First outting with the K31 and cast

[Buckshot]

http://www.fototime.com/E75D08380B248DA/standard.jpg

.............I really didn't have any suitable slugs cast up for this rifle. I did have about 20 pounds of the Fat 30 Loverin group buy, done back in 2008, BELOW: cast up so they got the nod.
http://www.fototime.com/7B5E80F99FF60E7/standard.jpg

These were cast at 14 BHN with an OD just shy of .316" and weighing 181grs. With Lube and GC they weighed about 185grs. They were visually inspected while lube-sizing to .314" in the Lyman press, where a Hornady GC and Carnauba Red was applied. After that they were sent up through a Lee .309" size die.

http://www.fototime.com/B3A8D9F59EC255E/standard.jpg

They were seated to an OAL of 2.888" and got a mild roll crimp. At this length the slug was engraved almost to the case mouth. This placed the GC right at the neck/shoulder junction. The roll crimp was there to keep the slug from being pushed further into the case, which experimenting without the crimp proved would definately happen. The nose of the as cast slug is .309", the top band is .312" and the three following bands are .314". The balance go .316" so the entire boolit was effectively sized to .309".

All the loads shown were loaded into and stripped from the magazine. They all fed without a problem. There was the occasional round requiring an extra little 'thump' to the bolt handle. The loads of:

Surplus SR4759, H4198 and, Surplus IMR4475 all had a dacron filler. This was also the first firing for this brass. Primers were Winchester LR primers. There were no extraction-ejection problems. All groups were 10 rounds except for the H4198 load which was 9 rounds. A ceasefire was called and when the case was extracted the boolit remained behind :-) After the line was called hot the case was rechambered and the slug fired off into the berm. These were all fired at 50 yards.

Groups measured:

14.0 Unique, 1.28"
18.0 2400, 2.69" it REALLY didn't like this one:mrgreen:
20.0 Surplus SR4759, 1.91"
24.0 H4198, 1.45
30.0 Surplus IMR4475, 1.97"

Normally I'm fine with 50 yard groups of 5 rounds of about an inch and a quarter or less, with iron sights and an issue trigger. This is considering the lack of refinement spent in the reloading (visually inspected slugs, thrown charges, etc). However for this rifle's first outing with cast (and a really inappropriate boolit) plus brand new brass I really wasn't disappointed overall. I WAS a bit surprised with the load of 2400 however. I look forward to shooting the rifle again with a more suitable boolit, like maybe a 160gr Lee.

...............Buckshot

[dromia]

Interesting essay there Rick with good results. :D

You've got to love Loverins.

Unique is well named.

[Calamity Jake]

My K31 likes 311291 and 18.5 of Blue Dot, no filler.
I have a 2 cav mold that cast small on the nose(.298) which is still to bit big for my K31
so it is deep seated(front drive band just inside the case mouth) and sized @ .309. It shoots about like your 2400 load at 100 yards.

As you probably noticed, all your loads shot to the right, that's the K31 with low volosity loads.
I have the NOE fat 30 loverin and the Lee 312-155 group buy, haven't tried them yet.

[1874Sharps]

Buckshot,

Congratulations on your quick success with the K31!

[bradh]

Rick your surplus SR4759, is that the clone powder Jeff Barlett was selling about a year or so ago?

[Maven]

Rick, Pretty impressive shooting for your 1st K-31 range session! As you've no doubt noticed, most CB's, with the exception of the Lee 113gr. "soupcan," need to be seated deeply into the case to allow chambering and the bolt to go into battery. They also [may] require a sharp rap on the bolt handle with the heel of your hand or a plastic hammer. Smokemjoe (Joe Wiest aka "the mad machinist") has a solution that's right up your alley: A nose first reducing die that's just like Lyman's lube (H & I) dies, but without holes for lubing. It simply bumps the noses of slightly oversized CB's down enough so that you can easily chamber them and, seat them so that their bases aren't "in the boiler room." You'll need to experiment with various CB designs and weights before you settle on the nose diameter which will fit your rifle best, but that's fun rather than burdensome. Once that's out of the way, you can easily machine the die.

By weigh of example, Ly. #311291 sized to .309" shoots very well in both of my K-31's, but I have to seat it slightly below the crimp groove to allow easy chambering. With Smokemjoe's die, I can taper (reduce) the nose and even the 1st driving band if I choose, which then allows me to seat them out (longer) by ~1/8" (~2.90" OAL). I no longer have to rap the bolt to close it and accuracy is still excellent.

Loads: I've had good luck with 22grs. of 5744, 20.5grs. WC 820 (AA #9 burn rate), and 46-48grs. WC 860 with mag primers and most CB's heavier than 160grs. Btw, I'd suggest dropping the charge of H 4198 to 21 or 22grs. Lastly, if you still have the Lee soupcan mold, give it a try with ~16grs. WC 820 or 16 - 17grs. 4198. I think you'll be thrilled with the result!

[Buckshot]

Rick your surplus SR4759, is that the clone powder Jeff Barlett was selling about a year or so ago?

............This powder was purchased from Bartlett, but was bought in May of 2000.

...........Paul, "Smokemjoe (Joe Wiest aka "the mad machinist") has a solution that's right up your alley: A nose first reducing die that's just like Lyman's lube (H & I) dies, but without holes for lubing."

Great minds and all :-) I've also made and sold those for the past few years. Seemed the simplist way to 'Gitterdone'. But for this initial trial I wasn't going to expend the effort. Also, thanks guys for the load suggestions.

...............Buckshot

[Bret4207]

Those sure are sweet rifles! I just wish I could get the rear sling attachment off mine easier. That metal clip manages to catch my face every time but I like it for carrying. Hate to mess with it but a QD stud may find it's way onto that stock.

Good shooting Bucksnort, well done as usual!

[1874Sharps]

Bret,

I do not like the rear sling arrangement either. In fact, I took the sling off because of the very thing you mention. I missed it when I got into the field last November while deer hunting.

[primersp]

hello
i have a problem with a 150-sp rcbs ,shoot fine at 100m but the bullet is 308/307 cast with the gas-check no leading but the bullet have no neck tension ,it difficult to find a crimp less than buggle the brass.
i load with hand no by magazine
i have no problem with the others bullets sized to 309 311466 or 311410.
the rifle due the legislation is reamed in 30-284 but often it was made in large série and is impossible to chamber a cartridge who was fire by an other weapon.
i made a neck sizing with a 30 hornady neck die .
ANDRE.

[jh45gun]

Try 20 grains of 2400

[runfiverun]

sounds like you need to look at your expander ball andre.
i'd bet your brass is thinner on your nrcks and it just isn't being sized down enough then being opened again without enough meat to stay squeezed down.
it's either that or your brass needs to be annealed as it's lost it's spring.

[primersp]

i have try that ,polish a little the 2 expanders the lee and hornady , i anneal the brass
for 4or 5 shoot ,i wait the mould made by NOE.
a bullet not firm retained is a bit dangerous
thanks RUNFIVERUN

[quasi]

it is nice to see people using 10 shot groups for testing.

[bkbville]

Bret,

I do not like the rear sling arrangement either. In fact, I took the sling off because of the very thing you mention. I missed it when I got into the field last November while deer hunting.

I use a 1-1/4" USGI sling - fits nicely on the K31. Use it's clip on the K's clip.

[Gun Junkie]

Way to go Buckshot! Sounds like a lot of trouble but can't argue with the results. Love my K31 and have scooted my front sight right to make up for some of the tendency to shoot right with cast. Mine still shoots some right and I'm concerned about moving it anymore. But the angled dovetail is really neat.

Bret4207 - on my K31 I took a standard US web sling and bent back the sheet metal keeper until I could get it in and out of the sling keeper recess at the back of the rifle.

[FAsmus]

Buckshot;

It is good to see another fellow like yourself getting into the K31. Nice outfits as we all know by now.

I got a K31 up at the last Quigley match and I've done some shootng with it. I even set down the sequence here over the summer of 2009 as things progressed.

By now, I have the "magic" bullet and load for the rifle (so far as I'm concerned) for pretty much anything I wish to do with the rifle.

As other members have mentioned the short throat and sharp origin of rifling is unique to the Swiss, making it all-together too easy to wind up with bullet bases seated below the beginning of the neck's taper.

I overcame this with RCBS 30-165-SIL as-cast at 0.3085 - which is ideal insofar as diameter, length of body and nose such that it just fits everything perfectly - even to over all length for the magazine & feeding. The loads prints as close as I can hold with older eyes - 5x1.600 @ 100yards pretty much all day long.

My load is 29 grains "Varget" and my course of fire is from 350 yards (the offhand) on out to 834 yards (the Big Square) from the cross-stick rest in a ten-target sequence.

I modified the rear sight by welding on a piece of a Lyman 66 receiver sight insead of the notch and by drill & tapping the leaf for 4-48 to control elevation with a cap screw more precisly than the course method the Swiss found adiquate.

Good shooting,
Forrest

[Buckshot]

............Thanks Forest. I have a few moulds which will prove much more suitable I'm sure, and will eventually find some time to cast some up to try.

..............Buckshot

[beemer]

I have used the Lee 312-155-2R sized to .309 with good results. I seat it to 2.775, the base of the check is just barely below the neck. I mostly use around 20-22 grs. of IMR 4198 and a tuft of dacron, but RL-7 and A5744 seems to work just as well with appropriate loads.

Any time I can stay under 2" at 100 yds for 5 shots I am happy but my records show some at 1 1/2 to 1 3/4. My rifle has a St. Marie clamp on mount and an old Weaver 3X9 so that helps. I have reached the age that I can use the old eyes excuse and get away with it or is that the age where you don't care if you get away with it or not.

I have not worked a lot with the K31 and need to do more.

What is it that makes the K31 shoot to the right, I have had other rifles do this but the K31 seems to be the worst offender.

Dave

[45 2.1]

Besides the St. Marie scope mounts, there are various diopter sights and fineadjusters available for the K-31s. Lots of nice accessories also.

[Nora]

Rick.... was there a question to be had here or are you just showing off again?:kidding: Once again nice work with the post. I've got a K-31 that I haven't as of yet had the privilege of shooting cast with yet. Perhaps mid summer I'll be able to sneak another rifle caliber into the loading line up. Please keep us informed as to your refinements. :p

Nora

[Buckshot]

Rick.... was there a question to be had here or are you just showing off again?:kidding: Once again nice work with the post. I've got a K-31 that I haven't as of yet had the privilege of shooting cast with yet. Perhaps mid summer I'll be able to sneak another rifle caliber into the loading line up. Please keep us informed as to your refinements. :p

Nora

...........That's not very shiney showing off :grin: I've got several old milsurps with somewhat raggedy barrels that will do a whole let better at 50 yards. However, I figured I threw enough alibi's in there that the crowd might have some pity and wouldn't totally crucify me, HA!

As to sizing those .316" Loverins down to .309" goes, I've sized the 165gr Lyman 323470 slug down from .323" (as cast @ .325") to .314" for use in an Argentine with a .304" bore. It shot a bunch better, and that was 0.011" total size reduction.

.............Buckshot

[the other DWS]

as posted on the other 7.5 thread, I recently acquired a 7.5 schuetzen to use as an offhand rifle in the ASSRA 200 yard matches. I'm looking for info/data for loading it.

I note that you guys did a group buy in 2008 of a "Fat 30 Loverin" mould. If anyone has a spare/used one to sell I'd be VERY interested. I got a couple of the 6.5s you all did back in the "ShootersTalk" forum days.

dwstiles at hotmail dot com

[excess650]

Those sure are sweet rifles! I just wish I could get the rear sling attachment off mine easier. That metal clip manages to catch my face every time but I like it for carrying. Hate to mess with it but a QD stud may find it's way onto that stock.

Good shooting Bucksnort, well done as usual!

The simple soution is to remove the metal clip and just thread the sling through the fixture in the stock.