230 grainers for .45 acp

[chasw]

Most M1911 pattern pistols seem to prefer 200 grain bullets (as Old John intended), while others show a decided preference for 230 grainers. My pet Colt's Gold Cup is in the latter category and very accurate with its BarSto barrel. I want to switch from j------- bullets to cast, but need some advice about which boolit designs and mold makers have demonstrated the best accuracy for this application, e.g., round nose, plain base. Also, is my usual Lyman No 2 alloy best for my pet loads of Bluedot or 800X at about 825 fps? My pistol is not picky about feeding different nose shapes from the mag into the chamber. thx - CW

[Ben]

You might want to take a look at the Lee 230 gr. TL , truanted cone micro band bullet. Shoots ( and feeds well ) from a variety of 45 ACP pistols. Watch the final diameter of your as cast bullets. Some 45 ACP pistols don't like bullets much over .452 dia. Some function better with a .451 dia. bullet. I always like to try the larger .452 dia. 1st, if you experience chambering problems go to the .451 dia. and try that.

[NVcurmudgeon]

Lyman 452374 is a clone of GI ball and has been very accurate in a number of Colt 1911s for me. No. 2 is fine in the .45 ACP, but so is straight WW.

[Oldtimer]

I also use the Lyman 225 gr RN with WW. Shoots great in my Glock, as well as my 1911. Bob

[mpmarty]

I have settled on the LEE 230gr Truncated cone tumble lube boolit. It feeds well in all my pistols including the SA XD45. Accuracy is good and it's easy to cast with the lee six banger mold. I tumble lube in LLA and load them up over some Red Dot powder. Life is good!:cbpour:

[Le Loup Solitaire]

Hi, All current mold makers offer what is essentially a round nose design that is in the 225-235 grain range and all do a good job of duplicating the GI ball bullet. I use the H & G #34 and the RCBS version and get good results with both. I load them with 4.0-4.1 grains of Red Dot. Functioning is good with the semi autos and the loading also performs well in my 45 ACP revolvers. LLS

[fredj338]

For a tuned 1911, I doubt anything beats the 200grLSWC for pure accuracy. I would switch powders though. Both you mention work best in +P loadings & @ 825fps, you are leaving unburnt powder. Try WST, most accurate powder I have tried in the 45acp @ target to factory vel. levels.

[GabbyM]

If you'd like a 230gr round nose flat point Saeco makes one in a 45LC crimp grove bullet. It's supposed to cast big enough to size at .454" so even though it's a Saeco it will make .452" easy. Shoots great in a ACP. I've never tried to make a hole in anything but with a good sized meplate it should hit much harder than a RN.

[ScottJ]

I use the RCBS 230gr RN and found that .452 is too tight in my 1911's chamber for reliable function.

.451 works fine without leading and over 4.7 grains of Bullseye I can shoot 7 yard groups you can cover with a 50 cent piece.

[RobS]

The Lee Truncated design.........either the tumble lube or the traditional lube groove bullet molds have functioned in several 1911's a Taurus and my XD. The XD will not work with SWC so the truncated design is what I started to cast with for the 230 grain area.........these bullets are closer to 240 grains though. Accuracy is very good with this bullet design.

I now enjoy the Lee 200 RF bullet as it feeds well and has a huge meplat that a person could dance on. It weighs in at 210 grains and is also very accurate.

[fredj338]

I use the RCBS 230gr RN and found that .452 is too tight in my 1911's chamber for reliable function.

.451 works fine without leading and over 4.7 grains of Bullseye I can shoot 7 yard groups you can cover with a 50 cent piece.
Not to sound condecending, but one can shoot 50c size groups @ 7yds w/ just about any bullet/powder/gun combo, a good gun & ammo will do a ragged hole that can be covered w/ a 1/4. Stretch that out to at least 15yds to find ot what kind fo real accruacy ytou are getting.

[chasw]

For a tuned 1911, I doubt anything beats the 200grLSWC for pure accuracy. I would switch powders though. Both you mention work best in +P loadings & @ 825fps, you are leaving unburnt powder. Try WST, most accurate powder I have tried in the 45acp @ target to factory vel. levels.

Thanks, Fred. We have two M1911s in our family. My son's Essex parts gun, like most pistols of this type, does best with 200 gr SWC over fast powders, preferably WST with WLP primers. Some believe the 1911 design calls for bullets to leave the barrel as quickly as possible before the slide moves too far.

My Gold Cup, on the other hand, does much better accuracywise with 230 grainers. After much experimentation with faster powders, I have finally settled on Bluedot and 800X with mag primers, which mitigates the unburned flakes to some degree. For one thing, these fluffy powders fill more of the case than the fast ball powders. Other than that, the details of interior ballistics are pretty much a mystery. - CW

[pistolman44]

I have built and tuned quite a few 1911's and have 10 of my own some I built and a few factory Colts. If you plan on shooting for target accuracy you can't go wrong using a 200 gr LSWC. Seat the bullet just a hair short of the top edge of the top band. Tapper crimp also. I always use a 4 die setup one for seating and one for tapper crimping. Have a good throated barrel and the feed ramp polished to mirror finish. White ruge polishing compound is good for this, It doesn't remove any metal. But if you got a good fitting barrel and barrel bushing 230LRN should work just fine.

[beagle]

I have owned three Gold Cups and a flock of GI guns and now have a Combat Target Model. Every one of them fed and shot with accuracy the Lyman 452374 230 grain RN and the Lyman 452460 200 grain SWC and have taken care of all my needs.

The RCBS 45-230-CM ain't bad either./beagle

[MtGun44]

200 gr "as John intended"?????

I believe that the original load for the 1911 was a 230 FMJ.

Bill

[RobS]

Yeppers, John Browning intended the 45 auto to use 200 grain bullets and when the military was to adopt the 45 auto to replace the 45 colt a heavier bullet for the 45 auto was also established. I believe this is what I read some time back anyway.

Updated: Here is a little history I just looked up on it.

http://www.sightm1911.com/Care/45acp.htm

[Jack Stanley]

Rob , years ago I remember reading about the two hundred grain bullets at over nine hundred feet per second . I think it was during the time the forty S&W was entering the scene and loaded with the same weight bullets and similar velocities . It seemed folks wanted to point out the forty-five had been there and done that already .

They can argue the merits of each all they want but I don't think I'd want to try and catch either one with a softball mitt ;-)

Jack

[randyrat]

I have built and tuned quite a few 1911's and have 10 of my own some I built and a few factory Colts. If you plan on shooting for target accuracy you can't go wrong using a 200 gr LSWC. Seat the bullet just a hair short of the top edge of the top band. Tapper crimp also. I always use a 4 die setup one for seating and one for tapper crimping. Have a good throated barrel and the feed ramp polished to mirror finish. White ruge polishing compound is good for this, It doesn't remove any metal. But if you got a good fitting barrel and barrel bushing 230LRN should work just fine. That would be an interesting thread; How to tune a 1911 for people like me that don't have a clue.
Tapper crimp? i've been "just smoothing out the bell" Do you think it can help to put a little crimp in the mix? I've always worried about swaging the cast bullet down too much. I'm not trying to argue just wondering/questioning. I may try it again, if others have had good luck doing that.
I measure the seated bullet/ outside case and keep it straight no tapper. But if someone has a better method, i'm all ears.
I'm leaning toward the 230 gr Lee vs the 200 gr Lee so far for acuracy in my gun.

[Cloudpeak]

That would be an interesting thread; How to tune a 1911 for people like me that don't have a clue.
Tapper crimp? i've been "just smoothing out the bell" Do you think it can help to put a little crimp in the mix? I've always worried about swaging the cast bullet down too much. I'm not trying to argue just wondering/questioning. I may try it again, if others have had good luck doing that.
I measure the seated bullet/ outside case and keep it straight no tapper. But if someone has a better method, i'm all ears.
I'm leaning toward the 230 gr Lee vs the 200 gr Lee so far for acuracy in my gun.

I think you're doing fine, RR. The taper crimp die should really be named "the case mouth bevel removal die" but that's too long and cumbersome. You can get into trouble by turning the T.C. die down too much. I think your point about swaging down the lead bullet is valid.

[RobS]

Rob , years ago I remember reading about the two hundred grain bullets at over nine hundred feet per second . I think it was during the time the forty S&W was entering the scene and loaded with the same weight bullets and similar velocities . It seemed folks wanted to point out the forty-five had been there and done that already .

They can argue the merits of each all they want but I don't think I'd want to try and catch either one with a softball mitt ;-)

Jack

Well the 40 S&W came out in 1990 as it is stated in this link:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.40_S&W

The 45 acp was being tested with 200 grain bullets in the early 1900's.

[Willbird]

In my XD the Lee 230 TC grease groove bullet sized .451 loaded over top of the maximum load of blue dot in the Lyman manual is the most accurate load I have found, it is not a mild load by any means :-)

[MtGun44]

I use an actual taper CRIMP. I push about half the thickness of the case
neck into the lead, by eyeball and you may want to use a magnifier if your
eyes are a bit aged, like mine are. 30 yrs ago I could just look at it!

I think you risk pushing the boolit into the case if you somehow run into a
dimensional mismatch with a particular boolit or brass combo and don't have
an actual crimp to postively locate the boolit during the relatively violent feeding
cycle. For a single shot rifle, crimping is unnecessary. For revolvers it is to keep
the boolits in place during recoil. For semiauto pistols it is to keep the boolit from
pushing into the case, dramatically raising pressures. A few kabooms have been
probably caused by pushed in boolits, although after the fact it is pretty tough to
absolutely prove it.

With half the brass thickness pushed into the lead, you will be providing a solid lock
to prevent the boolit from pushing in, yet it will release pretty easily upon firing. If you
pull out your barrel and push a round into the chamber you will feel the solid hit as the
remaining case mouth edge hits the front edge of the chamber, positively locating the
round, the other requirement that you must meet.

I have seen quite a lot of jams in 1911s that are traced back to inadequate or no taper
crimp that have immediately been solved by this level of moderate taper crimp. In my
experience, this is the most common cause of handload FTF. Too long a LOA with the
bullet jamming into the rifling is the most common cause of failure to close jams.

If your gun is happy, you are good to go.
---- unless someday some unusually thin necked brass (R-P is the usual suspect)
and a slightly undersized boolit conspire to erase your normal neck tension and the boolit
pushes in and . . . . .

YMMV.

Bill

[Iowa Fox]

My Lyman 452460 does such an excellent job in my 1911 I have looked no farther.

[Jack Stanley]

Rob , that's it exactly . The forty-five has been doing this kinda thing for a long time maybe that's why we like it so .

Jack

[RobS]

Rob , that's it exactly . The forty-five has been doing this kinda thing for a long time maybe that's why we like it so .

Jack

Now that is something to take to the bank. The 45 acp is one cartridge that can be reloaded so many different ways and still be one of the major defense cartridges of today. Over a hundred years of performance and still going strong.

[hedgehorn]

The Lee tumble lube 230 TC feeds swell in my 1911's

[randyrat]

MtGun44.... You have a very good point there. A Kaboom is very hard to prove after the fact. I may try that with my 45 loads....Crimp half the thickness of the brass. That is not enough to swage any cast bullet and gives a safety factor for a high pressure bullet set back BOOM.
I've had a FTF before (Why?) and seen the bullet get set back a little. Just enough to make you wonder and put that bullet in the reject bucket.