Now ya got me thinking, dammit...

[Captain*Kirk]

I knew this sort of forum would get me in trouble.....my fling with guns is sort of like a cat litter box....I keep trying to cover up s%#t, but it's right under the surface and isn't hard to uncover. And, so it is with this whole black powder thing. We get started jawing about BP guns, in particular, the Lyman Great Plains rifle I never bought, and, well....there it is. I thought I'd put this to bed years ago when I picked the Trade Rifle in percussion over the GP in flint, because, well, that's all I could afford at the time.
Apparently not. I now have a big-time jones for the GP in flint, .54 preferable, but .50 will do (but, damn, it was a gen-u-wine Hawken!)LOL!
In kit form, preferably.
This is sort of in my price range. Sort of.
My question is, I've heard a few negatives about weak lock springs and sloppy triggers. I'm fairly handy with tools (*blatant understatement*)and have built one kit gun already. Can the stock lock and set triggers be massaged into making this a decent flinter? Some feedback from some present owners, perhaps? Thanks!

[docone31]

One thing I know about a Jones, It does not really go away.
Have you tried Cabelas Traditional Hawken?
I have one in .50, a cap locker. Not too bad. Does it all for me. I want to get a Tap-O-Cap. I never was partial to Flinters, caps do it for me.
The quality of the Cabelas rifles is pretty good. Any issues, and they stand behind it.
With the price of ammo these days, black powder is the way to get to the range.
Satisfy the Jones!

[Captain*Kirk]

One thing I know about a Jones, It does not really go away.
Have you tried Cabelas Traditional Hawken?
I have one in .50, a cap locker. Not too bad. Does it all for me. I want to get a Tap-O-Cap. I never was partial to Flinters, caps do it for me.
The quality of the Cabelas rifles is pretty good. Any issues, and they stand behind it.
With the price of ammo these days, black powder is the way to get to the range.
Satisfy the Jones!

Unfortunately (if you want to view it that way!) I've already got a Trade rifle (caplock) in .50. And you know how the jones works.....never duplicate!
So, a flinter in .54 would be the ticket, but I'll take a .50. My Trade has a 1:48 twist, which means it really, really likes the 325gr REAL bullets I cast for it. The GP has a 1:60 twist making it ideal for the patched RB.....again, there goes that jones thing.
I've not yet checked out Cabelas; I went to the Traditions site, and their prices were all quite a bit higher than the Lymans...plus, I'm itching to do another kit.

[docone31]

I have found them to be pretty nice.
http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/product/standard-item.jsp?_DARGS=/cabelas/en/common/catalog/item-link.jsp_A&_DAV=MainCatcat602007-cat601141&id=0006378210059a&navCount=2&podId=0006378&parentId=cat601141&masterpathid=&navAction=push&catalogCode=IA&rid=&parentType=index&indexId=cat601141&hasJS=true
Also, the Italian steel Hawken Furniture kit goes along with the Hawken from Cabelas.
I stripped the stock, did a refinish job that made the rifle glow!!! I then browned the barrel. A real deep job, not a quickie, and browned the furniture.
I soldered an underrib, soldered the pipes to the underrib, recut the dovetail, put in a german silver front sight, and used the rear sight from the kit.
With the difference between the brass rear buttplate, and the steel buttplate, the curve was more normal.
all in all, it was a rifle to be proud of.
And, yes! They do love the R.E.A.L.s!
When I browned the barrel, I also blued the barrel engraveing.
Made it kinda snappy.

[Captain*Kirk]

Yes, you're right...thanks for the link! My only regret is I don't see the flint in kit form. And I love the idea of doing a plum brown job rather than traditional bluing. I guess I have time to consider and shop, as it may take some time to squirrel away the money (Cap'n don't do credit cards!)

[mooman76]

I picked up a good used Cabelas Hawkins some years ago. It had interchabable 58/50 barrels. Good gun. I believe back then they were mad for cabelsa by Lyman if I remember right. I don't know who makes them now. CK you might want to check out Dixiegunworks. They have allot of kits or you can build one from scratch. Lots of parts too.

[blackpowder man]

I have a lyman GPR in .54 percussion and I love it. It shoots round balls great out to 100 yards. I haven't tried farther, but the downside to .54 is the amount of powder. Target loads out 50+ are 70 grains 2f and 100 grains at 100 yards. My .50s(4 of them) will shoot 50 grains 2f target loads at 50+ and 65-70 grains at 100 yards. My lyman is an older one that had a going over by Bob Watts years ago. One common problem is the need to file down the front sight or switch to a shorter one. Another downside I see to the kits is the time/money to finish all the metal. If you spend hours polshing and brown it yourself maybe the savings are justified, but to pay someone to blue it= no savings at all. Impact guns shows the .50 flint finished(not kit) in stock for $409.99. The fast twist barrels or replacement barrels to allow switching between percussion and flint are in the $130 range and dixie gun works used to sell good replacement drop in locks for the Lymans. Mine has given me no troubles with the lock.

[Geraldo]

Let me explain one thing, Captain Kirk, you can only do one of two things for the Jones: give in or get help. Since you've obviously come to the wrong place for help, just buy the GPR. DNR Sports has .54 flint kits for $379 and rifles for $439.

Like you, I bought what I could afford back in the day, which was a TC Renegade instead of a Hawken. I fought the TC Hawken Jones for a good fifteen years before I gave in and bought one. Like a drunk on an endless bender I've been buying TC Hawkens and Renegade, Green Mountain barrels, TC custom barrels, parts, and molds ever since.

If you want someone to tell you not to buy it, go to a support group. If you want reasons why you should not only get a .54 flint GPR, but also a .50 percussion GPR Hunter with the fast twist so you can shoot paper patched conicals like IdahoRon, come to Castboolits. :D

[docone31]

Capn, that link is a flinter. They just show the cap lock photo.
The best browning I used was the Dixie Gun Works Browning.
Made a deep, thick coat.

[northmn]

As one fairly hanfy with tools, I think you should really forget about the production guns and go a good kit from a variety of suppliers like Track of the Wolf, Jim Chambers or whatever. Start with a fairly plain inexpensive one and do not buy the best grade of wood. but you can now go bankrupt in a very fun hobby.

http://i550.photobucket.com/albums/ii425/Davidpeck16/003.jpg

Whiel hardly a showpiece, I built this shotgun from a tree I cut myself and a 5$ barrel I picked up at a gunshow. the other parts were laying such that I had a total cost in the whole project of maybe $100. The lock I picked up through scrounging sometime ago. If you learn to build you can sometimes have fun. It setting atop a "sister" stock blank of the one its built out of.

[hoosierlogger]

Years ago I bought one from Cabelas in the kit form. It is a .54 with the flint. I wish I would have went with the cap instead. Flintlocks are not for me. I dont like the flash that close to my face.

[buckweet]

....i just bought a replacement .54 caplock barrel for my dad's old lyman GPR,

1:32 twist, looking forward to shooting this. i say go for it. buy as many as you want.

its only money........ [just trying to help]

wishes i couldda found a .58 .... but ? pretty sure the .54 will do all i'll want it to do.

[Dean D.]

Howdy Capt'n! I know all about those Jones myself... [smilie=1:

I ordered a Lancaster .54 flinter kit from TOW last March thinking I'd be able to have it done before huntin season....yeah....right! :lol: My hardware arrived in April but my stock did not arrive until late October or early November.

Meanwhile...back at the ranch...the Joneses arrived with a vengeance. I already had my BP tags and no rifle to hunt with for our September season... :groner: Sooooo I went online and bought a finished Lyman GPR .54 1:60 twist flinter from MidwayUSA for $500 delivered to my door.

I have been happy with the rifle and it managed to drop (and I mean literally DROP) a nice fat doe during the early season.

I only had/have 2 complaints with this rifle so far.

First, the front sight was not installed properly. QC must have been taking a nap. The sight was crammed into the dovetail cockeyed from the factory. They must have used a BFH (Big E'ffn Hammer). I removed it and touched up the dovetail to make it fit right.

Second, I do not really care for the recessed "Knox" type breech. The recessed chamber in this breech plug is approximately .35 cal.which makes it a pain to clean. I have had a few flashes in the pan even after using a vent pick which I attribute to fouling in the recessed area of the chamber. I am going to investigate this more and possibly ream out the chamber to match the bore. This seems logical to me as it would permit better cleaning with a jag and patch. The fouling is not an issue for hunting as you are starting with a clean bore but could become a major pain during a trail walk with say 30 targets... [smilie=1:

I have not had a problem with the lock but if a person was going to use this rifle for competition you could get a "drop-in" lock from L&R to replace it. The L&R I have for my TOW kit is definitely a much nicer lock and it seems faster with stronger spark than the GPR coil spring lock.

I am very happy with the double set trigger that comes stock with this rifle. It is crisp and smooth for me so far. Hopefully it holds up to regular use.

I opted for the 1:60 twist as I will use this for a backup gun at future Rendezvous competitions where only patched round balls are allowed. The way the 230 RB laid out that doe I doubt very severely that I will buy the drop in 1:32 barrel that is available. "Don' need no steenkin conicals" :lol" But, the option is still there if I change my mind.

All in all, I am pleased with my GPR and have no regrets with the purchase.

Good luck to you whichever choice you make yourself! 8-)

[buckweet]

Howdy Capt'n! I know all about those Jones myself... [smilie=1:

I ordered a Lancaster .54 flinter kit from TOW last March thinking I'd be able to have it done before huntin season....yeah....right! :lol: My hardware arrived in April but my stock did not arrive until late October or early November.

Meanwhile...back at the ranch...the Joneses arrived with a vengeance. I already had my BP tags and no rifle to hunt with for our September season... :groner: Sooooo I went online and bought a finished Lyman GPR .54 1:60 twist flinter from MidwayUSA for $500 delivered to my door.

I have been happy with the rifle and it managed to drop (and I mean literally DROP) a nice fat doe during the early season.

I only had/have 2 complaints with this rifle so far.

First, the front sight was not installed properly. QC must have been taking a nap. The sight was crammed into the dovetail cockeyed from the factory. They must have used a BFH (Big E'ffn Hammer). I removed it and touched up the dovetail to make it fit right.

Second, I do not really care for the recessed "Knox" type breech. The recessed chamber in this breech plug is approximately .35 cal.which makes it a pain to clean. I have had a few flashes in the pan even after using a vent pick which I attribute to fouling in the recessed area of the chamber. I am going to investigate this more and possibly ream out the chamber to match the bore. This seems logical to me as it would permit better cleaning with a jag and patch. The fouling is not an issue for hunting as you are starting with a clean bore but could become a major pain during a trail walk with say 30 targets... [smilie=1:

I have not had a problem with the lock but if a person was going to use this rifle for competition you could get a "drop-in" lock from L&R to replace it. The L&R I have for my TOW kit is definitely a much nicer lock and it seems faster with stronger spark than the GPR coil spring lock.

I am very happy with the double set trigger that comes stock with this rifle. It is crisp and smooth for me so far. Hopefully it holds up to regular use.

I opted for the 1:60 twist as I will use this for a backup gun at future Rendezvous competitions where only patched round balls are allowed. The way the 230 RB laid out that doe I doubt very severely that I will buy the drop in 1:32 barrel that is available. "Don' need no steenkin conicals" :lol" But, the option is still there if I change my mind.

All in all, I am pleased with my GPR and have no regrets with the purchase.

Good luck to you whichever choice you make yourself! 8-)




recessed chamber... just use a .35 caliber cleaning brush ? i dont know... ?

mine has the same thing...

[Dean D.]

Yeah Tim, that is what I do. It is just a pain to have to carry the extra brush just to swab out between shots.

[405]

So help me I'll leave the thread if someone pipes up and demands Cap'nK post a picture of the jones--- I'll leave the forum if he posts it :mrgreen: :kidding:

It is truly a disease. I think there is a need in all of us to connect with our roots. To retreat from the plastic banana 21st century with the constant bombardment from ET, TMZ and the national network puppet news. It's a search for something real, an anachronism of the past.

Read a book, watch a movie or documentary, listen to gun folk talk, peruse a museum, slobber on someone else's firearms, watch others shoot, etc. It takes a toll. Everytime I allow myself exposure, I get poorer! We're all prone to the disease so don't feel alone there Cap'n!

I like the suggestions about a parts kit from one of the suppliers like TOW. The first one I did took a really long time to complete since it wasn't a "mostly" done type. Trial by fire right out of the blocks. The wood was not inletted so a huge hands-on education about how to do that. Then the parts were from three or more different sources. 500 hours labor later... finished gun. But in the mean time I didn't spend money I didn't have on another gun! Lots of sweat equity in that one.

If I were looking to build a flinter or a close Hawken replica I'd for sure bite the bullet up front and get a good lock, trigger and barrel. Plain wood and simple furniture are just as period correct if not more so in certain types than the fancier stuff.

[docone31]

The ultimate Jones!!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JIbp5C-5WXM

[waksupi]

For anyone considering building a rifle, I highly recommend "The Gunsmith of Grenville County". It's available through the Muzzleloader Magazine web site.

[runnin lead]

As one fairly hanfy with tools, I think you should really forget about the production guns and go a good kit from a variety of suppliers like Track of the Wolf, Jim Chambers or whatever. Start with a fairly plain inexpensive one and do not buy the best grade of wood. but you can now go bankrupt in a very fun hobby.

http://i550.photobucket.com/albums/ii425/Davidpeck16/003.jpg

Whiel hardly a showpiece, I built this shotgun from a tree I cut myself and a 5$ barrel I picked up at a gunshow. the other parts were laying such that I had a total cost in the whole project of maybe $100. The lock I picked up through scrounging sometime ago. If you learn to build you can sometimes have fun. It setting atop a "sister" stock blank of the one its built out of.

NICE SHOTGUN
I have to disagree on the part about not getting the best grade of wood, my first build that I did from parts & my own inletting i got a plain jane straight grained stock because I might goof up,REGRETTED it .
I am not saying you need the most expensive, fanciest chunk out there but get a stock with SOME FIGURE , not the best but not a plain jane or you will regret it.
If you decide to go with the GPR ,while I have never built one myself I have heard lots of good about them & I am going to tell one of the guys at work that is what he should get , but I am going to tell him to get the cap lock to start out & if he wants later he can get an aftermarket flintlock & ventliner & convertit if he wants.

[northmn]

There used to be an individual on another thread that built rifles and engraved others that cost more than some new cars do (he bought a new car with one sale). His work was absolutely fantastic. His comments were that he could not afford to shoot his own guns as he could make more building them for others. He shot a Lyman great plains. But, he also had the skill to make sure it worked right.

Northmn

[drafterman]

This may not be a option to you, but I picked up a used Lyman GPR, and rebuilt it. I reshaped the stock to have cleaner lines and better finish. The barrel was stripped of the bluing and plum browned. It turned out beautiful. So beautiful in fact that I sold it for way more than I had invested.

Not sure if it was easier than a kit, but it was cheaper, and I had a chance to check it out before I laid down my cash.

[waksupi]

Just for general information. Early rifles were blued. Browning really didn't come in, until around 1840.

[Captain*Kirk]

Wow.....a lotta good dope on this thread (no, not THAT kinda dope! Hell, Obammy's Brown Shirts are probably pricking up their spy-ears right now. :takinWiz:(They're everywhere, ya know!) No, the kind of straight dope I was looking for. First off, I know it's useless to fight the jones, especially one that's been buried or supressed and has risen like a zombie looking for a midnight snack. Those are the worst kind!:holysheep
It won't rest until I own a flinter....of that much I'm certain. Now, like an alcoholic, I've admitted it; it's not so bad. Hi, I'm the Cap'n and I'm a flintaholic......[smilie=l:
Anyway, the though of building a gun from scratch is a novel thought I hadn't considered. I will now, though! Any good links for parts, anyone?
Also, I haven't looked about for a used GP at all, but I will now, as well. Doesn't really matter what shape it's in if I tear it down and start from scratch, right?
And if all else fails, just keep dropping the dimes in the piggy bank for the GP kit!

[405]

Cap'nK,
Nothing wrong with Italian guns but staying a little closer to home makes sense to me anyway, they're just not my style. In any case I'm not sure of the flavor of your tastes specifically-- Early Hawken flint? trade flint? Kentucky flint? Penn. flint? Tenn./Southern mountain/Poor boy flint? etc.??? For budget and simplicity you might consider the Tennessee/Southern Mtn. type. Talk about clean simple lines!!!!

Here's a link to a Tenn. kit on the TOW site... one possiblility among several. You might go ahead and get their full catalog. That way you can study all the possibilities and study pictures and costs for each style.
http://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categories/GunKit.aspx?catID=13&subID=77&styleID=285&partNum=KIT-EARLY-TENN-15-FLINT&partList=True

[buckweet]

wow, thats a nice kit.

[northmn]

The Tennessee parts kit will make you a fairly elaborate one. Some were made without nose caps and butt plates and used a grease hole instead of a patchbox. True Po boys. Another similar priced rifle is the Leman kit you could look at on the same site. Its plains style rifle. Advantage of a kit is that you will ahve a much better lock and barrel than on a production gun.

Northmn

[waksupi]

Cap'nK,


Here's a link to a Tenn. kit on the TOW site... one possiblility among several. You might go ahead and get their full catalog. That way you can study all the possibilities and study pictures and costs for each style.
http://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categories/GunKit.aspx?catID=13&subID=77&styleID=285&partNum=KIT-EARLY-TENN-15-FLINT&partList=True

That would be a great starter gun to build. And the price is definitely right. And you certainly could pare down a bit more expense, if you went for making a real Poor Boy. The Durrs Egg lock makes it a worthwhile upgrade from a GPR for the price.