Trigger!

[docone31]

Ok, this is for the experts.
I got my wife an old CVA .45 Kentucky rifle. It has a single trigger. She likes it, and is comfortable with it.
I want to put a set, or double set trigger in the place of the single trigger.
Which trigger will drop in?
I know there is one for it, it came with two types of triggers originally.
Any clues?

[rhbrink]

Does it have a fly on the tumbler? If so about any that would fit the profile of the stock would work. If not then there are some single set triggers that would work but I have never like them, to me they are awkward you have to set the trigger then bring the hammer back to full cock.

[docone31]

I haven't removed it yet.
I agree with the single sets, they are awkward.
I will probably have to remove the single trigger, then compare and get. TOW has a good selection.
I do like triggers that feel good.

[rhbrink]

You can tell if it has a fly without removing the lock, hope I say this right. With the hammer all the way down on the nipple guessing it's a capper. pull the hammer back to full cock, now hold the hammer and pull the trigger let the hammer down while holding it if it slides by the half cock notch (safety notch) all the way down it has a fly, if it is going down and catches on the half cock safety notch then it does not have a fly. Hope this makes sense.

[docone31]

Welll then, it acts as if it has a fly.
Looking at it, I guess the trigger it has is enough for now.
My wife does like it. With 70gns of RS, and a R.E.A.L. it hits hard.
It was her first caplock.
I am hopeing to find a drop in.

[twotoescharlie]

I have one of these rifles, single trigger, no fly.

TTC

[docone31]

They are suprisingly accurate rifles!
The one I got my wife, had a ball and charge stuck in the barrel. Quite probably for years.
The barrel was rusty also.
Once I got the barrel clear, that was also embarassing, I put valve lapping compound as lube in the R.E.A.L. lube grooves. 20rds done that way, and I have nice sharp rifleing. The patch goes down without feeling roughness.
Shoots real well.
Maybe the single trigger is good enough.
If it ain't broke, don't fix it!
She likes that one, and the .54. Both comfortable for her.

[oldhickory]

I don't care for set triggers myself. I much prefer a well fitted, crisp, standard, single trigger that breaks at around 2-2 1/2 lbs.

[buckweet]

well, now ?

talkin triggers, i ''used'' to think ALL blackpowder rifles triggers where junk.

even the dual set triggers had way to much grit.

untill one day, as i was walkin through the woods. and came across a little green man, wearing a blue hat,

he was holding an underhammer rifle, said here try this !!! ....wow, awsome wonderfull trigger.!

then i woke up.

and ordered a underhammer rifle. my dream came true. wonderfull single triggers on them.

[waksupi]

I believe the single hung trigger is better for most shooters. When installed with the pivot point near the sear screw level, it is easy to get a consistent light pull. A trigger hung low on the trigger bar, is a travesty. But, these are fairly easy to convert.
If she likes it, and is comfortable with it, why are you changing it?

[docone31]

Ah, I like to fiddle!
I might just leave this one be though.
She does like it, and if she likes it, we go to the range more often.
I think I will leave it be.

[GrizzLeeBear]

I believe the single hung trigger is better for most shooters. When installed with the pivot point near the sear screw level, it is easy to get a consistent light pull. A trigger hung low on the trigger bar, is a travesty. But, these are fairly easy to convert.
If she likes it, and is comfortable with it, why are you changing it?

+1!

I started out with set triggers. Lyman Great Plains. Cabelas Hawken. Then my dad and I built some custom long rifles w/ set triggers.

Then we built me a .54 cal. hunting rifle about 6 - 7 years ago. After using the set triggers I decided I wanted to build this one with a single trigger. I never liked having to think about setting the trigger while getting ready to shoot at deer. We used a trigger that has a post that raises the pivot point up closer to the sear screw level, like waksupi said. It is the best trigger out of all of them! I've never weighed it, but I'm guessing its about 3 lb.s and smooth and crisp. Oh, its also a flintlock, and the MOST reliable muzzleloader I have owned, including the Knight MK-85 that was my first muzzleloader.

Like you said, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. If your wife likes it, its her gun, leave it alone. Set triggers are NOT always better. It takes experience and discipline to learn how to use one, and many people just don't like a "hair" trigger.

[buckweet]

+1!

like waksupi said. .................................................. . Oh, its also a flintlock, and the MOST reliable muzzleloader I have owned, including the Knight MK-85 that was my first muzzleloader.

Like you said, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. If your wife likes it, its her gun, leave it alone. Set triggers are NOT always better. It takes experience and discipline to learn how to use one, and many people just don't like a "hair" trigger.






i keep hearing that about flintlocks.....i just may, get my hands on one....

one of these days,

[waksupi]

Tim, if you are interested in muzzleloaders, you need a flinter. They are the true way.

[buckweet]

Tim, if you are interested in muzzleloaders, you need a flinter. They are the true way.





yes, im going to have to get one...


thinking a tenneessee/kentucky, squirrel rifle , in .36

but when i do.. it will be a high, quality. maybe a hershel house ? rifle.

maybe i might intertain the ideal of a [.40]

hershel house. ha, a guy can dream......

[Captain*Kirk]

Oh.....if only I could find my way to a Lyman Great Plains flinter in .54 cal....and not break the bank!
I've spent way too much on guns I don't shoot enough. Can't justify spending more money at this point, but...(drool, drool) a Great Plains flinter in .54 cal....
But 700 clams is out of the question now. It'll have to wait.

[buckweet]

Oh.....if only I could find my way to a Lyman Great Plains flinter in .54 cal....and not break the bank!
I've spent way too much on guns I don't shoot enough. Can't justify spending more money at this point, but...(drool, drool) a Great Plains flinter in .54 cal....
But 700 clams is out of the question now. It'll have to wait.





CAP, kirk,you got me thinkin ?

i have a lyman .50 gpr,

re/bore to fifty-four, get a flintlock....lock.

just a thought[smilie=b:

[FL-Flinter]

Personally I tend to prefer a single-acting trigger and that doesn't matter if it's on a flinter, underhammer or suppository gun. Smooth and consistent is the key, even more so than the actual pull weight which I prefer to be in the 4-6 pound range for a hunting gun because I know far too many people who have missed or crippled critters because the trigger was too-light. Consider that most folks hunt where it's cold and cold fingers or gloves reduce the amount of feeling and sensitivity ... goes right along with folks who get fitted for a gun when it's 85°F and completely forget about the nine layers of clothes they're going to be wearing on the hunt when it's 13°F outside.


Hey Tim ... about them flinters ... a Virginia or Lancaster ...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v474/markkw/Gun%20work/P1020127.jpg


or perhaps a half-stock?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v474/markkw/Cracker54cal/cracker54left.jpg

[rhbrink]

That's cruel you guys sure go out of your way to hurt a fellow.

[Boz330]

OOOOHHHHH that halfstock is purdy.

Bob

[Captain*Kirk]

CAP, kirk,you got me thinkin ?

i have a lyman .50 gpr,

re/bore to fifty-four, get a flintlock....lock.

just a thought[smilie=b:

Most of the reviews I've read on the GPR fault the lock as being the weak link; slow and weak-springed. With a nice double trigger job, new lock and bored to .54, you might have one heck of a nice rifle there!
I just love the rustic look of the hardware and wood on that gun. Maybe it's just me.....:smile:

[northmn]

Single triggers make the best hunting guns as a couple have mentioned. I put a DST on my 25 squirrel rifle because I had one in my pile of stuff and did not have to buy one and it is more appropriate for a Tennessee, but were I to do so over again it would be a single. As Waksupi said they need to have a high pivot. Another trick I use is to mount a spring in one like the old shotguns so that the spring maintains contact with the sear and there is no slack. You can also hold a single trigger back and cock the gun and eliminate the Click of lock engagement. May or may not be important to you. I had a nice rifle break through the wrist that I partly blame on the DST as you need to remove a lot of wood to install one.

Northmn

[FL-Flinter]

rhbrink,

Sorry. Wasn't intended to be hurtful, just pointing out some options.

Bob,

Thanks for the compliments. I originally built that one for my wife but the botched carpal tunnel operation left her right hand crippled up so she can't shoot it ... a year later we found out she didn't have c/t to being with... so it's available. 15/16" x .54 x 1:66 x 33"

Have to agree with Northmn on the cocking without the click, just be sure you don't let buck-fever get in the way of making sure you get positive sear engagement on the full-cock notch. When building the thin-wristed varieties where a DST is PC, there are several ways to reinforce the wrist to help prevent breakage.

Back to what Waksupi said, the closer the sear bar sits to the trigger pivot point, the lighter the pull will be because the leverage is increased. If the trigger pivot is set too far ahead, sometimes you can fudge a little by bending/extending the sear bar but this does require heating and re-heat treating the sear.

[buckweet]

Personally I tend to prefer a single-acting trigger and that doesn't matter if it's on a flinter, underhammer or suppository gun. Smooth and consistent is the key, even more so than the actual pull weight which I prefer to be in the 4-6 pound range for a hunting gun because I know far too many people who have missed or crippled critters because the trigger was too-light. Consider that most folks hunt where it's cold and cold fingers or gloves reduce the amount of feeling and sensitivity ... goes right along with folks who get fitted for a gun when it's 85°F and completely forget about the nine layers of clothes they're going to be wearing on the hunt when it's 13°F outside.


Hey Tim ... about them flinters ... a Virginia or Lancaster ...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v474/markkw/Gun%20work/P1020127.jpg


or perhaps a half-stock?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v474/markkw/Cracker54cal/cracker54left.jpg






grrrr.....mark, i thoughts we waz friends, ?

but nooooo !!!

not now , not no how... tormenting a guy like that..shame on you.

you gots lay-away ? haha.

[not kidding] ....:drinks:

[buckweet]

ohhhhhhhhhhhhhh myyyyyyyyy .... lancaster.........[love at 1st sight]

details man !!!! details !!!!

more pictures !!!!

im starting to feel, woosey.........

[buckweet]

im digging in safe.... gotta be something he'll trade for ? what you guys thinks ?

[docone31]

You know,
this thread got delightfully hijacked!
I am loving every minute of it.
I got my question answered, and now I get to see two beautiful rifles! I mean beautiful!
I got a hankerin to make me a Carson Hawken fullstock some day.
Those full stocks just feel like they belong.

[buckweet]

You know,
this thread got delightfully hijacked!
I am loving every minute of it.
I got my question answered, and now I get to see two beautiful rifles! I mean beautiful!
I got a hankerin to make me a Carson Hawken fullstock some day.
Those full stocks just feel like they belong.





carson hawken ? full stock ?

pictures please :D

dang it, now i've got my dander up, and thinkin ? ''flintlock'' .40 or .45....

heck ? if .45 good enuff fer ol' boon, i'll take a flinter ,

nothing, and i mean -nothing- looks as good as a curly maple full stock flinter, small bore.

i type this as im holding my underhammer .45..... help me boys !

[405]

At least the OP is doing the hijacking:) all good stuff tho.

If you're thinking of Kit Carson's Hawken... I think it is an S. Hawken rifle that is in the Masonic Lodge in Santa Fe NM, last I heard. It is a classic, caplock, half-stock plains Hawken in 53/54 cal. I don't know if Kit Carson ever owned a full-stock Hawken. However, depending upon special order or market, some of the real Hawken guns were also made in full-stock. (a TC "Hawken" for example is not a very close copy of either an S. or J&S Hawken rifle of any kind. The term "Hawken" has become generic to some form of Plains rifle that may or may not resemble the real thing)

Quite a few makers around have built most types of the original Hawken guns. Seems, IIRC, there was a surge of interest beginning about the mid-1970s in these types. Track of the Wolf, and others have pretty good Hawken copy kits and/or complete rifles.
Here's a link to one such group of pretty accurate Hawken repros with pics -FYI-

http://www.donstith.com/kit_carson.html

[buckweet]

At least the OP is doing the hijacking:) all good stuff tho.

If you're thinking of Kit Carson's Hawken... I think it is an S. Hawken rifle that is in the Masonic Lodge in Santa Fe NM, last I heard. It is a classic, caplock, half-stock plains Hawken in 53/54 cal. I don't know if Kit Carson ever owned a full-stock Hawken. However, depending upon special order or market, some of the real Hawken guns were also made in full-stock. (a TC "Hawken" for example is not a very close copy of either an S. or J&S Hawken rifle of any kind. The term "Hawken" has become generic to some form of Plains rifle that may or may not resemble the real thing)

Quite a few makers around have built most types of the original Hawken guns. Seems, IIRC, there was a surge of interest beginning about the mid-1970s in these types. Track of the Wolf, and others have pretty good Hawken copy kits and/or complete rifles.
Here's a link to one such group of pretty accurate Hawken repros with pics -FYI-

http://www.donstith.com/kit_carson.html





thanks . for the link.
wow.nice. very nice.

[northmn]

There was a tremendous interest in Hawkens in the 1970's thanks to a book written by Baird called "Hawken Rifles, the Mountainman's Choice" he made it sound as if no true mountain man carried anything else. Hansen, a curater at the fur trade museum in Nebraska got a little upset when he heard about an individual that mortgaged his house to buy an original Hawken and wrote a book called the "Hawken Rifle, Its Place in History" Essentially the Hawken was made a little late for the fur trade, where trade guns made in Lancaster were more common. Also the Hawken was an expensive rifle in its time. The Hawken is a good rifle but so are many others. A few years ago they made a "Santa Fe" Hawken in 52 caliber, whcih as I understand may not have lived up to the quality standards wanted as it was made in Italy??? A very good hunting rifle in percussion is a Leman Trade Rifle. Ironically the TC Hawken does not look aything like a Hawken while the Lyman Plains Rifle does have a closer resemblance.

Northmn

[waksupi]

If you want an earlier Hawken, you need to go with a full stock flint type. Hawkens were making rifles long before they were considered "the" rifle.
The first deer I ever shot in Montana many years ago, was with an original Hawken full stock, that had been converted to cap lock.

[405]

I don't know the relative numbers of Hawkens vs other type muzzleloaders used during the fur trade. They were one of many types used- and more expensive so fewer in relative numbers for sure. There was only about a 20 year window in history for the golden age of the fur trade.. about 1820-1840. Jim Bridger and others carried Hawken rifles and for sure they were part of the fur trade era and history. The greatest numbers of a single type marketed West as a style group may well have been the Leman trade gun and other similar types. I guess the TC "Hawken" IF you took the "whatisit?" trigger guard off and replaced it with a much simpler style and went to a single trigger you could say it resembles a trade gun.??

[jim4065]

Oh.....if only I could find my way to a Lyman Great Plains flinter in .54 cal....and not break the bank!
I've spent way too much on guns I don't shoot enough. Can't justify spending more money at this point, but...(drool, drool) a Great Plains flinter in .54 cal....
But 700 clams is out of the question now. It'll have to wait.

A GPR flintlock in .50 isn't bad, since you can always get a spare drop-in barrel in .54.

[northmn]

Kit Carson was thought to have carried the Hawken in his later years as a guide and not during the fur trade, ie after 1840. Doesn't really matter all that much as a few were made by Jake for the fur trade. There are pictures of rifles made by Derringer?(spelling, one or two r's) Leman, some Lancaster and Henry rifles in the Trade Rifle Sketch Book. Most modern rifles are much handier to use and carry than the originals. Many of the originals had very long heavy barrels such as one at 1 1/16 in 50 cal and 42 inches long. Our reproductions and the production rifles are much more "modern" with lighter barrels. Swamped barrels are an exception as are the tapered barrels common to Hawkens, but they were very heavy at the breech and tapered lighter to the muzzle and balanced different.

Northmn

[405]

Agree with that! especially if you're used to carrying around even a long barreled but light, well balanced "Penn/Kentucky" or even a relatively short, light trade gun.

I've carried a 33" X 1 1/8" 54 cal Hawken replica more vertical miles than this older body could imagine now! No mas, no mas. A few things it did though was tame recoil to downright mild in heavier loads and was super steady and accurate off any kind of rest. Also, that big gun slowed me down a little and forced better still hunting skills.
I put this 12 1/2 lb trail anchor together almost 40 years ago

[northmn]

Pretty wood on that gun. I bet carrying it did build up a little muscle or let you know you had some you didn't know you had. As you say though a heavy gun is steady. Never hurts to be slowed down out in the field anyway. Beautiful wood. One thing I forgot to mention that may also help date a trade gun is the fact that according to invenotories and records, flintlocks were used/preferred for the Western trade until sometime in the 1840's.

DP

[blackpowder man]

Impact guns has lyman GPRs for $409.99 .50 caliber and $405.99 .54 caliber both flint and both are finished not kits. Kit for .50 caliber is $317.99 for flint. I shoot a .54 GPR in percussion that shoots great, but it sure will burn through a pound of powder quick like. As far as the original trigger question I've had good luck with drop in replacement stuff from Dixie gun Works.

[northmn]

If you check outfits like Track of the Wolf you will also see that L&R makes drop in locks for a variety of production guns, including Lyman and there is a reason why they do. That is often a better route than getting a coil springed lock. Most of the Spanish/ Italian guns with single triggers have them hinged too low. The trigger pin should be high for more leverage. They can easily be made better by getting a replacment trigger and pinning them in where they should be.

Northmn