RCE Presses

[FORKLIFT352]

Looking at the Corbon press at 500.00 plus.....seemed to high for me to
start swaging.I know I could use a RCBS and sutch but when I want to
do something I like to get the best tools for the job.

So the RCE Sea girt at 249.00 and the Walnut Hill at 349.00 seem
like a good mix for price

Any thoughts???

[CWME]

I would like to get the Walnut hill press but not willing to wait the 2-4-6 or however many months it takes no matter how good they might be.

[ANeat]

From what Ive read and heard from others here whose opinion I trust the Walnut Hill is top notch.

I got on the waiting list, I figure Ill be playing with it for a lot of years, Ill wait a year if I have to

[FORKLIFT352]

I dident realize their would be waiting list.....
Im torn between the sea girt or the walnut hill.....HAhAHHAHAAhahahAa
Soooooo if I get the sea girt I would have to use their dyes?
Or could I use most any?

[ANeat]

With a dedicated swaging press what you get is better alignment, more pressure, less wear and tear.

Also the Walnut Hill has 2 settings on the stroke length where you can use it as a regular single stage reloading press, the Sea Girt does not have that feature


When you use dies for the press you utilize the feature of the ejection built into the press.


I would guess that you could also use something like the C&H dies as well.

[ANeat]

Here is a thread with some pics from Buckshot. He makes much of his stuff and uses a Walnut hill.

Anytime I need a little motivation/inspiration I look at the stuff Buckshot does8-)

http://www.castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=22347

[FORKLIFT352]

WOW^^^^^Im sold on the Wallnut hill....

[CWME]

Can you extrude wire on the Walnut hill or Corbin CSP-1? My shop press is back ordered for two and a half months. Might cancel that if I can make dies for one of these presses....

[AbitNutz]

I believe the Walnut Hill may be closer to never on delivery. I've attempted to get one for months and it's always something about being powder coated.

I certainly do not have enough trust or faith to pre-order one and pay for it upfront. However, I do continue to call and email and try to get one. Every time its been just 2 or 3 weeks and nothing ever happens.

[ANeat]

Ive had one ordered for 6+ months, He told me up front it would be at least that long.... my card has not been charged. He said he wont charge till its ready to ship.

Who knows, Ill be happy when/if it arrives

[CWME]

Hope it comes in soon ANeat.

[AbitNutz]

I have email from him 2 months ago saying it wold be 2 or 3 weeks. I wold guess that his orders are so small that he is at the mercy of any subs that he has to employ.

[FORKLIFT352]

You would think the sub's would be happy for the work....being at 10% unemployment.
I think Ill get the RCBS Rock Chucker and order the Walnut Hill.
Now the RCBS is recommended as a good light duty press right?

[chrisx1]

I ordered $1000+ from RCE including a WH press on......


.......wait for it......


......Jan 12 2008.


I have communicated regularly with Richard, never getting much more than "I'll be shipping in a couple of weeks."

We need to find another press. Richards aren't coming.

[Bullshop]

I ordered $1000+ from RCE including a WH press on......


.......wait for it......


......Jan 12 2008.


I have communicated regularly with Richard, never getting much more than "I'll be shipping in a couple of weeks."

We need to find another press. Richards aren't coming.

Ditto!!!!!
BIC/BS

[ANeat]

We need to find another press. Richards aren't coming.

Well dang, lets get some dimensions off of one and make our own

[richbug]

Well dang, lets get some dimensions off of one and make our own


That is sorta what I was thinking, a press isn't exactly rocket science.

[Willbird]

Now I'm into THAT idea :-). I have a Bridgeport mill out in the garage, and a lathe beside it :-).

[ANeat]

Now I'm into THAT idea :-). I have a Bridgeport mill out in the garage, and a lathe beside it :-).

Me to ;)

perhaps Buckshot can get us some dimensions off of his press???

[richbug]

Now I'm into THAT idea :-). I have a Bridgeport mill out in the garage, and a lathe beside it :-).

Mine are in opposite corners, flanked by drill press, band saw, mill drill...

My though would be to build a less glamorous machine, and at as low a cost as possible by using off the shelf parts or modified off the shelf(modified gr8 bolts for guides and pins).

I would also like to build in provision for air or hydraulic drive.

[scrapcan]

You will hear the same from those who buy form any of the swaging press makers. It is a market that could be open for the upstart, much like the making of bullet moulds.

One might have to be careful with the corbin or rce designs as they could be patented.

I have an old SAS swaging press that most likely is not covered at this time, unless it is covered under the corbin mightymite as it is the predecessor to that press. I also have a csp-1 press but the whole patent infringement and legal issues bothers me.

I also think that someone making dies we can afford would be nice. They most likely do not need to be precision bench rest dies that cost thousands of dollars as most of us need something to get started with.

[shooterg]

Blackmon's horizontal(like the old SAS?) press is reasonable and so are his dies, but he's way behind last I heard. His conversion approach to old RC could be done for the Lee Classic Cast maybe ? A kit with .224 dies would be a hit if Lee would make 'em !
Probably wouldn't work as well with .30 and larger jacketed bullets though.
For sure there are people on this board that could do it if they could make $$ !

[chrisx1]

I haven't studied it extensively, but the WH press looks like a pretty simple deal. I'm sure it's top quality, but I think it could be used as a starting point. Maybe we come up with some simpler design or something.
Looks to me that the two most complicated pieces are the ram (due to threading, etc) and the toggle (part where the handle attaches to the ram). They would both need some milling. The rest are pretty simple parts that we could take dimensions to the local machine shop and have them cut out in a day.
If all we did was distribute dimensions, would that be a violation of the patent?

If I had dimensions, I know I could have my local machine shop build this tomorrow. It might cost me $500, but at this point, I'm ready to spend it.

[CWME]

I definately think a more value priced setup is called for. I don't need bench rest .224 plinking rounds. I need to pick up the .22lr brass and turn that into afordable ammo. Spending $800 for the dies to make plinking ammo doesn't make sense.
I have 1 benchrest/F Class rifle. For that I will buy commercial jacketed bullets. For everything else I want to make the bullet affordably.

Crisx1 if you had a machine shop that would make these I think you could sell more than a few on here... I never took the plunge into swaging because of the wait and expense invloved.

[chrisx1]

How would we figure out if that press is patented?

I don't want to get into a nest of rattlesnakes here (patent violations), but I'm tired of waiting around.

[chrisx1]

One other option that I just thought about.

What if we approached Richard with a group buy? We get 10 or 20 sold and take that order to him. Maybe it would move us to the front of the line?

Just thinking out loud here.

[Bullshop]

So if you get the presses made then what? You wont be able to get any tooling for it.
I got a WH press from him a couple years ago but still have not gotten any dies from him.
All I got was a core swage die and a bunch of excuses.
Dave is expensive but he has ready to go what he offers, and he will return all contacts either phone calls or email. Richard has caused me more aggravation than I am willing to deal with.
BIC/BS

[Buckshot]

Blackmon's horizontal(like the old SAS?) press is reasonable and so are his dies, but he's way behind last I heard. !

...........I don't believe he makes swaging equipment any longer.

I can't concieve of WHAT on a swage press there is that could be patented? EVERYBODY uses the toggle linkage on their reloading presses, and it's what you'd use on a swage press. You can't patent threads because they're not new and unusual. You can't patent a stationary die and a moving base punch, or vice versa.

Neither can I see that the die or basepunch platten moving up and down on guide rods would be patentable either. Forster uses them on their Co-Ax press, so does Saeco one thier lube/size press, and CH has used it for years on some of their "H" presses.

Nowhere on the RCE Ent website is there any notification of anything being patent protected, and I suppose the easiest thing to do would be to simply ask.

..............Buckshot

[Willbird]

I remember seeing a picture of a bullet swaging press Ferris Pindell made, it was a horizontal one. He as I recall just took a huge block of steel, and cut a rectangular opening in it, and went from there.

If somebody would post more pictures from more angles of their press, I would have a better idea what we are dealing with here.

[ANeat]

So if you get the presses made then what?

I plan on making my own dies, or at least trying.

[Willbird]

Agreed, I will make my own dies too.

Honestly the RCE prices are very reasonable. $250 for a press sounds like a lot, but that would only buy you about 2 hours labor from a good sized machine shop, maybe 3 hours from a small to mid sized shop that uses cnc equipment. That includes nothing for materials.

Bill

[scrapcan]

OK guys I will try to get you some pictures of different angles this week end of the csp-1. You can look at the pictures in Buchshot's old posts on his Wlanut Hill ( very nice press by the way).

There is an old thread on a press made form a large hex on this site. I too agree the pres sis most likely the easy part, the dies are a bit more difficult. I bought a lathe instead of buying a set of dies. I am not even close to making my own dies, but I am having alot of of fun with a new hobby!

If you can wait a few days I will put some pictures up.

[Willbird]

if you can, move the lever partway thru the stroke for some of the pictures, looking at the thing from the front it is hard to see the moving parts, it all sort of blends together :-).

[chrisx1]

Honestly the RCE prices are very reasonable. $250 for a press sounds like a lot, but that would only buy you about 2 hours labor from a good sized machine shop, maybe 3 hours from a small to mid sized shop that uses cnc equipment. That includes nothing for materials.

Bill

I couldn't agree more - $250 is more than fair, but if he never ships it, it doesn't matter what the price is. It would undoubtedly cost more to make it at a machine shop, but at least you would know the thing was going to be made, and that you would get to take possession of it soon.

I would probably give Richard $500 if he would ship one to me tomorrow.

Chris

[scrapcan]

Willbird,

What you asked is what I had planned. No good to give you advertising shots, you need photos with information.

[ANeat]

Here is a page on Dave Corbins with a lot of good info.

http://www.corbins.com/csp-spec.htm

[calaloo]

I've had a Walnut Hill press for many years. The only thing I use it for is paper patch bullets for the .45-70. My understanding is that the more you call Richard the slower he is. A friend bought one a couple of years ago and I don't recall the wait to be excessive. He is the one who told me if you left Richard alone he would get the work done.

[Lissauer]

I got a Walnuthill it too about 5 months to get. It showed up just before Christmas. I would call Richard and ask him, he is now has a cnc shop helping him so he can get thing moving faster.

[scrapcan]

ANeat,

that is the basics of the top half of the press. the part not shown is the linkage. I will try to get some pictures up this weekend.

[scrapcan]

here you go, you should get a good idea of the sizeand operation of the scp-1 from these. You can see the two settign for the ram on the link in photos 1,2, and 5. 1 is ram in down position, 2 is half way through stroke, 3 and 4 are full up front view, 5 is side view half whay through only left side of press

[ANeat]

Very nice pics, Ive done a little price checking over the weekend and using pre polished ground rods and using 1018 for the plates youre looking at approx $150.00 in metal. This is for something like a cross between the Walnut Hill and Mega Mite.

I Think with Manley's pics and the info on the web a guy could make a pretty respectable press.

I do like the idea of the extra guide plate like the Mega Mite and Walnut hill. The extra space between the support/guide rods as well.


I also like the way the Walnut hill is setup with the linkage going from the toggle to the top plate.


A guy building his own could incorporate the features he likes

[Willbird]

ANeat, where did you check prices ??

There are several kinds of turned/ground/polished rod avail, some hard and others not hardened...some even have a hard chrome on them I think ? 1018 would be a good steel to use, 4140 pre heat treat would be a little more difficult to machine. The machines that use cast parts, does anybody know if it is cast iron, or cast steel ?

Bill

[ANeat]

Willbird Speedy metals has ground/polished 1144 stressproof. I was figuring 1" for the guides and at least 1.25 on the main ram.

Ive also seen some that were hardened, chromed. Im still open for suggestions or better ideas.
One other concern on the rod is the guide rams will need to have either threads turned on the ends, or holes tapped in the ends so some degree of machinability needs to be there.

Also the main ram will need a slot milled for the knockout pin, the hole drilled/tapped for the dies and the hole for the linkage.

I figured 1018 for the ease of welding as I think the toggle will need welded up

[Willbird]

well on any of the hardened material, it only usually has a hard shell....once you get through that the core is soft.

[ANeat]

Yes some do have a soft core. Ive also found some hardened shafting that you buy a specific length and the ends are soft.

If I had it on hand I would sure try it but Im trying to avoid buying something that is difficult to work with. Lack of experience on my part I guess
Also as you add features to the rod, ground/polished/chromed/hardened its gets more expensive.
Plus trying to order from as few places as possible to keep the shipping down, so far Speedy metals seems to have the best combination. Getting most of the material needed.

But I havent ordered anything yet and Im open to ideas/suggestions.


I would also probably end up ordering some bronze bushings from Mcmaster for all the bearing surfaces.

[chrisx1]

ANeat - you're right on track - keep up the good work!

I'm with you on the features of the WH - definately would like to see the design go in that direction if at all possible -

Chris

[Willbird]

I have worked with the hardened and chromed stuff quite a bit. For a keyway you just mill a flat first.

To make several of them if we come up with a group effort I might suggest machining them up, then having them case hardened, then OD ground. They would have to have centers in both ends but that is no big deal, and they would probably be a good idea for machining anyway.

Speedy metals might well be the MOST expensive place to buy, but it is a good reference at least to what is readily available.

I'm guessing they just use a dog point setscrew running in the keyway to stop the ram from rotating out of position.

For the two long tie rods, or tension rods I'm thinking that long socket head capscrews might work fine. That way you are buying a ready made part with the heat treat already done. A 3/4-10 socket heat cap screw 10" long for example from Mcmaster is $13, a 1-8 10" long is $21. Once again Mcmaster may not be the best price, but good place to check avail.

Bill

[ANeat]

Actually Mcmaster is a lot higher on the ground rod and 1018 steel. If there are better places please clue us in.

The ram itself should just be round, no keyway, They have a slot milled for the knockout pin. Being pinned to the toggle at the bottom will keep it from rotating. Plus it is mounted to the guide plate? somehow, threaded in I assume

Now remember Im talking about something closer to the Walnut Hill or Mega Mite press that has a guide that rides up with the ram, and goes up along the two tension rods.

The CSP may be the one youre thinking of


Im also trying to avoid outsourcing any machining. Start paying a shop to heat treat and OD grind and you would be right there at the cost of buying it pre-ground I think...


One example on the guide rod, or tension rods.

McMaster has pre-finished case hardened, 1" dia with threads on each end. 12" travel for $70.00

http://www.mcmaster.com/param/images/shafts/8350ttwotravellg.gif


Where as a 18" piece of ground/polished 1144 stressproof from Speedy Metals is $11.00


Now the Stressproof is no-where near as hard as the casehardened rod from McMaster but Im not sure if it needs to be that hard.

Looks like any contact/wear points can be bronze bushed.

[ANeat]

Another example/possibility from McMaster. They have regular case hardened polished/ground linear shafting. $20.00 for the 1" dia, 18" long. That seems like a worthwhile upgrade

The same thing but with chrome plating is $50.00

[richbug]

For the two long tie rods, or tension rods I'm thinking that long socket head capscrews might work fine. That way you are buying a ready made part with the heat treat already done. A 3/4-10 socket heat cap screw 10" long for example from Mcmaster is $13, a 1-8 10" long is $21. Once again Mcmaster may not be the best price, but good place to check avail.

Bill

I have a surplus hardware/tool and die type place about an hour away, I was going to make the pilgrimage to see if they had any 7/8-14 or 1.25-12 bolts to make some dies from.

IIRC they get $1 a pound for all their bolts, probably have 25 tons of allen bolts, 10 times that in hex head cap screws.

[Willbird]

cnczone.com is a good place to surf to find places to buy stuff. The shafting a lot of guys use for building machines is called IHCP for "Induction Hardened Chrome Plated".

We are not talking reloading press's here, but the issue to me with a soft shaft is that any abrasive that gets into the works will load into the bronze bushing then cut away at the steel part.

The Mcmaster part sort of looks like a cylinder rod ?

Most good bolts(grade 8) are 4140 steel I think ?? it is OK at 38-40 rockwell, but if you heat treat it to 55-60 rockwell it gets brittle. Many reloading dies are just case hardened...not sure what they use to make swaging dies.

A lot of steel forming dies I used to make were made of D2........

Speedy metals and online metals are more expensive than say a local steel supplier, IF you can find one that does not have BS minimum orders...more or less some are willing to sell to somebody that wants less than $100 of stuff, others are not willing.

cast iron bushings might actually be superior to bronze IF the parts that runs in them is hardened. To do it properly in either case the bushings will need to be machined to final size AFTER being pressed or shrunk in.

Bill

[ANeat]

The Mcmaster stuff is for linear guides and such. They have plain ends, tapped ends, threaded ends like in the pic.

I think the plain end I mentioned, case hardened to 60 I believe would be the best option.

Drill and tap a hole in the ends and bolt into place. (for the guides)

Yea I know the bushings will need bored out after instalation.

I know the online places arent the best but around me they either have no selection, or they bend ya over a stump

[Willbird]

The deal with the Thompson stuff is that is has a straightness spec that is far better than what we need.

This is the stuff a lot of folks use.....

http://www.specialtysteel.com/products-1045ihcp.shtml

There are places that sell geared to home cnc builders that have ballscrew by the inch, I was hoping to find one that had IHCP.

here is one place, I inquired about prices on 4" to 6" lengths just to see what they say..........

http://rst.pbclinear.com/RST/roundshafttechnology.htm?gclid=CPO-7s_IxJ8CFdRM5QodL2yK3g

[ANeat]

Yes Willbird its probably the same stuff that McMaster sells. I know thw price on the plated stuff goes up real fast.

It will be nice if they are less expensive

The Numbers for the 2 items I was refering to from McMaster are 60345k43 and 6061k45

[Willbird]

OK they replied back asking for sizes, and I told them (2) pieces 1" dia and 18" long. Lets see what they say. It will be nice of we can agree on a design then we can maybe save a bit ordering some stuff in multiples.

[MightyThor]

Being a dumpster diver/scrounge from 4 generations back, I suggest that a lot of prototype stuff can be built with car parts. Ruana built knives out of Studabaker springs.

Anyone here consider making rams out of axle shafts? Junk yards gotta have a ton of them. I read somewhere that early bullet dies were made outta truck axles. Seems to me that some decent toggles could be cut out of the springs, Housings formed from axle housings, might want bronze bushings for guides etc. I have lots of Ideas on how I want to make mine, but no time to do it right now.

I guess what I am saying is design first, build with cheap materials second, upgrade parts as needed.
Not sure what would have to be hard stock until the design is complete. A soft steel shaft 4 inches in diameter will push so hard without bending that no hardening would be necessary but wear might be an issue. Weight too. I am lurking cause you guys are da brains but I love where this thread is going

[shooterg]

Had to put struts on front of vehicle. Wondering about the material in the central rods in those things - still shiny after 135,000 miles - maybe useful in making a press ?

[bohica2xo]

There seems to be a disconnect here between designs of presses & materials.

The press in the pictures on page 2 uses a pair of rods in tension to hold the top plate against the force of the ram. the links act between the base plate, and the ram to produce the force. The rods that hold the top plate are in tension, while the ram is in compression. The ram must guide the die accurately, and absorb both the axial & radial force.

The second press design under discussion uses a pair of rods to guide a plate with the die mounted to it. The top plate of the press holds the punch, and the links connect directly to the top plate. The guide rods are basically just along for the ride. The links are in tension against the force of the ram. The guide rods handle the radial alignment & force, the ram carries only the axial force and can have generous clearance.

Either design works well. Material selection is important for both designs.

I wonder how much force is actually generated by the press in the pictures, since the link pins appear to be roll pins. A terrible choice for a pivot, I would hope they go through a bushing in the link.

If you plan to build the press in the pictures, I would use something with a fairly high yeild strength in the as shipped condition for the rods. It does not need to be pretty, or ground on the OD. It is just a tie bolt. For solid stock I would use E52100. Cheap, tough & predictable. Or use a decent bolt, with a compression sleeve. You could use a piece of pipe if you have a good bolt inside of it. Through holes in the top plate, tap the bottom plate.

The biggest issue with building something like this is alignment. The hole in the top plate must be concentric with the ram OD, and square to the ram as well. Nothing "floats" in a good forming die setup.

The press with the moving plate & two guides would be easier to keep true. The top plate & moving plate could be bored at the same time to keep everything straight.

Sounds like you guys need to settle on a design first. I understand the desire to make a press given the poor availability, but I would caution against cutting too many corners trying to make it for 10% of what it is worth.

Can someone post pics of the other designs being discussed?

B.

[ANeat]

The press I plan on building is something close to a Walnut Hill, Here is a pic I borrowed from another members post.

http://www.fototime.com/843853136AD317F/standard.jpg

[ANeat]

As far as the roll pins in the CSP I believe they go thru a bushing and the links actually ride on needle bearings.

I like the CSP design that was posted by Manleyjt but there is a very long piece in the base serving as the "guide" for lack of a better word. Looks like that would be a little tougher to pull off with what I have to work with.

Something like the Walnut Hill or Mega Mite has the seperate guide attatched to the top of the ram. That requires the polished/ground rods on the sides but I think makes for a stronger setup.

[ANeat]

This is the Mega Mite.

http://www.corbins.com/images/csp-2web.jpg

[bohica2xo]

ANeat:

The walnut hill & the mega-mite are still two different critters when it comes to where the force is.

The mega-mite is a hybrid between the other two. The guide plate does have an advantage for the average home shop machinist. The other big change in the mega-mite is moving the cross pin for the ejector up to the top of the base plate.

While adding a needle bearing to the link will smooth things up, the ultimate force applied is still limited by the roll pin.

The walnut hill places all of the stress on the links. the top plate does not need to be secured to the rods by any great strength. The mega-mite is trying to stretch the rods, and the top plate needs to be well secured.

I believe you mentioned McMaster-Carr for guide rods. They sell a simple case hardened SAE1566 alloy rod. In a 1.00 diameter the case depth is .080, and they tap fairly well if you face the end off. About 20 bucks for an 18" length. If you go with the walnut hill design, a tapped hole in the ends of those should do fine. Even as small as 3/8 - 24, although I would probably go with 7/16-20.

B.

[hardcase54]

A little different from my S-press

[ANeat]

Thanks for the info B. Yes I really like the linkage setup on the Walnut Hill compared to the others.

[ANeat]

Yea Hardcase, there are a few variants out there, including the ones that lay down horizontal.

More than one way to squeeze a bullet out ;)

[Willbird]

Man I would like to have one of those to look at, pictures are just not doing it. I agree however that walnut hill is the design type I am interested in. They did get back to me with a quote, they quoted the wrong lengths...but the good news is the price is only $.84 per inch, $5.04 for a 6" length....so that would be just over $15 for an 18" length.

Although I generally hate the metric system, metric socket head capscrews do have one nice feature, the heads are bigger in dia in proportion to the bolt size, sometimes that is a feature worth having.

Bill

[MightyThor]

As far as the roll pins in the CSP I believe they go thru a bushing and the links actually ride on needle bearings.

I like the CSP design that was posted by Manleyjt but there is a very long piece in the base serving as the "guide" for lack of a better word. Looks like that would be a little tougher to pull off with what I have to work with.

Something like the Walnut Hill or Mega Mite has the seperate guide attatched to the top of the ram. That requires the polished/ground rods on the sides but I think makes for a stronger setup.

I think one of the best features of the Walnut hill is that the guide rod alignment is not really critical until the ram gets to the top of the stroke and at that point the alignment is held most securely because the guide is closest to the top plate and exerting less leverage on the guide rods. With the use of the floating punch holders that the Corbins tend to favor, there is a fair amount of room for alignment variables without negative effect on the swaging process.

[scrapcan]

While you guys are in a building mood here are some additional press types that could be built and most likely some easier than others.

First is the SAS press by Ted Smith or the corbin mighty mite

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=56653

you could make the press out of large square stock and the ram from round-ground-hardened stock.

Here is a link to an old thread by Elk Hunter, this pictures are now down but I bet he would show them again if interested.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=47506

And here is a picture of the herters 9ton press, you should be able to make one like this if you have a mill

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=31165

And here is an o frame type press that was shop made.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=32725

[Willbird]

OK I just got a quote for 18" long pieces of 1" dia

$15.12 each.

Bill

[dragonrider]

I checked the web site for speedy metals and found this for the guide rods. Quite reasonable prices I think.
Speedy metals 1144 stressproof Turned, ground and polished
1"x18"=$10.31
3/4"x18"=$5.98
7/8"x18"=$8.09

Guides rods such as pictured in post 48 are the way to go I would think, but the price tag is outrageous. They can be made from the material listed above for considerably less. If using the 1" material I would turn the threaded end to .750" and thread it 24 TPI. A few bronze bushings and some flat stock for the rest of the press, some shoulder bolts for the swinging arms to pivot on.
I am more than a little interested in building such a press, the walnut hill style would be my choice.

[ANeat]

I was thinking that as well Paul, a couple of the guys pointed out how soft they were. (compared to what else is available) A little more searching and either the place Wilbird found or McMaster had regular case hardened shafting, ground and polished, the outside a tough R60 hardness about .080 thick.

1"x 18" is $20.00 If you could get away with a 12" piece its $13.16

Adam

[dragonrider]

Unless someone who owns one of these presses can tell us for certain that the shafts are hardened I am inclined not to go that route. I don't believe it is needed. The bushings will wear long before the shaft will and are easily replaceable. Turning hardened shaft be will difficult to say the least, not impossible and I can do it, but difficult. If the case harden is .080 deep that will make threading very difficult also as you will not be under it at .750". So then the thing to do would be to turn it down further to say .625". Another alternative would be to drill and tap the ends of the shafts and fasten it together using grade 8 bolts, this will require machining a counterbore into the top plate and possibly the bottom. Drawings will need to be made and methods of attachment discussed.
In short I think the only thing the case hardened shafting will do is make the job more difficult.

I did find this but at only 12" overal length I think it would be too short.


Part Number: 1144K47 $35.75 Each
Application
Linear Motion Shafts

Type
Shafts

Shaft Type
Machinable End Shafts

System of Measurement
Inch

Material
Steel

Steel Type
AISI 1566 Steel

Finish
Plain

Surface Finish
8-12 rms

Hardness
Case Hardened

Minimum Hardness Depth
0.08"

Rockwell/Brinell Hardness
Rockwell C60

Outside Diameter
1"

Outside Diameter Tolerance
-0.0005" to -0.001"

Straightness Tolerance
0.001" per foot

Overall Length
12"

Ends
Chamfered

Test Report
Without Test Report

Specifications Met
American Iron and Steel Institute (AISI)

Note
Shafts come with 2" of each end already annealed (softened). Are precision ground for exacting diameter and straightness tolerances.

[ANeat]

Honestly I couldnt say whether the stressproof would be hard enough or not. With the case hardened I was planning on what you described, drill/tap the ends, slight co-bore on the plates. Bolt together.

Plus with a bolt on version the 12" would be long enough.

Seems like I read somewhere the ram on one of those presses was chrome plated I cant recall if Ive heard how hard they are.

Unless someone does a hardness check on one were all just guessing as best we can.

[bohica2xo]

Might want to check that math there dragonrider. A 1.00 shaft reduced to .750 for threading would have .125 stock removal for threading - well below the .080 case.

If you are afraid of the hardened material, just make it out of drill rod. For the walnut hill design, the rods are not in tension. You could easily turn them down to .500, and thread them .500-20


For a mightyMite design, the rods should be up to the force generated by the linkage.


B.

[Buckshot]

...........The guide/support rods on the Walnut Hill are hard chromed.

http://www.fototime.com/FEB48295FDD2804/standard.jpg

I made these dies for a 1871 Brazilian Comblain carbine. The material was the shafts from the front struts of an '87 Chevy Celebrity. They're 7/8" in diameter and hard chromed. Now I do not know what the steel was they're made of but it machined well. I had to use a carbide threading tool to cut the threads as a HSS bit simply and totally failed to penetrate :-)

Of course it probably wouldn't pay to go mucking around in an auto dismantelers looking for something similar, or hasseling with taking them off on top of it! However, if someone was to stop by a couple automotive shops to check out their dumpster, who knows? I sure wouldn't be afraid to use them.

.............Buckshot

[jixxerbill]

im very interested in this thread ! i dont have alot to offer as far as helping. i just got my lathe finally and in the process of making some dies for my bss press from mr. blackmon.. but it seems to have some kind of oddball internal threads in the ram, i cant match them. so if this press thats being designed on here comes about , please let me know !! im interested in getting one ! thanks...bill

[teddyblu]

jioxxerbill:
I don't know about blackmon press but my Ted Smith press has a 5/8x24 thread in the ram. I have taps and dies for this thread I purchased from MSC

Larry

[dragonrider]

"Might want to check that math there dragonrider. A 1.00 shaft reduced to .750 for threading would have .125 stock removal for threading - well below the .080 case."

OOPS your right. [smilie=b: I hate it when that happens. And this could change my mind about useing case hardened shaft. Not the method I would prefer but absolutely doable and less work involved too, at least on the shafts. Buckshot has provided a valuable piece info about the shafts being hardchrome plated. I'd be all over that if I could find some. Did not see it listed anywher yet. I am sure it is out there though.

[ANeat]

The chrome plated shafting is available but the stuff Ive found is pretty expensive. Ive looked at a lot of different linear shafting but I seem to recall $50.00 for the plated rods compared to less than $20.00 for the case hardened.

[bohica2xo]

The case hardened shafts should be just fine - unless you are making bullets in an acidic swamp.

Anytime you get a case that deep on SAE1566, the core is plenty tough too. That should make an excellent part, and thread well. I would rather thread heat treated material than ferro-manureite.

Really, with a bolt together design based on the Walnut Hill you only need precision holes in the moving plate. Bolt clearance holes top & bottom are all you need to hold it together. No counterbores are really necessary, the plate with the bearings is used to align the rods.

B.

[Buckshot]

..........I'm going to post several detail photo's of the press, so maybe it'll help out some of you guys who might be using it as a basis for your own.

http://www.fototime.com/4E9C142DDF4D336/standard.jpghttp://www.fototime.com/90F86F33D15EF34/standard.jpg

LEFT PHOTO Die station, looking down. RIGHT PHOTO Looking up, underside of the platten/die station. It appears the head of the ram and the platten are pressed together. There is zero evidence of being threaded, or other means of retention.

http://www.fototime.com/4D68B31A3657154/standard.jpghttp://www.fototime.com/3FFB8085F529305/standard.jpg

LEFT PHOTO Platten at full extension. The slot bottoms at 5.375" from the TOP of the platten, which is the critical measurement. RIGHT PHOTO The .750+" bore in the ram to contain the ejector is 4.25" long from the top of the ram.

http://www.fototime.com/CE54B50FE72A151/standard.jpghttp://www.fototime.com/A402847C1AD89A5/standard.jpg

LEFT PHOTO The ejector rod in place with the keeper rod through the ejctor rod body, with the spring resting on it. THis keeps the ejector rod down in the ram. The platten is at full extension. If there had been a die in place it would be in the pressure/swaging position. RIGHT PHOTO The platten down. The ejector body hits the ejector bar which causes it to stop while the ram continues down. The ejector pin is then forced up through the die body to eject the core or finished slug.

[Buckshot]

http://www.fototime.com/8E7DCA145F28F80/standard.jpghttp://www.fototime.com/EC6F597A6795D17/standard.jpg

LEFT PHOTO Top bar showing toggle arm, and guide rod nylon insert nut. RIGHT PHOTO Toggle arm pin. I suppose a hardened dowel would be a good cost effective and accurate pre-made part to use?

http://www.fototime.com/6DA088FA82F0EB8/standard.jpghttp://www.fototime.com/F81B6CE76DDD3E2/standard.jpg

LEFT PHOTOIt appeares that the guide rods are merely sitting on top of the base, with (probably) an unthreaded shoulder going through the base, and threaded only on the end for the nut? Seems the most logical to me. RIGHT PHOTO A view from the side showing the toggle and ram pin locations. If the arms weren't made long enough to increase the ram's stroke for use as a reloading press (a waste IMHO) it could sit closer to the bench. However, the way it's sitting now hasn't presented any problems.

http://www.fototime.com/C1392DADC49E9D2/standard.jpghttp://www.fototime.com/71F38309BFFF63B/standard.jpg

Ram, toggle and toggle arms pivit pin detail. The ram has a bronze bushing that it's pin goes through. The toggle arms do not and bear on the pins directly.

..................Buckshot

[Buckshot]

http://www.fototime.com/4E6A51927B56C9E/standard.jpghttp://www.fototime.com/91FC94E9095DE0C/standard.jpg

LEFT PHOTO Is the ejector pin and body. Merely a .750" OD piece of W-1, and could easily be common 1018. The large hole at the bottom of the body is to accept the rod which the pressure spring sits on to keep the ejector assembly down in the ram. The hole above it is threaded and has a sockethead screw bearing against the ejector rod. All this does is to keep the pin from being casually sucked up out of the body. It does NOT retain the pin against any swaging forces. The pin sits against the bottom of it's hole in the ejector body.

If you make an ejector pin to form hollowpoints, you can vary the depth of the HP 2 ways. One is to make .750" OD washers of varying thicknesses to go UNDER the ejector body in the ram.

RIGHT PHOTO This is simply to show the die and ejector body and pin relationship, fully down. You can see the tip of the ejector pin in the mouth of the die. In this position the ejector pin body would have stopped against the stop bar that goes through the ram. While the ram continued downward, the stopped ejector pin would push the core or slug up and out of the die.

..............Buckshot

[ANeat]

Great pics and info, Thanks..