Tried some KAL paper patch

[Don McDowell]

Borrowed the mold from Rick Mulhern. Set it to cast 480 grs from 20-1. Wrapped them in tracing paper .9 inch wide patches,.451 final dia, on top of 70 grs goex cartridge, .030 fiber wad 1/8th inch lube felt wad and .030 fiber wad. WW cases and CCI large rifle primer. Had to drop the blow tube and wipe , but after the wiping routine got polished the horizontal stringing stopped, and we ended up with the nice cluster to the left of the bull. Range was 270 yds.
http://forums.handloads.com/uploads/Ranch13/2010-01-12_130902_Kal_pp.jpg

Ol buttugly might sort of like these need to roll some more up for some further testing.

[powderburnerr]

aint it fun when it works.... how do you like the mould ,,,
I like that I can point the handles in the air and open the mould and the bullet falls out,...Dean

[1874Sharps]

Don,

Which mold did you use?

[Don McDowell]

Dean its sure a smooth finish on the the important parts of it.. It does once in awhile leak a bit around one side of the base , so there's the occasional "fin" but its not big and can be scraped off with the thumb nail.

1874 right off the top of my head I couldn't tell you what mold it is. I do recall the box says it casts to 520 grs. It's also got enough of a meplat it could possibly strike like thors hammer if used as a hunting bullet.

[montana_charlie]

.451 final dia, on top of 70 grs goex cartridge, .030 fiber wad 1/8th inch lube felt wad and .030 fiber wad.

Had to drop the blow tube and wipe ,
Since you had to resort to wiping in the end, does that make you think you might dump the lubed felt wad?

Only asking because I'm juggling the same question right now, myself.
CM

[Don McDowell]

Right now no I have no plans of dumping the lubed wad. It kept the fouling soft and soft fouling is easier to clean than hard. So to keep that type soft fouling , a lube cookie would be needed, and I've never been much of a fan of those.

[Don McDowell]

Ok the mold is .441, 45 3xt 200. Forgot I had this picture bullet and loaded round.
http://forums.handloads.com/uploads/Ranch13/2010-01-13_163759_Kal_ppatch.jpg

[Don McDowell]

Just for kicks grins and more trigger time . I do have a batch loaded up without the lubed felt wad.
Now just need to get a chance to put them on target and see what happens.
Also loaded a batch for the long chambered CIJ sharps.

[Red River Rick]

.. It does once in awhile leak a bit around one side of the base , so there's the occasional "fin" but its not big and can be scraped off with the thumb nail.

Don:

That "Finning" problem may, probably is, attributed to "Over" tightening the small #6 x32 set screw that locks the adjustable base into the desired position.

Problem is, the "adjustable" base gets pushed 'away" from the cavity it's attached to. Causing the "Finning", at the base.

I've had moulds returned to me, because of this, not knowing what the real problem was. Some of the samples returned to me where actually "tapered", being larger at the base by as much as 0.005" and having an oblong shape.

The adjustable base on that -45-3xT-200 mould has a 5/16" NF thread on it. Just pick up a hex nut and screw on. Us it as a"Jamb" nut.

I hope this rectifies the problem.
:drinks:

RRR

[Don McDowell]

Ok thanks Rick I have a good selection of 5/16ths nuts hanging around I'll try that and see what happens. I thought the problem may have been related to lead temp, but that set screw off setting the base plug makes sense as well. It's just a whisper thin thing.
Have you had anybody use this bullet at 1000 yds yet?

[Lead pot]

Hey Don, If your coming to Alliance were going to have to give them a try so bring enough :smile:

Kurt

[Don McDowell]

:bigsmyl2: Well we'll see. I was going to testdrive this last bunch at Alliance this coming Sunday, but with gas screaming up again, think I'll save the money for another one of Bernies moulds, and the miles on the truck for the end of the month when it really matters.[smilie=s:
But you sure need to double up on how many 44's you bring.[smilie=w:[smilie=s:

[Lead pot]

Two .44-90 rifles and 400 loaded rounds and another 600 cast bullets enough??:bigsmyl2:

[Don McDowell]

:veryconfu Might be enough to get me and Dick thru the weekend, but you'll have to run home and get some more before we hit the next ones.:bigsmyl2:

Looking forwards to seeing you guys in a couple three weeks.[smilie=s:

[Lead pot]

I have the new camper all set up for loading and a good supply of goodies needed for the whole summers shooting.

Kurt

[Don McDowell]

Hehehe, do you have to have the DOT placards, and hazmat numbers on it?

[Lead pot]

:redneck:I have all the endorsements on my CDL[smilie=f:[smilie=1:

[Don McDowell]

Whatcher copilot/spotter think about all that, did she get equal footing on the front half of the trailer?

[Lead pot]

She has control of the whole wagon!!!!!!!! Except when I drag it around :grin:

[Don McDowell]

Yeh but we'll never get them to admit that.......

[Red River Rick]

............. Have you had anybody use this bullet at 1000 yds yet?

Don:

Not the 3xT-200 style. The only person that has reported back to me with 1000 yd shooting results is Mr. Mulhern. But, he was not using the "Tangental" ogive style.

I think right now "Hush" is the word! Nobody's saying much, regarding test result with the new "Eliptical" designs I've cut. There's a few "Eliptical" moulds out there, but no one's posting any feedback???? :?:???:

The next few month's will definately shed some results...................only time will tell.

Regards.
:drinks:

RRR

[Don McDowell]

Welllll, guess I'll load a handful up to take along to Alliance at the end this month and see if we can get em to smack the long stuff there....

[Red River Rick]

Please Do! We'll never know until someone gives them a whirl!

GOOD LUCK!

RRR

[Lead pot]

I been shooting a .44 PP bullet from the KAL mould all winter. I don't remember when I got it for sure but it has been many 100ds and so far it has been doing good since I got the alloy temper worked out. With the long radius of the ogive and the hard push the .44-90 BN gives this bullet it took a little work to get the alloy right to keep the nose straight and it has finally eliminated the occasional dirt diggers and it has proven to be a very good bullet so far at the short 200 yard range I been working with.
I don't know yet what that bullet will do past 200 yards but I'm about to find out in a few weeks when I get out to Alliance where I will be able to test it at a 1000 target.
With the smaller diameter of the .44 (.331) it is a little harder to hold the nose slump than it would be with a .45 or .50 caliber.
There is nothing wrong with the cosmetics with this bullet cast with a CNC lathe cut mould but it is a little tempermental with the alloy temperature. It does not like the alloy to hot because of its generous venting system.

Good work Rick!!

http://i704.photobucket.com/albums/ww43/Kurtalt/IMG_0257.jpg

[RMulhern]

Don

You can STOP THE FINNING by putting on your BIG EYES....and aligning the base of the bullet with a vent line! I did this after my first castings with this bullet.....and that solved the problem....NO MORE FINS!!

Also....from the looks of your photo.....you're loading these bullets so deeply into the case it appears that you're loading to 'groove' instead of bore diameter...right??

I have shot this bullet at 1000 and even with that meplat....it did quite well!:drinks:

[Don McDowell]

Rick no that bullet is patched to bore or just a tad under. It's seated that deep because that's where it met the wads and powder.
Would either have to load more powder or add more wads to seat it out any further.

[RMulhern]

Rick no that bullet is patched to bore or just a tad under. It's seated that deep because that's where it met the wads and powder.
Would either have to load more powder or add more wads to seat it out any further.

Don

My experience has shown that multiple wads will not hurt accuracy and it's my belief that unless one has a PP designed chamber that your accuracy will be best by having the bullet seated out as far as possible to assimilate breech seating. That configuration helps to keep the **** end of the bullet from being 'blown out' before it's fully into the bore.

:cbpour::bigsmyl2:

[Don McDowell]

Rick, it's interesting when you get to digging into the old catalogs from Sharps,Remington etc, and their reloading instructions.
Sharps says to use a card wad between the powder and the bullet on target loads, and to use a wad and a lube cooky for hunting rounds. I'm thinking the lube cooky serves several purposes, to water proof the cartridge somewhat,the taciness of the lube cooky would also serve to help hold the bullet in place (remember at that time resizing dies weren't available) and to provide some lubrication to keep fouling soft for successive shots without wiping.
Remington said to use a paper disc, and that for hunting loads the bullet should be wiped with sperm oil and the excess wiped off with a rag to provide lubrication to the patch.
In both examples the bullet would be seated as deep as the powder follower tool would push it down. So now the trick would be to find out just what were the deminstions of the powder follower tools.

[RMulhern]

Don

Your statements pull to the surface another question to whit:

ARE WE SMARTER THAN THE OLD TIMERS??

Ya know....they didn't have the communications ability that we have today and they didn't have time enough to sit around debating all the stuff we do! The old timers on the plains were busy as hell killing buffs (and anything else that got in their way) and just trying to stay alive was a 24 hour a day endeavor!! We know from a few that left data behind that there were some 'gun nuts' out there during their day but on an average my guess is that most knew how to load/cast/and shoot without all the extra jargon that goes along in today's world!! One thing for certain.....even taking into consideration that a whole helluva lot of buffs may have died from disease.....the old boys shot well enough to finish off the rest!!:!:;)

[Don McDowell]

Rick I've been trying to figure some of this out. The one old guy that I first learned a little about paper patching from told me they always used a lubed felt wad under the bullet. So that's what I've always done. But now I read this stuff about how target loads not using the felt or grease cooky's and I can't help but wonder Why?

[montana_charlie]

I'm no historian, but I think I remember reading that the Irish were mad at the Americans for wiping between shots...or maybe it was the other way around.
Anyway, target shooters didn't need fast follow-up shots, and I think that's what the cookies and lubed wads were supposed to provide.
CM

[Don McDowell]

It was the Brits that were ticced about wiping between shots, but that only lasted for as long as they shot the muzzleloaders,mostly because they didn't want to admit that when they seated the bullet the bore was wiped. When they moved to cartridge guns it quieted down some.
I also think that the lubed felt wad helps to keep fouling soft, soft fouling wipes out easier than harder/drier fouling.

[wonderwolf]

Pardon the ignorance on my end but I'm not seeing a 3xTx200 style, only the 2.5xT-200

Also rick some guys on another forum (Shiloh) are talking about an Elliptical bullet mold they got from you but I'm not seeing anything on your site about that either? or is that just the Gibbs?

[Red River Rick]

Wonderwolf:

Your eyes aren't playing any tricks, the 3-xT's are not listed any more, nor are they available.

Are you refering to the "Elliptical" thread posted by Dan Theodore on the Shiloh forum:http://shilohrifle.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=15594&sid=0ca0081ebfda5b58557f82bffab85332

If so, this new design is not mentioned on my site.

The new "Elliptical" design has been in the works for a while now, and I've only machined a few proto-type moulds. Other than the info posted by Mr. Mulhern, Lead Pot (Kurt) and Dan Theodore. you'll be hard pressed to find any more info, unless someone else has had a mould cut by PJ or one of the other mould makers that are available.

Extensive long-range testing (1000 yards) has shown some very promising results. I know that Mr Mulhern and Dan Theodore are both very impressed with this new bullet design.

And No, the "TGBS" (Tapered Gibbs) design is not the same as the "Elliptical".

:drinks:
RRR

[Lead pot]

Rick.

I will do a lot of shooting using the bullet from your elliptical mould starting later this week.
I will start at the Q but I will not use the bullet for the final shoot till I get a chance to work it out. I'm taking 600 with me and it will get tested out to 1200 yards.
I didn't get a chance to shoot it at the Alliance shoot time just did not work out. For the 20 rounds I shot at the 1K it looked good with about 8 points less elevation over the postell bullet. The conditions where not the best for any accuracy work.

I still would like you to make a sprue plate with a .100" or 2.5mm hole for that mould when you get a chance.

Kurt

[Lead pot]

OK.

I have had a chance to use the bullet from the KAL mould, the bullet on the right.

http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL1337/6360369/22902670/385622433.jpg

The right bullet was shot at the 600 yard target at the Quigley on a day the wind Gods were not in a good mood[smilie=f: at 20 to 24 MPH gusting up to 61 MPH once on the anemometer so I did all of the shooting at the 600 yard target that I could see the best.
I shot several different loads using the .44-90 BN Shiloh and judging the size of the 8 shot groups that hung at 7 O-Clock just on the edge of the white spot, I would guess not being able to get down range to measure it, 1/2 the diameter of the white about 10" maybe a little less.
I shot four groups like this some better and worse but making three clean eight shot groups in a row on that target that I could not do on match day:killingpc (7) the 8th Henry took for some reason[smilie=f: made it a little encouraging to know that this bullet will work just fine. It out shot the bullet on the left by a far margin. I think I got the ogive radius a little to long compared the the shank length with the left bullet. It wont hold on a 400 yard target 3' square.
Both bullets will get more testing when I can get back to a long range under better conditions.

Kurt