Newbie questions

[sorenlaf]

Hi everyone, this is my first post here. I'm looking for some basic casting and equipment information.

I've been reloading for about 15 years and have considered casting my own bullets for a while now.

So...

Equipment.

Casting furnace.

I'm considering a Lee Pro 4 20. The reviews on the Midway website suggest it's probably the best offering from Lee.

My experience with other Lee products is that they are well engineered, but often executed somewhat less well.

What are people's experience with that furnace? I know it may dribble a little at times.

Molds.

The Lee molds look like a good deal, and I like the fact that they will cast 6 as once. However, I'm wondering if they fall into the "too good to be true" catagory.

I will probably buy at least one Lyman 4 cavity mold, their 147gn 9mm truncated cone, because I really like that bullet.

The other mold I'll definately be buying is a 45acp 200gn swc. Here, my inclination is to go with the Lee, unless people here recommend otherwise.

Lube.

Most of the loads I expect to shoot with cast bullets will be subsonic. Some of my research suggests that dry moly alone will be sufficient (and easy) for loads in the 800-1000 ft/sec range. Any comments or other recommendations?

Sizing.

The Lee size dies look both cheap and convenient. Any problems with them?

Would there be a significant advantage to a lube-sizer over the Lee dies if I'm not using a hard lube?

Casting rate.

I tend to be able to set up my work area to allow me to work efficiently, but without rushing - rushing seem like it would be a Bad Thing when working with molten lead...

Once the mold and lead is up to temperature, about how long does it take to fill, cool, and empty a mold?

One other thought. Does adding additional lead to the furnace cool it down to the point where you need to wait to continue casting? Would it be worthwhile to have two furnaces in order to work around the re-heating time?

Safety equipment.

I'd expect to be wearing a leather welding apron, leather gloves, some kind of boots, and some form of eye protection. Anything else? I will probably be working outdoors, away from water spatter, with a fan.

Thanks in advance!

BTW, the FAQ seemed to be mostly about forum usage, but if this information is in a FAQ I haven't discovered, I'd certainly appreciate being pointed in the right direction.

I'd also apprecaite any general information that I don't know enough to ask about.

[montana_charlie]

Hello sorenlaf, and welcome.
Yours is one of the most intelligent introductory posts I have seen.
You say what you know (or think you know), or you describe the plan that you plan to finish planning.

You did not just say 'tell me what I need...and how to do it'.

Much of what you want to know relates to areas I don't dabble in, so I will only touch one part of your inquiry.


I tend to be able to set up my work area to allow me to work efficiently, but without rushing - rushing seem like it would be a Bad Thing when working with molten lead...

Once the mold and lead is up to temperature, about how long does it take to fill, cool, and empty a mold?
I cast big 550 grain bullets from a soft alloy, and I want them to be flawless and unfrosted.
To achieve that, it takes (at my rhythm) about 45 seconds per bullet when using a dipper and a single cavity mould.
It's a slow rhythm, with some foolin' around time built in, that keeps everything working at the perfect temperature.

Others will be along to address your other areas of uncertainty...

CM

[sorenlaf]

Hello sorenlaf, and welcome.
Yours is one of the most intelligent introductory posts I have seen.
You say what you know (or think you know), or you describe the plan that you plan to finish planning.

You did not just say 'tell me what I need...and how to do it'.

Much of what you want to know relates to areas I don't dabble in, so I will only touch one part of your inquiry.


I cast big 550 grain bullets from a soft alloy, and I want them to be flawless and unfrosted.
To achieve that, it takes (at my rhythm) about 45 seconds per bullet when using a dipper and a single cavity mould.
It's a slow rhythm, with some foolin' around time built in, that keeps everything working at the perfect temperature.

Others will be along to address your other areas of uncertainty...

CM

Thanks for the kind words and information!

[RayinNH]

I'm considering a Lee Pro 4 20. The reviews on the Midway website suggest it's probably the best offering from Lee.

My experience with other Lee products is that they are well engineered, but often executed somewhat less well.

What are people's experience with that furnace? I know it may dribble a little at times.

That's the pot I use. It does dribble occasionally, but emptying the pot once in a while and cleaning the spout and drop rod fixes that. RCBS is a better pot but costs 5-6 times as much. If money becomes more available someday, the Lee pot can become the pre-heat pot
.
Molds.

The Lee molds look like a good deal, and I like the fact that they will cast 6 as once. However, I'm wondering if they fall into the "too good to be true" catagory.

The Lee moulds are a good deal. They do need tweaking sometimes though, removing burrs and the like( see Leementing). If your firearm has a barrel that falls within the norm you will probably be well served. If you shoot mil-surp firearms you may find the boolits are a tad small. Also use Bullplate sprue lube with your moulds, particularly aluminum.

I will probably buy at least one Lyman 4 cavity mold, their 147gn 9mm truncated cone, because I really like that bullet.

The Lee truncated cone is also a fine boolit though a bit lighter.

The other mold I'll definately be buying is a 45acp 200gn swc. Here, my inclination is to go with the Lee, unless people here recommend otherwise.

I use it as well, but my .45ACP shooting is through a revolver

Lube.

Most of the loads I expect to shoot with cast bullets will be subsonic. Some of my research suggests that dry moly alone will be sufficient (and easy) for loads in the 800-1000 ft/sec range. Any comments or other recommendations?

At those velocities almost anything will work as long as the boolit fits properly. The tumble lubes are easy, Lee Liquid Alox, Rooster Jacket even JPW.

Sizing.

The Lee size dies look both cheap and convenient. Any problems with them?

On both counts, no problem, but they only size, no lube capabilities.

Would there be a significant advantage to a lube-sizer over the Lee dies if I'm not using a hard lube?

Only if you enjoy playing with different lubes.

Casting rate.

I tend to be able to set up my work area to allow me to work efficiently, but without rushing - rushing seem like it would be a Bad Thing when working with molten lead...

Yup.

Once the mold and lead is up to temperature, about how long does it take to fill, cool, and empty a mold?

You should be able to do this every 30-45 sec. without to much problem.

One other thought. Does adding additional lead to the furnace cool it down to the point where you need to wait to continue casting? Would it be worthwhile to have two furnaces in order to work around the re-heating time?

Depends on the size of your recharge ingots. I've never had to wait very long though. When this happens, use the time to pick up boolits off of your catching towel and put them in their respective boxes.

Safety equipment.

I'd expect to be wearing a leather welding apron, leather gloves, some kind of boots, and some form of eye protection. Anything else? I will probably be working outdoors, away from water spatter, with a fan.

First and foremost eye protection is essential. I usually wear long pants, work boots and a long sleeved shirt, but then that is my usual attire. I don't feel gloves are needed unless you open the sprue plate by hand, I use a plastic mallet. If you want gloves, TIG welding gloves are thin and very supple leather.

Others may disagree with me...Ray

Welcome too.

[454PB]

If money is no object, go for the best.

If you're thinking this may not turn out to be your "bag", you can always sell the gear and recover most of the investment.

I started casting before Lee made any casting equipment. Back then, Lyman was the biggest player, and that's what I used.

When Lee began marketing casting equipment, I began using it. I've been pleased with all of it. My oldest Lee bottom draw pot is about 35 years old and still going strong (along side two newer and larger Lee pots). At last count, I had 18 Lee moulds, some of them are also 35 years old and working fine.

I also own RCBS, NEI, and H&G moulds, all quality gear.

The Lee lubing system works fine, although a little slow and messy.

Once you get some casting experience, you should be able to cast anywhere from 200 to 600 boolits per hour, depending on the pot size and mould cavity count. I use two double cavity moulds at once and have found it easier and nearly as fast as using 4 or 6 cavity moulds. If I'm casting lots of heavy boolits, my Lee 20 pounder can keep up as long as additional ingots are added slowly. Naturally, dropping 4 ingots in at once will solidify the entire pot, but adding a pound every 10 minutes or so is do-able if the thermostat is set high. I'm usually ready for a break after 15 pounds or so, so I add ingots and light my pipe.

Which brings us to safety. You shouldn't smoke, eat, or drink while casting! All the PPE you mentioned is a great idea, but after doing this for so many years, my safety gear is restricted to a light pair of work gloves, long sleeve shirt of natural fibers, and boots that cover my ankles. I wear glasses already, if you don't, safety glasses should be used. I have no burn scars and my blood lead levels are just fine.

[Wayne Smith]

I've spattered lead on blue jeans and picked the hardened lead off. Didn't feel it. Ditto on a long sleaved shirt. I wear welding gloves because I hold the mold in my hand to cut the sprue and to close the Lee molds and sprue plate. I believe in being gentle with my molds.

Read the stickies. You will need to slug your barrels to determine your boolit size, and if you don't know how to read a micrometer or don't have one, get one and learn.

You don't have to think about a lubesizer until you want to play with lubes, or if you move up to shooting rifle boolits.

[opentop]

Thumbs up for the LEE pot and 6 cavity molds. They work great for some one starting out. I prefer using LEE 6 Cavity molds, but before you start casting, get some bull plate lube from the bull shop. It is wonderful stuff for aluminum molds and will keep them running good boolits for a long time.

[Echo]

Hi everyone, this is my first post here. I'm looking for some basic casting and equipment information.

I've been reloading for about 15 years and have considered casting my own bullets for a while now.

So...

Welcome, Soren

Equipment.

Casting furnace.

I'm considering a Lee Pro 4 20. The reviews on the Midway website suggest it's probably the best offering from Lee.

My experience with other Lee products is that they are well engineered, but often executed somewhat less well.

What are people's experience with that furnace? I know it may dribble a little at times.

I haven't used this furnace, but have used their 10-pounders, and have no problem there.

Molds.

The Lee molds look like a good deal, and I like the fact that they will cast 6 as once. However, I'm wondering if they fall into the "too good to be true" catagory.

I have several Lee molds, and they are NOT too good to be true. You may have to tune them a little when you get them, but they work.


I will probably buy at least one Lyman 4 cavity mold, their 147gn 9mm truncated cone, because I really like that bullet.

The Lyman 356402 is a standard for the 9mm - I have a 2C and am pleased with the casting, and shooting.


The other mold I'll definately be buying is a 45acp 200gn swc. Here, my inclination is to go with the Lee, unless people here recommend otherwise.

The Lyman 452460 is another standard 200-gr SWC - I have one and use it exclusively in my .45's.

Lube.

Most of the loads I expect to shoot with cast bullets will be subsonic. Some of my research suggests that dry moly alone will be sufficient (and easy) for loads in the 800-1000 ft/sec range. Any comments or other recommendations?

I have no experience w/moly lube. If I knew anything about it, I would probably not recommend it, but What Do I Know? I use a lube-sizer with my boolits. One Lachmiller is loaded w/hard lube, the other w/50/50 NRA lube. I am happy with this arrangement. Others will say that using mule snot works for them, and I believe them. It is a easy process, and if it works, it must be OK.

Sizing.

The Lee size dies look both cheap and convenient. Any problems with them?

Again, I don't use them, but others do, and swear by them, so I believe they work fine.

Would there be a significant advantage to a lube-sizer over the Lee dies if I'm not using a hard lube?

Probably so, in the area of throughput. Using a lube-sizer means that you handle the boolit once - put it in, pull the handle down, crank the lube handle, push the handle back up, pull the lube/sized boolit out, put another in, etc.

With the Lee system, I believe most will say that it is best to give the boolits a light coat first, let dry overnight, run them through the sizer, then give them another light coat, let them dry again, and have at it.

Casting rate.

I tend to be able to set up my work area to allow me to work efficiently, but without rushing - rushing seem like it would be a Bad Thing when working with molten lead...

All deliberate speed is a good thing...


Once the mold and lead is up to temperature, about how long does it take to fill, cool, and empty a mold?

I use a bottom-pour furnace, and from one fill to the next generally runs about 15-20 seconds if the mold is behaving, maybe faster if I use BruceB's method (that works well). Six-gang run a little slower, but overall speed is significantly higher.

One other thought. Does adding additional lead to the furnace cool it down to the point where you need to wait to continue casting? Would it be worthwhile to have two furnaces in order to work around the re-heating time?

It pays to warm up an ingot or two on the lip of the furnace, so they are getting up to temp before they are introduced. Adding one 1-pounder at a time, to a nearly-full pot, won't drop the temperature enough to cause a problem.

And many folks use two furnaces, one to melt the alloy for re-stocking into the casting furnace. I don't.

Safety equipment.

I'd expect to be wearing a leather welding apron, leather gloves, some kind of boots, and some form of eye protection. Anything else? I will probably be working outdoors, away from water spatter, with a fan.

I will probably be yelled at for this. I generally wear shorts, sometime a long-sleeved shirt, grubby old shoes, and definitely socks. I wear glasses, so that is covered. And I wear gloves, nice (OLD!) thin leather work gloves so I can pick up the sprues and put back in the pot, and roll the fresh boolits around for a final QC check, then pushing them into the finished pile. No leather apron, no thick welder's gloves, no face shield. And Yes, I have occasionally gotten a small splash on my unprotected knee, and have lived through the miniscule discomfort. And I cast inside, outside, in a converted storeroom off the garage. (I render out doors)

Thanks in advance!

BTW, the FAQ seemed to be mostly about forum usage, but if this information is in a FAQ I haven't discovered, I'd certainly appreciate being pointed in the right direction.

I'd also apprecaite any general information that I don't know enough to ask about.

I imagine there will be some disagreements from others on this forum, but this procedure works for me. As you may have guessed, I'm only sorta anal about this casting effort.

[montana_charlie]

I will probably be yelled at for this. I generally wear shorts, sometime a long-sleeved shirt, grubby old shoes, and definitely socks. I wear glasses, so that is covered. And I wear gloves, nice (OLD!) thin leather work gloves so I can pick up the sprues and put back in the pot, and roll the fresh boolits around for a final QC check, then pushing them into the finished pile. No leather apron, no thick welder's gloves, no face shield. And Yes, I have occasionally gotten a small splash on my unprotected knee, and have lived through the miniscule discomfort. And I cast inside, outside, in a converted storeroom off the garage. (I render out doors)

In general, I agree that sophisticated protective gear is not a requirement...although I can't abide wearing shorts (or sandals).

I always dress in boots, jeans, and a long-sleeved shirt. And, I always have a pair of buckskin gloves...on my hands, or in my hip pocket.
So, I can turn on the pot and go to casting at any time...or repair a barbed wire fence...or brand calves...without even wondering if I am sufficiently prepared.

(The stuff that squirts out of a branded calf might make pretty good flux, after it's good and dry. That would make two things it's good for...Hmmm...?)

CM

[MtGun44]

I would avoid a 6 cav Lee until you are experienced with their two cavity mold.

Their 356-124-TC mold is an excellent 9mm boolit. Save some heartache and start with
a conventional lube, save the experimentation for after you are successful.

Bill

[Willbird]

Lee 6 cavity molds are excellent. And I do not think you will have any harder time with one than with a 2 cavity mold. Myself I HATE tumble lube and tumble lube bullets, so I would suggest a lube sizer and lube groove bullets.

[WHITETAIL]

:coffeecom+1 with Willbird.
:cbpour:

[Echo]

In general, I agree that sophisticated protective gear is not a requirement...although I can't abide wearing shorts (or sandals).


CM

:-)
Yeah, but Charlie, you live up in Big Country where it even snows inside, or so I've been told. Here in AZ, I wear shorts ALL THE TIME - we are rather laid back here in Tucson...

And, not being a tree-hugger, I don't wear sandals...

[sucngas]

From one newbie to another. I just started and was in a very similar situation a few weeks ago. I ordered the lee 10 lb pot with the bottom pour. I love it. I'm not coordinated enough to use a dipper and a mold at the same time. I also ordered a Lee mold for .450 conicals. I followed the directions that Lee provides. Cleaned it, lubed it, smoked it, and pre heated it by holding the corner in the melted lead until it was hot enough the lead wouldn't stick to it. I cast probably 200-300 bullets in about 2 hours with a two cavity mold. I am not the biggest Lee fan when it comes to reloading equipment, but I didn't want to spend a whole lot of money to get started, so I bought lee. I was VERY impressed with the Lee casting equipment.

[montana_charlie]

:-)
Yeah, but Charlie, you live up in Big Country where it even snows inside, or so I've been told. Here in AZ, I wear shorts ALL THE TIME - we are rather laid back here in Tucson...
Yeah but...

While it's true that I currently live where it gets colder than a stepmother's heart, I did most of my growing up in Texas, Oklahoma, and New Mexico.

Never wore shorts down there, either.
CM