Hendey Lathe Project

[SPRINGFIELDM141972]

I finally got my lathe.

I've been on the hunt for a decent cheap lathe for a long time.

Well, I got cheap anyway. I have a lot of cleaning and some fixing to do. I have never seen a lathe that could be tore down to the level this thing can. If its broke, it can be taken off, and rebuilt or replaced. I'll post some pictures as it comes together.
http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu86/SPRINGFIELDM141972/P1130001.jpg

[johnlaw484]

Way cool, Brother. I can't wait to see it.
[smilie=s:

[vinceb]

Those old hendey lathes are great ! I spent a lot of hours running one of them . Once you get it running .. you may never have to work on it again .

[Ernest]

I love old rusted iron!!!

[scrapcan]

what size of spindle thread does it have? Ihave an old and very large spindle nose collet chuck that has 2 3/4 x 4 tpi internal threads. I would like to find it a home and find something intrade that need to live at my home. I have a SB heavy 10.

[jlchucker]

Those old Hendys and several other lathes made by US makers during the era that yours was made were built to last. More than likely forever. Fix yours up and it will most likely run a very long time for you. I worked for several years for Jones and Lamson, another American machine tool company that is now history. There were customersi the 1980's, who were ordering parts for machines that had been sold in the 1890's and were still in continuous operation. The same could undoubtedly be said for not only Hendy but for Warner-Swazey, Lodge & Shipley, Cincinnati, among others. Nowadays, most machines used in the US are imported. A sad state of affairs for American industry.

[Marvin S]

Looks to be similar condition to a Logan 820 I have been helping another guy restore. His had several teeth broke from the final bull gear. I bronzed them up and recut new teeth, that was a tedious job. But its up and running now and looks great.

[Willbird]

Those lathes are an especial pleasure the thread on, you do not have, and do not need a thread dial................they work like what was later called a "toolroom lathe"....you just pull the lever to reverse the carriage and the half nuts stay engaged all the time.

If you do not have a motor yet, you are in luck IMHO and can get a 3 phase motor and use a VFD from the get go. And I would drive the spindle with a serpentine belt.

I hope you got a steady with the machine ?

Bill

[SPRINGFIELDM141972]

Thanks for all the encouragement guys. The old machine doesn't seem to have alot wrong with it so far. I am worried about the spindle bushings tough. This Hendey uses the tapered spindle bushings, so I might be able to take up the slack. I'm get .010 lift in the chuck useing a prybar, so we will see.

Manleyjt- The spindle on this machine is 2" 8tpi. So unless I made a bushing... PM me with what all you have maybe we can work out something.

Wilbird- No center steady rest. But it does have the taper attachment[smilie=w:

This project is going to be a fun one

Regards,
Everett

[scrapcan]

SpringfieldM141972,

Pm on the way and I can provide pictures. I had picked up the collet closer with the impression from previous owner it was not as large as it is. I also thought I could just bush it to correct threads, but alas it is too large for the heavy 10 in my opinion.

Ps how about a nice blued SAA w/ ivorex grips in trade? Not bloody likely, eh!

[scrapcan]

Everett,

Here are a few pictures. Markings are spring chuck for Lathe No Q125 CX Dep 80. It has a metal box and is quite heavy. I did not weigh but it may fit in the largest flat rate box.

[PatMarlin]

Nice iron. Did that orginally come with V- belts? Someone must have changed it. I would go back to flat belts for sure.

[bohica2xo]

That particular Hendey is a transitional machine, probably made from existing parts, or it may have been upgraded by Hendey at a later date.

The basic machine is the half step between the 1892 design, and the 1921.

Hopefully you have the gear box assembly that was mounted to the left of the quick change assembly - the sort of "figure 8" clean spot on the end of the machine. That would be your feed reverse.

Both the 1892 & the 1921 machines were originally flat drive. The 1921 design however was made for either an electric motor mounted behind the machine or overhead drive. Your machine was set up for common overhead drive.

That spindle drive pulley was obviously cast to be driven with the vee belts. It has no other steps for the flat belt. If it was converted, there would still be steps for the flat belt.

The odd pulley, and the cast "tower" indicate it was driven with an electric motor. many of those units used a small automotive (model A?) transmission for a speed selector, coupled to an electric motor. What sort of drive transmission do you have for this unit?

It appears that this machine is a hybrid, or collection of parts. During the span of a couple of wars, it was not uncommon for a manufacturer to assemble old parts into new machines to support war production. An interesting Hendey.

If you have some more pictures, especially any drive parts or boxes of parts that you got with the machine - I will be glad to help you sort things out.

The spindle bearings can be rebuilt if you are out of adjustment range.

I worked in a shop that still had a functioning overhead driveshaft. Really made you think twice about loose clothing, long hair, fast moves & hand gestures...


Good luck with your project


B.

[SPRINGFIELDM141972]

bohica-

Thanks for the insight into this machine. I have been doing some research and believe it is a transition machine as well. I can not date this machine exactly as the bed does not have any serial numbers stamped in it.

The electric drive motor for this machine is C-face motor mounted onto a four speed reduction gear. I was surprised to find it to be a 1 horsepower motor.

I do have gear reduction selector box that you noticed was missing. I removed it to access a couple of gears with broken teeth. I am having a gear shop fabricate the replacements.

This machine does have some play in the spindle bearings. I hope they have enough life in them that I can just adjust the slack out.

Regards,
Everett

[bohica2xo]

Post some pics of the drive motor & gear assembly if you can.

A 1 horespower motor will be plenty for the speeds that machine ran at. Is the motor single phase?

Glad to hear you have the gearbox. It would be difficult to replace.

The only way to know for sure on the spindle bearings is to try. If they are adjusted all the way, then you have to do something more drastic.

B.

[Willbird]

MY Brother in law has my Hendey lathe now, it has a 3/4 HP 1150 rpm motor on it, and it will take off a LOT of metal. The older a motor is if it is in good shape the more grunt it actually makes IMHO. And 3/4 HP at 1150 is more torque than 3/4 HP at 1750 or 3600 rpm.

Bill

[SPRINGFIELDM141972]

I thought I'd update the progress of my project. I've been over at Practical Machinist with a bunch of questions, but you guys are my friends.

Here the Hendey coming down.
http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu86/SPRINGFIELDM141972/IMG_0759.jpg
The headstock bushings are in good shape. The cross-slide and apron are in serviceable condition and the gearbox has one gear with one tooth missing.
http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu86/SPRINGFIELDM141972/IMG_0761.jpg

Parade Rest!
http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu86/SPRINGFIELDM141972/IMG_0765.jpg
I hope I remember how to get it back together again.:veryconfu
http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu86/SPRINGFIELDM141972/IMG_0766.jpg

Four gears, one clutch dog, two threaded shafts to repair, and will probably replace the lead screw. Not too bad for a 100+ year old machine.

Regards,
Everett

[scrapcan]

I have been following you post on the practialmachinist forum also.

Now that is what we like to see, a whole pile of parts. You are doing good, now get it put back together in the time it took to get it apart. I want to see you making things with this lathe pronto.

Just kidding but I think you are going to have a bunch of fun with the large amount of work you have embarked on. Tha tis meant in a good way.

and Keep the spindle nose collet closer in mind for later.

[PatMarlin]

That lathe would look good antique white.

[SPRINGFIELDM141972]

Patmarlin-

I still trying to determine what color to paint it. According to those who are in the know about these machines, state that the normal factory colors were black (earliest), dark gray, and light grey. I'm thinking it will probably end up a shade of ......what ever I can get the cheapest.[smilie=1:. No really, I'm leaning toward white or red.

Regards,
Everett

[PatMarlin]

I think white looks cool on old machines. Bridgeports too. Grey is so boring, but one good thing about grey is all my machines are that color, and since I haven't had tme to paint them, they match ...:mrgreen:

[SPRINGFIELDM141972]

This machine is military machinery gray. I think I slopped enough of that color to float the ship I was painting it in.:groner: I can guarantee it won't be that color!

Regards,
Everett

[SPRINGFIELDM141972]

Bohica-

You ask about a picture of the drive motor with gearbox. So....http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu86/SPRINGFIELDM141972/DSC08149.jpg

The motor is 3 phase which I know would be ideal, but I ain't going to pay for the power company to install 3 phase and then jack up my electrical useage rate. So I'm going to use the end bell as a bearing housing. I will turn a shaft hole in the bearing cover and attach it directly to the gearbox. The motor's shaft is fitted with the drive end bearing and the shaft goes through a seal plate and has a gear fitted to the end. I am going to remove the rotor and shorten the shaft. This will allow for a coupling and any motor that I want.

[ANeat]

Get a VFD, its about the sweetest thing you can do to a 3 phase motor.

Something like this for 1hp. Single phase 220 in, 3 phase 220 out, with variable speed and reversing, $159.00

http://www.driveswarehouse.com/Drives/AC+Drives/Phase+Converter+VFD/X200-007NFU1.html


I have one similar on my Bridgeport, its about the size of a shoe box or smaller

[bohica2xo]

That looks like a post-war drive unit. They made the open head lathe for decades, because people were still buying them.

The reason for the long belts was to give the same drive "feel" as a long leather belt.

I agree with Mr Neat, don't modify that motor. VFD's are not expensive, and have very good power factor correction.

You don't want to put a bigger motor on that machine. I blew up the gearbox on a 14" LeBlond once with a bigger motor.

There are even VFD units that will let you run that lathe on 115v. That's right, 115vac in > 220v 3ph out. Automation Direct has them for 160 bucks.


As for the paint color... I could not afford white in my shop. I would be wiping more than working. My place is shades of gray. Seems that every maker uses a different gray. B&S, Lincoln, Deckel, Bridgeport, Tarnow, LeBlond, South Bend - they all managed to find a different gray.

A shop full of crem colored VMC's & wire EDM's is one thing. But for open equipment like a manual lathe or mill I think I would stay with gray. I worked in a shop once where they painted a 48" Blanchard white with all of the other machines - the people that made that decision had never seen that machine in operation.

B.

[SPRINGFIELDM141972]

I appreciate the info on the VFD's. I think I'll probably wait untill the rest of the machine is repaired prior to deciding on how to power it.

Regards,
Everett

[jlchucker]

This machine is military machinery gray. I think I slopped enough of that color to float the ship I was painting it in.:groner: I can guarantee it won't be that color!

Regards,
Everett

That gray is machine-tool gray, commonly seen on a lot of brands of old machines. Another common color used is a faded green along the lines of a well-worn set of Army fatigues. These were standard colors before they started painting machinery whatever color the customer wanted. Battleship gray or Goose-t**d Green--customer's choice. Just like at one time all Fords were black.:razz:

[Marvin S]

Do check out the VFDs. I have a westinghouse fluxmaster 100 and it works great.

[3006guns]

My Hendey is a tie bar, built in 1920. I just wanted to add that there is a spindle oil reservior (inside the headstock) under each spindle bearing. Remove the drain and fill cups, then flush them with solvent for a couple weeks......well, a long time anyway. Dig around with a wire pick and flush some more. You'll be astonished at how much black crud is stuck in there. Allowing it to remain will cause it to mix with your spindle oil and grind away your bearings, so get 'em clean before reassembly.

[JIMinPHX]

I used to have a Hendy. Mine had an 18" swing & boy was it rugged. I could take some seriously aggressive cuts on that thing & still get a good finish. That lathe laughed at the 5 horse power motor that I mounted on it. The taper bearings in the headstocks of those things give real good finish on your parts. It takes an act of god to make them chatter.

On mine, I had to recut the dovetail on the cross slide because it had over 3/16" of wear in it when I got it. I also had to make a gear for the threading box. I made it out of nylon to keep things nice & quiet. After that, all I ever did was fill the oil cups & make parts on it.

That thing had like a #5 Morse taper in the tail stock. I used to run a 1" Jacobs super chuck in it. I could chuck a 3/4" end mill in that thing & plunge it into cold roll with no problem. Stunts like that are not supposed to work, but on that old beast, they did.

When I switched to a 13" Clausing Colechester, I thought that I was moving up in the world. I got more spindle speeds & more thread pitches & quicker changeovers, but in a lot of ways, I took a big step back. That Hendy was a serious machine. It was no tinker toy.

[phatman]

What ANeat said plus 1
I vote for antique whit also..LOL

John

[SPRINGFIELDM141972]

My Hendey is a tie bar, built in 1920. I just wanted to add that there is a spindle oil reservior (inside the headstock) under each spindle bearing. Remove the drain and fill cups, then flush them with solvent for a couple weeks......well, a long time anyway. Dig around with a wire pick and flush some more. You'll be astonished at how much black crud is stuck in there. Allowing it to remain will cause it to mix with your spindle oil and grind away your bearings, so get 'em clean before reassembly.

Thanks 3006.

Its been soaking for 3 days in gasoline. I was amazed at the amount of crud that came out of the cross slide apron!

I'm having a blast with this old girl. She won't be the fastest but she'll be the pretty girl at the dance.

Everett

[Dutchman]

I always liked these colors on the 1903 Von Wyck lathe. 15x60". Easy on the eyes and not boring like gray <yuck!>. White would be a major pain, IMO, as you'd be constantly wiping it off.

The "apron" is on the front of the carriage. You'll need to disassemble the entire apron to inspect it and clean it. On the Von Wyck there was a 7" or 8" diameter ground & lapped cone clutch for the carriage feed. It was beautiful.

http://images51.fotki.com/v732/photos/2/28344/474695/la10-vi.jpg

Dutch

[SPRINGFIELDM141972]

Thats funny, I just decided on alpine green and received the paint for it yesterday. It will be real close to the lathe in your picture.

Regards,
Everett

[Willbird]

When I was a kid growing up all dads machines were GRAY, and he painted some of the cast portions of handles crimson red. He would not rest easy when we got a new to us machine until I had scraped and painted it gray, I could never figure out who started the idea of using green paint on machines that were gray.

Now if a machine came green, or puce when it was new sure....but I would not consider it an "upgrade".

:-).

[bohica2xo]

Back in the 1975 to 1985 era, Lockheed Aircraft wasted a lot of time & money painting machines.

In 1975 the paint scheme was green, with yellow handles & controls. We called it "seasick green". Brand new machines were painted, always on the factory floor after installation. By a bunch of painters that went to school on the short bus - then inhaled 20 years worth of solvents.

We used to sand the yelow crud from the knobs & handles so we would not go home with yellow palms that would not wash off.

About 1979, someone decided that machines should be Blue. That mind numbing OSHA blue. But they kept the bright yellow levers & knobs. A huge effort was undertaken to slop yet another coat of paint on the poor machines.

About that time K&T started shipping machines in a rather pleasant tan color. When K&T came out to fix a near new machine, they almost threw up. Glass Scales apparently do not work too well with that much paint...

In 1984, somebody decided that there was a lot of wasted labor in painting new machines. The FActory floor began to look like a patchwork quilt as new equipment came in. Hardinge gray. K&T Tan. Cincinnati gray. A nice green on a german grinder...

One day Ben Rich walked through the shop and had a fit. "Looks like a junkyard!" "Get all of those machines painted the same color so it looks like we have a fleet"

More blue paint. Barf. The maintence budget up in flames. No money for a fresh set of spindle bearings, all spent on paint. That was a tough year.

I was able to find a dozen blue tee shirts that so closely matched the ugly blue I could dissapear. My supervisor walked past me more than once.

B.

[Dutchman]

The green on the Von Wyck was Pittsburgh Paints "Sea mist green".... not seasick.. that was funny:)

The other color is an ivory.

The idea of these colors, I'm sure, was thought up by some anti-Man liberal pinko who thought Men should have machines with a pastel color scheme to render them more sensitive and to get in touch with their female side.... instead of groping female backsides. Didn't work.

Dutch

[johnlaw484]

I'd stick with the grey, no need to jump ship now.

[SPRINGFIELDM141972]

According to what I could gather Hendey were normally grey, but no one that I can get to answer me knows exactly what shade of grey. The lathes could be ordered from the factory any color you wanted. I personally prefer the old alpine green. So...... alpine green it is.:bigsmyl2:

I primed the chip pan and lower base yesterday. I was afraid to put any paint/primer on it because I was afraid I would get impatient and want it back together right now. Well, I was right. I've been spending all of my lunch hours tinkering with this thing and I can't wait to be able to put it to work.

Now if I could only find a shaper.....

[SPRINGFIELDM141972]

I thought I would post my progress on my Hendey. I appreciate everyone's input on this project.

I have been focusing on tightening up all the loose fits so I don't have alot to show off. I have spent most of the last week boring and bushing the bearing areas in the apron. I have one more to do and then it will be ready for paint.

I did however complete the modifications to the gearbox. As seen in an earlier post the gearbox has a C-face motor attached directly to the gearbox. A littl e research deermined that the frame type used with this gearbox was no longer available. Although the motor ran, as with all things, it was going fail sooner or later. So to allow the use of another motor:
1. Removed the center section of the motor
2. Disassembled the motor shaft.
3. Moved the location of the bearing journal on the shaft
4. Removed the boss from the end cover, bored a countersink to match the boss on the gearbox, and bored a through hole
5. Shortened the shaft and installed a keyway.

See.
http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu86/SPRINGFIELDM141972/P2100001.jpg

Also got a little primer on the sub-base and chip pan.
http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu86/SPRINGFIELDM141972/P2100003.jpg

[scrapcan]

looking good so far.

Good to spend lunch hour doing something other than eating, then you don't feel bad about not holding up the new year's resolution to stop drinking so much beer!

[SPRINGFIELDM141972]

How'd you know my justification processes?:shock: You been reading my diary?:holysheep

Like I said not much to show but it all about adding up the manhours.

Regards,
Everett

[PatMarlin]

Seen a lot of Hendeys come up for sale lately. I would like to replace my circa 1951 11x24 Logan model 920 sometime with a little more beef and larger spindle bore. The little Logan is one heck of a lathe though. I use it daily.

[SPRINGFIELDM141972]

Patmarlin-

If your looking to up the spindle bore size, then you will need a larger machine than my 14". My spindle bore is 1-7/32" and according to what I've read 1" is the norm for one as old as mine (pre 1919). The gear head post 1929 models are suppose to be 1-1/2". I would suggest if you plan on buying a Hendey cone spindle type then purchase the 18" or larger for the increased bore size.

Regards,
Everett

[SPRINGFIELDM141972]

P.S.

As far as heavier, the Hendey has the Logan beat. Way over sized for the work normally done on a lathe this size. Thats the biggest reason I was so excited when this lathe came along. Once I tighten it back up, it will be in workable condition long after I am not.


Regards,
Everett

[Just Duke]

I thought I'd update the progress of my project. I've been over at Practical Machinist with a bunch of questions, but you guys are my friends.

Here the Hendey coming down.
http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu86/SPRINGFIELDM141972/IMG_0759.jpg
The headstock bushings are in good shape. The cross-slide and apron are in serviceable condition and the gearbox has one gear with one tooth missing.
http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu86/SPRINGFIELDM141972/IMG_0761.jpg

Parade Rest!
http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu86/SPRINGFIELDM141972/IMG_0765.jpg
I hope I remember how to get it back together again.:veryconfu
http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu86/SPRINGFIELDM141972/IMG_0766.jpg

Four gears, one clutch dog, two threaded shafts to repair, and will probably replace the lead screw. Not too bad for a 100+ year old machine.

Regards,
Everett

Oh be still my heart. You tore here all down for a proper resurection. How do the ways look SF?

[Just Duke]

Get a VFD, its about the sweetest thing you can do to a 3 phase motor.

Something like this for 1hp. Single phase 220 in, 3 phase 220 out, with variable speed and reversing, $159.00

http://www.driveswarehouse.com/Drives/AC+Drives/Phase+Converter+VFD/X200-007NFU1.html


I have one similar on my Bridgeport, its about the size of a shoe box or smaller

For sure!!!!

[Just Duke]

I appreciate the info on the VFD's. I think I'll probably wait untill the rest of the machine is repaired prior to deciding on how to power it.

Regards,
Everett

Test out the motor and make sure she still works before ordering the VFD.

[Just Duke]

Scrub the heck out of all your parts with MEK prior to painting to remove all the oils that might float the paint off later, SF.
Can't wait to see how this one comes out.

[SPRINGFIELDM141972]

DukeNukem-

The ways aren't all that bad considering the age. I thought of having them scraped, but I honestly believe it would be more cosmetic than functionally necessary.

As far as the motor, I will be installing a replacement. The motor that came to me with unit was an oddball that I would never be able to replace. So I opted to modify the gearbox to allow any motor to couple to it.

As far as clean up, I have been using.... Shhhhh[smilie=1:... gasoline and soaking/scrubbing until a dull surface appears the next day. Prior to paint it gets a final rub down with paint thinner. It should hold up.

I'll be posting pics as I have something to show.

Regards,
Everett

[Just Duke]

Thanks for the update SF.
Try MEK though as laquer thinner leaves a white residue behind. Just a note.
Great job SF.
You shoot the M-14?

[PatMarlin]

One cleaner that works as good as all the above is Purple Power they sell at Walmart and Napa here in CA.

It is non toxic, and cleans degreases all the grease and oils off. Truly a great product. I've repainted many things after using that stuff. Totally water soluable. Just spritz your machine with water, and spray or brush this stuff on and let it get to work. It melts grease pronto. Cheap too.

THat spindle bore size is plenty on your lathe for gun work isn't it? Mines 1 3/8". I have very limited space for this lathe, so I want the smallest heavy hunk of iron I can get in there, and power usage is a consideration for me as I'm off grid, so larger machines won't work for now, and I don't need the power.

12x 36, 13x40, 14x36, or in the neighborhood would be perfect.

[SPRINGFIELDM141972]

DukeNukem-

Thanks for the tip on the MEK.

My "14" is a Springfield M1A National Match, So answer is technically no, but it is as close as I ever get to another M14. I shot competition for a short while in the service. I had wanted the Grand but was given the 14. I fell in love with it.

PatMarlin-

Yes the bore is big enough in most cases. I was referenceing your desire for a larger spindle bore than you currently have. For power input to useable power over the ways ratio, the old belt driven units can't be beat. They may not be as fast as the new iron on market, but they take alot less power to operate. If you can get your hands on one for the right money, I would jump on it.

Regards to all,
Everett

[SPRINGFIELDM141972]

Well she is starting to clean up nicely.
http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu86/SPRINGFIELDM141972/P1010031.jpg

Hopefully I'll be running this jewel by mid-spring.
http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu86/SPRINGFIELDM141972/P1010033-1.jpg

[scrapcan]

You bet it is starting to look good. How much work are you expecting on bearings and spindle?

[SPRINGFIELDM141972]

I don't expect any spindle bearing work. I have .001 lift in the spindle head. This clearance is before any adjustments. I am going to have to machine the faceplate off the spindle to be able to make any bearing fit adjustments. This faceplate refuses to unscrew. I intended to make a replacement face plate anyways as the installed one is pretty beat up.

[JIMinPHX]

You can usually take up .001" of spindle lift with heavier spindle lube in a plain bearing rig like that. The taper bearings in Hendys have so much surface area that they tend to be fairly forgiving to something like that. I've recut the cross slide dovetails on a mchine like that before. Hendy uses a wonderful grade of cast that cuts like butter & gives a great finish with just moderate effort. Post #28 on this thread shows how I get stuck lathe chucks & face plates to unscrew - http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?p=817946#post817946

[PatMarlin]

Guy has a 1920's Hendey 12x36 on craigs list in the bay area for $650. Looks old and well used, but no close ups to get any kind of idea on it's condition. Ad just says "Good condition for it's age", which could mean- well you know... anything.

[PatMarlin]

Lookin' good by the way. I like the color too.

[johnlaw484]

You told me green!

[johnlaw484]

Well she is starting to clean up nicely.
http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu86/SPRINGFIELDM141972/P1010031.jpg

Hopefully I'll be running this jewel by mid-spring.
http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu86/SPRINGFIELDM141972/P1010033-1.jpg

Man that thing looks good!

[SPRINGFIELDM141972]

You told me green!
That is green!

[PatMarlin]

It's a pastel.

[SPRINGFIELDM141972]

Pastel? Thems fightin words. LOL.

[PatMarlin]

That just means to purdy to get durdy ...:mrgreen:

[bohica2xo]

(shudder) Lockheed's 1977 "Seasick Green".

All that is missing is bright yellow trim. Make sure you paint the apron handwheel completely, so your palm is yellow for days after running the machine. Do the same to the tailstock handwheel & clamp lever.

Slop the un-painted surface on the change gear slot with at least three coats of paint, so it will be difficult to use some feeds.

Only .001 lift in the chuck? Good to go. I ran a Milwaukee Model H that had .008 in the spindle - deflecting it with your bare hands. Running off the part in a climb cut resulted in a radius on the part. Made +/- .005 parts more fun that way. Boss said it was "fine".

Seriously, that machine looks great. Glad to see you taking the time to make it right.

B.

[SPRINGFIELDM141972]

(shudder) Lockheed's 1977 "Seasick Green".

All that is missing is bright yellow trim. Make sure you paint the apron handwheel completely, so your palm is yellow for days after running the machine. Do the same to the tailstock handwheel & clamp lever.

Slop the un-painted surface on the change gear slot with at least three coats of paint, so it will be difficult to use some feeds.

Only .001 lift in the chuck? Good to go. I ran a Milwaukee Model H that had .008 in the spindle - deflecting it with your bare hands. Running off the part in a climb cut resulted in a radius on the part. Made +/- .005 parts more fun that way. Boss said it was "fine".

Seriously, that machine looks great. Glad to see you taking the time to make it right.

B.

Funny you should say that. I was going to to paint the handles yellow (not the portion where your hand grabs). I got a little over zealous with the spray gun and ended up painting the handles green anyway.:groner: Oh well, will wear off eventually.

Regards,
Everett

[PatMarlin]

Nuttin' that Laquer thinner and a rag won't fix.

[PatMarlin]

Here's pics of 12x42 on Craigs list. If it was closer, I would go look at it.

[PatMarlin]

I have lost any confidence in new chinese lathes in the $3000 - $4000 range including Grizzly.

They look good in a pic but up close they are dissapointing if you're used to old American iron. Lot of folks have good feedback on them, but it seems that just as many don't.

[SPRINGFIELDM141972]

I guess being from Missouri (Show Me), I can't have the same confidence in something something that doesn't have the track record. These old machines are 100 year old examples of how it's supposed to be done. I guess when chinese machines have 100 years worth of use then we'll see. But until they do, I'm betting on American iron.

My project is not an example of a extremely tight machine. It is an example of how a extremely well built machine can still be acceptable after over a century of use/abuse. No, it wouldn't be my choice for a production shop or a busy job shop. It just too slow compared to newer machines, but it will still produce as tight a tolerance with the right operator.

I wouldn't begrudge anyone for useing what they can get. I just believe Americans, have proven they build as good as anyone, when we want to, and when it comes to machining tools, we still want to.

Regards,
Everett


Now if I can just find that 36" shaper setting under a tarp with all the tooling...

[SPRINGFIELDM141972]

Here's pics of 12x42 on Craigs list. If it was closer, I would go look at it.

Don't just love(HATE) Craigslist pictures. They are never worth a damn.

[PatMarlin]

Here's a nice one....

http://cgi.ebay.com/HENDEY-LATHE-Highspeed-lathe-GEM_W0QQitemZ250568581446QQcmdZViewItemQQptZBI_Lat hes?hash=item3a570d2146

[JIMinPHX]

Pat, Didn't you just get yourself all set up with a nice modern CNC lathe that does everything except turn itself on & make you coffee? What do you need an antique like this for?

On the other hand, the big pair of wheels on the back side of the Hendy in your picture, over by the tail stock, looks like a polishing attachment that a friend of mine used to have on his Hendy. It was real handy for certain things.

[PatMarlin]

I love looking at old American lathes. My CNC won't replace my other 2 manual machines. They all have their uses. I would like to replace my 11" logan with a heavier machine one of these days.

Hardinge ruint me... :mrgreen: When you get a taste of that, it's hard to use something infierior.

[PatMarlin]

Don't just love(HATE) Craigslist pictures. They are never worth a damn.


Ain't that the truth.

[SPRINGFIELDM141972]

[smilie=w:

I started cleaning up the chucks that I received with this lathe and lo and behold the chuck that was separate in a box is a Cushman adjustable three jaw chuck.

I was told by the people that I got the lathe from that three was an old three jaw that wasn't any good, that it had too much run out. So they bought a replacement three jaw chuck. I told them I would take it anyway for parts. I never looked in the box.

I guess they didn't know that it was adjustable.:groner:

I'm going to have to grind the jaws because someone at one point or another let a part slip in the chuck, but other than that it is tight. It still has the cross hatching visible in the jaw slots!

I have had a good day.

Regards,
Everett

[SPRINGFIELDM141972]

A couple more pictures...

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu86/SPRINGFIELDM141972/DSCN0014.jpg

Don't know why the color looks grey in this photo, maybe I'm turning color blind.

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu86/SPRINGFIELDM141972/DSCN0015.jpg

[scrapcan]

Everett,

For a minute there I thought you had a second piece of iron you were working on. good deal on the three jaw adjust tru.

[SPRINGFIELDM141972]

I'd like another one, that way I could sell it for tooling.:smile:

[SPRINGFIELDM141972]

Well fellas I'm about to start lowering my altitude and line up for the runway on this project.

I have bid in on a 2 hp 3ph motor on Ebay. Now I need a VFD. I will be suppling 230v 1ph input.

What brands are you guys running?

Any known problems with a particular brand?

What features/ratings do I need to have? These little buggers are expensive and I don't want to throw away my money on the wrong thing.

Thanks in advance for the assistance.[smilie=s:

Regards,
Everett

[PatMarlin]

Everett, you need to contact JIMinPHX. He's our resident expert on the subject.

[bohica2xo]

I have installed several GS-2's in the past year. All are working well.

I have 2 GS-1's on my pool pumps, and they will be 5 years in service in June. No issues, and have saved me a LOT of money.
GS-2 drive for 2hp. Under 250 bucks. (http://www.automationdirect.com/adc/Shopping/Catalog/Drives/GS2_(115_-z-_230_-z-_460_-z-_575_VAC_V-z-Hz_Control)/GS2_Drive_Units_(115_-z-_230_-z-_460_-z-_575_VAC)/GS2-22P0)

Buy the remote cable for the control head. Mount the box someplace clean & well ventilated.

B.

[SPRINGFIELDM141972]

Starting to stack up nicely.
http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu86/SPRINGFIELDM141972/Picture003.jpg

The cross slide.
http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu86/SPRINGFIELDM141972/Picture005-1.jpg

The headstock is good and tight. Just awaiting my replacement gears.
http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu86/SPRINGFIELDM141972/Picture006.jpg

[scrapcan]

That looks good.

Looks like you need a lead screw installed yet. What shape is it in?

Will you do my SB Heavy 10 next?

[SPRINGFIELDM141972]

That looks good.

Looks like you need a lead screw installed yet. What shape is it in?

Will you do my SB Heavy 10 next?

Well the lead screw had alot of wear in it. It is part of the parts I am waiting on. The lead screw is a 1"-6 Acme, so it is not difficult to reproduce. I am also have a set of half nuts built for it as well.

The Heavy 10? Suuure.. just send it to me with all of the tooling and accessories and I will send it back when I'm done useing....I mean when I'm done repairing it.[smilie=1:

Thanks to all for the encouragement and nice words.

[82nd airborne]

ive got a 1908 leblond of of an navy ship when you get done with manleyjt's, that is some impressive work that derserves to be proud of. i'll understand if you dont get to my lathe tommorow!

[SPRINGFIELDM141972]

If I get a few more requests, I might be able to go into business. :smile:

That wouldn't be a bad job actually. I have really enjoyed this project. I had alot of fun as I dug though the layers of build up, wondering what decade or century this layer of cr*p was deposited.

Regards,
Everett

[JIMinPHX]

I just received a PM from Everett asking about VFD's. I figured that I'd post the answer here, so that everyone can see it, benefit from the information that I have to share, & perhaps add comments.

I see that you are planning to use a 2hp 3-phase motor on this lathe. Believe it or not, that might be a bit dainty. I had a 5-hp motor on my old Hendy & in the winter time back east, I'd have trouble getting her to go over 600rpm. Mine had about a 16 or 18" swing though. Yours may be a little smaller. Those big taper bearings are great for rigidity, but they tend to suck up some horsepower, even when well oiled.

Now onto the ABC's of VFD's -
99.5% of the VFD's that you encounter will have 3-phase output. There are some single phase out VFD's that exist, but they are very few & far between. I'm not going to discuss those white buffalo contraptions here. You're planning on using a 3-ph motor. That's a good start.

95% of the drives (VFD's) out there run on 3-phase primary power. Of those, about half can also be run on single phase primary power of the same voltage. Usually, when you use single phase power on those, you need to derate the output HP by some amount, frequently 50%. About 5% of the drives out there are specifically designed to run on single phase primary power only. A few of them will even take in 110-volt ac 1-ph & put out 220-v 3-ph. Trying to run a 2-hp drive off of 110-vac would take a pretty hefty amp draw though, so lets plan against that. Lets plan on using 220vac 1-phase, assuming that you have that available.

Lets assume that you are going to power a 3-phase 2-hp motor with a drive that is powered by 220-v 1-phase. It's not real important if your motor is rated for 208, 220, 230-volt. You can make a parameter adjustment on most any modern drive to compensate for that.

A lathe is considered a high inertia load, especially when you have a big piece of stock in the chuck. It is common for a lathe to draw very high starting currents under normal working conditions. You will need to get a drive with a high enough current rating to handle the load. In high torque applications, where the motor will be drawing locked rotor current for extended periods of time, it is common to get a drive that is 1 or even 2 sizes larger than the motor so that it will have enough current capacity because most drives die from over current related failures. Unfortunately, drives with higher current ratings are more expensive. A less expensive way of dealing with high inertia loads is to program in a long acceleration time. Just about any modern drive will allow you to program that. This way, you don't need to use so much current to get the load up to speed.

Running at a lower current for a long time does not beat on a drive. High currents, even for short periods of time beat on the output thyristors. High currents for long periods of time kill them immediately. You normally set program parameters to avoid that. A short jolt of high current is like taking a swing at a tree with an ax. Doing it once or twice will not bring the tree down, but each strike takes a chunk out of it & leaves it weaker. Current spikes have the same effect on thyristors. Lots of them will cause a failure. High currents are to be avoided.

Running at constant speed usually isn't where you draw the big current, unless you are taking a heavy cut. Getting up to speed is where the big amps normally come in. A typical motor will draw 6 times the nameplate amperage in what is referred to as a "locked rotor" condition.

Pretty much any drive out there today can run in constant current mode or constant HP mode. When you are running at speeds below the nameplate RPM of the motor, you are in constant current (also called constant torque) mode. In that mode, the torque that the motor puts out stays the same as the RPM decreases. Same torque at half RPM = half HP. A 2HP 1740 RPM motor that is putting out 100% torque at 870RPM is actually putting out 1 HP. You do not get full use of the motor's HP capacity whenever you are running below nameplate RPM.

When you run above nameplate RPM, then you are in the constant HP mode. In this mode, as RPM goes up, torque drops off, but HP stays constant. You can run a 1740 RPM motor much faster than 1740RPM without damaging it. Running at twice or even 3 times nameplate RPM is quite common. If you use belts & pulleys to gear down your motor, so that the motor turns 4 times faster than than the output shaft, you will have much better use of horsepower because you will not be running in constant torque mode very often. Constant HP mode (running fast) gives you full use of the motor's available horsepower. Constant Torque mode (low speed operation) does not. It is better to gear down & speed up the motor.

Lets talk about the motor a little bit. One consideration is motor cooling. If you have a motor with a fan on the end of the main shaft (like most of them), then when the motor turns half speed, the fan turns half speed & you don't get much cooling. If you run low speeds & high currents for long periods of time, you will burn the motor. There are motors that are designed especially for VFD applications. They usually have separate smaller motors that run a separate blower to keep them cool. These "drive rated" motors are very expensive. If you plan things so that your motor will run fast & not slow, then you don't need to worry about the blower. Most drive rated motors also have higher voltage ratings on the winding insulation to prevent corona effect related failures. In my experience, any modern motor (less than 15 years old) probably has insulation that is good enough for general purpose drive use. Older motors are a different story. They sometimes fail within a few days of hooking them to a drive. I can explain why if you want me to, but the explanation gets a little deep.

Some drives, especially the smaller ones, will have a little speed knob on the front of the box to control speed. many, but not all drives will allow you to wire in a remote control box with a potentiometer ($5 turn knob thingy), a few push buttons for start & stop & sometimes more switches for preset speeds. Higher end drives talk over comm buss protocols like Devicenet, Canbus, Profibuss or even fiber optic links, but we're not going to use one of those expensive ones here. I do prefer the remote box because then you can locate the expensive drive someplace safe, away from the flying chips that the lathe generates, but still have handy control of the motor speed. I usually make my remote box out of a 4 x 2 watertight outdoor electrical box from Home Depot & switches from Radio Shack. More on that here - http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=49233&highlight=wire&page=2

Some of the higher end drives will have options for closed loop feedback of either speed or position. You don't need to worry about any of that unless you plan on making this thing into a CNC machine later. Open loop control is more than good enough for an engine lathe.

Now lets talk about stopping the motor. Most drives will let you stop it in one of two ways. you can drive to a stop or you can coast to a stop. coasting to a stop is easy. The drive just lets go of the load & the motor coasts to a stop. This can take a while on a lathe without a mechanical brake. If you drive to a stop, then the motor will apply reverse torque to stop the spindle in an amount of time that is programmed in the drive. This sounds all nifty, but it comes with a price. When the motor is running with reverse torque, it acts as a generator & it throws power back into the drive. Eventually, the buss voltage in the drive reaches a dangerous level & the drive is forced to let go of the load & you are back to coasting. There are two ways around this. One is to buy a very expensive "regen" drive that reconstitutes the power back into a form that can be back fed into the primary power feed. the more common way is to add a brake chopper with a big fat resistor. The brake chopper is basically a huge transistor that is controlled by a voltage sensing circuit. When the buss voltage starts to get high, the chopper trips in & dumps the big fat resistor across the buss to bring down the voltage. Energy gets wasted as heat in the resistor, but you get good electronic braking control & you can decelerate the load as fast as you can accelerate it. Generally speaking, 3-5 seconds for acceleration or deceleration time is usually fairly gentle on the equipment. If you go below 1 second, you are begging to blow up your equipment very soon.

There are many different brands out there today. Most any of them will work if you set them up properly. I've had good experiences with Mitsubishi, AB, ABB, Toshiba, Minarick, Saftronics, Yascowa, & about a half dozen others.

The big thing for you to look for is probably that your drive is rated for minimum 2HP 3-ph out with 220 1-phase in. Double check that the rating is valid for use with single phase primary power. It would also be nice if it has terminals for remote speed & start/stop control. If you want electronic motor braking, then you might want to look & see if you can get a drive with a built in brake chopper.

Let me know if you need more info or if you want me to look at a specific model of drive & comment on its usefulness in this application.

Regards,
Jim

[Marvin S]

If you need more info go to practicalmachinist.com and there is a whole section devoted to VFDs and rotary phase converters.
I run the TECO Westinghouse and have had zero problems with it.

[SPRINGFIELDM141972]

As always, the information shared here is a step above. Thank you Jim for your input.

I'm going to take you up on your offer to overlook what I am considering for use. Please see below.

http://www.driveswarehouse.com/Drives/AC+Drives/Phase+Converter+VFD/X200-015NFU1.html?osCsid=948b4e6a3c645cbc9373a3456702bc 3f

I am not affliated with the company in the web address. (fact of the matter is, only a fool would hire me to deal with electronics:veryconfu ) They seem as cheap as any I have found on the web.

Regards,
Everett

[JIMinPHX]

That one looks like a good choice. The price looks good too. It's been about 6 or 8 years since I used a Hitachi drive, but I had good results with it. Their documentation seems to have improved. That one has all the bells & whistles that you would be likely to want.

The only things that look like they would require a little extra reading are figuring out how to wire the primary power in correctly & how to get into the programming menu using the keys on the front of the drive. The primary wiring may be a little screwy because it is a combination 3-phase or single-phase input. You may need to change a program parameter, dip switch, jumper wire or something. It should all be in the manual. Whatever you do, don't put primary power to the motor terminals. That blows the drive up instantly, like an M-80 going off.

Those little Hitachi drives usually have some fairly dainty little terminal blocks for the controls wiring. You will need to use small wires, like 22ga, & be a little gentle when handling them. Once they are wired, they work fine. Mount it somewhere that it will be safe from flying chips & coolant, but will still have air flow for cooling. Put strain reliefs on the wires going to it. I repeat, put strain reliefs on the wires.

It looks like that drive has a brake chopper built in, but not the brake resistor. If you want dynamic braking, you will need to add a big fat resistor. It also has all the inputs that you would be likely to want for remote controls of various types.

In some cases, I've used an old toaster for the big fat resistor. If the number of ohms are correct, that usually works well & used toasters tend to be a lot cheaper than commercial viterious or even sand pot resistors. If you can get a regular resistor for a good price, then I'd go that route. If not, there are other options.

Nice job on the refurbishing.

[scrapcan]

not sure what size resistor one might need, but you might check marlin P jones website as they have a varitey of large resistor. both variable and set types. I am using one for a battery load tester for agm batteries used on remote recording equipment.

[SPRINGFIELDM141972]

Jim,

Again thank you for your help.

After looking at the unit, is it worth the extra $50 to up the drive to a 3 hp unit as opposed to the 2 hp?

I'm really at a loss when it comes to anything over household circuitry, so please bear with me.

Regards,
Everett

[JIMinPHX]

If you want fast acceleration, or if you want to be able to upgrade to a larger motor later, then you should go for the bigger one. You should be able to change a program parameter in the bigger drive & limit the drive's current output to run the smaller motor safely.

[SPRINGFIELDM141972]

Well this is the unit I purchased.

http://www.driveswarehouse.com/Drives/AC+Drives/Sensorless+Vector+VFD/SJ200-015NFU2.html

I opted to go with it as it had the dynamic braking ability built in.

Man that hurts me to spend that much on plastic.:cry:

I'm thinking I can mount it to the backside of the motor tower.

[JIMinPHX]

Yea, it hurts to spend that much on plastic, but that plastic can do some awful nice things for you.

Just make sure that you put enough guards around it to keep the chips & coolant out. I set up a 10hp drive on a lathe for a buddy of mine back east several years ago. He didn't heed my warnings about the chips too well & opted for only a few cardboard deflectors. The drive ran great for about 2 years, then one day some fluffy aluminum finish cut chips wafted in through the vents, got sucked up by the fans & POOF! The whole thing was landfill. I used to repair those things for elevator companies as a sideline, but that one was beyond help.

On the bright side, a year from now you will remember how nice it runs but hopefully will have forgotten how painful it was to purchase. I think that you will be happy with it in the long run.

[SPRINGFIELDM141972]

I'm going to put it in an steel electrical enclosure and mount the key pad on the door. I know I'm going to have to be careful about heat but I should be okay with enough louvers. I'm figuring one 3x3 on the bottom and two 3x3s on the side at the top should be enough.

[JIMinPHX]

Louvers are a little dangerous because flying chips can still bounce up into them. What is better, is a 3" fan & vent kit with an open cell foam filter. If you are going to run the lathe hot & heavy, then that is what you should have. If the lathe is only going to see lite duty use, then you can get away without the venting.

On some drives, you can unbolt the heatsink from the back of the unit, mount the drive to the inside of the box & mount the heat sink to the outside of the box in the same place & not worry about having any vents on the box. The heat would transfer through the metal box to the heatsink. I don't know if this drive is made that way or not. There was one brand of drive that used to advertise that feature, but I don't remember what brand it was. I do remember that they were very expensive. A fan & foam filter vent is probably best.

A NEMA 11 box (dustproof) is best to use, but they tend to be expensive. You can probably get away with an el-cheapo NEMA 1 (indoor), if you tape up the obvious openings. A plastic NEMA 4x (waterproof/corrosion resistant) box is not a bad compromise if you install the 3" fan/foam filter vent kit. It's kind of nice to get a plastic 4X box with a clear cover (door) on it, because then you can see the drive. In some cases, it is useful to be able to see the digital display on the drive to monitor HZ or RPM or Amps or error codes.

[JIMinPHX]

Do you have her up & running yet?

[JIMinPHX]

Is she making chips yet?

[SPRINGFIELDM141972]

No, She ain't up yet. :(

I am awaiting the gear shop to get my replacement gears, half-nut, and leadscrew completed and back to me.

I have the motor, and the VFD in hand, I am going to get the assistance of my company's electrical department to wire up the drive and the motor. I could handle the basic in and out wiring but I want to install an emergency break/kill switch in a 'handy' location and an on/off switch at the front of the machine. I am going to keep the drive and keypad enclosed in the enclosure at the back of the machine. If I need to change the speed of the lathe for a special purpose I can change it back there, but the gearbox should allow for the normal speed changes.

I did get to install the automatic reversing mechanism. My machine was missing a couple of parts and I was able to locate them from a member over on practicalmachinist. This should allow for "Hendy type threading without use of a thread dial". I probably won't use the function, but it is suppose to have the ability do it so I figured I went this far with the restoration my as well repair that too.

I successfully broke my foot yesterday so I am not able to do much on it anyway. I'll just impatiently await the arrival of the gears and let me foot heal.:?

Regards,
Everett

[Rick459]

glad i ran into this post as i have a chance to purchase a Hendey 14x30 lathe with alot of tooling that goes with it and the three phase converter. never heard of a Hendey before and was wondering if it would be a good buy. looks like it will be.
Rick
http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o301/rick4570/Picture103-1.jpg
http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o301/rick4570/Picture104-1.jpg
http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o301/rick4570/Picture105-1.jpg

[JIMinPHX]

My Hendy was missing a gear when I got it. I wasn't able to find a correct replacement, so I made one out of 660 Nylon. She ran nice & quiet with that Nylon gear.

I didn't have access to a hobber at the time, so I did it the hard way. I made up a pin locating fixture, drilled a circular pattern of holes in the blank that corresponded to the number of teeth that I needed, hand ground a tool bit, put it in a fly cutter & had at it with a Bridgeport. It took a while, but it worked.

[SPRINGFIELDM141972]

I had the gears so I decided to just have them duplicated. I figured, since it would take me some to set up to cut these gears in someone else's shop, that I would probably wear out my welcome in the shop. Now I kinda wish I had sent them out and just did them myself. But alas hindsight is 2020.

Regards,
Everett

[PatMarlin]

That is one cool looking Beast Rick.

If the ways are in good shape, good price and overall working well I'd snap it up.

[JIMinPHX]

What Pat said +1

[Char-Gar]

Rick.. That old machine makes my mouth drool!

[PatMarlin]

Wouldn't it be cool if that lathe was hardly worn?

The prospect of a new lathe is enticing. I want a 12x36 minimum one of these days, and I get tired of dealing with used stuff, but then new junk really tics me off.

Take the G4003G Grizzly for instance-

http://www.grizzly.com/products/Gunsmith-s-Bench-Top-Lathe-with-Stand/G4003G

Lots of good reports on this lathe and very accurate barrel work going back since 2007. It would be perfect for my needs, and would work well with my off grid system.

But is this thing gonna wear out and become a pile of heavy junk in no time? I don't need it for production work, just personal prototype design work and repairs.

Grizz seems to really support their products.

The only machine I have from them is the G0555 Bandsaw:

http://www.grizzly.com/products/The-Ultimate-14-Bandsaw/G0555

I bought this last year on sale for $400 shipped mainly to cut aluminum and it does a fantastic job. Definitely a lot of machine for the money. Beats the heck out of the old Sears 12" I had here, and I couldn't afford an expensive metal cutting machine.

Would it hold up to serious production work? Obviously not, but all parts are supported, and it will handle my home shop work needs, and the light production work of cutting my aluminum ejector arms for the Checkmaker™ dies.

The 2 machines I need to rely on for heavy production is the Hardinge CHNC and my Webb Bport Clone knee mill. Both of those are proven to handle the task at hand.

But what about the Grizz Gunsmith lathe? Where does it sit in the mix?

[SPRINGFIELDM141972]

Well, I guess I just got a case of the reda$$. I finally had all I could stand waiting for the gearshop to finish my gears, so I called them up to check status for the 7th time. I was told they just decided that they would not be able to do them for me. I asked how long it had been since they quit working on them...a month! No phone calls, no appologies, no nothing, just come by when ever I would like and pick up the old ones. I drove the 250 miles to pick them up and sent them to another shop. We'll see if it works out this time.

I am not happy, to say the least.

[JIMinPHX]

Let me know if you need help finding another gear shop.

My guess is that the guy you went to figured that he would buy a stock gear, then bore the hub & do whatever other machine work was needed to make the standard gear fit your application. He probably then found out that there were no stock gears available with the right combination of pitch diameter, pressure angle & tooth count, & that's when he got stuck. He probably didn't plan to bail out. He probably figured that if he kept looking, he would eventually find the basic gear that he needed to work with, but it never happened. I suspect that this is the case, because I ended up having to make a gear for the Hendy That I used to have. It was a pain in the butt. I ended up doing it myself on a Bridgeport with a home made indexing fixture & a hand ground tool bit in a fly cutter. I was pretty broke back then, but I was creative & determined. It ended up working pretty well.

You need to find a shop that has a hobbing machine, not just a machine shop that can broach & bore a standard gear. You also need to find a place that is small enough to be willing to make just 1.

[Linstrum]

I didn't go far enough forward in the thread to see what color you chose until today. Looks nice.
Good Luck and have fun!


rl801

[Linstrum]

There is a Yahoo Group who are a bunch of gear-heads who specialize in the art of gear cutting, you could look them up and find out if any of them are willing to get set up to cut your gears. The email for the group is

mwmills2@yahoogroups.com

Quite a few are professional gear cutters who are passing along their knowledge because gear cutting is headed toward becoming a dead art in the U.S.

Jay Leno made a comment a few years back that he was concerned about U.S. industry going down the toilet when he couldn't find a gear shop to make some transmission gears for one of his antique cars. He posed the question of how come Franklin or Stutz, or whatever his car was, could make these gears in the 1920s but nobody can do it now. He's got a point!


rl803

[singleshotman]

How did you agree to pay them, i've had silimar problems in the past when dealing with machine shops in my home town(i no longer live their). My advice is find a guy willing to do it AFTER HOURS and pay cash.As Osker Schlinder would say, "cash talks". It works.

[PatMarlin]

Well that bites for sure.

Schlinder- he'd be rolling in his grave right about now over the idiot Obama.

[Just Duke]

Well the lathe turned out reaL NICE!

[SPRINGFIELDM141972]

Thanks Duke Nukem. She ain't finished yet. I still am dealing with the gears as mentioned above. I spent allot of time just cleaning and de-burring and I am excited and anxious to get this ol girl back in the dance. Its kind of like having a rifle ready for the range and having to wait on brass to arrive in the mail.

[SPRINGFIELDM141972]

I guess this my monthly update.

Well the last attempt at a gearshop didn't work out to my liking either.

$2900.00!:shock:

I'm currently on the hunt for used gears. Don't know that I'll have anymore luck, but I've got too much time and money invested now to stop.

Looks like another 250 mile trip is in my future.:groner:

If anyone knows of a old Hendey being parted out, let me know.

It's defiantly become the principle of the matter with this project. I refuse to give up.

[Just Duke]

Try Ebay.

[SPRINGFIELDM141972]

I've been watching Ebay. But like everything else on there, is either A: worn out, or B too stink high for what it is.

[scrapcan]

Everett,


i think there are a couple of guys on teh south bend lathe or south bend 10k forum that will gut gears. I will see if I can find some contact info for you. Or you and look back a few posts at the one by Linstrum, maybe one of the group can help out.

[SPRINGFIELDM141972]

I saw Linstrum's post and I will check it out.

[JIMinPHX]

What does the gear you need look like? What is the tooth count, profile, pressure angle, face width, & pitch diameter? What do you need for center features? Is it just an idler? Does it need a key?

[SPRINGFIELDM141972]

JIMinPHX

The gear are as follows:

1. 48T, 14DP, 20P.A., A Type, standard O.D. and Teeth, 7/8 F.W., 1.3135 Bore, 1/4" Keyway

2. 72T, 14DP, 20P.A., A Type, standard O.D. and Teeth, 7/8 F.W., 2.75 Bore, .1875" Keyway

3. 90T, 18DP, 14.5P.A., A Type, standard O.D. and Teeth, 3/4 F.W., .875 Bore, .1875" Keyway

No centering features. The 14D.P. gears are part of the back gears, and the 18D.P. is out of the quick-change box.

I'm not going to change the lead-screw, as I had intended. The wear is localized and I probably won't be threading long areas anyway. The half nuts for this machine has babbitt teeth as a safety feature, so I will just re-pour those.

Everett

[JIMinPHX]

Ooooph, 14 & 18 diametrical pitch. You are in trouble. Those DPs aren't even listed in Browning or Boston's catalog. They don't even show up in most of the newer calculation books. Those are all going to be custom cuts.

It sounds like you are in the same boat that I was in. My solution at the time, was to cut a gear blank out of a piece of hard nylon with a 1" bore. I then drilled a pattern of holes around the 1" bore on a 2" BC with an 1/8" hole for each gear tooth that I would need to cut. I then made a fixture with a 1" pin at the center, a 1/8" pin 2" off center & a clamp. I hand ground a HSS tool bit & ran it in a modified fly cutter on a Bridgeport. The fixture would center the gear blank on the 1" pin & I would manually index it from one 1/8" pin hole to the next after cutting each individual tooth. I can make up a sketch if you would like me to. It worked, but it was labor intensive.

After having gone through all that, I later found that I could have bought a pre ground 18DP cutter from these guys for about $20 - http://www.wttool.com/index-exec/ They sell cheap import stuff, but for just 1 or 2 gears on an old machine with some wear, a cheap import gear tooth cutter should be OK.

If you need some tech references, these are a few good places to start -
http://bostongear.com/pdf/gear_theory.pdf
http://www.martinsprocket.com/2001/SecG.pdf#G84
http://www.martinsprocket.com/2001/SecG.pdf#G85
http://www.hobbing.com/

If you want to just buy gears, as opposed to making them yourself, then you need to find a real gear shop that has a hobber, not just some machine shop that bores & broaches stock gears. There used to be a good gear shop here in Phoenix about 5 or 6 years ago, but i can't remember the name. I'll try to look them back up. Don't bother going to the vultures like Rush Gears. Those thieves quoted me over $600 for a gear that I later made out of a $30 stock gear with about 2 hours of work.

Let me chew on this for a little bit & see what I can come up with.

[JIMinPHX]

I found them. These are the guys that gave me a reasonable quote on some custom cut gears about 5 years ago - http://www.gear-one.com/ They do a lot of custom off road automotive stuff, but they do standard profile spur gears as well. At least they did 5 years ago.

These guys might also be worth talking to -
http://www.grobinc.com/coldrolled/std_spur_gears.htm
I believe that they sell hunks of involute shaft that you saw-cut a hunk off of to use as a gear.

This is another gear house that I just stumbled onto - http://www.kimberlygear.net/

A reasonable quote to custom hob the gears you are looking for would probably be around $100-$150 per gear in my opinion.

Please let me know if you would like me to approach my local shop & ask for a quote.

[SPRINGFIELDM141972]

JIMinPHX

Thank you very much for your efforts. I don't want to put you out by asking you to go to your local shop. I can contact them if my efforts here fail. I would like to see your indexing jig sketch though. What area of the above link has the ground 18DP cutter? I looked but couldn't find it.

Kind Regards,
Everett

[PatMarlin]

Be nice to find a parts donor Everett. Maybe put a wanted post over on Practicle machinist. Maybe drum up some gears even.

[PatMarlin]

It would seem to me these gear guys would have a custome CNC program where they could enter the specs and draw the gear and make it so captain with little effort.

[jmh54738]

Everett, I have had a Hendey like Rick's photos for many years, a good machine, has never needed a repair. In my quest to be able to do everything myself, the journey becomes consuming. A B&S universal dividing head provides my indexing, the Cincinnatti universal horizontal mill allows for spiral gears, a collection of 150 gear tooth cutters provide tooling, a K.O. Lee tool and cutter grinder conditions the cutters, and now I have two hobbers. Hobbs cost $800. Do I have enough tooling? Am I independent? No!, on both counts. The last two gears (pinions) that I made were modular (metric) for someone's Enco lathe. I ground up a flycutter. Also, I don't have a single cutter or hobb that is 20 PA. It has been suggested that the gears be made "after hours" in a gear shop; so it is ok to steal the shop owners electricity, tooling use, lighting, materials, and pirate his work, etc? It is stated that $100-$150 would be a reasonable price to cut each gear. I agree, it is very reasonable for the buyer, however I would not supply your gears at that reasonable price. Talk about odd ball, my LeBlond lathe has 9DP gears. I made a pair of reversing gears because they were getting loud. The old tool builders liked odd, because only they could supply parts. You need to have a buddy with mill and some improvised tooling. But for the time spend, your gears will be almost free. Any gear shop will be expensive for one up gears. I wish that I could be more encouraging, but I'm sure that you will reach your goal. John

[JIMinPHX]

That place has several pages of gear cutters. I see that the prices went up a little. The $20 cutters are now more like $30. See if this link get's you into the right area - http://www.wttool.com/category-exec/category_id/21303/nm/No_1_High_Speed_Involute_Gear_Cutters_WT_/page_num/3

Below are two sketches. One shows a basic jig that could be grabbed in the vice of a Bridgeport. The other shows what a blank might look like. The blank is for a gear with 8 teeth that would be 3" in OD. That is not the size that you need, but it shows the concept. Each small hole would be an indexing point that would locate a gear tooth for a cut. A 48 tooth gear would be made from a blank with 48 evenly spaced holes. This is a way to get accurate indexing without buying an indexing fixture. You do need to be able to generate accurate hole locations though. You will need a couple of C-clamps or a bolt & collar clamp to hold the blank up tight against the fixture when cutting.

The dimensions on these drawings were just pulled out of thin air, to show the concept. They will probably need to be adjusted to cut the actual sizes of gears that you need.

When I said that $100-150 would be a reasonable price, what I really should have said, was that if you want them cheaper than that, don't even bother looking.

[JIMinPHX]

It would seem to me these gear guys would have a custome CNC program where they could enter the specs and draw the gear and make it so captain with little effort.

Unfortunately, that is not the case. Much of the gear manufacturing software that is out there is not even geometrically correct. many of the programs really fudge the portion below the pitch diameter badly. The equipment used to make gears well is not cheap, nor is it simple to operate. You would think that since gears have been around so long, that making them would be a simple no-brainer by now, but that ain't the way it is.

I was actually a little surprised to hear that comment coming from you in particular. I would have expected that by now, you would have had enough go-rounds with your CNC machine to realize that they are not always as plug-n-play as the general public seems to believe.

[mark.902]

I just got a hendey lathe I think that it is from the early 1900 it has a steped flat belt drive other than that it looks just like yours prerestored I have some questions but the biggest one is how do you adjust the bearings on the spindle shaft?
Mark

[JIMinPHX]

There should be a take up nut on the left hand side of the spindle tube. Tighten it until it just gets snug. Don't overdo it. Those bearings get tighter when it runs & heats up a little. Be sure that your spindle bearing oil cups are dripping regularly.

[SPRINGFIELDM141972]

Your spindle clearance is set using a spacer between the spindle hub and the large bearing. The owner's manual explains how to set this clearance. It's a pretty basic proceedure. I you need a copy, it can be downloaded from the internet for free, just do a search. If you decide not to restore it or it proves to be beyond what you are willing to mess with, let me know as I am in need of some parts.

Let me know if you need any help.

Regards,
Everett

[Texasflyboy]

:popcorn:


:grin:

[BoolitSchuuter]

Hey Everett,
Got any new pictures?
:popcorn::popcorn::popcorn:

[SPRINGFIELDM141972]

Hey Everett,
Got any new pictures?
:popcorn::popcorn::popcorn:

Nothing yet. As noted earlier in the thread, I was, and am, still having trouble with locating/fabricating the damaged gears from the gear train. I hope to be able to get onto this project shortly and complete it. Its been hanging out too long.

I might do so pictures of babbitt re-pour on the half nuts, this weekend.

I haven't giving up on the old girl, she will dance again.

Regards,
Everett

[SPRINGFIELDM141972]

Finally. I have slayed the gear beast and repaired the gears myself. I have located a person to make replacements, but the repairs will work fine for now. I only need to construct a guard for the belts and wire in the VFD.
http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu86/SPRINGFIELDM141972/IMG_0288.jpg
http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu86/SPRINGFIELDM141972/IMG_0289.jpg

[skeet1]

Very impressive!

Ken

[PatMarlin]

Hot Damn Everett!

Congratulations! I like the color too. Old timey pale green.

[JIMinPHX]

She's looking pretty sweet. Let me know if you need any info on VFDs.

[SPRINGFIELDM141972]

Very impressive!

Ken

Thanks Ken. It took alot longer than I planned. In the words of Chief Lone Watie "...we must endeavor to persevere."

Regards
Everett

[PatMarlin]

Thanks Ken. It took alot longer than I planned. In the words of Chief Lone Watie "...we must endeavor to persevere."

Regards
Everett

"It took alot longer than I planned." -hey those are my famous words... :mrgreen:

[SPRINGFIELDM141972]

Might as well be my famous words as well. :-D

I hope I can get wired up soon.

I want to play with it. The first order of business will be to turn a dead center for the tailstock. This Hendey has a 2-1/2 Morse taper for the tailstock. I'll eventually bore the tailstock to a #3 Morse taper.

Regards,
Everett

[Linstrum]

Quote: "In the words of Chief Lone Watie "...we must endeavor to persevere." - - - - - - Another famous line from Josie Wales!

It is looking good, what a struggle you have been through.

How did you take care of the bad gears?


rl962

[frankenfab]

Unfortunately, that is not the case. Much of the gear manufacturing software that is out there is not even geometrically correct. many of the programs really fudge the portion below the pitch diameter badly. The equipment used to make gears well is not cheap, nor is it simple to operate. You would think that since gears have been around so long, that making them would be a simple no-brainer by now, but that ain't the way it is.

I was actually a little surprised to hear that comment coming from you in particular. I would have expected that by now, you would have had enough go-rounds with your CNC machine to realize that they are not always as plug-n-play as the general public seems to believe.

I have to agree with you in that there are so many shops out there that don't have the personnel that can make their CNC machines produce complicated gears. You need the help of software, but you also need the same person to be able to look at the program and be able to tell what is going on, and make the necessary changes manually, or better yet, be good enough with the software to analyze and fix the problem that way.

It just so happens that one of my customers make a replacement gear set for Model T Fords. I have only had to make one service call to his shop, but I got to watch them cast a couple of the bronze gears while I was there.They cast the gears and then machine them on a rotary. The bronze casting is a very meticulate process. It was really neat. As far as CNC'd straight cut gears go, form tooling is your friend! I have seen gear hobbers in action at another customer, and the do look pretty complicated.

Here's a link:

http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/80257/92828.html?1243056375

http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/80257/92839.jpg

[BoolitSchuuter]

[QUOTE=SPRINGFIELDM141972;1170513]Finally. I have slayed the gear beast and repaired the gears myself.
http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu86/SPRINGFIELDM141972/IMG_0288.jpg

WOW!! Outstanding restoration.:drinks::popcorn:

[frankenfab]

Sorry, I totally did not mean to hijack this thread. That is outstanding work Everett!

[SPRINGFIELDM141972]

Sorry, I totally did not mean to hijack this thread. That is outstanding work Everett!

It okay. You didn't hijack it.

[SPRINGFIELDM141972]

Quote: "In the words of Chief Lone Watie "...we must endeavor to persevere." - - - - - - Another famous line from Josie Wales!

It is looking good, what a struggle you have been through.

How did you take care of the bad gears?


rl962


I inserted threaded pins ( read small brass screws) in the gear in way of the missing tooth. Then I brazed the gear and filed the tooth back down by hand. I figure that any minor mis-shaping won't be a problem. Actually the mesh looks and feels really, really good.

Regards,
Everett

P.S.: The Outlaw Josey Wales- One of the greatest all time westerns ever!
That is one Missouri Mule farmer you do not want to mess with.

[PatMarlin]

Everett, really I think that's a life time repair and I don't think you need new gears.

I helped a buddy of mine do that to his old lathe and he has ran it hard with no problems for a few years now.

[SPRINGFIELDM141972]

Pat,

I think your right but I don't want to get ahead of myself until I run it under load.

Everett

[Buckshot]

..............That's one fine looking piece of old American iron. One problem we have these days is a lack of foundries. Back in the early 20th century a town of any size had a foundry. Large places had more. At the ghost town of Bodie I was fascinated by all the old mining equipment sitting around. I counted 3 from different foundries in San Francisco. Heck, lots of machine shops had their own small foundries for the casting of smaller necessities. Nowadays the EPA has such a stranglehold it's about impossible to operate an iron foundry. A problem of probably even larger proportions is finding someone who knows what they're doing in a foundry.

.................Buckshot

[SPRINGFIELDM141972]

Buckshot,

Your absolutely correct. I deal with a couple of foundries as a customer because of my work. The regulations and lack of skilled workforce is a nightmare for those guys. A good foundryman is worth his own weight in gold.

Regards,
Everett

[JIMinPHX]

Did you get that pretty little thing running yet Everett?

[W.R.Buchanan]

Sir your machine has "cone bearings" for the spindle. and they can be adjusted to remove all slack, and as long as they are lubricated they will run true forever. Some of the most accurate cylindrical and centerless grinders use this type of bearing. They were the norm for 300 years until angular contact ball bearings got cheap enough to use for the same application.

These bearings are common to older lathes, Jewelers lathes, and older style cylindrical grinders, like the Crystal Lake, which was designed in the 1920's and is still one of the most accurate grinders there is. It is also ran by an overhead drive belt like your machine is.

You might as well take the bed off the stand, and the rack off the bed and paint everything a nice medium gray. White is also a good choice, as it shows the dirt and makes you keep the machine clean. See pic of my newly painted Cummins diesel for my Jeep project.

Also Dupont Centari is a good paint to use, and the color stays true for along time. it is easy to use and a cheap ($15) Harbor Freight gravity feed touch up spray gun is perfect for application.

Be sure to use some Velva Seal prior to finish painting to seal the oil into the casting otherwise the new paint will suck the oil out and you will end up with serious Fisheyes. Been there.

You work the castings with bondo exactly the same way you do regular automotive body work. Same materials etc. Just remember to use the Velva Seal before you paint!

You can have the ways reground, probably in St Louis, and have the saddle portion of the ways filled with Turcite. a new crossfeed screw and nut (probably have to make these)

Then you will have a new 100 year old machine. And a good one at that. They don't make stuff like these machines today. The vast majority of new engine lathes come from china , and even Taiwan is a major step up from Chinese made machine tools. In another 10 years that won't be the case, as they learn pretty darn quick..

I just helped a friend redo a Cinncinati 12x36 using the same techniques as above. It came out great and he sold it for $5000! He had $800 + 40 hours in it.

good luck on your project and if you need any help or guidance feel free to PM me. I've done a lot of machine rebuilding.

Randy

[SPRINGFIELDM141972]

JIMinPHX-

Sorry its been so long for a response. I have been rather busy with my new job and subsequent move to Alaska. I was able to get the lathe operational prior to my leaving the lower forty eight. My company would not pay for it's move. It is currently soaked in cosmoline and stored under a canvas tarp. It will make it up at a later date or it will be waiting to greet me when I return home.

Regards,
Everett

[PatMarlin]

The Alaska work move sounds like a story unto itself. Inquiring minds wanna know ...:Fire:

[SPRINGFIELDM141972]

Pat:

It has been quite a adventure to say the least.

I am loving it here. I haven't been able to enjoy a winter yet, but that's coming.:groner:

Anyways the company, that I am now employed with, would not move the lathe so my "I am now the proud owner of an operational full size lathe" status was a short one. I am back to the little grizzly lathe and bench top mill.

I don't want to sound as if I am complaining, because I am not. I am is in awe of the money spend by this company to move me and my wife. I know if I was the owner, I wouldn't have spent it.

I'm glad to be back to the forum, although not as much as I like.

Regards,
Everett

[skimmerhead]

Everett that is a beautiful restoration!! it shows first class workmanship, and a man that takes pride in his work, my compliments! it's a shame you had to leave it behind, hope it won't be too long before you get it up there.

skimmerhead

[PatMarlin]

He can always send it to me Danny. I'll take it!

[skimmerhead]

He can always send it to me Danny. I'll take it!

would you keep it warm when it turns cold ?

skimmerhead:lol: