature will rise. When adding more alloy to bring the level back up you also need to wait to get it back to your casting temp. If you do not have a thermometer, you should get one. It will save you a lot of trial and error in the long run.

Water quenching is the easiest way to harden your alloy if you need to. You can add tin to help with hardness. Hardware stores sell plumbers solder which is 95 % tin and will help lighten up the alloy weight a bit as well. If I have a mould that drops heavier than it should whether it be alloy related or the way my mould cast, I just try to match my load charge to the weight of my boolit and not the moulds listed suggested min-max charge for a particular powder.

Just some things I do and have been successful with. It's still fun learning new things though!

Bill

[Blacksmith]

ga red rider
You can get most specialty metals from RotoMetals one of our sponsors. There is a link at the top of the page just click their logo.

By the way welcome.
Blacksmith

[RobS]

The bullet weight is about right for a Lee 45 acp mold assuming you are using WW or an equivalent alloy. All my Lee 230 grainers weighed in at 240 grains and their 200 grain round nose flat point weight in at around 210 grains. The weight will be fine and accuracy will be good if your bullet fit is good.

The Lee pot will run hot fast at the upper settings and it is variable from pot to pot and day to day as the thermostat is in the housing of the unit and not at the pot. When the US had a cold spell here about 3 weeks ago I had the pot at it's lowest setting out in my 7 degree garage and couldn't keep the temperature under 800 degrees unless I put in a cold ingot every so often. My best advice is to have a casting thermometer so you know where your alloy temp is.

You will enjoy casting and I just set my dad up with his first press, pot, and molds and he is really enjoying himself. I did have him dig out an old hot plate that Mom was not using and had him use it to preheat his molds while the pot warmed up, set him up with a bottle of Bullshop Bullplate sprue lube, and gave him the advice to purchase a casting thermometer to ease him into the process. These three items really do help the process of casting and makes it so there is less fuss and no guessing to alloy temp.

Enjoy the new voyage and if you have issues everyone here is more than happy to help you with any problems or question you may have along the way.

Rob

[1Shirt]

Like Charger, I only have one or two molds that throw blts to the weight they are supposed to be, and then only with the right alloy. My contention is that molds are female and that each are different based on cherry wear, temps when casting, alloys used and a whole whoop of other variables. Good luck!
1Shirt!:coffeecom

[Wayne Smith]

Since you are new and haven't read the Classics and Stickies I will tell you that you will soon be trolling for wheel weights for making more boolits. Do yourself a favor and DO NOT melt them in your Lee pot.

Only put clean, multiply fluxed lead in that pot and you will keep it from dripping to a very large extent.

[fredj338]

The temp you cast at only affects the size not the wieght. The alloy you cast affects the weight. Most mold manuf regulate their wieghts w/ a spesific alloy in mind. For most that is Lyman #2 or hardball. More lead means higher wt. & more tin, lighter finished wt. You can add tin from pure bar stock or solder, some guys like to fool around w/ pewter, but I find it easier to shop online for deals on solder or pure bar tin. You need very little to affect bullet wt.

[ga_red_rider]

Its true I haven't read the stickies or older posts, I'll be into them soon. I grabbed my Vernier and measured boolit diameters and found most to be approx .450 to .452 The bulk of the ones I measured are .451 measured diagonally across the mold mating line. On most this line is barely visible. I got mostly bright shiny bullets from my first casting session. Some appeared that the bullet began to cool before the mold was full but not many. I went with the tumble lube design to start but plan on getting another mold,sizer and lube. Any suggestion on what to use on the mold for lubrication? I don't have any actual bullet lube since i haven't done any "sizing" at this point. I read a little never sieze could work? I'm not sure what I can use on this aluminum mold that won't become a problem. First time I didn't find the directions till after 100 were already cast. the molds didnt give me any real trouble but I felt they were getting pretty hot.

[ga_red_rider]

Sounds like sounds advise. I have located some very small tin ingot. I will attempt to adjust weight with it and see what I get. I've also located a deal on a casting thermometer since I'm in it for the long haul.

[runfiverun]

pictures are an immense help.
you need more heat there.
you can use anti-sieze on your mold contact points and on the top to reduce galling.
bullshops bullplate lube is probably superior for both applications.
but you definately need more heat in your mold.

[ga_red_rider]

Allright I'll see to it that my molds are hotter when I cast more in a few days

[RobS]

yepper, alloy/mold is too cool. Either pickup the casting pace you are currently at or adjust the alloy temp to a hotter setting. Another possibility is to pick up the casting pace and cast with a higher temperature. If you do not have a thermometer you may want to invest in one as it gives a caster a no guess method to casting.

[243winxb]

[smilie=w: More Heat. When the bullet is on the heavy side, its OK. Just adjust your maximum powder charge a little lower.
I didnt get a change to measure diameter last night Measure a few bullets as soon as they are cool. Each pot of alloy can be different if alloy is unknow. This way you dont cast 100's of bullets that are UnderSized. Add linotype to make larger and harder bullets. From Rotometals -
Basic Rules for Harding Lead-

For every 1% additional tin, Brinell hardness increases 0.3.
For every 1% additional antimony, Brinell hardness increases 0.9.
For a simple equation,
Brinell = 8.60 + ( 0.29 * Tin ) + ( 0.92 * Antimony ) :smile:

[PBKing]

Those look like good fodder for your next cast. More heat.
When I first started I would let my pot run out when I cast. Later I found it better to fill it before I shut it down. Easier to start up next time.
Boy, a picture is helpful Great Job

[ga_red_rider]

Actually the lead i used was in ingot form. Missouri lead? I think it is pure. I got 130lb's of wheel weights and am currently casting usable ingots they cools to a frosted gray color and appears harder than the ingots I have. I'll cast a few bullets and see what I
get.

[ga_red_rider]

Well I've been casting now for 10 months and smelted many pots of Wheel weights into shiny ingots to make more boolits. I've run 38spl and 45acp straight from the mold after size and lube with great results. Also water dropped and loaded some too all worked well. Added some Linotype lead to the pot for a little harder bullet and a very nice shine to the finished product.
Next purchase is a Shooting Chrony to know boolit velocity to fine tune my loads
Only regret I have about all this is not doing it 10 years ago! You've all been very helpful and informative and I've made few friends here as well. Thank you all and I'll see you in chat!

[ga_red_rider]

Over the last year or so i have completely satisfied with the many bullets I've cast. I have used your advise and thank you all for it too. Only a fella who casts truly makes him own ammo and I have joined that group with good results. Thanks All!!

[MtGun44]

If you had straight lead, you need to add about 50% wwt alloy to that to improve casting
and make them stand up to inserting into the case and feeding without excessive
distortion. You can (and I have) use near pure Pb, but 50-50 is a better choice for getting
good fill out. And pure needs to be cast a good bit hotter than wwt alloy.

As to why to wait a few days - lead alloys, like aluminum alloys will age harden over time,
totally unlike iron alloys which harden instantly when quenched. Pb alloys with antimony will
harden with age, more if quenched quickly, but just after quenching they are not hard, the
crystal structure takes time to change - precipitation hardening.

If you are going to get serious about this game, a real micrometer that is marked to .0001"
will be necessary. Check out Enco Tools, look at Fowler mics, they often have one for well
under $35. Dial calipers are really only accurate to +/-.001 or .002", not good enough for
real serious boolit fitting work.

Bill