squirrel rifles re-visited, the mighty .45 , or is it ?

[buckweet]

ahhh....

just reading the squirrel rifle post's. seems everyone . has/wants a .32 or .36. and even a few 40's...

now we gets to the .45... seemes to me the .45 falls into the ....''when i grow up, i wanna be a deer rifle''
or ... ''im too big to play with the little kids anymore''


whats the scoop . ???

[45nut]

yer kidding right?

[Hanshi]

yer kidding right?

Don't think he is! But his question begs discussion.

Buckweet, the .45 is my favorite caliber if I had to have just one. Loaded down, as it should be, it is no worse than the .40 with head/neck shots on small game. Varmints? No contest. Deer? A natural. I've killed deer out to 75 yards and many closer and all one shot kills. A couple were even DRTs. Lots of hunters talk about range, i.e. 50 yds or less, up to 100, no more than 75, et al. Truth be known it is fine up to any range you can keep all shots on a basketball size circle with open iron sights. Just remember the further you shoot the more critical the conditions.

[waksupi]

Those .45's just bounce off of deer. Beware of ricochets!

[ktw]

I like the 45, and chose it over a smaller caliber, because
- it does dual duty as a small game and deer gun,
- a 45 roundball is less susceptible to wind at the limits of it's useful range than a 32 or 36 roundball.

I was leery of it's usefulness as a deer rifle when buying it, having only used a 54 previously. After shooting a couple of deer with it I am completely convinced of it's effectiveness, with roundball out to 75 yards or so and with a REAL out to 120 yards.

-ktw

[Marvin S]

This will probalby start something but I do or have owned about every caliber black powder rifle made in flint and percussion and the 45cal is 99% of the time more accurate than its little brothers.

[6pt-sika]

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f316/6pt-sika/DickertRifle004.jpg

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f316/6pt-sika/DickertRifle003.jpg

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f316/6pt-sika/DickertRifle002.jpg

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f316/6pt-sika/DickertRifle001.jpg

My "Blackhart" 45 rifle in the Dickert style !

[madcaster]

The .45 is the all-around muzzleloader caliber for everything in the lower 48!
If you're going to Alaskey maybe a Brown Bess with a ball is best![smilie=s:

[Bullshop Junior]

The .45 is the all-around muzzleloader caliber for everything in the lower 48!
If you're going to Alaskey maybe a Brown Bess with a ball is best![smilie=s:


Uh-uh......BB gun

[Bullshop Junior]

BB = Bowling Balls

[mooman76]

I think the 45 is a good caliber for shooting. A little more umph than a 32 or 36 so you feel like you're shooting something, but easier on the lead than your bigger guns.

[rhbrink]

About the only other thing that I can say about the 45 is that it probably has won more rifle matches than all the rest of them put together.

[Baron von Trollwhack]

The blown off head or front end of a squirrel is virtually indistinguishable between .32 or .45 RB. If you hunt deer long enough you will see the difference between .45, .50, or .54 RB kills on eastern whitetail. To say nothing of .58 or .62.

The DRT effect goes up dramatically with caliber. BvT

[twotoescharlie]

if you're gonna make head shots, cannot see what difference caliber makes, its gonna take it off anyhow.

TTC

[buckweet]

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f316/6pt-sika/DickertRifle004.jpg

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f316/6pt-sika/DickertRifle003.jpg

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f316/6pt-sika/DickertRifle002.jpg

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f316/6pt-sika/DickertRifle001.jpg

My "Blackhart" 45 rifle in the Dickert style !





ya know ? im kinda thinkin ? i like you alot. in fact ??? im thinkin i ought ta just move in, and help ya watch over your pretty rifle.... sounds good to me ?

[madcaster]

ya know ? im kinda thinkin ? i like you alot. in fact ??? im thinkin i ought ta just move in, and help ya watch over your pretty rifle.... sounds good to me ?

No NO!I saw him,I mean HE SAW ME-ME FIRST![smilie=l:

[buckweet]

Those .45's just bounce off of deer. Beware of ricochets!



hahahahaha !!

figgers you'ed say somethings like that ric....lol !!!:holysheep

[buckweet]

ya know ? im kinda thinkin ? i like you alot. in fact ??? im thinkin i ought ta just move in, and help ya watch over your pretty rifle.... sounds good to me ?

No NO!I saw him,I mean HE SAW ME-ME FIRST![smilie=l:





oh no !!! MINE !!! me first !!! mine !!!

MOMMY !!! :takinWiz:

[buckweet]

I like the 45, and chose it over a smaller caliber, because
- it does dual duty as a small game and deer gun,
- a 45 roundball is less susceptible to wind at the limits of it's useful range than a 32 or 36 roundball.

I was leery of it's usefulness as a deer rifle when buying it, having only used a 54 previously. After shooting a couple of deer with it I am completely convinced of it's effectiveness, with roundball out to 75 yards or so and with a REAL out to 120 yards.

-ktw








with R.E.A.L. out to 120 yards..............now yer talkin !!

[buckweet]

yer kidding right?





oh no................................................ ........................me ?

[6pt-sika]

ya know ? im kinda thinkin ? i like you alot. in fact ??? im thinkin i ought ta just move in, and help ya watch over your pretty rifle.... sounds good to me ?

Kinda throws you for a loop when you see my old or contemporary ML's and you KNOW I truely like the Knight Disc rifles and the Svaage 10ML-II :drinks:

Goes to show you , folks can use and ENJOY BOTH :drinks:

[FL-Flinter]

The DRT effect goes up dramatically with caliber. BvT

Well, let me tell ya, that's a true statement! I saw a PA WT take three 175gr bullets from a 7mm Rem MAGNUM, two in the boiler room, one in the bellows and still make 350+ yards before dropping and he weren't all that big either. On the other hand, every WT that took a 0.610" to the boiler room dropped within 20yds and every one that took a 0.710" ball was DRT including the one that was on a full-throttle run, sliding ten feet on his chin doesn't count for making distance. But, all that being said, I started with a .45 and didn't have WT's make more than 50yds from that one either.

If you're blowing them up with a .32 or .36, you need to throttle back a little ... perhaps a lot? After all the years, I still have yet to understand why some people seriously overload the small bores and underload the bigger bores. I can't help but laugh to myself when I read posts on these forums of people running 30-45gr of 3F in the little .32 for tree rats while the same folks are only loading 65gr in their .54 for deer. The .32 tosses a 47-52gr round ball (depending upon the diameter of the ball you can get away with) while the .54 is pushing a 224-231gr ball - a mass difference in excess of 179gr yet in some cases a powder charge difference of just 20gr? :groner:

10-15gr in the .32 will often perform quite well with a PRB.

Some states have Min & Max caliber depending o the game being hunted. Some places mandate .40 or less for small game and .44 or larger for big game.

[buckweet]

I truely like the Knight Disc rifles and the Svaage 10ML-II :drinks:








:confused::violin::coffee::Fire::confused::holyshe ep:hijack:



what !?!?!?! someone call a policeman !!!!

[rhbrink]

Like FL-Flinter my best tree rat load in my 32 is 15 grains 3FFF. I try to drop down to the lightest charge possible and maintain accuracy. When deer hunting 50 cal and above I go to the heavest charge possible and still maintain accuracy. When the smoke clears so that you can see go tag your deer.

[smoked turkey]

I just finished reading "Born Out of Season" by Marshal Ralph L. Hooker. Good book and I recommend it for anyone liking the old ways and respectin the old mountain men. Anyway, in 1946 he had given to him Daniel Boone's old flinter. It was made in 1775 by Elisa Buell. Weighed 10.5 lb., 62" long, shooting a .457 ball (page 52). The marshall had three one shot buffalo kills with it and no telling what all Daniel killed with it. I think the person behind the trigger accounts for a lot of it.

[6pt-sika]

Well, let me tell ya, that's a true statement! I saw a PA WT take three 175gr bullets from a 7mm Rem MAGNUM, two in the boiler room, one in the bellows and still make 350+ yards before dropping and he weren't all that big either.

The 175 grain bullet in a 7 MAG has a way way to heavy jacket for decent expansion on a little bitty whitetail !

Now if he'd had a decent 140-150 grain bullet it woulda taken maybe one shot and dropped inside 40 yards .

[northmn]

I have shot several squirrels with a 45 and like they say, little if any difference betwen it and a32. Small bores usually need to be loaded up to be accurate, such as about 25-35 grains in a 32. They act like a 22 mag HP. I have never owned a 36 but have used a 40 which performs the same on squirrels. As to deer, which deer? In the midwest the whitetail can grow pretty hefty, over 200 pounds for a reasonable buck. In the Southern states they may be a little smaller where a 150-170 pound buck is a good one. Mostly I prefer the smaller ones for squirrels for reasons of aesthetics and the fact that they are easier to shoot. My 25 will blow a pretty nasty hole in a squirrel also, but uses about 15 grains of powder behind a 24 grain ball. Life would be boring if I owned one rifle, but the 45 would be my choice if I did.

Northmn

[buckweet]

I just finished reading "Born Out of Season" by Marshal Ralph L. Hooker. Good book and I recommend it for anyone liking the old ways and respectin the old mountain men. Anyway, in 1946 he had given to him Daniel Boone's old flinter. It was made in 1775 by Elisa Buell. Weighed 10.5 lb., 62" long, shooting a .457 ball (page 52). The marshall had three one shot buffalo kills with it and no telling what all Daniel killed with it. I think the person behind the trigger accounts for a lot of it.






man, just to hold ol' boon's rifle would be enuff fer me.

great story, thanks for passin it on, wishes i could read that book.

so ? the ol' .45 is a pretty good all arounder. thats good news, because i have one :smile:

[northmn]

Well, let me tell ya, that's a true statement! I saw a PA WT take three 175gr bullets from a 7mm Rem MAGNUM, two in the boiler room, one in the bellows and still make 350+ yards before dropping and he weren't all that big either. On the other hand, every WT that took a 0.610" to the boiler room dropped within 20yds and every one that took a 0.710" ball was DRT including the one that was on a full-throttle run, sliding ten feet on his chin doesn't count for making distance. But, all that being said, I started with a .45 and didn't have WT's make more than 50yds from that one either.

If you're blowing them up with a .32 or .36, you need to throttle back a little ... perhaps a lot? After all the years, I still have yet to understand why some people seriously overload the small bores and underload the bigger bores. I can't help but laugh to myself when I read posts on these forums of people running 30-45gr of 3F in the little .32 for tree rats while the same folks are only loading 65gr in their .54 for deer. The .32 tosses a 47-52gr round ball (depending upon the diameter of the ball you can get away with) while the .54 is pushing a 224-231gr ball - a mass difference in excess of 179gr yet in some cases a powder charge difference of just 20gr? :groner:

10-15gr in the .32 will often perform quite well with a PRB.

Some states have Min & Max caliber depending o the game being hunted. Some places mandate .40 or less for small game and .44 or larger for big game.

I had a similar result with a 270 where the deer ran a very long ways with lungs blown to jelly and a blood trail that seemed to contain more liquid than one would think a deer holds. Another was a jackrabbit that ran 80 paces hit by a 222 and had no rib cage left on the far side. Similar experiences by others sell a lot of rifles. 15 grains out of a 32 still blows a squirrels head of at small game ranges. It was said that a common practice to determine load was to cover the ball with powder while holding it in the palm of your hand. That is about 50 grains for a 50. Old powder measure were said to be fairly modest in charge. One often hears of the term "double charge" being used from the frontier days which may have not have meant as much as we think today. Most load their rifles relatively hot as compared to yesteryear. I use about 90 grains of 2f Swiss in my 54 and about 70 grains of 3f in a 45 and 80 3f in a 50. For small critters I used about 40 grains in a 45. I have also wondered if the use of WW cast would not also eliminate some of the destruction on small game.

Northmn

[rhbrink]

Long time ago I tried that didn't work for me, couldn't getem loaded you would have to make sure that the ball was enough under size with a really heavy patch to make it work. WW would cast larger out of the same mold maybe if you could mix 50/50 or 25/75 WW to pure might be workable just easy'r to load a small bore down. More fun and cheaper too and good excuse to buy more guns!

[FL-Flinter]

The 175 grain bullet in a 7 MAG has a way way to heavy jacket for decent expansion on a little bitty whitetail !

Now if he'd had a decent 140-150 grain bullet it woulda taken maybe one shot and dropped inside 40 yards .

Nahh, I prefer to just go with the sexy vs. effective thing....

Sexy...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v474/markkw/ballistics/BulletFail1.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v474/markkw/ballistics/BulletFail2.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v474/markkw/ballistics/BulletFail3.jpg

Effective...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v474/markkw/Testimonials/Kyle_R_Elk_hunt_2009_ball_before_af.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v474/markkw/ballistics/45c_490gr_135yd_37pen.jpg

:Fire::drinks:

[FL-Flinter]

Northmn,

I used WW alloy in a Lee 0.311" mold, dropped the balls around 0.313" and IIRC, I used a 0.015"ish patch. Snug starting but they shot great even with just a 10gr charge. Still do a lot of damage on squirrel-size critters but not as bad as a soft lead ball. Get into woodchuck size and they make a nice wound channel without too much damage on the non-CPU hits even running a 30gr charge.

BTW, depending on what twist you have, some barrels will shoot the 93gr Lee 0.311" RN bullet fairly well if you paper patch it up to size.

[buckweet]

well... heck, shot the ,36 buggy rifle today.....awsome. 15-20 grains of fffg, .350 ball and 0.015 patch, shooting off hand, at 60 yards could hit pop bottle caps .
good enuff for me, dandy little rifle.


tomorrow, we going to start working with the .45
hope it does as good as the .36.

im telling ya, that little .36 is a keeper. i'll make another thread on the .36

[45-70 Chevroner]

Great thread going here. I have a Traditions Dear Hunter in name only 32 and a CVA (45)Kentucky in 36. I had to have the barrell replaced on the CVA because my son let the bore get away from him. I had a friend (Charley Maggard custom rifle builder) put a new Green mountain 36 on it. The little 32 will shoot nickle size groups with a .315 RB and a .15 PT patch and 10 grs. fffg goex. at 25yds. I haven't tried the 36 yet but charley said to use a .350 RB and
.15 PT and 25grs. fffg and it should shoot one ragged hole. Before my son had borrowed the CVA, It would shoot 3" to 4" groups at a 100 yards. The CVA was built from a kit back in the 70's. I payed $69.00 for it. I'm hoping to get a lot more years out of it. The little 32 takes tree rats from the top of Ponderosa pines about 150 to 175 ft. very well with the load I mentioned.