Ed's Red

[carpetman]

If Ed's Red has been mentioned,I missed it. Hard to believe it hasn't been. It's my understanding that Ed Somebody (too lazy to do a search and ascertain his correct name)wanted to duplicate Hoppes. He came up with 4 ingredients and an optional 5th ingredient. I think the basic concept is pretty simple but there are those that make it technical to the nth degree. Take a quart each of these 4 things and you aint gonna believe this--even you folks that use the metric system wont believe it---unreal,but you will make a gallon of it. (1)ATF automatic transmission fluid( some will list all sorts of specs--I think any will work) (2) turpentine or mineral spirits (3)kerosene--You can get lamp oil--it will cost more ,but might be easier to find ,and it's scented (4)acetone. Mix these 4 things and the optional thing is a dab or glob(both technical terms for an unmeasured amount)of anhydrous lanolin. ( I think the main purpose of the lanolin is rust preventive). I store mine in an empty Coleman fuel container. I refill a Hoppes jar as needed. I made my batch several years ago and the container is working fine---some might say you have to store it in glass. I use it as a general purpose/bore cleaner and I like the stuff.

[NVcurmudgeon]

I make my Ed's Red with only three ingredients: ATF, Kerosene, and Mineral Spirits. I leave out the Acetone because some say that it is dangerous if you use Ed's indoors, and it will work well, but a little slower without acetone.
Rust preventive? My guns don't rust, they hardly cool off!

[carpetman]

NVcurmudgeon---At first I thought about the time I get you in step you gotta go complicate things. Got you wearing Thorlo socks,you have a Sheridan, and ofcourse a Lyman ingot mold with a backwards N. But you leave the acetone out of Ed's Red???? You cant make a gallon out of 3 qts. Well,heck I figured 3 outta 4 things aint bad. Then I figured it all out. You are closer to Canada so you are getting those Canadian quarts and probably 3 of them would be a gallon????

[Scrounger]

NVcurmudgeon---At first I thought about the time I get you in step you gotta go complicate things. Got you wearing Thorlo socks,you have a Sheridan, and ofcourse a Lyman ingot mold with a backwards N. But you leave the acetone out of Ed's Red???? You cant make a gallon out of 3 qts. Well,heck I figured 3 outta 4 things aint bad. Then I figured it all out. You are closer to Canada so you are getting those Canadian quarts and probably 3 of them would be a gallon????

If CarpetMan is getting into higher math here, he's going to need these:

1 Imperial quart = 1.13652297 liters
1 US quart = 0.94635295 liter
1 US quart = 0.832673844 Imperial quart

[NVcurmudgeon]

Carpetman, I saw this metric thing coming long ago. I carry in my wallet a little card I made up listing all the common American and metric liquid containers from half pint to half gallon*. Each size container is converted to sensible American ounces. That way I can readily tell that a 750 milliliter bottle holds 26.4 ounces, while a fifth has a capacity of a mere 25.6 ounces. The American quart trails the metric liter by 3.2 ounces, (32 vs. 35.2 ounces.) However, the noble American half gallon beats the metric 1.75 liter by 2.4 ounces, (64 ounces to 61.6.) So my advice is, Be American, buy American, and demand half gallon adult beverage bottles.

* All ounce equivalents rounded off to nearest tenth ounce.

[tall grass]

I found the recipe that I use for "Ed's Red" on an other board. I think it was a chemist that modified it and it sounded good to me. Seems to work just fine.

1 qt. ATF
1 qt. xylene
1 qt. M.E.K.

Well thats only 3 quarts isn't it. It does go in a gallon can though.

Jim

[shooter575]

Yo Tallgrass, Be carefull with that MEK. It is sorta nasty stuff. Causes dame brammage if you live in Ka. It males a good plastic solvent and is the hardner for polyester rosen[fiberglass] I think it is worse than aceatone?

[waksupi]

I'd pass on both the MEK, and xylene. Nasty stuff. I'll stick with the original formula.

[StarMetal]

I worked with both those chemical at the oil refinery , especially MEK, my unit was called the MEK Unit, and that was our solvent for our process. Very very bad stuff. You don't need either of those two for a bore cleaner. The original formula is the best one and I might add safer.

Joe

[NVcurmudgeon]

NOW I find our about MEK! If memory serves, MEK was used in paint which I brushed on US Navy ships nearly 50 years ago. Come to think of it, if MEK causes brain damage, how can I remember?

[MARCORVET]

MEK is as safe as any other solvent, as long as it is not ingested, or absorbed thru broken skin. I would reccomend that you wear gloves and a respirator if you are going to use a lot of it. I f you have any questions obout chemicals, check the MSDS for it. You can find them at www.msdssearch.com As I recall from the haxmat classes I have had, MEK is the ONLY solvent we used that did not sbsorb thru the skin!

[wills]

[QUOTE=carpetman]If Ed's Red has been mentioned,I missed it. Hard to believe it hasn't been. It's my understanding that Ed Somebody (too lazy to do a search and ascertain his correct name)wanted to duplicate Hoppes. He QUOTE]

I think it was Ed Harris
"Ed Harris is a well known, knowledgable gun writer with years of
experience working for Ruger and the US government."

[mike in co]

By C.E., "Ed" Harris
"Ed's Red" Bore Cleaner... Home-Mix Really Works!
Updated and Revised 9-29-95
Four years ago I mixed my first "Ed's Red" or "ER" bore cleaner and hundreds of
users have told me that they think this home-mixed cleaner is more effective
than commercial products. I urge you to mix some and give it a fair trial,
compared to whatever you have been using. Competitive shooters, gun clubs and
police departments who use a gallon or more of rifle bore cleaner annually can
save by mixing their own, and they will give up nothing in safety or
effectiveness.
This cleaner has an action very similar to standard military issue rifle bore
cleaner, such as Mil-C-372B. Users report it is more effective than Hoppe's for
removing plastic fouling in shotgun bores, or caked carbon fouling in
semi-automatic rifles or pistols, or in removing leading in revolvers. It is not
as effective as Sweets 7.62, Hoppe's Bench Rest Nine or Shooter's Choice for
fast removal of heavy copper fouling in rifle bores. However, because "ER" is
more effective in removing caked carbon and abrasive primer residues than other
cleaners, metal fouling is greatly reduced when "ER" is used on a continuing
basis.
I originally came up with this mix because I am an active high power rifle
competitive shooter and hand loading experimenter who uses a lot of rifle bore
cleaner. I was not satisfied with the performance and high price of commercial
products. I knew there was no technical reason why an effective firearm bore
cleaner couldn't be mixed using common hardware store ingredients. The result is
inexpensive, effective, provides good corrosion protection and adequate residual
lubrication so that routine "oiling" after cleaning is rarely necessary, except
for long-term storage of over 1 year, or harsh service environments, such as
salt water exposure.
This formula is based on proven principles and incorporates two polar and two
nonpolar solvents. It is adapted from the one in Hatcher's Notebook for
"Frankford Arsenal Cleaner No.18," but substituting equivalent modern materials.
I had the help of an organic chemist in doing this and we knew there would be no
"surprises." The original Hatcher formula called for equal parts of acetone,
turpentine, Pratts Astral Oil and sperm oil, and optionally 200 grams of
anhydrous lanolin added per liter. Some discussion of the ingredients is helpful
to understand the properties of the cleaner and how it works.
Pratts Astral oil was nothing more than acid free, deodorized kerosene. I
recommend "K1" kerosene of the type normally sold for use in indoor space
heaters. Some users have reported successful substitution of civilian aviation
grade kerosene such as Turbo-A. I am reluctant to "recommend" substitution of
aviation grade kerosene, because the effects upon firearm components of the
additives required in aviation fuels are unknown. Some "jet- fuels" are
gasoline/kerosene blends and absolutely should not be used, because of their
increased flammability.
An inexpensive, effective substitute for sperm oil is Dexron (II, IIe or III)
automatic transmission fluid. Prior to about 1950 that most ATF's were sperm oil
based, but during WWII a synthetic was developed for use in precision
instruments. With the great demand for automatic transmission autos after WWII,
sperm oil was no longer practical to produce ATF in the quantity demanded, so
the synthetic material became the basis for the Dexron fluids we know today. The
additives in ATFs which include organometallic antioxidants and surfactants,
make it highly suitable for inclusion in an all-purpose
cleaner-lubricant-preservative.
Hatcher's original Frankford Arsenal No. 18 formula used gum spirits of
turpentine. Because turpentine is expensive today, and is also an "aromatic"
solvent, which is highly flammable, I chose not to use it. Safer and cheaper is
"aliphatic mineral spirits," a petroleum based "safety solvent" used for
thinning oil based paints and also widely used as an automotive parts cleaner.
It is commonly sold under the names "odorless mineral spirits," "Stoddard
Solvent" or "Varsol".
Acetone is included in "ER" to provide an aggressive, fast-acting solvent for
caked powder residues. Because acetone is an aromatic, organic solvent, it is
recommended that users leave it out if the cleaner will be used in enclosed
spaces lacking forced air ventilation. The acetone in ER will evaporate,
liberating volatile organic compounds (VOCs) into the atmosphere unless
containers are kept tightly closed when not in use. The cleaner is still
effective without the acetone, but it is not as "fast-acting."
There isn't anything in Ed's Red which chemically dissolves copper fouling in
rifle bores, but it does a better job removing on carbon and primer residue than
anything else which is safe and commonly available. Numerous users have told me,
that exclusive use of "ER" reduces copper deposits, because it removes the old
impacted powder fouling which is left by other cleaners, which reduces the
abrasion and adhesion of jacket metal to the bore surface, leaving a cleaner
surface condition which reduces subsequent fouling. Experience seems to indicate
that "ER" will actually remove metal fouling it if you let it "soak," so the
surfactants will do the job, though you have to be patient.
Addition of the lanolin to ER bore cleaner mix is entirely optional. The cleaner
works quite well and gives adequate corrosion protection and lubrication for
most users without it. Incorporating the lanolin makes the cleaner easier on the
hands, and increases lubricity and film strength, and improves corrosion
protection if weapons will be routinely exposed to salt air, water spray,
industrial or urban corrosive atmospheres, or if you intend to use the cleaner
as a protectant for long term storage of over 1 year.
If you use other protective films for adverse use or long term storage you can
leave the lanolin out and save about $8 per gallon. At current retail prices you
can buy all the ingredients to mix ER, without the lanolin for about $10 per
gallon. I urge you to mix some yourself. I am confident it will work as well for
you as it does for me and hundreds of users who got the "recipe" on the Fidonet
Firearms Echo.

[mike in co]

CONTENTS: Ed's Red Bore Cleaner
1 part Dexron II, IIe or III ATF, GM Spec. D-20265 or later.
1 part Kerosene - deodorized, K1
1 part Aliphatic Mineral Spirits, Fed. Spec. TT-T-2981F, CAS #64741-49-9, or may
substitute "Stoddard Solvent", CAS #8052-41-3, or equivalent, (aka "Varsol")
1 part Acetone, CAS #67-64-1.
(Optional up to 1 lb. of Lanolin, Anhydrous, USP per gallon, OK to substitute
Lanolin, Modified, Topical Lubricant, from the drug store)
MIXING INSTRUCTIONS FOR "ER" BORE CLEANER:
Mix outdoors, in good ventilation. Use a clean 1 gallon metal,
chemical-resistant, heavy gage PET or PVC plastic container. NFPA approved
plastic gasoline storage containers are also OK. Do NOT use HDPE, which is
permeable, because the acetone will eventually evaporate. The acetone in ER will
also attack HDPE, causing the container to collapse, making a heck of a mess!
Add the ATF first. Use the empty container to measure the other components, so
that it is thoroughly rinsed. If you incorporate the lanolin into the mixture,
melt this carefully in a double boiler, taking precautions against fire. Pour
the melted lanolin it into a larger container, rinsing the lanolin container
with the bore cleaner mix, and stirring until it is all dissolved.
I recommend diverting a small quantity, up to 4 ozs. per quart of the 50-50
ATF/kerosene mix for optional use as an "ER-compatible" gun oil. This can be
done without impairing the effectiveness of the remaining mix.
LABEL AND NECESSARY SAFETY WARNINGS:
RIFLE BORE CLEANER
CAUTION:
FLAMMABLE MIXTURE
HARMFUL IF SWALLOWED.
KEEP OUT OF REACH OF CHILDREN
Flammable mixture. Keep away from heat, sparks or flame.
FIRST AID, If swallowed DO NOT induce vomiting, call physician immediately. In
case of eye contact immediately flush thoroughly with water and call a
physician. For skin contact wash thoroughly.
Use with adequate ventilation. Avoid breathing vapors or spray mist. It is a
violation of Federal law to use this product in a manner inconsistent with its
labelling. Reports have associated repeated and prolonged occupational
overexposure to solvents with permanent brain and nervous system damage. If
using in closed armory vaults lacking forced air ventilation wear respiratory
protection meeting NIOSH TC23C or equivalent. Keep container tightly closed
when not in use.
INSTRUCTIONS FOR USING "Ed's Red (ER)" Bore Cleaner:
Open the firearm action and ensure the bore is clear. Cleaning is most
effective when done while the barrel is still warm to the touch from firing.
Saturate a cotton patch with bore cleaner, wrap or impale on jag and push it
through the bore from breech to muzzle. The patch should be a snug fit. Let
the first patch fall off and do not pull it back into the bore.
Wet a second patch, and similarly start it into the bore from the breech, this
time scrubbing from the throat area forward in 4-5" strokes and gradually
advancing until the patch emerges out the muzzle. Waiting approximately 1
minute to let the bore cleaner soak will improve its action.
For pitted, heavily carbon-fouled "rattle battle" guns, leaded revolvers or
neglected bores a bronze brush wet with bore cleaner may be used to remove
stubborn deposits. This is unnecessary for smooth, target-grade barrels in
routine use.
Use a final wet patch pushed straight through the bore to flush out loosened
residue dissolved by Ed's Red. Let the patch fall off the jag without pulling
it back into the bore. If you are finished firing, leaving the bore wet will
protect it from rust for 1 year under average conditions.
If the lanolin is incorporated into the mixture, it will protect the firearm
from rust for up to two years. For longer term storage I recommend use of Lee
Liquid Alox as a Cosmolene substitute. "ER" will readily remove hardened Alox
or Cosmolene.
Wipe spilled Ed's Red from exterior surfaces before storing the gun. While
Ed's Red is harmless to blue and nickel finishes, the acetone it contains is
harmful to most wood finishes).
Before firing again, push two dry patches through the bore and dry the
chamber, using a patch wrapped around a suitably sized brush or jag. First
shot point of impact usually will not be disturbed by Ed's Red if the bore is
cleaned as described.
I have determined to my satisfaction that when Ed's Red is used exclusively
and thoroughly, that hot water cleaning is unnecessary after use of Pyrodex or
military chlorate primers. However, if bores are not wiped between shots and
shots and are heavily caked from black powder fouling, hot water cleaning is
recommended first to break up heavy fouling deposits. Water cleaning should be
followed by a thorough flush with Ed's Red to prevent after-rusting which
could result from residual moisture. It is ALWAYS good practice to clean
TWICE, TWO DAYS APART whenever using chlorate primed ammunition, just to make
sure you get all the corrosive residue out.
This "Recipe" is placed in the public domain, and may be freely distributed
provided that it is done so in its entirely with all current revisions,
instructions and safety warnings included herein, and that proper attribution is
given to the author.
In Home Mix We Trust, Regards, Ed

[woody1]

[QUOTE=carpetman]If Ed's Red has been mentioned,I missed it. Hard to believe it hasn't been. It's my understanding that Ed Somebody (too lazy to do a search and ascertain his correct name)wanted to duplicate Hoppes. He QUOTE]

I think it was Ed Harris
"Ed Harris is a well known, knowledgable gun writer with years of
experience working for Ruger and the US government."

It was Ed Harris and he GAVE us Ed's Red just as Felix gave us FWFL. Thanks to both. Regards, Woody

[tall grass]

Yah I know that MEK is nasty stuff but always thought that acetone was probably just as bad. I know that it doesn't evaporate as fast as acetone. In any event, I'll not be sniffin' any more 'Ed's Red' than I have to, what ever it's got in it.

Thanks for the warning. And Oh... I don't think the dame bamage is from just the MEK.

Jim

[StarMetal]

The danger is not just from the fumes, it's also through absorption through the skin.

Joe

[Bug]

Ya' really want a kick in the head???

The other day, I saw where Brownell's is selling this stuff commercially!
I can't imagine anyone that would use Ed's Red, that wouldn't mix up their own. Bet they buy their cast bullets, too! Anyway, I hope Mr. Harris is getting a nice stipend. He deserves it!

[45 2.1]

ED mentioned that someone had contacted him about commercially producing Ed's Red. He didn't mention anything about collecting for it since he put out the formula to everyone with the only stipulation of the warnings going with the formula.
You would be absolutely amazed at how many people do not cast and buy factory ammo and commercial cast bullets to load. We as casters are a minority.

[C1PNR]

ED mentioned that someone had contacted him about commercially producing Ed's Red. He didn't mention anything about collecting for it since he put out the formula to everyone with the only stipulation of the warnings going with the formula.
You would be absolutely amazed at how many people do not cast and buy factory ammo and commercial cast bullets to load. We as casters are a minority.
That point was Hammered home to me at the last gun show. I asked several people where the boolit moulds were, and almost to a man they said, "no one casts their own any more" with "Dummy" kind of an unspoken add on.

I knew Boise was getting to be a hotbed of "Progressive Thinking," but I sure didn't know it extended even to the Shooting Arts!:-?

[waksupi]

Yep, Brownells' started carrying it abouta year ago.

And it is your duty to take any of those old obsolete bullet molds off the traders at gun shows.

I cushioned my hammer from striking the anvil this afternoon with my thumb, preventing any damage to the anvil and the piece I was working on. I am currently treating it with cheap beer, but may soak it in Ed's Red before I go to bed. If I was still married, I could soak it in cider.

[onceabull]

Gents: WE is spot on re: Moulds & Boise Gun Shows. I tried moving some of my treasures last spring,and went home thinking the camo and black gun crowd would soon own the world. Got to say though, the ever-increasing # of ex-kalifornistas has done a lot for prices( If you are on the sell side)! Onceabull

[lar45]

I mixed up a batch of Ed's Red and it will clean circles around Hoppes no. 9

I scrubbed my whelen till it was turning out white patches with hoppes, then just for kicks, I ran a patch of Ed's through and it came out black!! Again with Hoppes and a clean patch, then Ed's and very dark again. Ed's was getting stuff out that Hoppes didn't even think to look for.

I like it.

[fourarmed]

If you'll check a recent Brownell's catalog, you'll find Ed's Red listed in small (3 or 4 oz.) bottles for 5 or 6 bucks. It's accompanied by a smarmy, Gary Olen type description on the order of "Why should a busy shooter like you bother your pretty head mixing these dangerous chemicals when you could be at the range?"

[Petander]

Gotta bump this one up.

I just made my first liter of Ed´s Red wih Lanolin, I never used Lanolin in the mix before. I added LanOlin a different way, no double boiler here:


First I warmed up ATF a little Iin a kettle, then dissolved Lanolin with ATF. Let cool, add the rest. Shake. Done.

This has been my one and only gun oil for several years now , all I wanted was a "Lanolinified" mix for metal storage purposes.