Another Slug Shooting Failure!

[longbow]

Well, I seem to be writing the book on what not to do.

I finally got out to try the new ribbed Brenneke style slug I made from one of my finned core moulds.

They cast nice which is good. They look great which is also good but they did not shoot well!

The slug weighs 645 grs. as cast in ACWW and by the time the five 0.125" nitro card wads are attached it is 750 grs.

They were loaded over 29 grs. of Blue Dot, a plastic gas seal and a small scoop of Cream 'O Wheat between the gas seal and nitro card wads.

Hulls were Fiocchi 2 3/4" low base.

10 rounds all shot from a Browning BPS with I/C choke smoothbore slug barrel.

Recoil was pretty severe and ejection was sticky ~ I really should not have shot them all. I was surprised that the recoil was so severe and especially the extraction being sticky as the load of Blue Dot is not a heavy charge.

Accuracy was very poor, I was lucky to keep them on a 2' x 3' piece of paper at 50 yards!

I managed to recover one slug that was sitting on top of the snow at the 100 meter berm.

It obviously cocked as it met the forcing cone since 3 ribs are compressed at the nose on one side and 3 at the base on the other side. Not sure why that would happen and I certainly did not expect it since there is a long bearing surface and the ribbed hollow base slugs previously cast in this mould did not cock. They suffered only from flaring distorted skirts as most of my hollow base slugs have. Filled or unfilled and thick or thin skirts, almost all hollow base slugs crushed or flared or both.

Also, the screw holding the basewads on poked up through the nose on this one which couldn't do much but hurt accuracy. Maybe leaving out the plastic gas seal or punching it and screwing to the wad column would allow the wads to compress without ramming the screw through the slug.

Wider ribs may help with more bearing surface but I am still surprised at these results.

Next test will be with a lighter slug of 500 to 550 grs. (well, maybe 600 grs. assembled) and wider ribs. If that doesn't show promise I am going back to round balls in smoothbore and working on a slow twist rifled choke tube for round balls and slugs!

One day I will have a target with an actual group I can post!

Longbow

[Blammer]

I'd try the wider ribs first. Most factory stuff I see has very wide ribs.

[SuperBlazingSabots]

Greetings Longbow if I were you I would increase the # of ribs for better support at launch! I think your ribs are too far apart, go from 6 rib design to 9 rib design.
Ajay Madan
www.PreciousVideoMemories.Com

[yondering]

Longbow, what is the purpose of the ribs? Brenneke slugs have angled ribs, to (supposedly) cause the slug to spin in flight from air resistance. The ribs on your slug appear to be straight though.

Couple things I'd try if it were my project:
- Use WDWW or HTWW for a harder slug (to resist deformation of the ribs) and to keep the card wad base straight without distorting the slug base.
- Eliminate the cream of wheat. That alone may be causing the high pressure problems, it can pack up tight and raise pressures.
- Try again with a lower charge, no cream of wheat, and/or some extra cushion in place of one or more nitro cards. Lower pressure may help a lot.

Anybody know what the slug ID is of the Brenneke slugs? Are they full bore diameter, or smaller?

[longbow]

The ribs are to allow the slug to compress easily through a choke should it run into one ~ like a Brenneke.

I agree they are a little thin and will be fattened to about 1/8".

This mould started out life as a "finned" slug mould as did two others. One has 1/8" fins, this one has 3/32" fins (now ribs) and the last one is thin at 1/16".

I tried the 1/8" finned slug about a year ago and posted results. The problem was that the fins collapsed even when loaded over a cushion wad and moderate loads.

I tried oven heat treating which stopped the fins from collapsing (I recovered a couple) but accuracy was poor.

Next I machined out the finned core to make a ribbed hollow base. Started thin and filled with hot melt glue but skirts flaired even loaded over cushion wads. Tried oven heat treating again but the skirts fractured then so I thickened up the skirt to 1/8" + ribs so pretty good support. Skirts still flaired so got thickened again!

Even the thickest skirts flaired and I did not want to have to oven heat treat all my slugs so decided to go the Brenneke route ~ solid with attached wads so no skirt to flair.

What surprised me here is that the same slug/same ribs in hollow base did not cock in the barrel so I figured thin as they are, there was enough bearing surface and especially with such a long and well supported slug/wad. Wrong again!

Anyway, I will fatten these up or machine the 1/8 in finned core to be a ribbed solid and try again.

The main goals of the ribs are to:

- Allow a slightly oversize slug to swage to bore size ~ so tight (no rattle)
- Allow the slug to be shot through a choke if it meets one
- To reduce bore friction through limited contact.

Brenneke uses ribs for the same purpose. Brenneke's should be nominal bore diameter ~ at least the traditional old style Brennekes. They do not fit into a shotcup.

Corbin has a finned slug design swaged from pure lead but I do not know how it launches without collapsing fins unless the loads is light.

Here are links to my previous tests and the Corbin slug for reference if you haven't been following my "Hot to not get good accuracy" tests:

http://www.corbins.com/slugs.htm
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=62549
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=60196
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=50599

So far the most consistent and predictable results I have gotten with smoothbore are with round balls! Accuracy isn't fantastic but it is dependable at 3" to 4" at 50 yards. My goal has been to get something under 6" at 100 yards and hopefully more like 4" at 100.

As you can see, I have tried a number of slugs bought, from commercial moulds, home made moulds, factory loaded and about every combination I can think of. So far, consistent accuracy has eluded me.

The best results I have had are with:

- Brenneke (factory Brenneke's)
- AQ slugs home loaded
- Gualandi DGS slugs (even those distorted and one went sideeway through a tight group at 50 yards)
- Rapine 730550 did well on one outing but I could not repeat the success
- home made TC hollow base (thick skirt) in a shotcup has done quite well on some tests so further work with shotcups is in order maybe a component issue
- a couple of styles of factory Foster slugs shave shot well for me

It isn't too hard to get decent accuracy to 50 yards or so but beyond that is the challenge ~ at least for me! I know there are people doing better with smoothbores but so far I am not one of them.

I haven't given up yet though!

Longbow

[turbo1889]

So, do I understand you correctly, longbow, that the HB slugs with straight rifling did shoot okay without the Brenneke attached wad it was just that you were having problems with the skirts being smashed, crushed, shattered, etc? Do you believe the accuracy problems were primarily the result of these problems encountered with the skirts or the design itself (HB version) ?

Reason I ask is because I've had a smooth bore slug mold idea rattling around in my head for quite a while and even have a pair of oversize blank blocks on the shelf that have been somewhat set aside for the 10ga. and 12ga. version. The design is very similar to what you are experimenting with, only they are intended to be cut in standard "two halves" mold rather then your push out style mold. The longitudinal straight rifling grooves (for all the same reasons as yours) would be cut in each mold half with a ball end mill cutter after the main cavity bore had been cut.

Screen shot of the basic design drawn up in my CAD program attached below (bit file image zip compressed). The purple lines are reference lines and the straight ones on the cross section profiles for each gauge size represent the mold parting line. Blue lines are the HB profiles.

[yondering]

Even the thickest skirts flaired and I did not want to have to oven heat treat all my slugs so decided to go the Brenneke route ~ solid with attached wads so no skirt to flair.

FYI, the Brenneke slugs I've had really good results with are not solid, they do have a hollow base with a center pin to attach the base wad. I can't remember which slugs those are, but still have a box so I can check tonight.
Don't know if that helps or not.

Have you tried the Lyman 525gr sabot slug? I've had better results from these, in a smoothbore, than with round balls, although both are acceptable.

[sargenv]

Would they be the S&B slugs? I think those have a hollow base and a basewad attached.. they look a lot like the Brenneke slugs.. and were inexpensive before the big ammo shortage.

[diehard]

The Fiocchi and Rio slugs shoot three shots touching at 50 yards from my new Mossberg (cylinder bore). Both are an attached wad to a hollowed lead base just like the Brenneke. Both have thick diagonal ribs just like the Brenneke (but for some reason both shoot better that the Brennek KO's do---must be the velocity). At over 1500fps they really pack a wallop, but they shoot so well I use them as my "control" slugs to see if my scope is sighted in.

[Dixie Slugs]

What was the diameter of the slug vs the BPS bore? Isn't the BPS overbore?. My notes call for the BPS to be .741"??????...James

[longbow]

Yes, I know the Brenneke's are not true solids. They have a short skirt and center pin but much beefier that a typical Foster skirt.

I am not sure why I have had so much problem with skirt flairing but I think it has to do with the somewhat undersize skirt not getting enough support. I did have some ribbed hollow base slugs bell out at the base and crush ribs. Obviously not enough bearing surface.

A full bore hollow base can only swell to bore diameter and get shorter and fatter. I have seen lots of that too. My Lyman Foster (0.705" so under bore diameter) swells up to fill the bore and generally it does it unevenly so accuracy is obviously not good. Paper patching to bore size helps but I still get flyers.

I have not tried the Lyman 525 sabot slug but did recover one someone else shot and it also was shorter than it started out by quite a bit.

I may have mentioned but I was surprised that some Gualandi DGS slugs distorted quite badly at the base of the skirt. They shot pretty well but they really did distort. So it isn't just my home made slugs!

So, since I am using Blue Dot which is fairly slow for a shotgun powder and using moderate loads I have to assume that the pressure being generated is enough to make the slug yield. The only solution to that is to heat treat, add more lead at the skirt or lower pressure (well, slower pressure rise so longer acceleration). I figured the attached wad and solid slug would solve the more lead approach.

I still do since Brenneke does it. They also use very hard alloy and I would rather not have to heat treat all my slugs but will if I have to.

I know Ed Hubel gets around a lot of this by using very slow powders so gentle acceleration. However, I have been wanting to stay more or less within "normal" components and loading data. Not a crtiticism of Ed, he is doing amazing things! I am just more conservative I guess.

Turbo ~ my take is that I need more bearing surface and possibly heat treated alloy. I did get the finned slugs with 1/8" fins to work without the fins collapsing by heat treating them. In fact I recovered one from 300 yards that had skipped along the sand (with some snow covering) and you could load it again! However, I did not succeed in getting accuracy. That's why I went hollow base but skirt flaring is steering me to solid with attached wad.

I have had some really good results with thick skirted hollow base slugs but again, I also got skirt flairing sometimes (I recovered a lot of slugs out of snow). Maybe component selection would fix that and I will do some more work on that.

I am thinking the ribbed solid with wider ribs and attached wad is the way to go and they are pretty easy to make as well. I will try the 1/8" ribs next but in a shorter lighter slug of around 550 grs.

Your mould looks good to me but you might want to have a larger radius rib or ribs with a bit of a flat on them to increase bearing surface. Also, since you are planning a split mould you could easily add a band at the bottom of the skirt to help keep it from flairing at the highest stress point. It would shift weight back some but it would provide better support too.

You will have to watch rib angles for mould opening clearances on the ribs using a split mould.

I hope to have the wider rib version of my mould ready shortly and will have another go. I have burned up a lot of powder and flung lots of lead so far. Eventually it has to pay off! I have been learning and having fun as well so while the slug shooting didn't go well, I did have a great day at the range and turned in some good groups with my .303 and .44.

Oh, one of the other things that came to mind a while ago is velocity or more specifically transonic velocity and where it occurs in the slugs flight. When I looked up some ballistics for Winchester slugs it looks as though they go transonic at around 60 yards. That means lots of buffeting. This could be another factor for some slugs that are launched just into supersonic range that go transonic on the way to the target. If they stay supersonic to 100 yards maybe accuracy would be better? Or if launched subsonic then no buffeting?

Not saying that would have helped me in this test just that it may be a factor to think about since it really doesn't seem too difficult to get reasonable 50 yard accuracy but beyond is a different story (well, for me anyway).

So that's it for now.

Longbow

[turbo1889]

. . . . Turbo ~ . . . . Your mould looks good to me but you might want to have a larger radius rib or ribs with a bit of a flat on them to increase bearing surface. Also, since you are planning a split mould you could easily add a band at the bottom of the skirt to help keep it from flairing at the highest stress point. It would shift weight back some but it would provide better support too.

You will have to watch rib angles for mould opening clearances on the ribs using a split mould. . . .

On my CAD drawings for the ribs I was using the smallest (in 1/32" increments) ball end mill cutter size that would produce a clean separation on the outside corners edge of the two ribs on each mold half that are not on the mold parting line. Considering the major and minor diameters I had chosen for each slug size which are basically 0.740” major and 0.660” minor for the 12ga. and approximate scaling thereof for the other gauge sizes with a little bit of adjustment as I saw fit to control other factors such as skirt thickness or the fact that highly constrictive chokes are practically non-existent in the less popular gauges. I got the basic idea many, many years ago from a guy who was using a 6-point mechanic’s socket as a slug mold.

If I remember correctly he said that if you tried several brand names of both 5/8" SAE and 16mm metric six point socket you could find one that would produce hex shaped slugs that were about 0.74" from point to point. He used a length of 3/8" square rod clamped in a vise to produce the hollow base by pushing the 3/8" socket square drive hole down onto the square rod clamped in the vise. This made it so his square profile hollow base was the exact same depth each time and then he pored lead into the open top end. Thus there was no sprue cut and the nose shape was mainly flat with a slight curve from the surface tension of the lead then he would pull the socket up off the length of square rod with a pair of big pliers and flip it over and use a screw-drive to push the slug out.

I think you get what I'm describing. Supposedly, they worked real well for him and swaged down just fine in a couple tightly choked guns he shot them through and he claimed paper plate accuracy at fifty paces. He was casting his of lead bird shot by weighing out the shot and melting it in a dipper using a hand held torch as the heat source which was also used to pre-heat his socket mold. By pre-measuring a weight of shot and melting the lead for each pore separately he could keep the weight and length of his slugs consistent.

To my knowledge most commercial lead bird shot is made of an alloy that's softer then plain old air cooled WW alloy but at the same time not near as soft as pure lead. I am trying to copy the basic idea of what he was doing only with a far more precise and easy to use conventional split halves casting mold. Like his my slugs on the points are over bore size about 0.01" for the large 12 & 10 gauges and this oversize amount is progressively decreased by the appropriate factor of scale for the smaller gauges. He claimed that this over bore size as cast dimension from point to point was essential for accuracy with his slugs so made and that if he used a socket which cast at 0.73” bore size or slightly less then accuracy dropped off considerably. He seemed to think that a squeeze fit was necessary. I don’t really see how it could hurt anything either considering that such a small surface areas needs to be swaged down in the forcing cone compared to a slug regular round that was similarly over-bore size. In fact I kind of wonder if the larger oversize initial diameter helps keep such a slug more in line with the bore while they pass through the over-size forcing cone section of a shotgun barrel and that is why there is an accuracy difference.

All this is assuming of course our original experimenter with his mechanic’s socket slug mold is on par with his work in this area. I knew him personally and he was a little bit of a crazy kind of guy - he didn’t think the same way other people or I think. He was one of those guys who was always thinking outside the box and probably couldn’t find the box if his life depended on it and had a “shattered” line of thought. He sort of jumped around to different non-related topics without skipping a beat and without any normal connection words or phrases like it was completely normal when you tried to have a conversation with him. Don’t get me wrong he wasn’t dangerous or anything but it was obvious to anyone that his brain wasn’t wired the same way as the rest of us. Good guy to get crazy or outside the box ideas from though, also an excellent guy to get to take you bird hunting. If you could tolerate his quirks going bird hunting with him was like having an expert hired guide. Water-fowl or upland-game he knew when, where, and how to get them with surprising ease. Who knows maybe it was because he could think like they do.



. . . . Oh, one of the other things that came to mind a while ago is velocity or more specifically transonic velocity and where it occurs in the slugs flight. When I looked up some ballistics for Winchester slugs it looks as though they go transonic at around 60 yards. That means lots of buffeting. This could be another factor for some slugs that are launched just into supersonic range that go transonic on the way to the target. If they stay supersonic to 100 yards maybe accuracy would be better? Or if launched subsonic then no buffeting? . . .

From my experiments with the Lyman 525 wad-slug you are absolutely correct. It is my conclusion that when fired from a smooth bore gun without the benefit of gyro stability from the spin imparted by a rifled slug bore the Lyman 525 slug is only stable and will continue to fly straight and true nose first at super-sonic velocity. Once it drops into the trans-sonic range or below it starts to tumble. Thus it is my conclusion that the accurate range of the Lyman 525 slug from a smooth bore is limited by the muzzle velocity at which it is launched which determines how far down range it will slow down enough to enter the trans-sonic velocity range and loose its accuracy. Of course there are limitations to how fast the slug can be driven from a normal barrel length and with standard components before structural failure of either the slug, other components in the load (such as the wad petals), and/or the gun but more muzzle velocity means greater accurate range with the Lyman 525 slug. You can’t just lobe them like artillery at low velocity and compensate for drop and still get accuracy like you can with more conventional round ball, foster, and attached base wad slugs. For other slug designs like the Lee drive key wad-slug the differences between sub-sonic, trans-sonic, and super-sonic flight produce other affects. The Lee slug is at its best accuracy at purely sub-sonic velocities from muzzle to target - those you can lob over extended range like artillery and get reasonable accuracy, better accuracy in fact then shooting at the same distance with loads that are purely super-sonic from muzzle to target with the same slug.

I have yet to run across a slug that’s most accurate in the trans-sonic velocity range and I doubt I will due to the destabilizing effects that dropping below back into sub-sonic flight seems to have on almost all projectiles but who knows it might be possible. There is definitely a significant difference between the flight of drag stabilized projectiles (smooth bore shotgun slugs) in all three velocity zones and different designs do seem to have an accuracy preference for either sub-sonic or super-sonic flight and I would be willing to bet that with closer study under aerospace laboratory like conditions it will be found to be true that different slug designs are better then others at maintaining accuracy when passing through the trans-sonic flight velocity range.

[longbow]

Turbo:

Just a short response for now ~ I need my beauty rest.

I think you and your friend are correct on the oversize thing. My slug may be a little too small as well as needing more bearing surface. I can easily add wider ribs and will do that . Increasing diameter will require a new mould but may be the answer.

I think from past experience with similar bore size "lobed" slugs I made that there is enough foced and/or vibration going on in the barrel to squeeze a bore size slug to a rattle fit. If the slug starts out a little oversize then this does not seem to happen. Maybe all the damage happens at the forcing cone and the larger slug still has enough meat to swage into the barrel where a bore size slug gets beaten a little small? Don't know for sure but that seems to be the effect in my experience.

I also plan on making a wad slug of this style too so it can be a tight fit to barrel in the wad. I have had some promising results doing this before with similar slugs.

Longbow

[Multigunner]

I'll certainly be looking in on the development of slugs here.

I've had no reason to reload shotshells in the past, but I recently picked up a Maverick Bolt Action 12 ga just for the heck of it, intending to hunt with buckshot, then found that state game regs had changed and buckshot was no longer legal for Deer here, slugs only.

I probably won't be shooting the Maverick much anyway, but would like to find a good accurate slug and lay in a stock of loaded shells for it should I decide to start using it.

[shotman]

LB try filling the base of the slug with flour /wax something that will not let wad compress into the hollow base. that will make it stay straight leaving the barrel

[Multigunner]

I wonder if the egg shaped slug and cup as used in some early rifled Needle Guns would work well in a smoothbore?
They used a wooden cup, but some sort of plastic could be substituted.
If wood is feasible then the cups could be made pretty easily.

Egg shaped projectiles can stabilize in flight fairly well at low velocities.

PS
Found this

No. 17,886.—John L. Mcconnel, of Jacksonville, Illinois.—Improvement in Projectiles for Smooth-Bored Guns.—Patent dated July 28, 1857.—The nature of this invention will be understood by reference to the claim and engravings.

Claim.—The improvement of the projectiles known as " eggshaped," which consists in so grooving the surface, as described, that, when discharged from any smooth-bored gun, with the larger end foremost, the combined effects of the centre of gravity being in front, and the grooves (acted upon by atmospheric pressure) shall give to the projectile an accuracy of flight when so fired, similar to that produced by the rifle, and approximating thereto.



Might be worth looking into.

[Greg5278]

Kent, good to see you are still working on the slugs. The wad column looks suspect in the pictures. The wad looks like the pressed newsprint type. You would be better off with waxed card wads, and a wased fiber wad in the middle. If you needed to take up space over the gas seal, use Cork ot 100% wool wads under the slug assembly. I think the slug is compressing unevenly based on the pics.
Greg

[SuperBlazingSabots]

Hello Longbow may I add! "Another step towards a successful project."
Wish you all the best.
Ajay Madan
www.PreciousVideoMemories.Com

[longbow]

Greg:

Those are nitro card wads drilled and screwed to the slug. It looks to me like the base of the slug is fine other than the uneven compression of the ribs.

Most of the damage comes from hitting frozen ground then skipping about 50 yards into a frozen sand berm. The compression on the ribs is shiny though so definitely happened in the barrel.

I used a small scoop of COW between the slug and plastic gas seal to keep the screw head from poking through the seal. Hard as they are nitro card wads do compress a bit. By the way, the gas seals recovered were perfect, none burned or blown so that part worked.

Dense felt wads might be better than the nitro card wads but again, I am trying to make do ~ probably a mistake!

I note that the old style Brenneke's used a leather or plastic washer under the slug then really hard felt/fiber then another leather or plastic washer with nothing between it and the powder so the wads could compress a bit without the screw punching through a seal below.

Shotman:

This slug is virtually solid with just a screw hole in the middle. The problem isn't wad pushing into the slug with this one though it has been with hollow base slugs.

I have filled hollow bases with cornmeal, lube and hot melt glue... not all at once you understand. So far anything I have tried with hollow base slugs has caused flaring of the skirt unless the slug was a tight bore size slug so it had nowhere to go. Well, not quite ~ I did have some success with oven heat treated hollow base slugs over moderate loads.

While I complain about poor accuracy, I have had some pretty good groups of 2" to 3" at 50 yards with several combinations of components. The groups have not been consistently repeatable though (usually fliers) and have not held up accuracy for longer range. So, I could accept the 50 to maybe 70 yard range limit for accuracy but the goal is consistent 6" groups at 100 yards and prefereably smaller (but at this point I'll take 6" with a smile).

James:

Long time no hear!

Yes, you bring up a good point. The slugs cast at 0.730"/0.731" and I have been shooting them in my cylinder bore gun with 0.730" bore. I decided to shoot the Browning this time but I have not checked the bore recently and forget what the diameter it is but if memory serves it is around 0.730"... but I will check to confirm and should have done that instead of randomly swapping guns.

The first step for re-test is to widen the ribs to 1/8" or more and try again. Since I can cast hollow base or solid with the same mould I will try hollow base with wider ribs too. The skirt will be quite thick though it flared (belled?) with the thin ribs maybe wider ribs giving more support will solve that.

If nothing else, all this testing is getting me out of the house and out to the range.

I said it before... if Wilhelm Brenneke could do it I can do it (I hope!).

Longbow

[Greg5278]

Kent,
I did finally get the hollow base version of the Truncated Cone slug mold in .660" diameter. It casts about .6585-.659" in Wheelweght with 2% Tin. I shimmed the base pin, so I can have the weight at 475-480 Gr and the other at 580grains.
It fits just fine in the CSD wads as we discussed. I think it should be a real winner, in both rifled and smoothbore barrels. It looks like the best load will be using the wad slit to discard at the muzzle like a Sabot. The CSD wads are much tougher material, and thicker than the wads used by the Lyman Sabot slug. Sorry I don'y have any pics yet.
Greg

[longbow]

Here are my latest revisions to the finned/ribbed slug mould.

I widened the rib slots in the core to 1/8" to get more bearing surface then used the slotted core to cast up some hollow base slugs and some "solids" with just a screw hole. I then machined solids shorter to weigh around 500 grs since the last ones were too heavy for my liking at about 750 grs.

The hollow base weigh 620 grs +/-.

The shortened solids weigh 510 grs. as cast/machined then 595 grs. +/- with attached base wad.

I will have to check total height of the attached wad slugs in the hulls but I think I will have to use some fiber wads to bring the wad column up to a good crimp height. I would rather have the whole length in the slug both for longer bearing surface but also to avoid having anything but powder gases pushing on the base.

I will test as is though.

If the skirts of the hollow base stand up, they may do okay as the balance point is about 1/4 back (just back of the start of the ribs). So far skirt failure has been my enemy!

I am hoping there is enough bearing surface on the attached wad slugs now though the lead is a little shorter than I wanted. I may take another core and machine it so the ribs are deeper and body smaller diameter so longer for the same weight.

With any luck I will be shooting this weekend.

Greg:

I would like to see some photos of those hollow base slugs, they sound good. I like the weight too. I am not going for real heavyweights. If mine work out I will lighten them to around 500 to maybe 550 grs.

[yondering]

Well, even if they don't shoot well, they look pretty cool. Looks like the splined end of an axle shaft.

[longbow]

Well, I was hoping to either change the title of this thread or start another with a happier title but...

I got out shooting today but results were much the same as the last trip which this thread is about!

I took out:

- 525 gr. hollow base wad slugs paper patched to tight fit with wad & slug in the barrel at roughly 0.680" PP slug
- 620 gr. thick skirted ribbed hollow base as in the post above
- Brenneke style at about 600 grs. for the assembled attached wad slug as in the post above

I have had some good groups with the 525 gr. hollow base wad slugs before but I have also had problems with distorted skirts too. This time I made sure they were well supported and over a cushion. Skirts still belled and accuracy was poor. Possibly oven heat treating would help. These weren't filled but last time I filled them and they still belled. Holes in the target were round but large groups.

The 620 gr. ribbed hollow base were thick skirted and ribbed as well. Balance point seemed good but I wasn't expecting too much from them so the poor accuracy didn't really disappoint me. I gave them a good supporting wad column but still had skirt distortion and wads pushing into the skirt. Looks like several tumbled through the target.

I had hopes for the Brenneke but it let me down. The holes at 50 yards were perfectly round and the ribs cut nice splined holes in the paper but accuracy was not good so must be either poor launch or problems with the attached wad. I suspect the attached wad distorted but I didn't recover any so don't have anything look at. They must have flown straight though to punch such nice holes so...?

These are all shot from cylinder bore smoothbore.

My next plan (no, I haven't given up quite yet) is a Brenneke wad slug. My thinking is that the shotcup willl help with guidance and cushioning, no hollow base to distort or blow wads into and easier to load than making up a wad column of gas seal and hard card wads.

I will also give the full bore Brenneke another go and see if I can get some dense felt or something more resilient than nitro card wads far the basewad. The old traditional Brennekes used a very dense felt like basewad.

If that all doesn't work it is back to the good 'ol round ball for me. I have gotten some good groups out to 50 yards and generally predictable accuracy. Not so god for long range accuracy though. So far consistent accuracy at any range with hollow base slugs has eluded me.

Oh well, now I have a good excuse to head back to the range anyway!

Longbow