For 45ACP and 38 Special range/target shooting what other bullets should I have?

[357shooter]

Good morning,

The information from the members of this site has been extremely helpful, now this question is a little more subjective.

I'm casting/loading 45ACP and 38 Special and shoot smaller guns (22 ounce-PT145 and 17 ounce-snubnose) FYI. I shoot 99% of the time at the range, the other is plinking in the woods.

Currently casting a 200 SWC for the 45 (Lee 452-200-swc) and for the 38 cast a 148 WC and a 140 SWC (both Lee as well). I got some great advice to pick up a Lyman 200 SWC for the 45 to try as it's very accurate and will do that in the near future.

What other bullets do I need to cast or am I good for awhile?

[357shooter]

Hi,
I should have added that I carry one of the guns all the time and do handload some of my own SD ammo as well. I mention this because I just saw an awesome group buy for a 230 grain HP (that's with the HP) and signed up for it.

So if there's not a great target bullet I'm missing how about a HP for the 38 special??

[Edubya]

Wad cutters are known for their accurcy, especially in the .38. With very low velocity you get an inexpensive plinker. You can take tis one step further and get a hollow base wad cutter and even reverse it for a very short range mean @$$ SD.
EW

[Bass Ackward]

My grandfather once told me that all you needed was one gun. If you had more than that you were fickle.

Molds are cheaper than guns.

[357shooter]

Wad cutters are known for their accurcy, especially in the .38. With very low velocity you get an inexpensive plinker. You can take tis one step further and get a hollow base wad cutter and even reverse it for a very short range mean @$$ SD.
EW

Good idea, added to my list! (now 2 items, the 230 HP and the 148 HBWC).

[357shooter]

My grandfather once told me that all you needed was one gun. If you had more than that you were fickle.

Molds are cheaper than guns.

?? Are you suggesting I sell one gun?

I was asking for addition moulds for the existing 2 guns. Not sure what you are saying. Sorry, maybe you can clarify?

[Bass Ackward]

?? Are you suggesting I sell one gun?

I was asking for addition moulds for the existing 2 guns. Not sure what you are saying. Sorry, maybe you can clarify?


Nobody has just one gun anymore. And almost nobody has just one mold.

If the perfect bullet design was out there, it would be the only design sold in that bore diameter cause nobody would buy anything else.

Think of mold costs in terms of boxes of factory bullets. Depending on caliber and weight, a mold costs between 2 and 5 boxes of factory bullets for the two cavities. After you have shot that many, the mold is free. And you can turn around and sell it if you aren't happy or want to move up to a four cavity.

So it is far better (and cheaper) to try other molds than it is to buy a new gun if you are not satisfied with what you have.

Just so you know, what you love today, will cool tomorrow. No matter how well it performs. Cause with cast, it's not just the destination. It's also the journey that is addictive.

[357shooter]

Nobody has just one gun anymore. And almost nobody has just one mold.

If the perfect bullet design was out there, it would be the only design sold in that bore diameter cause nobody would buy anything else.

Think of mold costs in terms of boxes of factory bullets. Depending on caliber and weight, a mold costs between 2 and 5 boxes of factory bullets for the two cavities. After you have shot that many, the mold is free. And you can turn around and sell it if you aren't happy or want to move up to a four cavity.

So it is far better (and cheaper) to try other molds than it is to buy a new gun if you are not satisfied with what you have.

Just so you know, what you love today, will cool tomorrow. No matter how well it performs. Cause with cast, it's not just the destination. It's also the journey that is addictive.
Thanks for clarifying.

[Echo]

The WC is great for the snubbie. Versatile, cat-sneeze plinker, to target, to serious self-defense. That combination is my recommendation for the ladies for self-defense, and is perfectly acceptable for the gents, too. Loading a HBWC backwards has been suggested for decades, but I think it is silly...
Another possibility is the Lee 105 grain SWC, for social work. Less weight than the WC, so less recoil, and that is an important consideration. Can be loaded up to capable velocities, too. Cast from WW+2%...

[theperfessor]

For a lighter .38 bullet have you considered the Lee 125 gr RNFP? The one I have doesn't look like the picture in the catalogs, the nose is a bit longer. (Mine is a 6 cavity, I vaguely remember some other posts pointing out the difference in shape between the 2 and 6 hole versions, might be a date-of-purchase issue.)

It works fine in my Model 10 and GP100, but I haven't tried to push it to full magnum velocities yet. It also loads easier into the cylinders than a SWC if that matters.

Been thinking about drilling a HP into the tip to get the weight down a bit and see if it will expand at .38 velocities from my Model 36.

[357shooter]

The WC is great for the snubbie. Versatile, cat-sneeze plinker, to target, to serious self-defense. That combination is my recommendation for the ladies for self-defense, and is perfectly acceptable for the gents, too. Loading a HBWC backwards has been suggested for decades, but I think it is silly...
Another possibility is the Lee 105 grain SWC, for social work. Less weight than the WC, so less recoil, and that is an important consideration. Can be loaded up to capable velocities, too. Cast from WW+2%...

For some reason the 105 seemed "strange" to me. I could be a really nice shooting bullet now that you've mentioned it. It's added to my list.

I see you add the +2% so it must be working for you Any do's and don'ts to adding tin? I did get some advice to not add tin as unless there's problem filling out the mould. I only cast for the 45acp and 38 special so there's no high pressure requirement.

After some digging around I found that WW probably cast on the small diameter compare to other alloys, any tips on how to get a little more diameter?

I hope this doen't open up a can of worms, but I'm very interested in what others have to say since I just started casting.

My last batch was 2 to 1, clipon to stickon wheel weights with no tin added... I'm always looking for more input.

Thanks

[BD]

There's an awful lot to be said for a RNFP or HP in the 158 grain range out of a 38 snubby, and a RNFP or HP in the 230 grain range out of the .45.

I find I have better control and consistency with the slower, heavier boolits out of lighter guns. Once I drive the light weights to a velocity that's effective for social purposes the snappy recoil takes the fun right out of a 17 ounce J-frame.
BD

[357shooter]

There's an awful lot to be said for a RNFP or HP in the 158 grain range out of a 38 snubby, and a RNFP or HP in the 230 grain range out of the .45.

I find I have better control and consistency with the slower, heavier boolits out of lighter guns. Once I drive the light weights to a velocity that's effective for social purposes the snappy recoil takes the fun right out of a 17 ounce J-frame.
BD

The FBI load is great load. Any suggestions on a HP mould that casts at the correct weight? I have loaded a "factory" cast 158 over some 4227 which is very nice to shoot.

Didn't really know what to get though...

[357shooter]

For a lighter .38 bullet have you considered the Lee 125 gr RNFP? The one I have doesn't look like the picture in the catalogs, the nose is a bit longer. (Mine is a 6 cavity, I vaguely remember some other posts pointing out the difference in shape between the 2 and 6 hole versions, might be a date-of-purchase issue.)

It works fine in my Model 10 and GP100, but I haven't tried to push it to full magnum velocities yet. It also loads easier into the cylinders than a SWC if that matters.

Been thinking about drilling a HP into the tip to get the weight down a bit and see if it will expand at .38 velocities from my Model 36.

I haven 't considered it yet, but I'm looking for recommendations like yours. Thanks

[Echo]

For some reason the 105 seemed "strange" to me. I could be a really nice shooting bullet now that you've mentioned it. It's added to my list.

I see you add the +2% so it must be working for you Any do's and don'ts to adding tin? I did get some advice to not add tin as unless there's problem filling out the mould. I only cast for the 45acp and 38 special so there's no high pressure requirement.

After some digging around I found that WW probably cast on the small diameter compare to other alloys, any tips on how to get a little more diameter?

I hope this doen't open up a can of worms, but I'm very interested in what others have to say since I just started casting.

My last batch was 2 to 1, clipon to stickon wheel weights with no tin added... I'm always looking for more input.

Thanks

The 105 is a shorty, but for self-defense purpose, it makes sense to me. I disagree re the RN boolits. WC or SWC boolits let in a lot of air & light...

Added tin decreases the surface tension of the molten alloy, allowing it to fill the sharp corners rather than rounding them off. Any over 3% is wasteful, and 2-3% has worked well for me. I bought my tin (lead-free solder) from Grainger. Your 2/1 clippy/sticky is just fine for the calibers you mention, but I still suggest adding a little tin for mold fillout. And the tin doesn't add much hardness.

Harder alloy will cast larger, but not much, depending on your definition of much. Pure lino might cast .001 larger than your alloy, but I might be wrong there - I have never cast with lino.

Meine zwei pfennig.

[Houndog]

I load for both the 38 and the 45ACP. My favorite 38 Special load is a 38-150- SWC RCBS mould. I use a 50/50 WW- pure lead alloy and my boolets come out at 155GR and .359 diameter. My favorite load is that boolet over 5.0 Unique in Winchester cases and Winchester primers and a good crimp in the crimping groove. That IS a fairly warm load and you might not like it in a J frame snubby.

For the 45ACP I use Lyman's 230 RN cast of the same 50/50 alloy over Winchester Super Target in Federal cases with Federal primers at the same overall length as military ball ammo. I'm not at the shop so I can't quote the exact powder charge. I will tell you this load is real clean and don't beat on the gun. My theory on the 45 is you are already drilling almost a 1/2 inch hole, so a HP really isn't needed and at the 800-900FS velocity you're shooting, a HP MIGHT not open up reliably. Your results may be totally different.

[MtGun44]

The only load that I could get to shoot to the sights of my S&W j frame 342 was
the Lym 358429 HP over 5.0 Unique. I tried almost every possible factory self defense
load and they were inaccurate and way off the sights (8-18" !!) The FBI found that
158 LSWC HP at full power loading was the most effective self defense load when they
carried .38 Spl snubbies, and I find the same result for my J-frame. Plus it is the
most accurate load that I have tried. Easy to do 2" group at 10 yds standing
at reasonable speed (gun is DAO, too).

The Lyman 452460 is extremely accurate in several of my 1911s at moderate
velocities (3.5 grains of Titegroup).

Bill

[357shooter]

Guys, thanks for the great info and feedback. It's extremely helpful for a new caster like myself to be able to take advantage of years of experience.

I'll be getting new moulds over the next 6 months all based on your input and then will experiement with the alloy and then the the loads as that's another huge variation to this.

FYI, in 38 cal and with heavy bullets IMR4227 has become a favorite even though it takes a bunch of powder as it's pretty slow for a handgun. If you haven't tried it you might want to. Using 9.4 grains with a 158 38 cal is about 935 FPS AND it shoots to the POA very well.

MtGun44: I found what must be the last 1lb of HP-38 in the Atlanta area! I had bought some 700X last weekend because that's what they had. It has some good points but when using the Lee autodisc it doesn't meter well on the low end with small charges. Must be the big flakes. A real problem for 38 and 45... No luck finding Titegroup though...

[lylejb]

I'm very happy with the Lee 358-158-rf loaded in 38 sp or 357 mag.


Using 9.4 grains with a 158 38 cal is about 935 FPS

Maybe. Was that chronograph velocity, or was that what a loading book said?

The reason I ask is that actual velocity will vary with barrel length. Stub nose barrels usually won't produce as high vel as the load manuals say, because the manuals are testing with longer barrels. The shorter barrel simply doesn't give the powder as long of time to act on the boolit. This is even more so with the slower powders. Conversly, a longer ( than tested with) barrel may increase velocity.


it shoots to the POA very well

That's the ticket! A load that works well, shoots accurately in your gun is far more important than any perticular velocity number.


the last 1lb of HP-38 in the Atlanta area

Yeah, I know how that goes. For about the last year powder has went from non-existant, to rare, to spotty, to finally comming back in, in the Portland, OR area.
As a side note, Win 231 is the same powder as HP-38.

[357shooter]

I'm very happy with the Lee 358-158-rf loaded in 38 sp or 357 mag.



Maybe. Was that chronograph velocity, or was that what a loading book said?



That's from the loading book, which is good for at least something to compare to other loads in loading books.