"h-108..."

[exile]

In my continuing quest to find a .32 H & R magnum load that will shoot to point of aim in my Ruger SP-101 chambered in .327 Federal (i.e., an actual .32 H & R magnum load, not the .32 Special stuff in the reloading manuals) I ran across some loads recorded on lasc. by a guy named Todd Spotti. He used a powder called H-108 which he states was developed for the .30 carbine. Trouble is he says the powder is one usually only used by ammunition companies.

Has anyone used this powder before? Am I wasting my time looking for it? Can it be purchased in one pound lots? Thanks.

http://www.lasc.us/RangingShotDWLittlestMagnum.htm

My thoughts were to use the Lee 90 grain TL semi-wadcutter bullet with a generous amount of LLA and taking advantage of the extra cartridge length in my cylinder seat the bullets to .327 Federal length in .32 H & R brass. I have never loaded anything not directly recorded in an established loading manual, so if some of you cooler heads want to tell me to back off, I would be happy to hear that as well. :veryconfu

exile

[TCLouis]

Like my very old batch of SLOW WC820, H108 is one for the history books.

I have an old data sheet for H108 from HP White labs as I remember it.

Maybe something to scan and provide to the group

[exile]

That's a shame. Anything that is comparable still out there? Lil gun maybe, just guessing. Thanks,

exile

[sundog]

TCLouis, please make that data sheet available! Thanks,

[felix]

Corky, H108 was purchased by Hodgdon when we were purchasing it as 820. They obviously got a "holt" of a very large lot, enough to catalogue it. We need to compare those 820 lots we have with the 108 you have and publish those results here too. ... felix

[smokemjoe]

I used it in my 32-40 and 25 cal. schuetzen rifles, about like AA#9

[exile]

So, maybe AA # 9 woulld be comparable? I am operating without a net here.

exile

[TCLouis]

sundog

Dang, Now I gotta find it. It will take some digging I am sure, but it is here.

[exile]

Sundog, (and others),

I finally found what I have been looking for for more than a year, actual magnum loads using 115 grain boolits in the .32 H & R MAGNUM. I am off to buy some AA # 9.


http://www.reloadammo.com/32hr-mag.htm

It doesn't seem like a big deal, but it sure has been hard to find. I hope it works. Thanks. AA # 9 was the key to my search, I don't know how I missed this stuff before. Wish me luck, I may need it. :veryconfu

[Dale53]

H110, Win 296, H-108, WC 820, and AA #9 are pretty much the same with different burning rates (most are canister powders with loading data available but H-108 is no longer available and WC - 820 has various burning rates depending on the lot).

I have used 10.0 grs of H110 in the .32 H&R Magnum behind the 120 gr GB RF bullet with good results. In my 6" 16-4 S&W it chronographs at 1100 fps. It is a good load. The same amount of H-110 works well with the Keith 100 gr SWC, also.

FWIW
Dale53

[9.3X62AL]

Exile--

Thanks for posting the M.D. Smith data. Another source for REAL 32 Magnum data is the RCBS Cast Bullet Manual #1. (That's a Manual that could REALLY use an update--1986 data).

H-108 is outside my experience. I have a lot of WC-820 that seems identical in many calibers to AA-9 performance, and I'll be using it and WW-296 with a 100 grain gas check SWC and a 118 grain plain-base flat-nose in 32 Magnum later this year.

[Lloyd Smale]

felix hit it on the head. Its wc820 in a hogdon bottle.

[exile]

I needed to go to Lincoln today to get an estimate on some car repair, so I stopped at Scheels and bought a pound of AA # 9. Here we go, wish me luck, I will be loading a 115 grain RNFP boolit in new Starline .32 H & R magnum cases. I hope to have success. Just on a whim I asked the guy at Scheels if Federal had started producing .327 Federal cases, his reply was "I can't even get the ammo lately." Based on the article Brian Pearce did in the February 2009 issue of Handloader, I will not be using magnum primers for these loads. Thanks.

exile

[dougader]

I am still working on a jug of H108 I got from powder valley in 2004. So far I have only used it in 45 Colt with 255 and 300 grain loads. I think my powder is a bit slower than AA9. Anyway, my H108 chronographs a lot slower than AA9 data.

I plan to use it the 32 mag, thanks to the link posted above.

Check this thread for the data from the Hodgdon sheet:

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=67432&highlight=H108

[7of7]

From Powder Valley Inc.:
Bullet-- Powder-- Max Load -Velocity F/S- Pressure

30 M Carbine
110 gr. RN H116 16.0gr 1962 f/s ****
110 gr. RN H108 13.0gr 1930 f/s 36,900 PSI

7.62 X 39 Russian
123 gr. SP H116 23.1gr 2250 f/s ****

32-40
*202 gr. Pope H108 12.6gr 1368 f/s 19,500 CUP
*204 gr. Miller H108 12.5gr 1353 f/s 19,500 CUP
196 gr Hoch H108 11.0gr 1301 f/s 19,300 CUP
*Bullets breech seated.

.357 Magnum
125 gr JHP H108 17.5gr 1676 f/s 34,400 CUP
140 gr JHP H108 16.0gr 1569 f/s 34,800 CUP
150 gr JHP H108 15.0gr 1478 f/s 33,600 CUP
158 gr JHP H108 14.5gr 1401 f/s 34,200 CUP
180 gr JHP H108 12.0gr 1264 f/s 35,400 CUP

.44 Rem. Magnum
200 gr. JHP H108 24.0gr 1687 f/s 34,000 CUP
225 gr. JSP H108 21.0gr 1586 f/s 37,100 CUP
240 gr. JHP H108 20.0gr 1531 f/s 38,200 CUP
265 gr. JHP H108 18.5gr 1316 f/s 34,400 CUP

.410 Bore--WW AA Cases-- WWAA410 wad-- 1/2 oz. Shot
H108 12.0gr 1190 f/s 10,900 PSI

[maddog2020]

That's a shame. Anything that is comparable still out there? Lil gun maybe, just guessing. Thanks,

exile


the 108 is close to AA9, according to the guru Felix, any aa9 loads are safe using the 108, now he may correct me, but I do believe thats what its close to

[9.3X62AL]

The only caveats I would mention for any of the slower handgun ball powders is to keep them at 90% loading density or better, and to NOT compress them. Within those strictures, AA-9 and WC-820 have given me GREAT performance in the Magnum revos--32, 357, 41, and 44.

[maddog2020]

I just rolled 6 45lc, using 20.3 grains of h116, no pressure signs, primers were not even flat, just barely , the recoil was good, and very accurate. water moccasin poked hi head out , figured I could use him for target. and darned if that load and the ruger 45lc, made a two part critter from him. the 45 250 grain cast did very well

[Lloyd Smale]

For the most part 108 wc820 and aa9 are the same powder. They vary in burning rates batch to batch but load look and smell the same for the most part. Keep in mind tha aa made there buisness repackaging suplus powders in fancy jugs. So if there still not using 820 for there aa9 im sure they have copied the recipe. h116 is basicaly aa1680 or 680 with the same story. the only one you have to be REAL careful with is 820. they had a run of it years ago that was very fast. Closer to hs6 then it was aa9. It was marked wc820F

[Dale53]

Lloyd;
I agree fully with you. However, the burning rates vary all over the place. I have a rather large amount of WC 820 (one of the early "slow" lots) that is within .5 grain (half a grain) of H110. However, many of the later lots are nearly spot on for AA#9 data, and that is several grains faster burning than H110.

I "calibrated" mine with a chronograph, loading the same components, the same day, and chronographed the same day with both powders.

Some do not understand that you must do that with every different caliber and set of components to be safe. However, since my many pounds of WC 820 are from the same lot #, once "calibrated" you don't have to do it again.

FWIW
Dale53

[Lloyd Smale]

dale i wish i had a few kegs of that original lot, mines all gone. Ive got about 80 lbs but the stuff i have is about spot on with aa9. Ive got a few kegs of the wc297 and it is very close to 110 maybe a tad slower but not enough to get excited about.

[Dale53]

Lloyd;
I bought 450 lbs for our club. It came in 150 lb plastic bottles (in an individual crate). It was a bit much to handle, but WE (accent on the WE) got it handled. It cost up $3.50 per lb, by buying in such a large quantity. It was "unproven" at the time - later, the demand and the price went WAY up.

I have shot a pile of WC - 820 and it, along with AA#9, Win 96, and H110 is as good as it gets for the .44 magnum IMO (not so humble:mrgreen:).

FWIW
Dale53

[Green Frog]

I thought I would resurrect this thread to ask whether anyone got around to doing any serious loading of the .327 Fed Mag with H-108, and if yes, what kind of results they got? I'm considering a combination of H-108 behind the old Ideal 3118 bullet, cast hard. These will be for my .327 Blackhawk so they can be fairly hot... I'll use something else for mild loads.

Froggie

[Dale53]

Froggie;
Just for the record, there are several different lots with different burning rates of H-108. Mine was a slow burning lot within one-half grain of H110 (by chronograph tests). Some lots are as fast as #9.

Having a canister lot of H110 or Win 296 to allow direct comparison with the use of a chronograph can be very helpful. I have both...

FWIW
Dale53

[sargenv]

I have a can of the WC820F and at the time Jeff at GIBrass rated it closer to HS7.

[bearmn56]

I bought 8 lbs of H108 several years ago. I also bought several pounds of Accurate Arms 4100 at the same time as it was very cheap. Both of these powders look identical to each other. They also loaded grain for grain the same. However, I did have one problem with these powders in loading for the .357 Magnum.
I was using Winchester Small Magnum primers at the time. Fortunately, I test all .357 loads in an old 4 screw S&W Mod 28. Using loads 20% below those published in the Accurate Manual and the Win SMP primers, I was getting stuck cases and very high pressures. The old Mod 28 is very stout so no harm was done. However,, things could have turned out badly in a lesser .357. In any case, I stopped and started to investigate. On page 44 of the Accurate Manual (the one with the red cover) they have a discussion on primers. They had a warning on the Winchester Small Mag pistol primers....stating that they could raise pressures as much as 35%!!!!
So, I changed to CCI 500s and everything was back to normal with all of the published loads in the Accurate manual coming out fine as to pressure and extraction.
I tried some other small mag pistol primers and got higher than normal pressures. So to be prudent, I poured 4 lbs of AA4100 on my shrubs around the house. I still have the partial bottle (maybe 2-3lbs) of H108 in my powder storage area...but have not used any of it for years...I probably should pour this out too. I find that under certain conditions that this powder is way too touchy for my conservative taste.
Just wanted to share this and hope it helps someone stay out of trouble.
Bearmn56
Montana Territory