44HP from .40 SW w/ pictures

[CWME]

Got my dies in and started playing with them today. I didn't like that the locking nuts didn't have a set screw. So I drilled and tapped the nuts for both dies. Not sure why this wouldn't come as standard. Once you take the dies out of the press you loose your settings and have to start all over again. Anyway..

I used my Dillon Square deal B which is set for 40 SW to seat the cores. I bypassed the decaping/sizing die and started with a slight belling of the mouth in station 2. Station 3 is the seat die and I adjusted it so the bullet was seated well below the ogive. The last station puts a crimp on the case to get the nose started.

I was having a hard time imagining seating the bullets into the cases by hand so I played with the progressive press for a while and it preps everything for the swaging nicely.

After preping the brass and core for swaging I performed these steps.
Step 1 run the unit into the point forming die.
Step 2 run this into the core seat die to roll the brass over the top of the core.
Step 3 run the bullet back into the point forming die to flatten the brass onto the lead core. This locks the core into the case.

With the 175 grain 40 bullet the lead didn't make it to the end of the case. So that is why I rolled the brass over.
I experimented with using 2 100 grain 9mm makarov bullets for the core and that looks promising. The lead ran all the way to the edge of the brass in one step. However with the 9mm bullets not fitting snug in the case the nose has more lead on one side than the other. Working on a wire extruder so that I can make cores in different weights.

Anyway for the hour or so I played with this I am very impressed with the results. 50 rounds loaded for testing so thats $13 saved already...

Left picture, left bullet not run back through the point forming die. Right picture, the bullet on the right is the one that wasn't run through the point forming die for the second time.

[ANeat]

Those look really nice

[CWME]

Notes,
Brass was not anealed
cores are WWs
Final weight is 252 GR +-

22 Gr H110 sparked by a CCI 350 Mag primer. Fired 5 and they are real thumpers. Cycled through my Marlin 1894 lever action like a hot knife through butter.

[ANeat]

Something like a Lee 6 cavity mold drilled out would make a good canidate for a core mold

[CWME]

If I can't get the wire extruder working then a Lee 6 cav will go under the knife for sure. Thanks for the suggestion:wink:

As a side note I found out that an RCBS Rock Chucker DOES NOT have enough force to extrude lead wire... Even with a 3/4 pipe slipped over the handle for a cheater bar and a torch heating the die... I tore the press off the bench[smilie=b:[smilie=b:
Will have to wait for the 20 ton shop press that is on back order with Harbor Freight...

[CWME]

I also found out that using a oxy/acetylene rosebud is not a good idea for anealing brass... So I went with non anealed brass for now. Melted 3 cases in the blink of an eye.

[ANeat]

Ive played a little with extruding wire. The more you reduce really increases the pressure required.

I havent tried it yet but others have suggested multiple outlet holes to help reduce the pressure required

[ANeat]

I also found out that using a oxy/acetylene rosebud is not a good idea for anealing brass... So I went with non anealed brass for now. Melted 3 cases in the blink of an eye.


:D Yea I can see that happening:lol:

[CWME]

I took the insert out of the Rock Chucker and made a 1 1/4 die to thread in. The bore dia was 1/2 with a 3/8 outlet hole. The ram was made from 1/2 drill rod. I turned the end of this so it would fit into the ram like a shell holder.

Idea was to try to swage/extrude .403 soft lead bullets to .375. Was going to start there and then hone out the opening to .395 or so to make the cores fit the 40 sw case better. Thought I would try it before putting a lot of time in. Yeah it didn't work the way I thought it would... Rock chucker ended up on the floor with me wondering what the h**l just happened.

Multiple holes would be interesting for sure. Will put this idea on the back burner for now.

The rosebud melting the cases is a funny story.... I am not too bright sometimes and don't think things through all the way. So I started with stuffing 175gr bullets into the cases. They stuck out the nose of the case a bit so I thought I would aneal and melt the lead at the same time. Again it didn't work the way I thought... The AIR that is trapped under the core expands when heated... Bullets hit the ceiling and then the cases melted in a flash... Before I knew what happened I had hot lead flying around and melted cases shriveled up on the floor... It's funny now, had to retire a set of underwear though....=)

[BT Sniper]

DAMN!!!!!! Those look GOOD! First try too. Not sure if I feel a sense of joy or jealousy. OK I'm jealous, looks like you did your research thanks for sharing. Results like this should really boost this hobby.

Nice work!

BT

[ETG]

Ive played a little with extruding wire. The more you reduce really increases the pressure required.

I havent tried it yet but others have suggested multiple outlet holes to help reduce the pressure required

Bore size vs nozzle size, alloy, amount of lead in die all affect the pressure required. You want to avoid sharp angles in the die - taper the entry into the nozzle and keep the length of the orifice short Drill the nozzle hole the size you want then taper the opening. Counter bore the bottom of the nozzle untill you only have 1/8" - 1/4" that will actually size the wire. I use a lanolin/mineral oil lube on the outside of the lead ingots. I have a 1" bore cylinder with a 3/16" nozzle. I load 5 -6" of 7/8" diameter well lubed pure lead ingots into the cylinder and press. It takes almost all the 20 ton press can give to start the lead moving but then it eases up considerable. I do not heat the die assembly.

[BT Sniper]

"Anyway for the hour or so I played with this I am very impressed with the results. 50 rounds loaded for testing so thats $13 saved already"

Just to give you an idea of potentialy how much you are going to save. In the first year and a half of this hobby I have traded over 5k worht of these same bullets and I don't think I really worked that hard at it, nore did I have results this good right out of the shoot and nore did I have a progressive press. You are on your way!

Would like to see the progressive set up for those of us that have never used/seen one used for swaging.

Thanks

BT

[CWME]

I would never have thought of trying this new hobby had all of you not posted ideas and pictures here. I joined this site because of the great information being posted on a daily basis. There are a lot of you guys on here that have a lot of great ideas and are willing to share. For that I say THANK YOU!

Never thought of trading bullets... Good idea!

I will bring the camera to the shop with me this afternoon and post some pictures. I should remind everyone that I am only using the progressive press to flare the case, then seat a bullet rather deep in the case, and then using the crimp die to take the flare out and start rolling the case back in. I am not putting any pressure on the lead or case to start the swaging. The steps are just exagerated reloading processes. My as cast 40 bullets were a very tight fit in the case and I had a sore thumb after five cases... Anyway this gets me a "unit" that is ready for swaging. With the Square deal B I should be able to crank out 400 "units" an hour. From there it is all swaging time on the Rock Chucker.

BT if I can't figure out a bullet ejector for this setup I will need to beg you for one=) Your video makes me envious... Whacking the dies with a mallet gets old quick. Or should I say a 250 grain slug coming out of the dies at 100MPH and landing on your hand is getting very sore.

The set screw in the lock nuts is a life saver! 10 minutes and $1 in parts is wort it's weight in gold. I need to add set screws to the lock nuts for the depth adjustments as well. If you don't have taps and a drill press steal a locking nut with set screw off a set of reloading dies that you don't use much.

Should have some pictures by tonight of the press setup.

[Daywalker]

I wanted to tell ya those are great looking bullets you produced. I am still waiting on my dies to show up. They charged the account a few days ago. I am hoping Monday!! These are the .451 dies for my 45 acp im going to try using the 40 brass for....

Very good job man

[CWME]

Daywalker, You will not be disapointed with your dies. This stuff is a lot of fun!

The usefulness of the die set doesn't stop at just using brass for the jackets. I ran some Nosler 240 grain soft point 44 bullets into the die and viola, Nosler 240 grain jacketed hollow points...
I also ran some of the 175 grain .40 boolits that were conventionally lubed into the die and again viola 175 grain lubed 44 Hollow points. I will have to test these to see if they lead up the barrels. But the idea stands anyway.

Anyway here are the pictures of some of my setup...

From top Left... Rejects in trying to get the dies setup, Square Deal B Minus powder and some priming parts, case on left flared a smidge right case is as fired.
Next row from left... in machine on right is as fired case, bullet waiting to be seated, and behind those bullet waiting for a slight crimp on the case mouth. "unit" ready for swaging after a wipe down with a rag and a quick shot of hornady one shot case lube. Not sure why I picked the dirtiest one of the group... Quick note, all boolits on hand were already lube with Lee LA so I have been using those. When i cast some up next time I won't lube them all...
Bottom pic is a shot of my casting station with the range hood. The hood is vented out of the room into the rafters and then out the side of the building. In the fore front is my Dillion XL 650 setup for 9mm at this time.

The idea to use the progressive lies in the reject bin on the right side. The flared mouth of the cases was catching on the mouth of the die. So I thought I could fix that... Use whatcha got!

[Daywalker]

Very nice. Just realized Monday is a holiday so no mail service. Will have to wait to see if they get here on Tuesday. I am also waiting on 3,000 plus 40 brass that I bought for 65.00 shipped. I just cant wait. I am also waiting on my .429 dies which has not been charged yet so maybe a week on those as well....

[CWME]

Some more pictures...

[CWME]

Daywalker, Good price on your brass there. I used to be able to pick up all I wanted at the range. Not so now, lucky to find 50 cases in the entire complex.

Been ordering some stuff of late to make this or that to help pass the winter hours. Noticed that everything is slower getting to me this year.

Anyway be sure to post up some pictures of your efforts once you get your dies. Everyone has different ideas on how to do things and it is interesting to see the ideas.

[Daywalker]

Thanks. I will post some pics once I get the hang of it. On the lock ring, you drilled and tapped for a set screw, I like it, would you mind letting me know what size bit, tap, and set screw you went with? If I do not do that, then I may order some of the Lee rings with the rubber gromment like in their dies which I have.

At the range that I am only able to go to, it is in the national forest no fees, use on your own risk, bring own targets, no range boss on duty ever, by the time I get there, the guy down the road has already cleaned the range of the left over brass. I am going to start collecting up all of the RF cases i find laying around. Hopefully I get me a de-rim die made up on the low cost side so I can convert them....

[nicholst55]

I'm very intrigued by the possibility of using a standard reloading press for swaging pistol bullets. Frankly, I'm surprised that the SDB will handle the stress. Using pistol brass for jackets is also an outstanding solution to the problem of obtaining bullet jackets.

Who made your dies? I can see myself spending even more money on this hobby... er.. affliction!

[CWME]

Nicholst55, The SDB is only used to prep the brass and seat the cast boolit deep in the case. I am NOT swaging on the SDB. All Swaging is being done on a RCBS Rock Chucker.
http://www.ch4d.com/ I am using the 101 die set for the 44 boolits. For $130 you can't beat the quality! Having a lot of fun with this stuff.

Daywalker, I used a 8-32 set screw that is 1/4 long. You need to use a #29 drill for this tap. If you don't have a #29 I think you can get by with an 1/8 bit. Put some birdshot or a lead splatter from a drippy bottom pour spout(Lee) under the set screw to help lock things together.

[sagacious]

CWME,
Very nice. With this method, what do your finished bullets mike out at?

[CWME]

I dropped the mic so I need to get a new one... It is reading .4265 for my bullets and the Nosler boolits. So it is fair to say that the mic is toast but mine are the same as the Nosler. That is as close as I can get you...

[buck1]

The brass was not anealed!! I love that!! I am getting worked up about this! I cant wait to get my set up rolling! Thanks for the post!...Buck


Notes,
Brass was not anealed
cores are WWs
Final weight is 252 GR +-

22 Gr H110 sparked by a CCI 350 Mag primer. Fired 5 and they are real thumpers. Cycled through my Marlin 1894 lever action like a hot knife through butter.

[Daywalker]

CWME, I am finally getting to play with my 44 swage dies. Had them for a while now. I am using a 401 casting mold for my cores. The cores are 145 grain pure lead. Same problem you had, one step swage does not bring it all the way to the tip of the case. Could you possibly go through your process of rolling the brass over the lead tip please? My finished weight are between 235 and 238 grains. I am sure this is fine for the 44 mag. Ruger Super Blackhawk with the 7.5" barrel. They come right out at .429 diameter. I have been putting them in my lyman lathe trimmer and trimmed the tips to the brass but not looking so purty.

Thanks..

[pathfinder]

Love that rolled over brass look.