Light boolits in 45-70?

[Charlie Sometimes]

I see that there are at least 11 molds weighted under 300 gr. that Lyman has manufactured at one time or another for the 45-70 Gov't- 6 of those 225 gr. and under.

I have a "Big Lube" 6-cavity Lee mold for a 200 gr. 45 ROA boolit that throws boolits at 0.460 inches. I intend to size them to 459 and shoot these in my "new" 45-70 soon- maybe just for plinking at first.

Anybody have loads for a boolit in this range?

[NickSS]

I have shot round balls that are around 140 gr with up to 10 gr of Unique and they work well. I see no reason that your 200 gr ones would not work as I shoot 300 gr slugs with up to 15 gr of Unique with good results.

[pdawg_shooter]

Big bores do their best work with big bullets. My "light weight" 45-70 bullet is a 408gr paper patched number.

[Sniper Chief]

Found the following information on the web - don't remember where, probably right here.

Chief

UNIQUE POWDER AND THE .45/70

I tried some Unique in my 45-70 Cowboy and was pleasantly surprised. I loaded 300 gr jacketed hollow points with 16 gr Unique and large pistol primers. Groups were about 1.5 inches at 50 yds at 1300 fps. This was the most enjoyable load I have ever shot with the 45-70. Recoil was more like a "puff" than a kick. No doubt many of you are aware of this but I haven't heard much about Unique and the 45-70.

I also shot some 400 gr moly lead with same 16 grains of Unique, about 1250 fps, and most importantly, with the same "puff."

Has anybody had any problems with Unique in big bore rifles?

Jim

Some where down in the drawer full of bullet molds I have an old Lyman 255 grain mold for the 45 Colt, that measures out at .458 using linotype. Back in the 60s and 70s Lyman's quality control was a bit iffy. I think they were a union shop.

I used this mold to make bullets for my 45-70 bolt action, using old cases. I'd load up 13 grains of Unique with a patch of Kleenex, 1.5 inch square tamped down on the powder with a wooden dowel and seat the bullet. I could get a whole day's worth of shooting for next to nothing and have a ball doing it.

The paper mostly burned up in the barrel, though there were times when small particles came out the muzzle on fire, usually burning out before they hit the ground.

I've burned hundreds of rounds using 405gr LRNFP and 16gr of Unique. It's a terrific load and has been very reliable.

I got the load from Paul Matthews in "40 Years with the 45-70".

Had a bunch of .451" bullets to shoot, and the game of the time was simple off hand tin-can plinking...paper patched and seated over 14gr. of Unique they did fine. Over 8gr. of Red Dot they did better.

Using the soft factory swaged 255gr. lead (WW and Rem. use to sell them in bulk), paper patched to .460" worked even better with the same charges.

With both of those choices gone now (I finally shot up that big box of .451's), I cast 405's to the right diameter (for this rifle, that would be .461") and load them over the same 8gr. of red Dot i've always used.

The only "trick" is to juggle seating depth. Normally we load so that the bullet has nearly no "jump" to rifling, but you may find (I did) that seating deeper and reducing empty case volume gives better grouping than seating them long.

A lot less truble from less than filling (low loading density) loads using fast powders than when using medium or slow powders. Breaking down the factory loaded 38/55's and 32/40's finds a fast powder that occupies just about 1/2 the volume of the case. The latch box of factory 32/20's had a powder charge that occupied about 1/3 the case volume.

Are some that will argue that light loads of fact powder can cause pressure excursions...while that's true of slow powders, i seriously doubt it's true of fast ones.

Did anybody ever hunt with these loads. Red Dot is better than Unique? How about 231? I have some 231, what do you think a safe load of 231 would be? Also, do you use large pistol primers or large rifle primers?

I'm not really familiar with paper patching. What is the advantage? Do you have to buy special paper?

Like Red Dot simply becasue it's a low density powder...it's "fluffy" for the weight so it takes up more volume for a given weight than more dense/compacting powders. Also seems less position sensetive than the denser powders. Don't know if it's universally "better", but it's worked out better (and cleaner burning) than Unique for me.

Power? A 350 t0 405gr. bullet ambling along at 950 - 1025fps isn't any great shakes as a rifle, but compared to handguns, it's noteworthly. Keep it inside 50-75 yards, and you'll get about the same effect as a hot loaded .45Colt.

I like Unique, 15.5grns with a 405 grn WFN bullet and 1/2 grain of polyester fiber to hold the powder in place. I have been using this load for three years as my "fun" round.

A load that you can shoot all day and with accuracy that will keep you in or very close to the ten ring most of the time at 100 yards. Shoot it on out to 200 yards and you can watch it in flight!

You know I didn't add anything to hold the powder in place, just loaded and shot them, they all worked fine. But I did wonder about the position of the powder. Sixteen grains of Unique doesn't take up much space in a 45-70 case. Do you think it's safer to hold the powder in place?

I reviewed the data ta ww.gmdr.com and chose HS-6.
A load of 13.5g with a CCI primer and a 300g Laser Cast bullet yields 1167fps and is very consistent and accurate. With the 350g Laser Cast its 1091fps and still very accurate.

You are correct; loads like these are a joy to shoot. Would make great rounds for skunk control.

[fortrenokid]

Hard to add much to the excellent responses you've received thus far. In my H&R Officers Model Trapdoor 45-70 I use a .457 round ball (Lee mould) and approx 7gr of Unique (the 7cc Lee dipper). It works great in my rifle; never had a stuck ball. Report and recoil is comparable to 22LR. A great plinking/practice load. Suspect it would be a good hunting load for rabbits and small varmints but I've not tried it in that regard. Want a bit more power? Go to the 10cc dipper with Unique.
With the same 7cc or 10cc dipper I've used the unsized, as-cast Lee 255 gr WFN (my Cowboy Action load). In theory the .451 bullet should rattle down the .457 groove diament 45-70 barrel . In practice, for short-range plinking, I find the load to be quite accurate. I suspect the unsized Lee 255 WFN "slugs up" (perhaps obturates is the more accurate terminology) and gets some "bite" on the rifling. At any rate, works well for my short-range practice.

[Larry Gibson]

I use 6 gr of Bullseye (no wad/filler used and it is not "position sensitive") under a Rapine 460210 for 1000 fps out of my trapdoors. Suggest you start at 5 gr and work up in .5 gr increments until accuracy goes or 1050 fps is reached. Accuracy will be best under 1100 fps and is all that is needed for plinking/small game. Very pleasant and fun loads to shoot.

I also shoot the Rapine 460250 (actually a 275 gr bullet) at 1025-1050 fps out of my TDs also. I load it over 8 gr of Bullseye. I have shot it out to 500 yards with excellent results.

Larry Gibson

[JDL]

I just returned from the range with a similar load of 12 grains of Unique and Lyman 457191 (302 grains using WW alloy). I must say it was a HOOT! 3 groups at 100 yards averaged 2.78" using factory iron sights and 1 checked for speed clocked 1247 FPS. Now, seeing how much fun these are, I'm gonna roll enough for an all day shoot. These loads are not much more expensive than .22 LR and are much more satisfing. :-D
JDL

[mroliver77]

I have a 452423 single cav mold that drops .455- .456 boolits. I Beagled it to drop .461 and shoot these in my RB and Marlin over 8-15gr Unique or a light dose of any fast powder available.
Jay

[Capn Jack]

And when your cases finally crack out, drill the primer holes out to 1/8" and load some .44/.45cal. wax (Quick Draw) boolits. Lots of fun for "drive-way" practice ranges. Put up a cardboard target in the garage, with a carpet back stop. :holysheep

Jack :coffeecom