Newbie....GC ....Plain Base .......= Tear my hair out if i had any!!!!!!!

[brad925]

Want to start casting for my 45-70 Buffalo Classic. I would like a boolit no more than 400grs. because of the short throat. I will be using smokeless powder and recoil is not an issue. What is an issue is how fast and at what hardness i can push a plain base boolit before leading and have to go to a G.C. I have 300 lbs. of WW's to use.

[Shiloh]

I've pushed softer lead boolits to 1250 in a .357 mag. Others on the forum have claimed
1400+ with harder lead. Boolit fit is paramount. How fast were you thinking??

Shiloh

[jack19512]

I have never used a GC with my 45/70. I can push them fast enough with a 340 gr. or 405 gr. PB to suit me with no leading.

[NickSS]

A good 400 gr bullet is the Lyman 457124 or 457125 (cant remember which is the 400 and which is the 500 gr one) Both are accurate in my rifles especially the 400 gr one. I have used it with 42 gr of 3031 and it shot clover leaf 3 shot groups out of my rifles (several liked the load). I never chronographed it but I would guess that it was around 1400 fps. This load will kill deer and elk with ease usually going right through the animal. Another good load at lower velocity is 27 gr of AA5744. This is a good target load using the same bullet. My bullets are cast from WW air cooled and sized .459"

[brad925]

A good 400 gr bullet is the Lyman 457124 or 457125 (cant remember which is the 400 and which is the 500 gr one) Both are accurate in my rifles especially the 400 gr one. I have used it with 42 gr of 3031 and it shot clover leaf 3 shot groups out of my rifles (several liked the load). I never chronographed it but I would guess that it was around 1400 fps. This load will kill deer and elk with ease usually going right through the animal. Another good load at lower velocity is 27 gr of AA5744. This is a good target load using the same bullet. My bullets are cast from WW air cooled and sized .459"

The 457124 is 366grs. in #2 alloy and 457125 is 464grs. in #2 alloy. What is there as cast size?

[brad925]

I've pushed softer lead boolits to 1250 in a .357 mag. Others on the forum have claimed
1400+ with harder lead. Boolit fit is paramount. How fast were you thinking??

Shiloh

I would like to be in the 1600 range. If not i will have to look into different sights. The williams that come on the H&R B.C do not give alot of adjustment. Might have to look into a venier and a false tang to mount it.

[DLCTEX]

If you can find one the Ranch Dog 350? gr.gaschecked and tumble lubed at 1600 ft. with SR4759 powder is a pleasent shooting and accurate load. Gas check and shoot as cast (.460). I tumble lube with LLA/JPW and have no leading. I'm thinking of removing the gas check from one cavity, as I think it would work well without it.

[Shiloh]

I would like to be in the 1600 range. If not i will have to look into different sights. The williams that come on the H&R B.C do not give alot of adjustment. Might have to look into a venier and a false tang to mount it.

WW alloy will all vary as the composition varies from lot to lot and location.
I don't think that there is a industry foundry standard composition for wheel weight lead.

I don't have a way to test lead hardness other than educated guesses by hitting with a ball peen hammer. I do know that water quenched wheel weight boolits are quite hard. I can't scratch at all with a thumbnail pressed quite hard.
Rick Kelter from http://www.lasc.us/CastBulletAlloy.htm#WW says it can be heat treated to 30 BHN

1600 fps sounds like the upper limit of non gas checked boolits, but there are folks on this forum who will know for sure. Remember though, boolit fit is a big part of the equation.

Is there a specific distance that you are trying for to be able to use your as issue sights??

Shiloh

[44man]

No need for a gas check in the 45-70 rifle. I shoot PB in my 45-70 revolver at over 1600 fps. I have, just once reached 1800 fps but accuracy kind of hid behind something but the boolits did not lead the bore. (Can you say "overspun" in a 1 in 14" twist?)
You need to look at gas checks if you are looking for high velocity with boolits that are too soft. Also using a fast powder, you might need them.
I am 100% sure you can get what you want with a PB boolit in the wonderful 45-70.

[brad925]

WW alloy will all vary as the composition varies from lot to lot and location.
I don't think that there is a industry foundry standard composition for wheel weight lead.

I don't have a way to test lead hardness other than educated guesses by hitting with a ball peen hammer. I do know that water quenched wheel weight boolits are quite hard. I can't scratch at all with a thumbnail pressed quite hard.
Rick Kelter from http://www.lasc.us/CastBulletAlloy.htm#WW says it can be heat treated to 30 BHN

1600 fps sounds like the upper limit of non gas checked boolits, but there are folks on this forum who will know for sure. Remember though, boolit fit is a big part of the equation.

Is there a specific distance that you are trying for to be able to use your as issue sights??

Shiloh

I am looking at about 500yds. If i can hit the rams without having the sight to the max and then hold over i'll be giggling like a little school girl. Although it probably would not hurt to change the sight. I am not hunting with it as i have an H&R Ultra in .450 Marlin already for that. I just want to launch some boolits down range a might farther than i usually would with it.

[1874Sharps]

Brad,

If you are looking for 500 yards, you might want to consider at least a 405 grain boolit and maybe even something a bit heavier. The heavier boolits will catch up and surpass the lighter ones by that range, I am pretty sure (I am still visiting the son and his family and am away from home and reference material).

[RayinNH]

Brad, I don't think you'll make it with the issue sights. I was almost maxed out at 100 yards.I inlet a brass plate in the wrist of the rifle and installed a Thompson Center tang sight that was made for the Hawken rifle. I don't know if the sight is still made today. I'm using Lyman boolit 457124, cast in WW metal they weight 385 grs. before lubing. Mine come out about .458 but get sized .457. I've tried water dropping but found them too hard to size, too much surface area, and felt that I would break the handle off of the machine. Now they get shot air cooled

I'm using WC872, a surplus powder, with a 4 grain kicker of 4198 for an estimated velocity of 1200-1300 fps. Even at that velocity the sight just comes back and touches my eye lashes. I wouldn't want to go higher. One other thing that will make shooting more pleasant for that light rifle is to take a piece of copper pipe the length of the buttstock hole (under the butt plate) and fill it with lead or pour bird shot directly into the hole. This will add a couple pounds to your rifle. Good luck...Ray

[SciFiJim]

Brad, There are two group buys for 45/70 boolits in NOE molds. One at 350gr and one at 425gr. They are supposed to close today, but if you decide in the next couple of days I can still get you in. Look in the group buy section for a 460425 and a 460350 or PM me if interested.

[Bullshop Junior]

Want to start casting for my 45-70 Buffalo Classic. I would like a boolit no more than 400grs. because of the short throat. I will be using smokeless powder and recoil is not an issue. What is an issue is how fast and at what hardness i can push a plain base boolit before leading and have to go to a G.C. I have 300 lbs. of WW's to use.
If you use a good lube, You should have no problems in a 45/70.

[Lead Fred]

None of my molds 400-500 are checked, Dont push them over 1400fps
Prime meat penetration speed

[44man]

The 45-70 takes a LOT of sight adjustment at 500 no matter what boolit or velocity! :drinks:
I figure in the neighborhood of 25 to 35 feet depending on the boolit, for drop.

[brad925]

The 45-70 takes a LOT of sight adjustment at 500 no matter what boolit or velocity! :drinks:
I figure in the neighborhood of 25 to 35 feet depending on the boolit, for drop.

A 420 gr. boolit at 1400 fps will drop 27 feet at 500 yds. That same bullet at 1800 fps. drops 17 feet at 500. This all aside yes i agree that it takes alot of adjustment. RCBS makes a GC 405-FN I might purchase. Will the top punches from the Lub-a-matic fit the Lyman lubasizer?

[DLCTEX]

Yes, the top punches are interchangable between Lyman and RCBS, as are the dies.