Carcano results.

[JeffinNZ]

Team.

Just go back from the first outing to the range with my sporterised 91/41 Carcano. Mixed but promising results.

Cast the 6.5 Cruise missile bullets in range scrap of 14.5 BHN, 175gr. All shooting was done at 50m/55y with Prvi brass, CCI primers and my own lube. Gas checks are 0.010 alum made in a FC II.

Powders today were H4227 (15, 16, 17, 18gr) and Benchmark (17, 18, 19, 20gr). Velocities from 1383 to 1592fps on the H4427 and 1266 to 1502fps on the Benchmark.

Benchmark definitely better. Groups 1 1/4 to 1 1/2 inches at 50m/55y BUT the holes in the paper are egg shaped. Me thinks I need some more velocity? Ideas? I am going to try some larger charges of W748 and H4350 tomorrow.

Also had 6 fail to fire loads. Light primer strikes. Someone has done a job on the trigger as it is LIGHT and I wonder if that is the cause. I will strip the bolt and clean it also.

Other than the egg shaped holes and the fail to fire cartridges I promising start.

[swheeler]

Sounds like you may have the need for speed. Measureing my 91/41 I get 8.1:1 twist and takes just under 1600fps to be stable with that long bullet. Try this calculator http://kwk.us/twist.html. Gday

[Shooter6br]

I use Lee 170g crise missle in my 6.5 Jap I use 14 g 4759 no keyholes

[JeffinNZ]

HUH! Sorted the fail to fire. Headspace on the new brass. I dismantled the non starters and ran the cases into the FL die and backed the live (cringe) primer out just a few thou. then chambered the primed case, pulled the trigger and BINGO or BANG as it happens. New loads I have not seated the primers fully to be sure of ignition and the case headspacing itself.

[Boz330]

Jeff, that is the exact same problem I had with the Carcano, so I went for more speed and gott almost 100% sideways hits or complete misses. :veryconfu
I'm not saying that is what will happen with your gun but is what happened with mine. Things got better when I went the other way and I'm getting 2 1/2" groups at 100yd but all of the holes are oval so far. I have a bunch of different powders loaded waiting for the 40 days and 40 nights of rain to let up. I hate being waist deep in water in the winter while load testing.:shock:
I'm sort of leaning towards the answer being a slower powder. You have a lot better weather down there right now so please post your results if you have any luck.
I'm also trying to get a #1 to shoot with the CBE 316235. Apparently this was shot with a lot of Cordite and the standard 314299 that shoots great from my #4 turns sideways as well. The CBE really shows some promise though and I think the answer will be in the powder. I would really like to get this gem shooting since it has a PH5A rear sight and that thing is sweet. Good luck.

Bob

[swheeler]

Jeff; run your brass over a 7mm expander plug, back your Car dies off a couple threads and keep sizing/screwing in until you can just close bolt with slight resistance. Now when you fire these you will have brass custom made to your chamber, set your dies up to just touch the shoulder on the fired brass/ minimum HS brass if you will/ and lock them down, brass is good to go for a lot of firing now.
If you have H4895 and DACRON 20-23 grs 16-1750 may be just what your rifle wants.

[JeffinNZ]

OK, over guessimated the W748 and H4350 charges and got TOO much velocity this time. 1800fps to high 1900fps. Bullets going wild. My guess is too much torque for the alloy. Will back off and find a happy medium (here's hoping).

[leadman]

If I remember correctly the Carcano has a gain twist rifling in the barrel. Don't know how or if this would affect cast.

I know the one I had (and wish I still did) grouped very well but shot way high.

[swheeler]

If I remember correctly the Carcano has a gain twist rifling in the barrel. Don't know how or if this would affect cast.

I know the one I had (and wish I still did) grouped very well but shot way high.

The M1891/41 has a standard rate of twist barrel, no gain twist in this one.

[geargnasher]

Hmmmm, Sounds like the problem the the Cruise Missile has in the Swedish Mausers, keyholing past 50 yards at 1600 fps.

Anyone figure this out let me know!

Keep watch on Larry Gibson's thread on use of filler in the Swedish Mauser, the loading techniques he's in the process of proving out and proper case fitting techniques could get that Carcano on track.

Gear

[45 2.1]

Hmmmm, Sounds like the problem the the Cruise Missile has in the Swedish Mausers, keyholing past 50 yards at 1600 fps. Lots of folks have this well in hand. Read the past posts.

Keep watch on Larry Gibson's thread on use of filler in the Swedish Mauser, the loading techniques he's in the process of proving out Thats been proved a long time ago, he is in the process of learning how to do that. and proper case fitting techniques could get that Carcano on track.

[JeffinNZ]

Team.

Now I am making some progress.

Yesterday I shot W748 and the same 14.5 BHN alloy (Cruise Missile). More shotgun style patterns and bullets tipping. Further, the ES of velocity were not great but that's to be expected from ball powder in half case full loads I guess.

Today I shot the range scrap alloy CM's again but this time heat treated to 21 BHN. I shot over charges of Benchmark and H4350, all at 50m. The H4350 was easily better. See the following.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v505/JeffinNZ/Shooting%20stuff/DSCN1480.jpg

Target on the left - Top group is 23gr of H4350, 1390fps, 1/2 inch at 50m with some bullet yaw evident. The bottom group is Benchmark 24gr, 1735fps and only so so.

Target on the right - Group is a composite of 24 & 25gr H4350, 1450 and 1520fps respectively. 1 1/2 inches in total though the individual groups are a bit smaller and a degree of human error over those issue sights. Still a smidge of yaw but 24gr shows less than 23gr and 25gr shows less than 24gr. As one of our members pointed out to me the CM in my Carcano needs 1600fps to stabilise and that is evident here.

All loads were on PRVI brass, CCI primers, copper gas checks 0.010 ex FC II, my own lube, 3 grease grooves filled, OAL 3.00, bullets 'as cast' at 0.2705 in my 0.269 throat (a good squeeze fit as the bolt turns down)

I will try charges of 26/27/28gr H4350 and the heat treated alloy over the weekend all going well and report. The extra velocity is bound to help.

[swheeler]

Jeff looks like your getting a handle on it! Next thing you know you'll be wapping something with it. Scot

[JeffinNZ]

You must be clairvoyant Scot. I am planning a wallaby hunting trip for April and want to take the Carcano (and the purple longjohns of course).

[swheeler]

Jeff, if you can get 3 or 4 of them little buggers lined up one missile should do the job! With a SD of .330 it's like the energizer bunny, it keeps going and going and going. BarBed Joey pretty good, tastes like chicken?