In the Market for a Mold

[blaster]

I am looking around for a mold for my muzzleloader.

I shoot a 50 cal. CVA Optima with a 1:28 twist using 3 777 pellets.

I'm leaning toward Lee's molds due to cost. I have been shooting 295gr Powerbelts with good result, but they are running about $1.25ea these days and, even though I only put about 50-75rds a year though my muzzy, I've got a decent stack of unused soft lead in my garage that’s free.

I will use these primarily for Deer hunting and associated practice. I’d say my average shot is 50yd. I’d like to stick with pellets just for conveniences sake, so I’ll probably be using either a 100 or 150 gr. charge.

I'm debating between the two weights of R.E.A.L. bullets right now, but I could be swayed.

Any experience or advice you can offer would be appreciated.

[ktw]

The fast twist rate indicates that a longer, heavier conical would be more appropriate than a shorter one.

If you don't mind using plastic sabots, many of the 44 or 45 caliber pistol bullets should work.

-ktw

[blaster]

I'd prefer to stick with full bore designs, but you bring up another question. Will a pure lead slug like a R.E.A.L or a Minie hold up over 100+ grains of powder?

Does anyone have any experience with the Lyman maxi ball that would justify the 3 fold price increase (including handles) over Lee?

[docone31]

My R.E.A.L. does.
It is more accurate at 70gns, but I have done 120gns without issue.

[ihunts2much]

I had poor results with the 320 gr REAL in my 1in 32 twist cva. If you can find a TC 350 grain Maxi-Hunter mold that will probably work very well.

[Odinbreaker]

I cast a 300 gr .430 bullet from a lee mould works great in my 50 cal encore I use green sabots. I also have a 240 gr .430

[10 ga]

http://www.brp.castpics.net/

It's in the Vendor/sponsor list. Check the 50 cal ML REAL. Got one and it shoots good. 10 ga

[frontier gander]

check this post out,
http://thepowerbeltforum.powerguild.net/misc-muzzleloader-bullets-f25/lee-minie-bullets-t786.htm

[skullmount]

I am looking around for a mold for my muzzleloader.

I shoot a 50 cal. CVA Optima with a 1:28 twist using 3 777 pellets.

Any experience or advice you can offer would be appreciated.In reading your post $$ seems to be an issue here :wink:

Lee makes a 405 grain that quite a few people use with good results. Most are with powder charges from 70 to 85 grains. Find someone here with that mold, and get a few test boolits to try first.

Have you used loose powder in the past?

Your post brings up another thought that I have talked about with others B4..........
As with most guys here, the money is always an issue, it is with me to, but...... I kinda scratch my head and wonder how guys that like to shoot and do the right thing in the off season and actually shoot the guns they hunt with can afford to shoot pellets:shock:

[blaster]

2 votes for the R.e.a.l. and 2 against.
2 votes for Sabot and pistol bullet. (I already cast for a 44mag)
1 vote for maxi hunter.
1 compelling article in favor of the modern minie.
1 in favor of a Lee 405gr (I didn't see listed)?

I shot loose powder for years in a side lock, something about having to measure it out at the range annoyed me. I still have the measure speed loaders etc. somewhere; maybe I should try it again.

Those that have had good/bad results with the R.E.A.L. which weight are/were you using?

I would consider minute of whitetail at 100yd good results.

Keep the testimonials on other designs coming.

[docone31]

Issues with measuring the powder in the field,
Make paper cartridges! Get a tube, dowel, rod, the diameter of the bore, either plus or minus, roll a tube, measure the powder at home. Seal one end, fill the tube, seal the other end. Make one end easy to open. Pour the powder, put the cartridge in the bore after the powder, load the R.E.A.L., and have a ball.
I went with the heavier one.
You can even nitrate the paper, but I never bothered.

[frontier gander]

reals didnt shoot for chit in my cva's. That 360gr Lee Minie i posted though, does excellent in my cva accura.

[skullmount]

1 in favor of a Lee 405gr (I didn't see listed)?



:oops:
Sorry blaster, I was going from memory...the 405 grain that I was thinking of is a .457 that some of the White muzzleloader guys size down for the .451 :oops:

[357maximum]

BaBore (BRP products) makes 2 different weights of 45's for a saboted 50. He has a page down in the Vendor sponsor area....and you would be keeping some much needed $$$ in Michigan. They have both been designed and tested for long range stability with MMp sabots....just in case you wanna stretch the legs on that CVA...they can do it........not the same $$ as a lee, but ya gets what you pays for. I am sure he would even cut you a 4cavity with 2 of each weight.......just another option for you to ponder on. With the barrel you describe sabots may be the only way to keep you happy in the group department.........then again....every gun is a law unto itself.

[Blammer]

maybe getting some samples of the REAL boolits may be the way to go. 10 would probably tell you if 100gr would work in the rifle or not.

[calinb]

I cast the heavier R.E.A.L. bullets for both my CVA Optima .45 cal and Wolf .50 cal. They are not terribly accurate in either rifle. I'm wondering if the R.E.A.L. bullets shoot better in something slower than my 1:28 twist barrels. I've read a few reports of better performance from 1:48 barrels.

I plan to try some longer and heavier conicals next, including the Layman 457122 Gould 45-70-330 bullet. It casts something like the low 340s in pure lead. I rammed one down the bore of my .45 cal Optima and I don't think they will even need to be resized for my barrel. I should know more after shooting them this weekend.

-Cal

[blaster]

I guess I'm just going to have to start buying molds and see what works.

From what everyone has said there isn't a clear winner or loser.

Thanks for everyones input.

[docone31]

One thing you can do is go to web sites like Midway, and look for feedback on what you are interested in.
A lot of us are old school, the faster twists are in the feedback. There you can find what works from other folks, and what they are useing.
You can easily find the ones that do not work there also.

[calinb]

One thing you can do is go to web sites like Midway, and look for feedback on what you are interested in.
A lot of us are old school, the faster twists are in the feedback. There you can find what works from other folks, and what they are useing.
You can easily find the ones that do not work there also.

Yes--and, if it's not raining too hard, I hope to have some reports for Blaster after the weekend. I'll be focused on my .45 cal Optima but might test a few loads in my .50 cal Wolf too. I'm mostly interested in Oregon ML season legal bullets (lead w/ max length = 2 X width). I'll be testing the Lyman 457122 Gould and the Lee "oversize" .454-298M Minie Ball with loose powder and percussion caps. (The ignition components I use in my CVA rifles for Oregon hunting are self-fabricated for Oregon hunt-legal caps instead of 209 primers.)

I should have 100 yard group size reports and Chrony data.

-Cal

[475BH]

Why don't you use the ol PRB, nothing can be cheaper and a deer wouldn't get away from you @ 50 yards.
BTW I use FFFg Goex @ 90 grs. in my 1-24 twist .54 cal. w/ a PRB, I use a 45-70 case for a measure. Shoots real good at 100 yds., 3"+/- with good light.

[calinb]

Why don't you use the ol PRB, nothing can be cheaper and a deer wouldn't get away from you @ 50 yards.
BTW I use FFFg Goex @ 90 grs. in my 1-24 twist .54 cal. w/ a PRB, I use a 45-70 case for a measure. Shoots real good at 100 yds., 3"+/- with good light.

I want to get a flintlock .54 for round ball loads, but it would not be my first choice for my favorite whitetail ML hunt. It's in unusually open country for whitetail with not a tree around. Looks more like Pronghorn terrain, really. I shot my 4x4 buck last season at 111 yards (after gaining the last 30 yards crawling on my belly for 30 minutes). Actually, I'd like to increase my range, but Oregon rules are probably going to keep me close to 100 yards, maximum.

[idahoron]

Blaster, have you thought about paper patched bullets?
I am using a paper patched 500 S&W bullet made from the Lee C-501-440-RF.
If you are wanting a real heavy weight that is the one. It comes out of the mould at 460 gr with pure lead.
The Lee REAL bullet was a disappointment in my guns. While the 50 yard groups were ok. They were all over the place at 100 yards. I was using between 80 and 110 gr of powder with a over powder wad. at 100 yards I was lucky to get 6" groups. The 500 S&W bullets get 1.5" groups. Ron

[calinb]

Blaster, have you thought about paper patched bullets?
I am using a paper patched 500 S&W bullet made from the Lee C-501-440-RF.
If you are wanting a real heavy weight that is the one. It comes out of the mould at 460 gr with pure lead.
The Lee REAL bullet was a disappointment in my guns. While the 50 yard groups were ok. They were all over the place at 100 yards. I was using between 80 and 110 gr of powder with a over powder wad. at 100 yards I was lucky to get 6" groups. The 500 S&W bullets get 1.5" groups. Ron

Thanks, idahoron! 6" at 100 is about the best I can get from the REAL bullets in my .45 and .50 1:28 too. I have the Lee C-501-440-RF 500 S&W mold and I've been thinking about paper patching bullets for my muzzle loaders. Any tips for paper patching the 500 S&W? I've not slugged my bore and I only have the Lee .501 lube/sizer. I don't know if the bullet will fit after patching. Ever run a bullet through a sizer AFTER patching?

[idahoron]

That is just how i do it. I use paper from the paper mill store it is 25% cotton. I make two wraps and that adds about .004 to the diameter of the bullet. Then I send them through the Lee sizer die ( DRY ) no lube on the paper. If you add lube the lube will cause the paper to fail. Make sure the sizer die is clean before you size with the paper on. If there is still lube in the die it might tear the paper. I have been using this bullet for a couple of years. Search for my posts on them they work weell on game. I also only use 80 gr of Pyrodex P and an over powder wad. If I pushed them harder I didn't get as good of accuracy. That load is 1310 FPS at the muzzle with 1753 FPE. At 200 yards the load is 1061 FPS and 1151 FPE. It doesn't drop below 1000 FPE until after that bullet passes 275 yards. It is a powerful load. Ron

[calinb]

That is just how i do it. ...

Thanks a ton, Ron! That's exactly the information I need. I'll search for your other posts too.

-Cal

[idahoron]

If you have any questions feel free to ask. Ron

[calinb]

Sorry, Blaster. I can't really report much in the way of performance of my new bullets. It was raining on Saturday and I ran out of daylight before I got much accomplished. About all I can say is my Lyman 457122 45-70 bullet loads without resizing in my CVA Optima .45. I never even got around to testing anything for my .50.

I read Ron's posts and I ordered some Esleeck Onion paper for paper patching so I have more to test than I have free time these days.

[blaster]

Keep me Posted Calinb.

[Greg in Malad]

Blaster,
The last 4 deer and 1 elk that I shot with a muzzleloader fell to one shot each, the load was 70 gr pyrodex, 400 gr conical in a .40 cal White Systems rifle. I'm wondering why whitetails need 150 gr charge at 50 yds. The Lee REAL shoots good in my T/C .54 Hawken, and in my .45 Gonic.