310 Lyman dies.

[Four Fingers of Death]

I saw an ad in a local gun mag, 38/357 310 lyman dies, $25.
I was on the phone like a cat on a mouse. I really like these 310 pliers reloaders. I have two small pliers and 30/30 dies and a large set with 45/70 dies that I got off this site. The die set arrived today, they look new and are in a
lyman box. There are two M dies, a 357 and a 358! Sizing,priming and seating die and what looks like a powder through die. I'm as pleased as punch! Can't wait to use these. Trouble is I have about 600 38 cases here (have a few thousand more at home) and I finished reloading them last night. I suppose I'll just have to load up some 357s! mick.

[windwalker]

mick i to like the lyman 310 dies and had pliers but they are super expencive here in west ozy the dies are around $100 ozy the hand pliers about the same. so i got the lee hand press which is very compact good to take when i go to the out back hunting along with my bear powder scales and lee auto prime and lee dies it dont take up much room in the motor.
bernie:-D

[Swagerman]

Call me kanuts, but I like the 5/8X30 tpi 310 dies very much, especially the .44 special and .45 Colt seating die.

I use 7/8X14 carbo sizing die, either RCBS or Lee.

But the sizing die is always the Lyman old 310 die that does a beautiful job of just the right amount of roll crimp every time.

Oh, and I use the Lyman old expander case mouth belling die as well in 310 size.

These are mainly set up in my Lyman All American turret press that is used for working up loads. The antique press also sports a Herter's No. 40 powder measure that dispenses a very accurate powder drop. This old time PM has an extra long powder drop that sets the apparatus above most of the other dies on the turret wheel.

Guess I just like the old stuff.

Jim



(The only recent picture of my Lyman AA)

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e321/44and45/P8140023CHprimercatcherrtp.jpg

[scrapcan]

I too have become fond of the 310/tru-line lyman dies. They are truely nice equipment. I use the expander dies in quite a few applications also. I aquired a partial 310 tool and die set and was able to complete the set witht eh help of Floodgate (Doug Elliot) and Randy Davis of the 310 shop.

Randy has a large selection of 310 and tru-line stuff. His webpage is

http://www.cnyauctions.com/the310shop.htm

Both are great guys by the way.

Swagerman,

You have a couple of nice presses in the picture. Your Lyman is in great shape. And is that a C-H 444 in the foreground? I like your primer catch/drop that you fabbed. I was trying to come up with a method to do exactly the same thing last night on a C-H magnum single stage press that I just aquired. Thanks for sharing the picture, even though it was not what you originally put the picture up for.

Jeremy

[Four Fingers of Death]

Wow, great link! I have found a new way of spending money! Mick.

[Swagerman]

Manleyjt, send me an email or PM and I'll send you extra one of those gizmoes I have. But its for that type of press...the C-H 444.

Jim

[Swagerman]

Mick, they make a pretty good 5/8X30 tpi turret press in Australia don't cha know...of course you do. It is about the same size as the old Lyman Tru-line Jr. It is probably a better made press that is much stronger. I use to have a link on it but lost it few years back.

Jim

[scrapcan]

Swagerman,

I will try to get a pic or two of the magnum press and then you will be able to see if the primer catcher would work on it. If you look at your press and think of a press withonly the back station, that is what I have. If the catcher will fit at that spot I am interested and would gladly trade, beg, barrow, buy.

Jeremy

[Antietamgw]

I also like the 310 dies and have used them to load at the range for .33-40 with a sizing die I bored to neck size for my odd chambering. My first press for handguns was a TruLine Jr that I still have though I don't often use it. In an effort to multi task I often use a 310 die and tong tool to decap or expand necks on .38 Spl. cases while watching the tube with my wife, a gallon bucket to each side. Clink. "Yes dear, I learned a new way to paint watching those two gay designers trash that nice old straight house" Clink.

[Four Fingers of Death]

Mick, they make a pretty good 5/8X30 tpi turret press in Australia don't cha know...of course you do. It is about the same size as the old Lyman Tru-line Jr. It is probably a better made press that is much stronger. I use to have a link on it but lost it few years back.

Jim

Yeah, it's called a Super Simplex press. They still make them, but you wouldn't bother. They come up second hand now for not much money. I have two I think (one at least) and heaps of dies for them. I'm sure the threads are a bit different. :-(
Mick.

[grumpy one]

The Simplex does use different threads from the Truline Jr. The Simplex used a very old standard threadform called British Standard Extra Fine. This means you have to use Simplex dies - nothing else will fit the press. My limited experience suggests that the Simplex dies - or at least the old Simplex ones that I've used - are not especially accurately made by modern rifle standards, though they seem OK for straight-sided pistol cases. Hence the Simplex press has a place on my reloading bench for some jobs like bullet seating and odd operations with home-made or modified dies, but I wouldn't consider using it for sizing rifle cases for example.

Geoff

[Swagerman]

Well I'll be jiggered, a different size thread than the old Lyman 5/8X30 tpi???

Solution would be to buy a tap & Die for the 5/8X30 tpi thread and re-tap the Simples press holes. Then you can use the Lyman 310 dies and tell simplex to get stuffed. :mrgreen:

Though these taps and dies are not cheap, think I paid around $40 to get one by mail order...though I only have the die in that size.

Guess it would be cheaper to just buy a Lyman Tru-line Jr. press.

If I remember right, the Simples folks make a copy of the RCBS Rockchucker with the 7/8X14 tpi dies.

Jim :coffee:

[Swagerman]

Manleyjt, PM sent as well as email to manley...

Couldn't find the dang blasted primer catcher, looked high and low.

But have taken mine apart and made patterns of the two pieces, will mail off today.

Any questions just ask by email.

Jim


http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e321/44and45/PA030025C-Hprimercatcher750Xrtp.jpg

[brayhaven]

I found a bunch of 310 dies in 30-06, 243, 6mm etc. I would like to get a set of 30-30 dies for it. If anyone needs what I have, let me know.
BTW, is there a die reference chart online anywhere? Some of these might work on the 30-30??
Greg

[grumpy one]

Well I'll be jiggered, a different size thread than the old Lyman 5/8X30 tpi???

Solution would be to buy a tap & Die for the 5/8X30 tpi thread and re-tap the Simples press holes. Then you can use the Lyman 310 dies and tell simplex to get stuffed. :mrgreen:

Though these taps and dies are not cheap, think I paid around $40 to get one by mail order...though I only have the die in that size.

Guess it would be cheaper to just buy a Lyman Tru-line Jr. press.

If I remember right, the Simples folks make a copy of the RCBS Rockchucker with the 7/8X14 tpi dies.

Jim :coffee:

If you could buy a 5/8X30 tap, it would be fairly easy to rework a Simplex press to use Lyman 310 dies, but I'm not aware of there being such a tap available. The Simplex press is a very nice one to use - I think it's probably both smoother and more durable than the Truline Jr, though I haven't actually used the latter. When I bought my Simplex it came with a three-hole turret but had six detent positions so you could retrofit a six-hole turret. I bought another three-hole turret from a dealer's bargain barrel and added the missing holes to both of them, simply by setting up the complete press under a radial drill, moving it around to center on one of the tapped holes, then rotated the turret using the press's own position detents to dimple the missing three hole locations with a center-drill. Then I fitted the other turret and repeated the operation. After that I just clamped the first turret down under the drill, aligned on the first center-drill mark, drilled the tapping size, switched the drill bit for a tailstock center, and used the tailstock centre to align the tap over the hole I'd just drilled. Repeated that five more times and I had two accurately made six hole turrets.

The same method could very easily be used to convert Simplex three-hole turrets into six-hole turrets, with the in-between three holes tapped to the Lyman thread instead of the Simplex thread. However to do that you'd have to be able to get a tap for the Lyman thread. Incidentally the special Lyman caseholders from the Truline Jr. fit the Simplex press if you make a new dimple for the retaining screw, which is in a different place. However the Simplex caseholders are better in my opinion.

Personally I've pretty much lost interest in 5/8 dies for rifle applications, because they can't full-length resize a reasonable-sized cartridge case inside the dies, and I like to use partial full-length sizing so I can ensure the case neck ends up concentric with the rest of the case. I use 7/8X14 dies for just about any task - if it's a brute force task I use a Rock Chucker press, and if it's a touchy-feely task I use a Partner press. Even then I prefer to push primers with a Lee Autoprime. However that's just personal preference.

[Swagerman]

Hey, its sure nice to talk to all you blokes from Roo land.

Grumpy one, if you have a simplex link appreciate it for my files.

The 5/8X30 tpi taps and dies are available here in the states, but in most cases they are oriental made, China or Tiiwan. I paid a little over $40 US just for the blinking die. But there was a tap for about the same price if I remember right.

That was about 3 years ago I was messing with making threads for an old Lyman rotor powder measure. It was really not very accurate powder drops so gave up on it. I think it was called the Accumeasure, had all the rotors too. still have some charts on the rotor sizes and their supposed powder drops...what a joke they were.

Your Simples turret taps sound really keen and well done.

You are so right on the 310 dies are really only well suited for straight line hand gun cases, not very good for rifle because of the limited sizing they have.

Jim

[grumpy one]

Jim, I can't find a website for Simplex themselves but here is one dedicated to their products: http://irands.com.au/shoot/misc/press.html

When I looked at that site a couple of minutes ago the pictures were not all loading, but I hope that is a temporary problem.

I notice that in another thread someone is looking for a die to cut the 5/8X30 thread so he can make his own 310 dies, and can't find one. Perhaps you could fill him in.

While I've been pretty unkind about the Simplex rifle dies, I did find their 38 and 357 dies, in their little press, a smooth and pleasant way to load way back when I used to shoot pistol. I only shot the precision 25 meter course so I didn't use all that many cartidges - 25 or 30 was a Saturday practice session - and I'd been using a 310 tong tool until I got the Simplex. The tong tool loaded a nice round, but resizing with that thing was hard work. On the other hand it was way better for installing primers than the Simplex press.

Pistol shooting in Australia is pretty much for serious enthusiasts only, particularly if you live in the city as I do. You have to be an active club member to get a permit, and membership is pretty expensive. Of course you also have to participate in club working bees and all that kind of thing, so it only seems to work out if you are going to make it your main hobby. I guess that is the whole intention of the regulations, since it has the effect of keeping the number of pistol shooters very small. I think about getting back into it occasionally, but I don't even come close to going ahead with it.

Geoff

[Four Fingers of Death]

I was thinking about using a three hole turret and drilling between the holes, but it is not really worth it. I enjoy the 310 tools, but have all of these calibres in 7/8" and most in Super Simplex dies as well as a heap a of Lee Loaders (my first experience with reloading). I might start using the Super Simplex for my 38 target loads, repriming with the tong tool (which has an excellent, albiet, one at a time priming tool). I might also use the 310 for indoor range load development.

I wll also have to reload my 30/30 and 45/70 in my tent out in the bush and send pics to Junior. Mick.

[floodgate]

I found a bunch of 310 dies in 30-06, 243, 6mm etc. I would like to get a set of 30-30 dies for it. If anyone needs what I have, let me know.
BTW, is there a die reference chart online anywhere? Some of these might work on the 30-30??
Greg

Greg:

Contact Randy Davis at "The 310 Shop" <The310Shop@aol.com>, he can provide the chart and dies you need, and can advise you on what you can do with the various die combinations. Tell him "floodgate" sent you.

Doug Elliott

[floodgate]

Grumpy (or Mick):

Can one of you post a couple of photos of a Simplex press? It soundssimilar - but not identical - to the three-station "Red Head" turret press made here from the late '30's into the early '70's, using the Lyman 5/8" x 30 tpi dies and later, more sophisticated variations thereof. Invented by Earl Naramore while he worked at Lyman, but they did not take it up. It was later made and marketed by gunsmith Chas. C. Johnson. It probably stimulated Lyman (belatedly) to introduce their Tru-Line Jr. press in 1949. I don't have one to photograph for comparison; does anyone else here have an example of the Red Head to show us?

floodgate

[floodgate]

Here is a scan of the cover from an early Red Head brochure; C. C. Johnson's name and address are pasted over Naramore's, so this must date from the early '40's.

floodgate

[Swagerman]

floodgate, that is indeed interesting history on the redhead press.

Wish the photo was better on the hinge linkage set up, like to see if it differs much from the Tru-line Jr.

Jim

[floodgate]

floodgate, that is indeed interesting history on the redhead press.

Wish the photo was better on the hinge linkage set up, like to see if it differs much from the Tru-line Jr.

Jim

Jim:

Mechanically, it is the same as the early non-compound Tru-Line Jr. linkage, but Johnson was able to get F/L sizing out of it for the straight-case pistol rounds and the shortest bottleneck rifle ones, which Lyman didn't try until the later, compound-linkage ones. In a 1954 brochure he says these were available for .22 Hornet, R-2 Lovell, .38 Spl, .44 Spl. and .32 S&W Short and Long. A few years later, he no doubt added the .222 / .223 family, as Lyman did for the T-L Jr. (I just found - after much searching and asking - a battered but usable 2-die Lyman set with F/L die in .222 Remington, for the later, compound Tru-Line Jr.) The dies (I have seen several) made by Johnson are a world ahead of the Lyman ones in design and quality, but they were essentially custom jobs. The presses (based on a sample of three in the hands of friends, with serial numbers and dated) were made in limited numbers: 150 to 200 units per year. Below is a shot from the 1954 brochure, which may help you see the linkage layout.

floodgate

[Four Fingers of Death]

Grumpy (or Mick):

Can one of you post a couple of photos of a Simplex press? It soundssimilar - but not identical - to the three-station "Red Head" turret press made here from the late '30's into the early '70's, using the Lyman 5/8" x 30 tpi dies and later, more sophisticated variations thereof. Invented by Earl Naramore while he worked at Lyman, but they did not take it up. It was later made and marketed by gunsmith Chas. C. Johnson. It probably stimulated Lyman (belatedly) to introduce their Tru-Line Jr. press in 1949. I don't have one to photograph for comparison; does anyone else here have an example of the Red Head to show us?

floodgate

I am at home at the moment, I have dug out the Simplex and the dies I have, I will take it back to my temporary work abode and set it up and get some pics going. Nice little press.

[grumpy one]

1601

1602

Here are a couple of pictures of my old 5/8" Simplex taken last night. I've made the definition very low to keep the file size down. This is my first attempt to upload anything on this forum. If this works, and if anyone wants more detailed pics, I have them on hand. I'd best warn people that I've modified one of the two sizing dies you can see - I moved the expander plug up high on the decapping rod. The other one, with the low-mounted expander plug, is the original design

Geoff

[Swagerman]

Grumpy one, that little Simplex press looks pretty cool with its six die station turret. Thanks for the pictures.

My Lyman Tru-line Jr. only has four.

Anyone know what the Simplex 5/8 die thread is in tpi. I know it's supposed to be smaller than the Lyman 30 tpi.

Do you have any trouble with that small a thread tpi getting scratched or deformed.

Jim

[floodgate]

Grumpy one:

Thanks for the fine photos; looks like that is a nice little press. The operating linkage is very similar to the Red-Head's. Looks like primer seating depth is controlled by the stop screw on the near (RH) side of the press, and alignment of the sliding shell block is maintained by the fixed guide rod at the back; what is the "lump" below the shell-block at the rear, a rubber cushion? The Red-Head does not rely on indexing dimples to locate the turet's rotational position; if you look at my shots above, from the brochure, you can see a pointed peg mounted on the shell-block between the shellholder and the main column; this slides into a closely-bored hole in the turret and fine-aligns it. It would seem to have made sense to have extended the back post on the Simplex all the way to the turret, to prevent it cocking under sizing pressure - but that would have interfered with the die seats, unless the turret were made larger in diameter, and the stop peg set further out, as on the bigger Lyman All-American Turret model with its standard-sized 7/8" x 14 tpi dies. As you can see, I find these various mechanical systems endlessly fascinating. Thanks for sharing the Simplex info.

floodgate

[grumpy one]

Unless I've missed count it's 26 tpi. Didn't have a thread gauge for that, and had to count.

The sizing dies are file-hard, and just about indestructible. The seating dies aren't all that hard, and the lock rings are soft. I haven't had any problems with thread damage on any of them, but 26 tpi is easier to manage than the 30 tpi of the Lyman 5/8 series in any case. The turrets are just grey cast iron, so of course you could damage the threads in them if you were heavy-handed enough, but you can damage any thread if you try hard I guess.

[grumpy one]

Floodgate,
Here is some more detail. The adjustable stop and the rubber buffer are both part of the primer seating system. You can use the stop for positive seating depth, or use feel if you prefer. The rubber buffer holds the primer away from the primer pocket until you deliberately push down on the operating lever. It is made of some soft synthetic rubber, and squashes down to less than a third of its free height each time you seat a primer.

1603

You can see the effective diameter of the turret rotational detent system from this picture of a turret when it is removed from the press. The detent system uses a spring and ball, passing through the vertical hole that is on something less than one inch radius.

1604

As you say, it is not a very big radius. Simplex brag about using a larger radius, as well as a support post opposite the loading position, in their advertisements for their bigger (7/8X14) presses. I think it is a matter of considering what job you are going to use the press for, and how much value you place on having a compact setup. As I've said before, I seldom use this press now, because I only shoot rifle - but if I were to take up pistol shooting again at fairly low volume, I'd go right back to using this press with the 357 tools you can see on the picture of the turret.

Geoff

[floodgate]

Geoff:

Thanks for the info and the excellent photos. I'll get back to yu when I have had time to chew them over.

Doug

[floodgate]

Unless I've missed count it's 26 tpi. Didn't have a thread gauge for that, and had to count.

The sizing dies are file-hard, and just about indestructible. The seating dies aren't all that hard, and the lock rings are soft. I haven't had any problems with thread damage on any of them, but 26 tpi is easier to manage than the 30 tpi of the Lyman 5/8 series in any case. The turrets are just grey cast iron, so of course you could damage the threads in them if you were heavy-handed enough, but you can damage any thread if you try hard I guess.

Grumpy one (and others):

I checked in my model engineering catalogs and found in an older one from Coles' Power Models that the 26 tpi thread is standard for brass fittings; they listed them from 1/4" through 5/8" diameters, and the BSB (British Standard Brass) 5/8" x 26 tpi takes a 37/64" tap drill. I suspect any modelmaker's source that imports Stuart-Turner casting sets could supply taps and dies in this size. Probably easier to find than that nutball 30 pitch Lyman used for their dies and for a few other items as well (their little Krag / '03 sight adjuster used a 1/4" x 30 thread). I was
able to find a 5/3" x 30 tap in the MSC catalog, but no matching die, which is what I needed to clean up some "bubba'd" dies.

floodgate

[grumpy one]

Thanks Doug, that was a surprise. The guy who loaned me a tap for reworking Simplex turrets many years ago assured me that the thread was British Standard Extra Fine, and I thought I'd traced that thread since. Might be a coincidence that both threads are the same pitch in 5/8 diameter.

In case anybody cares, the idea of the British Standard Brass thread (26 tpi regardless of diameter) was to suit craftsmen using traditional brass lathes, which don't have a toolpost. All tools are hand-held against a rest, like on a wood lathe. To cut a thread on a brass lathe you use a multi-tooth hand-held thread cutting tool and "strike" the thread by (rather skillfully) hauling it to the left as soon as the first tooth starts to cut. You need to have neatly dragged it one 26th of an inch by the time it's rotated one turn. I've watched a craftsman use a brass lathe, and been impressed - they literally make all kinds of things in less than a minute.

[floodgate]

grumpy one:

"In case anybody cares, the idea of the British Standard Brass thread (26 tpi regardless of diameter) was to suit craftsmen using traditional brass lathes, which don't have a toolpost. All tools are hand-held against a rest, like on a wood lathe. To cut a thread on a brass lathe you use a multi-tooth hand-held thread cutting tool and "strike" the thread by (rather skillfully) hauling it to the left as soon as the first tooth starts to cut. You need to have neatly dragged it one 26th of an inch by the time it's rotated one turn. I've watched a craftsman use a brass lathe, and been impressed - they literally make all kinds of things in less than a minute. "

Thanks for the background on the BSB "standard" thread. I've read about working with "gravers", "thread chasers", etc. on old lathes - guess I'll have to have a try at it. I did make up a tool rest for my Smithy that would work for this type of operation.

Did'ja hear that, Buckshot?

Doug

[sav300]

Hello Grump One.Try a web search for "jansa arms"they are the agents for simplex .
Lionel

[TAWILDCATT]

what a coinsidence,I am having 3 heads machined for 7/8 14 die.the original head is going to have one hole in 7/8.I want to put carbide sizer in there.just froze a case in the 45 colt sizing die.
I do 32 acp/32 long in one press.45 colt in another and 9 mm in other [have 4].
look in old gun digest.there is picture of red head.very much like truline.I am working on lee powder measure to drop powder.might have to add another 7/8 hole.
I'll pray for you aussies.in 50 yrs you may toss the basterds out and get freedom.
we are close to your problems with the Dems.Repubs arn't much better.
:coffee: :Fire::coffee: [smilie=1: