Any Difference Between the 4198's

[Marlin Junky]

From the current descriptions of IMR and H-4198, they appear to be the same powder. Anyone have any personal experience? Does one meter better than the other? I've got an older "metal-can" version of IMR4198 that is still the "long cut" variety that I pretty much used up developing maximum loads for the 444 and now that I don't have but a few grains remaining, I'd like to work out some reduced loads for the 444 and maybe even the 35 Rem (275-310 grain @ 1600-1900 and 180-220 grain @ 2000+, respectively). Are the 4198's a good choice for accuracy loads in this range or would there be a better choice? I was thinking of maybe getting a "sampler" from PV to consist of something like: 4227, 4198, 2015, Re7, etc. (Re7 is getting kind of pricey though!).

MJ

[bearmn56]

They both have a close enough burning rate to be interchangeable. However, here in Montana, with it's extreme temperatures, H4198 get the nod. I have experimented with Hogdgons(sp?) "Extreme" powders and they DO perform as advertised. I have fired rounds, over my Chrony, heated in a heater duct, followed by rounds in a deep freeze overnight and there in no noticeable difference. I like H4198 in my .222 for coyote shooting. It can be VERY cold here in the field hunting those critters in Dec, Jan , Feb. H4198 is very accurate in my .222 with lighter bullets and I use it in my .303 Brit and .30-06 with cast boolits. Very accurate here too.
Straight walled cases love 4198 of either persuasion....even with less than max charges. I use a small 5/8" sqare piece of 1/4" polyester batting, available in most sewing stores, to take up space if there is a lot of air space over the powder. This takes away any position sensitivity.
Hope this helps,
Bearmn56
Montana Territory

[Marlin Junky]

...I use it in my .303 Brit and .30-06 with cast boolits... Straight walled cases love 4198 of either persuasion....even with less than max charges.
Bearmn56
Montana Territory

I'd be interested in some chronograph data and group sizes.

Thanks,
MJ

[GabbyM]

The H 4198 is new shorter cut. Not relay a short cut just shorter than old IMR4198. It meters OK but not great. It flows through the 22 caliber necks at least with out bridging. I bought some to try then ordered ten pounds of RX7 since I have an aversion to weighing charges. Alliant is pretty proud of their Reloader series powder $. Haven't used any of the RX7 yet. Hope I like it. Been using the 4198 in cast bullets for 223, 243AI, 270win and 30-30.

[StarMetal]

Hodgdon swears up and down that the powders that are like their in (speaking rifle powder) are different. They pointed out to me how the other manufacturers powders have that dark heavily graphited coating, whereas their powders do not. They went on to say that the other's use the graphite as s burnrate deterant and Hodgdon does not as much. Hodgdon claims their coating of light graphite is to combat static electricity and aid flow through powder measures. I have found the other manufacturers powders to be very similar in performance. You asked for some chronograph reading, well I don't have them at hand, but I loaded H4895, IMR4895, surplus 4895, and Accurate AA2495 in some 32 Special test rounds . Using the same brass and primers, and bullets (the Lee 175 grain 8mm sized to first the 32 Special specs) I found single digit velocity differences. What was amazing also was that by not changing my Belding & Mull powder tube setting that all those powders threw remarkably near identical weights. I'm not saying identical, I'm saying amazingly close. I told Hodgdon about this test and they weren't surprised they were that close. I can't speak for the other rifle powders at this moment as I haven't tested them alongside one another as of yet.

Joe

[Marlin Junky]

I'm thinking Re10x might be even a better bet for the 35 Rem and 444. Anybody know if the kernel size of 10x is about like that of Re7?

MJ

[MtGun44]

Definitely different powders, physically and burning characteristics.

Go to http://data.hodgdon.com/cartridge_load.asp

Check out loads for .45-70 trapdoor. The two powders are listed next to each other,
different pressures and velocities.

Bill

[Marlin Junky]

I shouldn't need to look at anyone's reloading data for pressure and velocity info because I have that and more available to me in QuickLoad. What I'm looking for are the physical differences between 7 and 10x; specifically, how well does 10x meter? My guess is that it meters OK because of it's intended use; however, I'd like to know before spending 90+ bucks for 5 pounds that it meters at least as well as (or hopefully better than) XMR 2015.

Thanks,
MJ

[Houndog]

MJ,
10X is a short cut extruded powder with a grain size about like vv N133 and is fairly dark in color. It is also a VERY dirty powder and leaves a hard black coating in your barrell that's almost impossible to get out. I tried it in a 6PPC when it first came out and didn't like it at all! I do have a friend that shoots it at 600 yard matches in a longated 6BR, but almost all the other target shooters I know abandoned it shortly after it hit the market. I can't tell you about position sensitivity ETC as I shot a slightly compressed load with it.

[HangFireW8]

From the current descriptions of IMR and H-4198, they appear to be the same powder.

Marlin Junky,

I have quite a bit of experience with both 4198's in 444 Marlin. The Hodgdon version can take a stiffer loading without pressure problems until the lever pops open, your jaw and shoulder hurt, and you consider knocking off early, and the primer is still round. Not much accuracy to be found there, though, adequate for hunting at Eastern woods ranges.

For Hornady 265gr J-Bullets at top velocities, H322 gave me everything I wanted, tight groups (allowing the barrel to cool between shots) and top velocity for max listed loads. I can get the accuracy or the velocity with either 4198, or most of both with either IMR or H 4895, but H322 gives up both with max loads.

This, I learned, after burning up almost 3 pounds of H4198 in max loads, that an early H322 load that I tried 13 years ago was the best after all. It left a few unburned kernels in the bore which I didn't like back then, but looking at the H322 targets and crono results from then and now, and I have to say, how cares?

For accuracy at more modest velocities, hard to beat H4198 though.

-HF

[imashooter2]

10X and 7 are near identical in grain size. They meter "OK."