Hawkens ?'s

[DeadWood]

Have decided to wipe the dust off the Hawken's this year. It's been a while since i last shot it, over 15yrs (wow). Mom and Dad bought it when i was a teen as a kit and as i look back don't think they really new what they bought me. They must have paid a good price back then b.c. i know money was tighter then than today in my house.

Recently read the fall/winter edition of Muzzeloader(?) and there was a picture of what appeared to be a Hakens with a rear tang. Does anyone know who makes these for the Hawkens?

After reading the magazine my wheels started turning and i really want to make this functional again to take a deer with. That was always the purpose, but didn't have the knowledge or anyone to help me. Thank God for the internet.

Also will be looking for a leather sling? purchased one from cabelas but didn't like it and sent it back.

Can BlackHorn209 be used in these traditional weapons?

thanks

Any good refrence to a muzzleloading forum?

[10 ga]

BH209 and White Hots will not work. Pyrodex, 777 and "The Holy Black" will work. I prefer the real stuff. Swiss, Goex, etc... What is calibre of gun? That makes a big difference in which granulation of powder and how much. Start with patched roundball and about 1 gr of powder for each cal of diameter ie. 50 gr for 50 cal, 54 gr for 54 cal. etc... and work up from there in about 5 grain increments. Do a search on how to determine twist and find out what yours is. Slow twist is strictly roundball, medium 48/1 twist will work for roundball and slow heavy conicals and the faster twist will work for lighter conicals and sabots. RWS and CCI are the best caps to use. I have quite a few MLs in sidehammer and inline. In my guns I shoot Swiss FFF in the 50s and FF in the 58. The load and boolit varies for each gun. In the slow twist guns I shoot home cast roundballs and in the inlines a variety of conical cast boolits, both full bore and saboted. I develope both plinking/small game and full power big game hunting loads for all the guns as heavy hunting loads tend to have a considerable amount of recoil. This is a great board for MLs. There are 44 pages of just titles of post threads. Search and scan back through them and you can probably find about any info you need. Welcome, Best, 10 ga

[Geraldo]

Does it say who made it on the barrel? That would help in giving you a bit more info, and pics really should be posted of any rifle. If for no other reason so that we can look at them ;)

My preference in sidehammers is to use black powder exclusively. Like 10ga I have found that the old 1gr per caliber is not only a good start, but often a reasonable target load.

[405]

"Recently read the fall/winter edition of Muzzeloader(?) and there was a picture of what appeared to be a Hakens with a rear tang. Does anyone know who makes these for the Hawkens?"

If you are asking about a tang sight... probably quite a few around that can work. You'll likely have to drill and tap one or two holes in the tang for the sight base. Then find a staff angle that is reasonably close to the tang angle on the gun. Anything close will work. Then make sure that the staff and base of the sight are in a grip comfortable position on the tang. But, before you get there you should get the thing to shooting straight wtih the barrel mounted sights. Usually they were/are patched roundball guns. Can't go wrong with real blackpowder and patched roundballs.

[Charlie Sometimes]

Tons of various style tangs and other parts on E-Blah- search "blackpowder" that should show you everything there that you might need. You can post on the "want to Buy" thread here, too. Works a little slow sometimes, but you just have to be patient and bump it every now and then.

I prefer real black powder and don't use the substitutes- but those may be easier to locate, in some areas it's seasonal for all of them, too. I like my Hawkens and Renegades, too.

[northmn]

The TC Hawken had a tang sight made by TC just for the rifle, they may be drilled for it?? After much swearing at phoney powders I use only black, especially since I now shoot mostly flintlocks as none of the phoneys work in a flintlock. There have been several copies of the TC "Hawken" through the years and your kit could be the real thing or one of them. Almost all had a 1-48 inch twist and comprimise rifling so that they could be used with patched round ball or maxi-ball type slugs. A TC Hawken will usually shoot very well with 50 grains of 3f for plinking and about 70-80 for a deer load with round ball (490 and 015 patch or so). Some like more. If I recall their recommended maximum was 110 grains of 2f.

Northmn

[DeadWood]

TC Hawken, .50Caliber. Doesn't say what the twist is but will do some research on it. From what i dug out of the box and recall, I had shot mostly round balls(still have almost full box) and purchased Buffalo Bullet co. 245gr. slugs to hunt with but never got the chance. Also had some sabbots i must have tried, believe they were the "in thing" when i was involved with her....

[docone31]

Here is a good tang sight for the Hawken.
http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/product/standard-item.jsp?_DARGS=/cabelas/en/common/catalog/item-link.jsp_A&_DAV=MainCatcat602007-cat200004&id=0009949210162a&navCount=1&podId=0009949&parentId=cat200004&masterpathid=&navAction=push&catalogCode=IK&rid=&parentType=index&indexId=cat601233&hasJS=true
I plan on getting one once funds loosen up in our shop.

[northmn]

Looks like a factory model. The barrel will have a 1-48 "comprimise" twist and rifling. They shoot pretty good. Lot of deer have been taken with about 70 grains of 3f and a round ball, also with maxi ball. I prefer round ball but slugs do work.

Northmn

[DeadWood]

"The Holy Black" will work. I prefer the real stuff. Swiss, Goex, etc... "

I was using Pyrodex. Could everyone educate me a little on the "real stuff"? How its different than Pyrodex or 777 and pro's vs. con's if any.

thanks

"the holy black" is that a brand name or just refrence to "real" blackpowder?

[DeadWood]

Here is a good tang sight for the Hawken.
http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/product/standard-item.jsp?_DARGS=/cabelas/en/common/catalog/item-link.jsp_A&_DAV=MainCatcat602007-cat200004&id=0009949210162a&navCount=1&podId=0009949&parentId=cat200004&masterpathid=&navAction=push&catalogCode=IK&rid=&parentType=index&indexId=cat601233&hasJS=true
I plan on getting one once funds loosen up in our shop.

thats what i'm looking for!! thanks

[Bullshop]

FYI
We used the design program at Mountain Molds to design a conicle especially for the 1/48" twist.
It is listed at our site with the ML designs.
BIC/BS

[northmn]

Pros and cons on the real stuff. Pros BP ignites better in a traditional firearm. Example it can be used in flintlocks where the others cannot. I get better accuracy with BP and more reliabiltiy. It is also the original powder and is what was used. Pyrodex is considered by many to be more corrosive than black powder. I can get a pound of BP cheaper than the other stuff. Cons: Availability? I can order 5 pounds of BP from Grafs for less than $20 per pound through Grafs, but it does cost. You can buy some form of sub about any place including Walmart. Cleanup? Some do cleanup a little easier but BP can be cleaned up with water and really is not all that bad although you either love or hate the smell. When you clean make sure the barrel is dry and tehn oil it. It is a good idea to recheck in a day or two and see if any rust has appeared. Good idea with any phoney powder as well as black. As to wiping between shots. I know of some shooters that use a tight ball patch combo and liquid lubes like Lehigh Valley or MinkOil and shoot more than 20 shots without wiping with BP. But they do use a tight patch combo and that type of lube. a looser patch may require more wiping.

Northmn

[KCSO]

T/C made a nice peep sight for their "Hawken" rifle but it has not been available for a number of years. Track of th eWolf has, or had a copy of this sight at one time. In addition Lyman made a peep sight to fit the holes drilled and tapped on the T/C rifle.

[Geraldo]

T/C made a nice peep sight for their "Hawken" rifle but it has not been available for a number of years. Track of th eWolf has, or had a copy of this sight at one time. In addition Lyman made a peep sight to fit the holes drilled and tapped on the T/C rifle.

If I understand KCSO's post correctly I have all three of these type of sights.

The TC hunting tang sight in the Cabelas link works very well. The aperture that comes with it has a very small hole, which I drill just a bit larger, but you could also leave it out and use the sight as a ghost ring. The down side to this sight is that it has rough adjustments for windage. Once sighted in it is a great sight.

The tang sight that TC no longer makes is a ladder sight. I've got one on a TC .50 Hawken along with a globe front, which make sort of a loose powder Quigley rifle. Again, the windage adjustment is not finely adjustable.

I also have a Lyman again combined with a globe front. The Lyman has the best adjustments of any of them, but is larger than the TC hunting sight.

[northmn]

The old ladder tang sigh tfor the TC ahd problems with windage as it adjusted in an arc whcih meant that when you changed windage you also got a slight change in elevation. The top BPC sights that fit on the Sharps and others don't do that but also cost around $300+ .

DP

[alleyyooper]

T/C tang peep on a 1976 T/C kit Hawkins.Last I knew williams gun sight In Davison Mi still had one hanging on the wall for $25.00.
On my 76 model no drilling was required.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v295/oldgrumpy/guns%20shooting%20and%20hunting/Dapeepshow.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v295/oldgrumpy/guns%20shooting%20and%20hunting/hawkins.jpg


:D Al

[DeadWood]

T/C tang peep on a 1976 T/C kit Hawkins.Last I knew williams gun sight In Davison Mi still had one hanging on the wall for $25.00.
On my 76 model no drilling was required.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v295/oldgrumpy/guns%20shooting%20and%20hunting/Dapeepshow.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v295/oldgrumpy/guns%20shooting%20and%20hunting/hawkins.jpg


:D Al

Any chance your there next time you can verify?

[alleyyooper]

williamsgun sight.
http://www.williamsgunsight.com/

They have 800 number and are open Sundays.

:D Al

[dualsport]

On the slim chance anybody here doesn't know you can get black powder delivered TYD from a place like Graf's.

[buckweet]

On the slim chance anybody here doesn't know you can get black powder delivered TYD from a place like Graf's.

after driving all the way to mexico missouri, to get powder from graf;s... in a chevy metro, no heater [defrost barly worked], raining, fog. top speed in metro was 60. blew right front tire.
jack stripped out,

spare had cords showing.

had to pick car up by brutal strength, [ my back hurts now]

barly was able to get spare back on, cross threadded the 1st lug nut.

took all day, and 360 miles. and half cooked burger at micky dees in jefferson city.

NEXT TIME I NEED POWDER I'LL BUY OVER THE WEB !!!!!

[twotoescharlie]

midsouth probably has the TC peep cheaper than Cabelas or Brownnells

TTC

[DeadWood]

midsouth probably has the TC peep cheaper than Cabelas or Brownnells

TTC

thank you $13 cheaper!! every dollar counts today

[MT Gianni]

My TC hawken is from a kit in 79. It is a 50 and liked 60 gr under a rb for targets and 90 gr under a TC Maxi-ball for hunting. It does fair with the REAL Lee 270? gr but likes the heavier maxi better.
I bought an adaptor to use a sr primer instead of a cap. They sold for less than caps, were easier to get and more reliable, repriming was longer though. I use pyrodex RS or 3f.

[alleyyooper]

With a hasmat fee.

:D Al