need load data for 40S&W

[DeadWood]

180gr FP(cast of course) and TiteGroup

Neither manual i have show data. Assuming i need newer manuals?

thanks

[RayinNH]

What powders?...Ray

[GabbyM]

The Lyman 175 grain TC and magma 180 grain are close enough.
You can probably also find data on the powder manufactures web site.
then there's cast pics section on this forum to look through.

Are you still pondering what powder to by or where you at.

[DeadWood]

Springfield XDM
Hodgdon TiteGroup
180gr FP (http://shop.snscasting.com/product.sc?productId=50&categoryId=1)

[MtGun44]

Try the Hodgdon web site.

http://data.hodgdon.com/cartridge_load.asp

Typically you can use jacketed bullet data safely with lead boolits, although the velocity
will not be particularly close. In my experience, you usually get higher velocity with lead
than the same wt jacketed.

Bill

[DeadWood]

had checked Hodgdon site. Wasn't sure if i could use "J" data with cast.

Next question, Do you consider this powder "safe" to use with cast boolits? or does it burn to fast/hot?

Recomendations on other powders

[Recluse]

had checked Hodgdon site. Wasn't sure if i could use "J" data with cast.

I will never criticize any reloader--novice or veteran--who hesitates and wants to get a second (or multiple) opinion because they're either not sure of something, or not comfortable with something.

(I will, however, reserve the right to get highly irritated at those who decide one day that "I'm gonna be a reloader" and come to a website and request data for every caliber they own because they're too busy to be bothered to buy a reloading manual and read it.)

I've found that there are some boolits, styles and weights that there is just not much data for. In those instances, I find the closest possible bullet and weight combination, compare powders, then start at the low-end. This also goes for comparing to jacketed loads as well.

At the same time, I'm not bashful about asking for others' input and experience here as well. That's what everyone is here for, after all.

:coffee:

[DeadWood]

[QUOTE=Recluse;788881]I will never criticize any reloader--novice or veteran--who hesitates and wants to get a second (or multiple) opinion because they're either not sure of something, or not comfortable with something.

Thats me novice(also big dreamer) and like Multiple opinions until i feel comfortable.:coffee:

i know why newbies get a bad rap, i often get sick listening to myself.

[MtGun44]

(Good to ask around. Recluse is right, often there is little info available and you
have to take what you can get and make sure you are starting "too low" (safe
pressures) and work up. Cross comparing different sources is good, especially if
they list pressures.

TG is perfectly fine with cast lead boolits. It is on the fast side and may possibly
reach max pressure before reaching max velocity in a particular caliber. In most
cases maximum velocity loads are obtained with powders that are 'slow' for that
cartridge. I use TG for .45 ACP as my first choice (cast 200 gr lead).

Hodgdon shows that Longshot (slower) gives just under 1200 fps with the 180 XTP at max
pressure where TG produces only 978 fps at the same pressure. So, if you feel like
you need maximum possible velocity, TG isn't going to deliver it. Of course, a 978 fps
load should be fine for practice and target shooting.

Bill

[DeadWood]

Thanks Bill and others. Loads will be for paractice and target shooting as stated. I feel i learn/understand more when asking on the forums. It seems something positive always comes of it as in this question the poweder in general was questioned in my search with using cast boolits. I find that GREAT forums such as this is often the best place to learn once you have read the "manuals". Received my Lyman Cast manual last week and have been reading (first few chapters are great if history buff), but manuals just cover the basics and particulars, they often leave me with more questions than before i read.

Thanks everyone

Got to get a chronograph!! if just for my own sense of wanting to understand more

[David2011]

+1 on the chronograph. It is an inexpensive learning tool at about $100. Get with someone who can look at cases and evaluate primers for signs of pressure. What is safe with one boolit might not be with another. I didn't have time to cast for an IPSC match last fall and bought commercial boolits. Using my usual 4.7 grains of Titegroup (I am NOT recommending this as a starting load!) which pushes my 178.5 grain boolit at 940 fps, the velocity went to 1045 fps with someone else's boolit. The primers flattened considerably. His boolits measured .001 larger and 3 to 4 grains heavier than mine. Little changes can make big differences, especially in this cartridge. You might start with 4.0 to 4.2 grains of TG and see if it will cycle your gun. If not, increase the charge in 0.1 gr increments until you get reliable ejection and pickup of the new round. I use only Federal or Winchester primers with this load so I don't know how it would work with other primers.

Another big factor with .40 S&W is seating depth. Be sure you keep the depth constant so you don't build dangerous pressures or get erratic results. Measure your overall length often to maintain consistency.

I'll plug the Competition Electronics ProChrono Digital Chronograph. The digital model has a 10 string memory. If you get a bad shot you can remove it from the string and get your adjusted averages. It's light and easy to set up- very friendly to use.

David

[MtGun44]

Make sure your combination of neck tension (brass ID vs boolit diam) plus crimp make
it impossible to push the boolit into the case. David2011's example agrees with several
friend's reports that .40S&W is running close to the edge as a cartidge design and you
don't want a boolit pushing into the case and dramatically increasing the pressures.

Start low, work up slowly. David2011 is also dead on about ejection as a useful indicator
of where your ammo is compared to normal factory loads. Of course, it isn't any direct
indicator or pressures, but if your cases are landing 2 ft away you can be sure that they
are lower pressure than a load which has cases landing in the next zip code.

This method doesn't work so well for revolvers. ;-)

Be safe.

Bill

[smaj100]

Hey guys,

I have a question regarding 175-180gr lead loads. I think I made a newbie mistake by using the lyman load data for 175gr lead fp bullet instead of finding data for a 180gr fp. I have had several case failures in the past week using these new bullets, and I am wondering if I have loaded them too hot. I am using 5.7 gr of w231 which is just inside of the max for the lyman book of 5.8. Several of my other manuals show 5.7 as a starting load, but I feel like I am already close to what is a max load. I pulled a couple of the new 180gr and weighted them, they all weighted in at 180 +4gr. Any ideas or suggestions as to how everyone else feels about this level of a load? and is it too much for the bigger bullet?

What does weight due to pressure? Is there a general rule of thumb regarding increase of weight for an increase in pressure?

[GabbyM]

Hey guys,

I have a question regarding 175-180gr lead loads. I think I made a newbie mistake by using the lyman load data for 175gr lead fp bullet instead of finding data for a 180gr fp. I have had several case failures in the past week using these new bullets, and I am wondering if I have loaded them too hot. I am using 5.7 gr of w231 which is just inside of the max for the lyman book of 5.8. Several of my other manuals show 5.7 as a starting load, but I feel like I am already close to what is a max load. I pulled a couple of the new 180gr and weighted them, they all weighted in at 180 +4gr. Any ideas or suggestions as to how everyone else feels about this level of a load? and is it too much for the bigger bullet?

What does weight due to pressure? Is there a general rule of thumb regarding increase of weight for an increase in pressure?

The suggested starting load from the 49th Lyman manual for Lyman #401638 is 4.3 grains of WW231. Now you know why. Lyman reloading books are full of hot loads. Looking in the Hodgdon book or website you'll see they list 5.0 grains as max for the 180 grain bullet. With WW 231 or HP38. Same powder.

As far as weight the Lyman bullet cast from 2/6 allow weighs 177gr. Your overall length for that Magma bullet would probably be out to 1.125”. whatever fits before hitting rifling or not fitting the magazine. The magma nose is a bit longer with a bit smaller meplat. As mentioned above 40 S&W, as is 9 x 19mm, are sensitive to overall length as it effects case capacity. .040” makes a big difference.

I see a kinetic bullet puller in your future.

Then tell us what kind of case failure.

[smaj100]

Gabby,

I already own the puller and have started disassembling all 200rnds of this lead load.

The 2 case failures I experienced occurred in this order. The first head came off leaving the case stuck in the barrel, the 2nd case failed the same way except the gun failed and part of the polymer frame separated from the rest of the gun in my wifes hands. Luckily she only experienced some very minor powder burns along her shooting finger. The gun has been replaced by the manufacturer. I guess that's what happens when you assume that the lyman book should be, the be all end all book on reloading lead. I won't make that mistake twice or will I blindly take pre-made bullets at the weight listed on the box.

[GabbyM]

Oh my I'd call that a catastrophic failure. Verbs are helpful at times.

If you used the COL listed for the Lyman bullet you deep seated them by .025”. It all adds up.
A few extra grains in bullet weight isn't going to cause that high pressure or even be a contributing factor in it. Hot charge to start with. Deep seating or incorrect weight of powder. Out of curiosity I'd check my scales then weigh a few of the powder charges from dissembled rounds. If you've not adjusted your measure drop a couple charges to see what it's doing.

Lyman manual clearly advises you to start with the listed start charge. So I'd not say the manual is wrong.

[johnlaw484]

Had to be a Glock?

[DukeInFlorida]

If you have a bullet or powder combo that isn't covered in some CURRENT book, you should ALWAYS call the powder manufacturer, and ask them for their reload data. They all have 800 numbers for you to call, and they consider your safety above all else.

They'll either advise you of the load data for that powder/bullet or advise you to NOT use that powder for whatever reason.

I've never had them not tell me what load data to use.

[smaj100]

Had to be a Glock?

It was actually a Taurus 24/7, which has a fully supported chamber unlike some glocks. Less than 2k rnds through it.

[sargenv]

You can also check out www.hodgdon.com. They have powder listed for their powders and two other manufacturers.. I think Winchester and IMR. Otherwise you can check out Alliant's powder web site as well for their loading data. The powder companies tend to be pretty conservative but it's a good starting point.

[9.3X62AL]

I'll pile on with Recluse and give kudoes to the original poster for exercising caution and common sense in load development. I am very sorry to read of your misfortune, Smaj--you kind of got betrayed by Lyman's data. FWIW, 4.7 grains of WW-231 gives the Lee 175 TC ~935 FPS from my CZ-75 and gave ~965 FPS in a Beretta 96. This closely matched the WW 180 SXT carry load ballistics I strive to duplicate for practice shooting.

I've posted ad nauseum about how certain calibers (9mm Luger, 8 x 57 Mauser) are downloaded well under their potential by American ammomakers. In the case of the 40 S&W, caution concerning maximum velocities is well-founded. The 180 grain HPs at 900-950 FPS do a very good job of stopping predators of the 2-legged sort, and I can think of no worse time to have a catastrophic case failure than when engaged in an exchange of finality. If a super-sonic velocity is desired, the 10mm or 357 SIG should be selected.

[bbs70]

I shoot the Lee 175 g cast boolit in my Glock model 22 40 cal.
Yep, with aftermarket Wolf barrel.

Checking and cross referencing all the powder makers web sites for different powder weights for the right powder can get confusing.
I believe it is called sensory overload, or just too many dead brain cells at my age.:)

Personally I like Vihtavuori powders in my Glock.
I experimented with hs-6, titegroup, w231, v320, unique, universal, and several other powders.
But I settled on n340 because it was the most accurate of all the powders I have tried and burns very clean.
It cost more, but with the accuracy I get and with almost no powder fouling I believe it is worth it.

But Vihtavuori's web site doesn't give much in the way of 40 cal infomation.:sad:

[truckmsl]

Don't overlook Winchester WST for cast loads in .40. A small charge makes for an excellent target load without the nasty tightgroup stain on the brass.

[GaugeGreer]

Titegroup at 3.8 grains 1.130 oal spp. Its a smoker with a lead cast bullet. Try wst instead. 4.3 grains. Or solo 1000.. solo is lot to lot different the most ive ever seen in powders so start at 4.0 and work up