308 or 30-06?

[2ndAmendmentNut]

Yes I know it is a hard question, and I am also aware that there are other 30cal cartridges out there, but which is your favorite? Feel free to post why.

[johniv]

The 'o6 has more flexability in loading , the smaller 308 ,while a fine cartridge seems to run out of case cap with some of the slower powders I have used. Both are more than accurate enough for my uses and my 308 is prolly my favorite rifle, but I started with the '06 and really like to load for it. my.02
John

[arcticbreeze]

I voted for the 308 however that only applies to cbs and plinking. I personally prefer to fill the case as much as possible and feel the 308 capacity is more suited to cb velocities. With J word bullets the gap closes quite a bit. However, I prefer the 30-06 for an all around hunting rifle. I hunt in areas where 100 yds is a long shot and I prefer a heavier, slower boolit. I am sure others will disagree but that is my humble opinion. So I guess my real answer is it depends on the desired use.

[iron mule]

i'll have to go with the 308 just due to the fact that i have had extensive training with it and it is more familular and comfortable to me// but to each his own
mule

[Tazman1602]

Man tough choice since I have both and like both. Had to go with 06 over 308 though. I've had 30-06 since I could hunt and know the cartridge pretty well, I've only owned 308's for about 15 years. Pretty hard to beat the 'ole ought-six in my mind.

If I had to hump ammo all day and needed as much as I could carry to stay alive then the 308 wins.................

[watkibe]

It's good that this is a question that's easy to answer: Which do you like ? If it was "which is better?" there is no real answer. Since everybody is different, there is a different right answer for everybody. Also, if you sat down with 2 identical rifles loaded with max loads and 165gr boolits, but didn't know which was the '08 and which was the '06, could you really tell the difference ?

I like the 308. Originally the thing that decided me was the availability of cheap and plentiful military brass. Another thing is that the government does a lot of research to pick good cartridges, and once chosen, they rarely become obsolete.

I now buy new commercial brass; known history, larger capacity and no primer crimp are well worth the greater cost. Cast boolits give me great results easily. The short action is lighter and faster, and cartridges are lighter. It kills deer like a hammer. Bullets from 100gr to 200gr all work well. I even load 55 gr 0.224 bullets in sabots for home brewed Accelerator loads, which are no longer available from Remington.

[454PB]

The .308 was my second centerfire rifle, and I killed my first Elk with it. I still own that rifle.

Over the years, I've owned three 30/06's, and ended up selling or trading off all of them. I just haven't found anything the 30/06 would do that the the .308 wouldn't.

[Charlie Sometimes]

I like the '06- good enough for two world wars, and can take out anything in North Am short of a Griz.

[Trifocals]

My vote goes to the .308. I purchased my first one in 1961 and have always had at least one. At present, I have four. Yep, it's about 100fps slower than the .30-06, but the critters don't seem to notice the difference plus the accuracy always seemed better.

[Big Country]

I own 1 of each but I dont know enough about either to make a valid remark. I have been loading for the .308 and have been having fun.

[AZ-Stew]

The 30-06 will shoot heavier bullets to a higher velocity than the 308. Maybe the speed difference is academic, but it does exist.

I've only owned one .308. It was a circa. 1973 Winchester Model 70A (no hinged floor plate) that I bought via the Navy Exchange for my wife to use as a deer rifle. She was the first to shoot it and complained about the recoil. So I shot it. I found out what she was talking about. That #&))&@# rifle kicked like a mule! Shooting 150 gr bullets from it was like shooting 180 or 200 gr bullets from any of the 30-06s I've owned. Now, I know it was the design of the stock, not the cartridge, but since I have '06s that suit my needs, I've never had the urge to buy another .308. I may be missing something by not having one, but I'm not sure what. I would buy an M1-A if I could scrape up the $$ for it. I'm not against the .308, I just don't have much use for it.

Regards,

Stew

[HeavyMetal]

Voted .308.

Basically almost identical performance in a shorter package! This means handier rifles like Savage 99's and carbine length bolt guns. For most game in the 48 states the 308 will get it done.

If I ever plan on being some place I got to deal with Griz I have a Marlin Model 95 in 45-70!

[stubshaft]

30/06

Call me nostalgic but one of my favorite hunting rifles is an open sighted Husqvarna bolt gun in '06. Look at all of the different variants it has spawned 25/06, 270Win, 280Rem, 35 Whelan and a host of others. If the parent case wasn't near perfection than how would wildcatting it be so prevelant?

[Kraschenbirn]

Went with the .308 simply 'cause the both my .308s shoot better with case...which accounts for better than 90% of my ammo these days...than either of my .30-06s. On the other hand, for heavy (180-200 gr) JBs at upper-end velocities, I'll go with my Douglas-barreled FN Mauser every time.

Bill

[Blacksmith]

Because it is an age old classic and I am fast getting to a similar age. The .308 is good also but I LIKE the '06 and it will do everything I need it to. Store bought ammo from 55 gr. to 220 gr. and reloads can offer even more choices and everything in between.

Blacksmith

[7of7]

In all actuality, I think it is just about a coin toss... I have '06s because that is what my dad reloaded and I learned to shoot... I love the 94 lever guns, but that is a different subject... I have a couple Garands too... so, if I am going to reload, I like to keep it to a few cartridges rather than a bunch of different ones...

[Gun-adian]

I love both of them, but I have to pick .308 due to the availability of once-fired brass.

[MT Gianni]

I picked the 06 because of the availability of surplus brass.

[captaint]

308 for me. I have 3 of em. Love that short action &performance. Yes, if someone said "Mike, we're going big bear hunting in Alaska" I would get me a 30-06 & load up some 200 odd grain bullets and stuff her full of slow powder. But by golly,that hasn't happened yet!! Certainly, they're both teriffic cartridges. enjoy Mike

[DeadWood]

.30-06 cause i have only shot and loaded for it.

[Lead Fred]

A 308 is a 30-06 light.

There us nothing my 30-06 cant do, that a 308 can.

How ever I can use 180-240gr boolits in a 30-06 where they will preform inferiority
to the 30-06.

I can push a 180gr as fast or faster than a 308 can fire a 165.

In fact I can match most short mags, and the lower end of the win mag speeds.

The 308 cant even touch any of these.

I bought 100s to surplus LC 06 cases years ago. I have enough to last several lifetimes.

[dualsport]

I have a CZ '06 and a Garand. In a serious pinch I can put my chamber adapter in either one and shoot .308. Done it, it works fine. It's the type I believe the Navy used for the same purpose with Garands. It stays put, you use a broken shell remover to take it out. So I like the '06 because it's more versatile, in more ways than one.

[357maximum]

308 please. I do not use uber heavy boolits/or bullets in any of mine so 308 it is. If I need a bigger boolit/bullet....I have a Whelen for that. [smilie=f:

[lwknight]

30-06 is just in the middle of everyting. If you already own a 30-06 its pointless to buy another 308,270 or even a 300mag.
If starting over I might have a 308 and a 300 Win mag. And then the 30-06 would be pointless.
Thats my dilema.

[NickSS]

I have both and have extensive experience with both for hunting and target shooting. For target shooting out to 600 yards I choose the 308 as it is easier to make good loads for and is a very accurate cartridge. Beyond 600 yards I choose the 30-06 as it will handle 190 and 200 gr bullets better and at higher velocity than you can get with the 308. For hunting anything in the lower 48 states there is not enough difference between them to make any difference to the animal at all. The 30-06 may have a slight edge if you are talking large bears but then a 30 cal rifle would not be my choice for them anyway.

[oldhickory]

Yes I know it is a hard question, and I am also aware that there are other 30cal cartridges out there, but which is your favorite? Feel free to post why.

Not a hard question at all, .30/06 is my all time favorite rifle cartridge. It just plain works.

[Lloyd Smale]

got to love them both. THe 06 is a bit better large game round but the 308s will usually outshoot about any big game caliber rifle.

[Bass Ackward]

I say that it really depends more on what you want the gun to be. If you want to built a handy, light rifle, then the 308 is going to get you there easier and still have 1/2" more bullet travel than the longer case.

A shorter barrel needs a shorter action to look in proportion, especially if you build a mannlicker.

If you want to build strictly a hunting rifle, then you are in the wrong bore diameter.

[RobS]

30-06 as it has a longer neck making it easier to load cast bullets. Great classic round as well!!!

[1874Sharps]

I do not think you could go wrong with either the 308 or 30-06, but as other posters have pointed out, the 30-06 is more versitile and can do things the 308 cannot do. For many purposes, perhaps the differences are not significant, but I think the 30-06 gets the knod.

Lead Fred: Your avatars are always intriguing. I especially like the "purple Chinese girl" with the rifle!

[blackthorn]

I like both! I chose the 06 mostly due to the fact that years ago my brother in law got a 308 and he made the rest of us sick bragging about how good it was. Now I own several of each and am quite happy with them all.

[LAH]

I'm an '06 man all the way having 6 of these a couple months ago & 4 now. BUT if I was starting from scratch now I'd go with the 308. It's a great round especially for cast............Creeker




Dry Creek Bullet Works
Dry Creek Firewood

[Beekeeper]

When I started out I had an 06.
As I was in the military and had access to 06 brass(which I collected ever time I found it) it was easy to reload and not worry.
Later I had to decide about the 06 brass that got damaged and decided to spend the time and check other rifles that you could size 06 brass to
Now I have 8mm ,7mm,308, and if you really want to go cheap 45 ACP.
All of those cartridges allow me to recycle my brass so I don't think I will ever have to buy brass again.

Best caliber?
undoubtably the 06 is the best all around.
It has been around a long time and is versitale enough to be around when all of the others are long gone..


Jim

[mtnman31]

Way back I bought a Thompson .50cal Hawkins kit at the Navy Exchange down in New London,CT do PX's still sell firearms? I went into the USCG exchange in Portland recently and they dont have any.

Unfortunately, many of the exchanges do not sell firearms anymore. Some of the larger bases still have them. Exchanges operate like any business - they work on profit margins (exchanges say they don't but in reality they do). Many of the exchanges got rid of firearms because of low profits and those that didn't got rid of them because of political correctness and misguided base commanders. A good number of the ones that do still sell them sell for the same price I can get them for out on the local economy. Also, many of the exchanges that still carry firearms have a contract with local dealers to provide them with stock, so your selection and cost is pretty much the same if you are on base or off.

Personally, I am stationed in Kalifornia, so the exchanges have to follow Kalifornia's silly laws. That adds up to a limited selection and added costs. As an example, the local exchange can't/won't sell any handguns with a barrel of less than four inches and they don't carry ANY milsurps.

BTW - .308 is my preference. Simply because that is what I have more experience and comfort with.

[frank505]

30/06 because that is what the 1903 Springfield is chambered in. 311284's with 19 grains of 4759 hit just over the front sight at 50 yards when sighted for 240 Woodleighs 2inches high at 100. I also really like my 308 scout Rem 700 that takes stripper clips and holds 7 rounds down. Either one is a suberb rifle year round wether it is chasing coyotes in winter, bear and wolf protection or hunting.

[JIMinPHX]

The .308 was specifically engineered around a 150-grain jacketed bullet. The .308 runs a higher chamber pressure & outperforms the 06 with that bullet. the 06 has greater case capacity that allows for more slow burning powder & therefore performs better with heavier bullets. Either is a great cartridge for cast boolits. Either will push a .30 cal boolit about as fast as the alloy will want to let you go. With reeeeaaaaly heavy cast boolits, the 06 might let you do something that the .308 wouldn't, but you will need to look long & hard for that example. The .308 will give you the same velocity with the same boolit using a little less powder because of it's reduced case capacity. If you would like to tell us specifically which boolit you want to use, then maybe we can pick the better cartridge, but just asking which is better with no other info given, my answer will have to be - It Depends.

I've even had great luck with the "puny" little 30-30 using cast. I've gotten a 150-grain flat point up over 2300fps with better accuracy than factory ammo. If I can get that done with the .30-30, then either the .308 or the 06 should be a cake walk to get good performance out of. The selection of available .30 cal. boolits, from down around 100 grains to well over 200 grains gives you great versatility in any of these calibers.

[winelover]

Make mine a 308, have 2, bolt and a semi-auto. A 308 will suffice for most North American big game in a smaller package and with less recoil than a aught six. If I were to hunt bears I'd grab the 338 Magnum.

Winelover

[snake jenkins]

Have and like both, but the 06 is my favorite due to being the chambering of the 1903, 1903A3, 1918A2, and the M1 also due to a M70 being my second deer rifle ( the first was a marlin 336 .30-30 at the ripe old age of 13)

[Wireman134]

7.62mmX51mm for service rifle loads hands down. Efficiency on the battle field, 43.5gr 748 for the .308 Win. or 47gr 748 in 30-06. If you really need a heavy bullet, over 170 gr. then yea, the '06. LC 7.62 NATO brass for loading. From http://www.gibrass.com/brass.html

[Cadillo]

...........I bought 100s to surplus LC 06 cases years ago. I have enough to last several lifetimes.


While I love shooting my .308, brass has to be purchased, my Garands keep me stocked with LC brass for the '06's.

Also, during hunting season '06 and .270 brass are left on the range in abundance. I can't rememember ever finding a boxer primed .308 case at the range.

My favorite hunting rifle is my Sako .270 Model 75 Hunter. Very sweet, effective and accurate rifle, and I have about a bushel basket full of now sorted once fired brass that I picked up at the range.

Shooting my .308 is nice, but buying brass is distasteful. :-|

[3006guns]

'06........tradition, dammit!

Of course, I don't own any .308's.....might have something to do with it.

[AZ-Stew]

I picked the 06 because of the availability of surplus brass.

That's one of the reasons I started with the '06. I think that means we're old.


As for those who say the .308 kicks less than the '06, if I'm not mistaken, Newton's Laws are still in effect. A 150 gr bullet fired at 2800 fps from either cartridge in the same weight rifle will surely develop exactly the same recoil. Since some of you guys extol the virtues of the shorter, lighter .308 rifles, the laws of physics dictate that the .308 will actually develop MORE recoil with the same bullet at the same velocity, due to the lighter rifle. Not trying to raise a ruckus here, just pointing out the myth.

Regards,

Stew

[1Shirt]

:coffee:20 years ago I would have said 06 hands down. However, after much experiance with both ctgs over a long period of time, would now go with 308. It looses in the heavy blt catagory only 180 and above. But below 180 and with a savings of pdr, and being cheap must say 308.
1Shirt!:

[dualsport]

I mentioned my 30-06 to .308 chamber adapter. That got me thinking, I need a spare. I really like multi-caliber versatility in a gun, just in case. Anyone know a good source for adapters? I dreamed up the ultimate adaptor, it fires .223 in a '06/.308/7.62x39. Impossible?

[Cadillo]

That's one of the reasons I started with the '06. I think that means we're old.


As for those who say the .308 kicks less than the '06, if I'm not mistaken, Newton's Laws are still in effect. A 150 gr bullet fired at 2800 fps from either cartridge in the same weight rifle will surely develop exactly the same recoil. Since some of you guys extol the virtues of the shorter, lighter .308 rifles, the laws of physics dictate that the .308 will actually develop MORE recoil with the same bullet at the same velocity, due to the lighter rifle. Not trying to raise a ruckus here, just pointing out the myth.

Regards,

Stew


With comparable loads my .308 Garands do kick noticeably less than the other '06 guns. I think it has something to do with the fact that the .308 burns a lot less powder and thus ejects less gas volume out the muzzle. I think that the volume of gas pressure blown out the muzzle contributes some to the level of recoil. More powder equates to more gas volume.

It would be interesting to know whether there has been anything studied or documented in this regard.

[Blacksmith]

For chamber adapters try MCA Sports / ACE Bullet Co. here is the link
http://www.mcace.com/index.htm

Blacksmith

[Gee_Wizz01]

I have both, but the 30-06 is my favorite. I actually own more .308's than 30-06's, but when I go hunting I usually take the 30-06. I have killed more deer, coyotes and hogs with the 30-06. My bolt action 30-06 is the most accurate rifle I own and I can shoot my Garand better than any other rifle with open sights. I shoot more .308 at the range, and more cast bullets in .308. The real advantage of the 30-06 comes with 180 gr and heavier bullets. In reality they are both fine cartridges, and either is an excellent choice.

G

[Char-Gar]

I own five rifles in 30-06 and only four in .308. If you want a short throw bolt gun or a levergun like the Winny 88 than the 308 is what you want. If you want a regular throw bolt gun or a single shot then the 30.06 is the way to go. I like em both with an ever so slight nod to the 30-06.

[Larry Gibson]

For cast bullet shooting I prefer the .308W/7.62 because it is readily available with 12" twist barrels. I prefer the '06 for hunting with J bullets but for all around cast bullet shooting the .308W with a 14" twist Palma barrel is very difficult to beat.

Larry Gibson

[Bullshop junior x2]

30/06

[Heavy lead]

I've only got two 06's right now, but have had plenty others, it's quite boring, but darn it works good. Never had any 308's but have loaded for and shot them and like them very much, IMO they are both very, very good rounds. Oddly I much prefer the either bigger or smaller calibers, and usually hunt with some form of a .338 in a 06 format, Win Mag or the Ultra and am currently working loads for a friends Lapua. Maybe I'll try that Federal (08) cartridge soon.

[woody1]

I didn't vote 'cause like the senior citizen's underwear, it Depends. What do you want it to do or to be? I think I've got 3 30-06's and a couple of 308's. The nod always goes to the '06 UNLESS I'm choosing short, light and/or lever. Regards, Woody

[TCLouis]

I go for 308.

Do like my aught sixes though . . . cast and coated

[dualsport]

Blacksmith, thanks for the link, I'm going to check out their custom adapters.

[AZ-Stew]

With comparable loads my .308 Garands do kick noticeably less than the other '06 guns. I think it has something to do with the fact that the .308 burns a lot less powder and thus ejects less gas volume out the muzzle. I think that the volume of gas pressure blown out the muzzle contributes some to the level of recoil. More powder equates to more gas volume.

It would be interesting to know whether there has been anything studied or documented in this regard.

After I posted, I realized someone was going to bring this up. My response is that, like the new Hornady "Superformance" ammo, with the right powder selection, you can get most of the powder to burn within the barrel, thereby lowering the muzzle pressure. Muzzle pressure is what causes the additional recoil, not simply the mass of powder burned. Read the Hornady press release for a better explanation.

So, add the factor of both the '06 and the .308 having the same muzzle pressure and we're back to the nearly equal recoil factor.

Regards,

Stew

[acoilfld]

My vote is for the .308,
I have a Browning Stainless Hunter in .308 and love it.
It has taken its share of meat, + the bullets always go exactly where I want them to. Both hunting, and at the range.
150 grain bullets at 2900+ fps is possible (published data - Speer) with Reloader 15 - and deadly accurate, at least in my rifle.

On a side note - most of my .308 brass is formed from 30-06 ... Does that mean that I am firing both at the same time ??? :roll:

[Gerry N.]

Bah, yer all nuts!:veryconfu

A 200 - 220 grain boolit at 1600 or so out of my M1922 Krag Carbine will kill anything in N. America about as dead as it can get. A 130 gr. Boolit at 1300 will take care of the plinking and small game. I don't really need much else. Even the most hardcore .308/'06 fan has to look on that loverly, looong .30-40 neck with some envy.

Your mileage may, and very likely will, vary.

Widely.

Gerry N.

[thenaaks]

I mentioned my 30-06 to .308 chamber adapter. That got me thinking, I need a spare. I really like multi-caliber versatility in a gun, just in case. Anyone know a good source for adapters? I dreamed up the ultimate adaptor, it fires .223 in a '06/.308/7.62x39. Impossible?

i think that might be impossible...unless it comes with a barrel adapter.

[WILCO]

My vote is for the .308.......

Ditto for me.

[dualsport]

I do suffer from neck envy, I admit it And I do love rimmed cartridges. But the neck I have to work with on my '06 is ok, maybe not loverly, but ok.

[jdgabbard]

'06, period. I like the .308, but the 06 is more flexible. Fact is that the .308 was designed to be a compact version of the 06. But not all things are created equal.

[Mk42gunner]

I think it depends on the platform the cartridge is fired from more than anything else. If you are trying to make a light rifle; the .308 will allow a short action, saving you a couple of ounces. If you like long actions or heavy bullets; then the .30-06 makes more sense.

I like the .30-06 better -- just because. My last few years in the Navy I would come home during deer season carrying the latest rifle I had built or bought; but if it came down to the last day or so I had my Mauser in .30-06 too.

Like Stew I would like to get an M-14/ M1-A, but funds are too tight right now.

For cast, I like the case capacity of the .308, (and I have about 5 gallons of LC-64 brass), but I also like the longer neck of the .30-06.

I guess the best thing is to have both.


Robert

[Bret4207]

I went with 308 simply because I've used maybe 7 or 8 308's but only a couple '06's. I know the 308 and I like it. Were you to ask 358 or 35 Whelen then I'd go with the Whelen for the same reason.

[-06]

Hmmmmmmm, wonder which one I chose-lol. My truck guns are an M1A and a Remmy 700-both in 51. I keep them in a metal rifle case with an "M" style SKS laying on top for quick grab. My "hobby" is collecting a few '06 pushers. I deer hunt with them and have for over thirty yrs. There is nothing on this continent that my old tried and true '06 will not down. Far as that goes nothing on the planet. Saw a pic of an elephant dropped by an M-16 so it can be done. Some are killed by arrows but IMO they(hunters) don't have a longevity problem-lol. There was a "real mall ninga" on another site that said the '06 was not a true 1,000 yard weapon. I told him he just did not want to find out the hard way. Good old trustworthy round and I like them. My son shoots with his sniper buds and runs down the '06 as not having a high Ballistic Coefficient. I just shrug and load my .50 round while he is loading his $2 round and I hit within an inch of his holes. Just tears him a "new one"--lol.

[fatnhappy]

I thought long and hard about this one. I still have to say .30-06. I love the .308 but it really isn't the vehicle an 06 is when loading 200 grain partitions. I might never have need for 200 grain partitions again so the argument is kinda of moot, but the .30-06 does have a bit more uumph.

[nighthunter]

Nearly 50 years ago a 30-06 was the first centerfire rifle I ever fired. I was about 10 years old. The rifle was an as issued 03-A3 Springfield. That steel butt plate just about tore my shoulder off and lightning flashed in my head. My uncle laughed and laughed and said to my dad, " I bet he doesn't want to shoot it again. ". I stuck out my chin and asked for another shell. 30-06 has been my favorite cartridge ever since. I have many other calibers and I use them all but nothing will ever take the place of the 30-06 with me. The .308 is a nearly identical intended replacement to the 30-06. The .308 does not lack in power or performance. My Savage model 12 F/TR in .308 will shoot 1/2 inch groups at 200 yards nearly any day of the week. My 30-06 just happens to be the rifle with the best and most fond memories. Apples to apples.

God bless,
Nighthunter

[Bullshop Junior]

Thats almost like asking me what I mine better - Ding Dongs, or HO HOs..........

I want both!

[Freischütz]

I use the 30/06 - better performance with heavy bullets

[hamour]

I voted for the 30-06 but for a penny I would vote for the .308!

I love them both.

[MT Gianni]

I voted 30-06 but my best loved Rifle is 308 so we are really talking apples and apples to me.

[crabo]

So, does anyone ever do a .308 AI? I've never heard of one.

[GabbyM]

So, does anyone ever do a .308 AI? I've never heard of one.

Never seen a 308 AI rifle but have seen the reamers listed. Not much their to gain in case taper like in 06.

Shooting buddy has a 30-06 AI. Great improvement IMO. He gets 3,000 fps with 180 grain bullets. Not sure of the barrel length. With a 24 or 26" barrel the 30-06 AI doesn't give up enough to notice to the 300 win mag and the mag needs 20 grains more powder to do it.

[felix]

The name of the game is "What projectile do you want to shoot, and how fast?" Pick the case size and its fuel to do the job, not more, not less. Then pick out the barrel, action, and stock in that order. If nothing fits, then go full custom with each element to make the system fit into a solid machine. Everything else would be a compromise, making another gun and therefore further expense mandatory to meet specs. ... felix

[Jayhem]

From a hunting point of view, you cannot beat the all around versatility of the 30-06.

Loaded light with 125 grain bullets it's a varmit rifle

Loaded with 150 grain BT SPTs it's a 300+ yard white tail load (much better tragectory than .308 loadings)

Loaded with 170-180 grain bullets it can take Elk, Moose, bear, etc.

All of this in a cartridge that is easy to reload with unlimited supplies of brass for reloading available cheap.

If I could only have one rifle for hunting it would be the 30-06.

[c3d4b2]

As for those who say the .308 kicks less than the '06, if I'm not mistaken, Newton's Laws are still in effect. A 150 gr bullet fired at 2800 fps from either cartridge in the same weight rifle will surely develop exactly the same recoil.

The recoil claim that the 308 produced less recoil bothered me. I first attributed it to different guns until I shot a 308 Garand along side a 30-06 Garand. I did some research and found that the weight of the powder charge and the powder velocity needs to be included in the recoil calculations.

One calculation of the recoil velocity is

(bullet weight X bullet velocity) + (powder weight X powder velocity)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------- = Vel
7000 X weight of the gun

(7000 grains = 1 pound)

[Slow Elk 45/70]

:redneck:Seems you are getting a lot of answers that are keyed on J-condom bullets, yes the 06 is more versitle with heavy boolits in cast because of the case neck length...that said, I don't shoot cast in M1A1...I do in my other 308's, but I have no use for 200+gr boolits in this caliber because I hunt with 30/30, 44mag, 45/70.......:cbpour:

[.357]

I picked .308 based on one fact I have tiny little t-rex arms and i like the short throw.

[Boerrancher]

I didn't see this covered but if it was and I missed it, I'm sorry for the repete. I have both the 06.and the 308 in many configurations I like them both, but if I had to choose between the two it would be the 06 for all of the reasons already stated plus a few more. Being a handloader, it is easier to turn 270, 280, 25'-06,and a few other 06 based cartridges back to 30-06 than it is to make them 308. Next. in a pinch you can chamber and fire 308's, oft times with quite accurate results out of a gad tight 30-06.

ßest wishes from the Boer Ranch,

joe

[JesterGrin_1]

I thought of the .308 and 30-06 difference since I was a youngin. But always felt if you have a 30-06 why have a .308 lol. The debate between the two has gone on forever as far as accuracy and in this department the .308 does have more wins in its belt than the 30-06. But for most of us these are hunting weapons. So with the 30-06 as said can be loaded for a very wide range of bullet weights both in jacket and cast and I feel that it is one of the most widely used and carried cartridges one can find. So I still feel that people that hunt should at least have one 30-06 in there stash.

But the same thing as mentioned goes on between the .358 Winchester which is based on the .308 cartridge and the 35 Whelen which is based on the 30-06 cartridge. Many cartridges have been designed for there nitch use in both the 308 and the 30-06 so really in the end you can not really go wrong with either cartridge depending on what you plan to hunt with it. :)

As with everything else in this world it is not really what everyone else thinks but more of how a person decides for themselves there own personal use of any caliber or firearm

[Duckhunter]

"The 'o6 has more flexability in loading , the smaller 308 ,while a fine cartridge seems to run out of case cap with some of the slower powders I have used. Both are more than accurate enough for my uses and my 308 is prolly my favorite rifle, but I started with the '06 and really like to load for it. my.02
John "

+1 Duckhunter

[Linstrum]

I prefer the .30-06 because it has so much more latitude than the .308 Win. I don't always shoot full house loads in my .30-06 bolt gun, in fact most of my loads are down around .30-30 performance. But the option is there to load up when I want or need it. I have a .308 Win chamber adapter I use in my .30-06 bolt gun for when I want to shoot .308 Wins.

I consider the .30-06 to be the smallest member of the .30 caliber magnum family. The .308 Win is not, but it is still a very powerful cartridge.

This is a bit of an arbitrary distinction, but I based my definition of the .30-06 being a magnum cartridge on its power now being equal to the original .30 Holland & Holland Magnum cartridge. The dramatic increase in power is from the use of modern powders.

The .300 Savage now has about the same power as the original .30-06 did in 1906! Savage developed that cartridge as a replacement for the .30-06 and the .308 Win was based on Savage's work back in the 1930s.

After WW2 the U.S. Military realized that a smaller cartridge could replace the .30-06 and still provide the same velocity with the same weight bullet as the original specifications called for. So the 7.62 NATO and .308 Win were born, using Savage's data as a starting point. A shorter cartridge had the advantage of having a lower bolt velocity while still provide the same rate of fire in semi-auto and full auto weapons. A lower bolt velocity causes less wear and is less subject to jamming problems.

I have one rifle that shoots the .308 Win cartridge and five that shoot the .30-06.


rl727

[testhop]

i would take the 06 as i can get more o6s cases than 308s at hunter sight in. the 308 is just the little
brother of the 06 and as long as it will shoot min. of deer .i am happy (1.5 inchs
i dont keep rifles that dont shoot a good group waist of time.

[Paul B]

I voted for the .308 because I thought the question pertained to CAST BOOLITS. Well, as the thread has evolved to the "J" word bullets, I still would pick the .308 over the 30-06. Oh my is this guy daft? Is he bereft of all reason? Not hardly How many times have you heard or read that no animal will notice 100 FPS difference when the bullet that does him in strikes? Probably if you got a dollar for all those times you could buy another nice rifle.
I went to the .308 back in 1973 when I lived in a small rural town in Nevada. At the time, I was a three pack a day smoker and the area I hunted kept the deer up at the 8,000 foot MSL level and higher. The roughly 9+ pound 1903A3 butcher job of a 30-06 I was packing damn near killed me. I just could not ingest enough oxygen to fuel my body. (FWIW, I quit cold turkey in 1975 and haven't smoked since.) I had to find a lighter rifle. I hit the local Reliable Ace hardware one day and they had a Remington 660 (one ugly gun) in .308 at a decent price (one I could afford) and bought it and a couple boxes of 150 gr. ammo. With the scope it weighed at least two pounds less than the 03A3. darn thing was loud as hell with that 20" barrel but it was accurate. I took a nice Mule Deer at 427 paces with that rifle and my disdain for the .308 went away. Prior to that day, I felt the .308 was a 30-06 wannabe.

Now I get controversial as hell. Like everyone else, I kept hearing that the .308 won't do heavier bullets well like from 180 gr. on up. Horse pucky, baloney and flat out BS. Now I have to go apples to oranges here because while some companies still load 220 gr. bullets in the 30-06, no company has ever loaded that weight bullet in the .308. Finding data for a bullet that heavy ain't easy, but I got lucky. Now if I could only find a box of anybody's 30-06 with 220 gr. bullets to run over a chronograph to finish my experiments I could be really happy. As I can't, at least so far, I'll post what I have done and after that, let the flames begin.
Advertised data for the 30-06 says that the 220 gr. bullet has a velocity of 2400 FPS. Most factory ammo I've run over chronographs have not come up to advertised speeds. With that said, I'll assume that the advertised speed is correct, at least for purpose of argument.
Using W-760 powder, I have run 220 gr. Sierra round nose 30 caliber bullets to a chronographed 2310 FPS, exactly 90 FPS slower than the advertised velocity of that weight bullet from the 30-06. WOW! A whole 90 FPS slower, big whoopie! Now I will admit that with judicious handloading one can get more velocity from the 30-06 but the point is the .308 isn't exactly the slouch every says it is with heavy bullets.
The loads were shot from a Winchester M70 with 22" factory barrel. Winchester brass and primer. pressure was low enough that I think I might be able to add at least one more grain of powder. The same charge with the 220 gr. Hornady round nose was only 10 FPS slower at 2300 FPS.
The same loads from a Ruger 77 RSI with 18.5" barrel maxed out at 2250 FPS with both bullets.
back in the day (early 1900's) the 30-40 Krag was considered a better elk rifle than the new fangled 30-06 because the bullets didn't blow up on game and gave better penetration. Krag velocity at the time was about 2000FPS.
Data is s follows:
Start load is 42.0 gr. W-760 for 2177 FPS at 42,000 C.U.P.
Maximum load is 44.0 gr. W-760 for 2295 FPS (book figure) at 46,900 C.U.P.
I don't ask anyone to take my word on the above. All I will say is I did the experimentation, more for my own curiosity than anything else. Accuracy from the Winchester ran from .375" to .50". The Ruger is very fussy about what runs through it's barrel but 2" was about the norm for that gun. That rifle is really a "one trick pony" and the only load is shoots well only does 1.25". I never have gotten anything better from that one. Still, it is one of my favorites for hunting and has been a very lucky rifle when it comes to game.
Paul B.

[LAH]

Excellent post Paul................Creeker



Dry Creek Bullet Works
Dry Creek Firewood

[smkummer]

Like them both but 308 is current military so guns we don't even know about yet will be available in this caliber. Maybe the days of buying military surplus 308 ammo and components for cheap will return. The surplus 30-06 is getting very hard to come by and will be even harder in the future.

[9.3X62AL]

Paul--

VERY interesting post, and I think you are the first person I've read or heard about that ran 220 grainers in a 308. You used my favorite 30-06 J-word powder to do it, too. :)

I voted 30-06, but it isn't a passionate, my-way-or-the-highway opinion. I've had GREAT performance out of both calibers, and for 95% of my critter-gittin', either one serves well. No 308s on site right now, but who knows what the future holds?

[reddhawkk]

Since I love shootilng my Garrand I'll have to go with the 30-06.

[alg3205]

They are both great. I have used the 308 in both semi auto (M-14 NM) and bolt guns, great accuracy. My 03 and M-1 are just fun to shot.

[LAH]

Since I love shootilng my Garrand I'll have to go with the 30-06.


Welcome to the board reddhawkk.....................Creeker

[Linstrum]

smkummer has a good point! In favor of the .308 over .30-06 is the availability of brass, which has been mentioned in several other threads over the years. Although it will be a long time before .30-06 brass becomes as scarce as something like the Shooting Times Westerner series, it will be even longer until the 7.62 NATO becomes scarce.


rl733

[Frozen Chosen]

I like the '06- good enough for two world wars, and can take out anything in North Am short of a Griz.
Have to agree with Charlie Sometimes on this one. But I"ve seen quite a few grizz and even buffalo tipped over with the 06. Hand loads for an 06 can just about cover any other hunting caliber and it all boils down to shot placement. I've seen disabled buffalo killed with a 22 mag.
If you could only have one gun, my choice is an 06.

[Adam10mm]

I like the .308 over the .30-06. Pound for pound you can't get better than that. With the additional recoil and very slim advantage on heaviest game with heavy for caliber bullets that the .30-06 has, it isn't worth the trade off for me. 100-150fps to me is only burning more powder for a pissing match because the dead animal won't care what they were killed with.