cleaning between shots ?

[enfield]

what do you guys do as far as cleaning the bore between shots . do you clean after a certain number of shots or not at all? I was shooting the martini and the snider on the weekend and I would run a patch down the barrel after 2 or 3 shots and it seemed to get pretty dirty. maybe this is normal, I don't shoot enuff BP to know for sure. my loads had about 63gr 2f and 32gr BP/COW 50/50 mix to go to the base of the neck and i use a card disc grease cookie of bees wax, crisco & olive oil & another card disc. does my loading sound like a messy one? also does anyone have any load suggestions for filling these big converted 24 gage cases ? my boolits are the .459 Lee 405gr and the Lee .575 (enlarged to .590 ) thanks for the help, Ward.

[Southern Son]

Enfield,
When it comes to cleaning, you need to think about what your going to do with the rifle. In Long Range competitions, most of the shooters these days are wipping between shots. Usually it is two damp patches, followed by one dry. What the patches are damp with can be anything from Windex with vinegar to moose milk. Some competitors will use a blow tube to soften fouling. After firing, they use the blow tube to blow moist air down the barrel and this will let them shoot more rounds before things start getting choked up. I have developed a load that will let me shoot without wipping or blow tubing between shots, the trade off is that the load is not nearly as accurate as is needed for long range competitions. When I shoot in competitions (not nearly often enough), I will use a load that I have to blow tube between shots.

I have not heard of mixing Black Powder and COW before. I have heard of straight COW over the powder to fill the case, but not mixing. The COW cannot be helping to control your fouling (what does COW burn like, I have never used it for anything). The grease cookie you are using should help you keep you fouling soft and let you shoot without having to clean for longer. What brand powder are you using? If the BP/COW mix is to reduce the amount of powder you are using to reduce the recoil, have you tried using F grade? With reguard to filling the 24ga cases, if they are straight walled, you could just use more cards or a thicker grease cookie.

Others with more experience will jump in with their ideas. I think that Buckshot has a fair bit of experience with the Snyder, and MartiniBelgan with the 577/450.

[Boz330]

I don't have any experience with the Snyder but I shoot the Martini as you are loading it. The biggest problem is the 8" of tapered barrel in front of the chamber. Since you are cleaning from the muzzle it is hard to get it clean without a full bore cleaning job. For extended fire I use a blow tube and clean when accuracy goes in the dumper.
The .459 boolits are considerably under size for the grooves if you are shooting a true Martini Henry. The barrel starts at .468 and tapers to .465. I have had good luck with a 385gr .462 mould cast from a soft tin lead mix. It slugs up quite nicely and shoots right at 2MOA at 100yd.
Southern Son, the bottle neck case of the MH will increase pressures dramatically with just COW on top of the powder. With a mixture of 50/50 COW & 3F BP the COW is consumed in the ignition process eliminating the potential of blockage at the neck and subsequent pressure rise. I have heard this theory questioned as well but I have been using it for 5 years now with no ill effects and accuracy is more than acceptable. Best load I have ever used accuracy wise was Cannon grade at a full case, but it only holds for about 5 rounds and then you have to clean the gun and it is a mess. Much dirtier that the other method.

Bob

[August]

Some of the boolits I shoot carry lots-o-lube and some not-so-much.

I clean some after two shots and some after eight. Ten without cleaning is the goal, and holy grail of this business as far as I'm concerned. I've gotten there on cold days.

[NickSS]

I do not fire your caliber rifles but I do shoot a lot of 45-70with straight black and I have used COW to make reduced BP loads. I do not mix BP with the COW. I put in the BP with a drop tube then drop in the cow also with a drop tube followed by a card wad they the bullet. I have never used a grease cookie but have thought of it. I use a blow tube between shots and have fired up to 70 rounds without cleaning or degradation of accuracy. Mostly when I am match shooting I clean after each stage as I have found out that if I leave my rifle site dirty for long periods of time it sometimes develops hard fouling that is difficult to clean and affects accuracy.

[Lead Fred]

Anytime you use black powder, cleaning between shots will be better than not.
A blow tube is a substitute for cleaning between shots.

Ive always used Thompson Center 1000+ lube, and have never had any fouling problem.

[enfield]

this is all good info, keep it coming !! I had no problems that made me think that fouling was an issue but i was wondering how much fouling was too much and how much difference there would be from the very first shot to a fouled shot to a moose milk swabbed shot. momma never told me there were so many variables in BPCR shooting. Ha.

[Hip's Ax]

I don't shoot the same caliber or rifles as you but my BP cartridge target rifles (45-70 and 45-90) get a patch of moose milk every shot. One wet patch and drop it out the front every shot. Its what my mentor does and I can't complain, I'm on my way to a master classification if I don't screw up my next mid range and long range match.

Our moose milk is 10:1 Tru Sol water soluable machinists oil and water. HTH

[Southern Son]

enfeild,
perhaps a PM to Buckshot will get some more 577 information from someone who has shot it. If you have had no issues with the fouling, then keep shooting. The only reason we worry about the fouling is cause accuracy has gone to pot. If you can keep hitting what you are shooting at, then keep shooting.

[Boz330]

I don't shoot the same caliber or rifles as you but my BP cartridge target rifles (45-70 and 45-90) get a patch of moose milk every shot. One wet patch and drop it out the front every shot. Its what my mentor does and I can't complain, I'm on my way to a master classification if I don't screw up my next mid range and long range match.

Our moose milk is 10:1 Tru Sol water soluable machinists oil and water. HTH

The problem with the Martini Henry and Snider is that you can't get a cleaning rod in from the rear, even if you take out the breach block.

Bob

[1874Sharps]

Bob,

I made a pull-through steel cable thingy so that I could clean from back to muzzle. The cable pulls the patch through on a hard rubber mandrel that fits the bore.

Hunstman,

There are different methods of loading and and shooting BP, often depending on the type of shooting one is doing, as Southern Son said. Many competitive shooters swab the bore between shots, but this is not practical for a hunter. With proper lube in proper amounts in a region with good humidity (or by using a blow tube) I have been able to shoot strings of 15-20 shots out of my 45-70 before accuracy degraded.

[martinibelgian]

There's an easier way - a flexible delrin cleaning rod will work just fine if you use a jag that's not too long. I shoot both military and match Martini's, up to now mostly with blowtubing - but wiping from the breech is perfectly possible indeed if you have the appropriate flexible cleaning rod.

[montana_charlie]

wiping from the breech is perfectly possible indeed if you have the appropriate flexible cleaning rod.
I have been thinking that very thing, but too ignorant of fact to make the assertion.

As to the wiping, itself...
Most of the BPCR paper patchers have gone to wiping between shots, and they like two damp patches followed by a dry...primarily to dry the chamber.
They like to spear the patches with a nylon brush...rather than use a jag.

CM

[1874Sharps]

I guess I keep calling wiping the bore "swabbing" from my days in the US Navy as a "Swabbie"!

[Hip's Ax]

Agreed, my 45-90 is a long range model and the stock comb and tang sight are completely in the way of the bore so I also use the flexible delrin cleaning rod to both wipe between shots and to clean the rifle after shooting.

[semtav]

Just curious cause I havent tried it yet, could you get by putting the rod thru from the muzzlle end, then putting the wet cloth on and pulling it back thru? Or does it have to be a tight fitting jag?

[bob208]

a bpcr fouls from the muzzle back. after a few shots look at the muzzle you should see streaks of lube on the muzzle that means you have enough lube. if not you are running out of lube in the barrel.

[herbert buckland]

There's an easier way - a flexible delrin cleaning rod will work just fine if you use a jag that's not too long. I shoot both military and match Martini's, up to now mostly with blowtubing - but wiping from the breech is perfectly possible indeed if you have the appropriate flexible cleaning rod.
could you give a litle mor information on the flexible rods,who makes them or how do you make them up ,i shoot a martini henry and a spencer 56-50 and would much prefer to clean from the breach

[montana_charlie]

It's easy to make your own delrin wiping rod if you buy a delrin rod (of appropriate diameter) from a hardware supplier. You even see listings for the material on eBay.

But here is a retail outlet for finished rods...
http://www.arizonasharpshooters.com/1794.html
CM

[Four Fingers of Death]

The big Martinis are not so prolific here, but the cadets are everywhere and a lot have a cleaning rod hole drilled in the back and a big screww on the side to drop the block oout easily.

[martinibelgian]

"The big Martinis are not so prolific here, but the cadets are everywhere and a lot have a cleaning rod hole drilled in the back and a big screww on the side to drop the block oout easily."

True, but only useful for the cleanup after shooting. I can guarantee you that you don't want to take out the innards after every shot if you want to wipe between shots, as with BP - and the original cadet action doesn't have the hole in the receiver.

[Four Fingers of Death]

The hole in the back of the action and the quick detach (usually knurled) take down screw are popular modiifications here is all I'm saying.