H&R Handi-Rifle strength?

[XWrench3]

i own a handi-rifle that is chambered in 223 remington. it is a bull barrel model. i inherited this gun with no paperwork, so it is not like i did a bunch of investagation before buying it. before i get myself in trouble with it, i figured i would ask a couple of questions. since it is a bull barrel, i would think that it would be fine to use N.A.T.O. military rounds in it, am i correct? also, again, since it is a bull barrel, i would think that loading near the top of the PUBLISHED load data would be ok, of course watching for pressure signs like normal. again, am i correct? i guess, i am assuming that there is more steel all the way around the full length of the barrel, thus it sould be stronger. maybe i am mistaken? i would also asume that since the "frame" of this is used all the way up to a 45/70, i shouldnt have to worry about that part of it with a 223. one last thing, anybody know what twist rate this thing has? i tried the tight patch thing, and it looks like ABOUT a 1 in 12, but i am not real sure. i got a couple of different readings, depending on how "tight" the patches were.

[rickster]

They are plenty strong for a 223.

[bubba.50]

handi's are chambered for .500 s&w. i wouldn't worry about anything you'd shoot through a .223. 1 in 12 is one of the twists used in handi's. www,go2gbo.com has a whole section devoted to h&r/nef and people there who probably know as much as the factory, check'em out. enjoy your gun, the one i had was an excellent shooter. for what it's worth, bubba.

[kbstenberg]

I would like to ask a question. But please dont bite. Why do all of you like the Handy Rifle? The consept is good but i find the weight rediculous. Most bolt guns dont weigh that much.
Kevin

[nicholst55]

The Handi-Rifle is plenty strong for a .223; that said, you still need to stay within published load data for the cartridge. Just because it's got a big honking barrel and the action is also chambered for the (low-pressure) .45-70 cartridge, doesn't mean that you can ignore caution.

Get a source of published data for the .223. Better yet, get two or three. Read them, and follow the precautions described there. Enjoy your Handi!

[357maximum]

In the smaller cal handi's are fine and durable. I have several (2-30/30 (one is old topper version),2- 223's and a 243)and I like them for front door/truck type beater guns. I shoot nothing but cast in one of my 223's and it is accurate way out of porportion to it's cost.


I have seen 2 of them(280REM and 30/06) that have had issues with the barrels underlug setting back though. They were both shot with a steady diet of factory rounds. The hinge pin and frame are very strong but apparently the underlug where the hinge bolt rests is the weak link in the chain.....I would say that the steel in the underlug is of the wrong composition for such calibers.

[Tazman1602]

I would like to ask a question. But please dont bite. Why do all of you like the Handy Rifle? The consept is good but i find the weight rediculous. Most bolt guns dont weigh that much.
Kevin

Accurate, Strong, Tough as nails, ugly right out of the box.............


.............and cheap, er, I mean inexpensive relatively. I've got a few I use for beater guns and two .17hmr wife and I use for squirrel hunting.

Mainly for me, accuracy and $$$$$$

[Gunlaker]

i own a handi-rifle that is chambered in 223 remington. it is a bull barrel model. i inherited this gun with no paperwork, so it is not like i did a bunch of investagation before buying it. before i get myself in trouble with it, i figured i would ask a couple of questions. since it is a bull barrel, i would think that it would be fine to use N.A.T.O. military rounds in it, am i correct?

...
...

one last thing, anybody know what twist rate this thing has? i tried the tight patch thing, and it looks like ABOUT a 1 in 12, but i am not real sure. i got a couple of different readings, depending on how "tight" the patches were.

I bought a well used Handi Ultra Hunter in .223. The manual says not to shoot military rounds in it. Mine has a 1:12 twist, but some of the newer ones have a faster twist.

BTW, mine hates the 55gr Remington UMC ammo. 3" groups @ 100 yards :-)

It likes the Federal 45gr loads and will group 1.25" @ 100 yards consistently. I've been able to improve on that a little bit with handloads, but have never achieved outstanding accuracy from it.

It is a fun little rifle to shoot though.

Chris.

[NHlever]

The SB2 receivers / frames are cast from 4140 steel ( or that series anyway) in the same foundry that casts the receivers for Rugers, and they are through heat treated so they should be pretty tough, and made by folks with a lot of experience in that field. This was true a few years ago anyway though H&R may have other sources now.

[XWrench3]

that said, you still need to stay within published load data for the cartridge. Just because it's got a big honking barrel and the action is also chambered for the (low-pressure) .45-70 cartridge, doesn't mean that you can ignore caution.

i have 7 load books, so that is not a problem. and, no, i wasnt looking to make a a 22-250 out of a 223. i just wanted to be sure there were not any weak links i should know about. several of the loads listed call for compressed charges. i have not loaded any of those as yet. i was always a little nervous about doing so.

[beng]

I have the Buffalo Classic 45-70, Handi Rifle 32" barrel. I wanted it for only one thing, to use it in a Buffalo silhouette match. (100 to 300 yds) My friends got me into it. They all have "Sharps" (If you have the money, good, go get one) I found it for about $300.00 last year. (new) I use a RCBS mold 405 bullet with IMR-4198. I started with Acc-5744. Found out, It was better with the imr 4198 (30 gr, 405 bullet @1350 fps) I did get a Williams receiver sight with the target aperture and kept the front globe. It will get to 300 with more to spare. (our range is only 300yds) It will out shoot many of the bigger guns ($) It was out matched with one gun, and it was one of the 45-110 Quigley Sharps. For a 45-70 or any cal. I think H&R makes one hell of a good gun. This gun can be loaded up to 25,000 psi and be safe.

[peter nap]

Accurate, Strong, Tough as nails, ugly right out of the box.............


.............and cheap, er, I mean inexpensive relatively. I've got a few I use for beater guns and two .17hmr wife and I use for squirrel hunting.

Mainly for me, accuracy and $$$$$$

That pretty well covers it.
I have a few including one in 12FH and two dedicated .730DDR

I shoot Ruger level 45/70 loads and top end 30/06 published loads.

They have been rechambered to 22-250 with no problems (other than not having enough barrel).

[leadman]

I had a laminated stock Ultra Varmint in 223 Rem. In the summer here in Arizona even with factory ammo the cases would not extract from the chamber at times. The make these guns with an extractor or an ejector. The ejector is much better at getting the fired brass out of the chamber.
I would not use NATO spec ammo. There is a dimensional chamber difference between 5.56 and 223 Remington as well as pressure.

You can call H&R with the serial number and they should be able to confirm that this is an SB2 reciever made for rifle cartridges unless you are sure this came from the factory as a rifle.

[peter nap]

I had a laminated stock Ultra Varmint in 223 Rem. In the summer here in Arizona even with factory ammo the cases would not extract from the chamber at times. The make these guns with an extractor or an ejector. The ejector is much better at getting the fired brass out of the chamber.
I would not use NATO spec ammo. There is a dimensional chamber difference between 5.56 and 223 Remington as well as pressure.

You can call H&R with the serial number and they should be able to confirm that this is an SB2 reciever made for rifle cartridges unless you are sure this came from the factory as a rifle.

Leadman, the SB1's also came with rifle cartridges, just low pressure cartridges.
You're right about the ejectors. I hate them. You can buy the camming extractor parts from the factory and I am going to have all mine extractor soon.

I have already removed the transfer bars and replaced the hammer with an older half cock notch, on all my Handi's. The transfer bars break and unless you pull the trigger completely back and hold, you get misfires and light primer strikes.

http://www.go2gbo.com/forums/index.php/topic,26264.0.html
Can I put a rifle barrel on a shotgun frame?

Rifle barrels other than 357mag and 44 mag cannot be put a shotgun frame since the shotgun frame is not heat treated to handle the pressure. Since rifle frames are heat treated investment cast alloy, they are safe to use higher pressures, the lower pressure shotgun barrels don't present a hazard to the firearm and/or user as the inverse does. The larger firing pin and surrounding hole in the frame is also an issue.

[Bucks Owin]

I would like to ask a question. But please dont bite. Why do all of you like the Handy Rifle? The consept is good but i find the weight rediculous. Most bolt guns dont weigh that much.
Kevin They're strong, inexpensive and accurate. But I certainly wouldn't want my .45/70 Handi any lighter! [smilie=b: Kicks to the point of flinching with a heavy load. I'm thinking of either ADDING weight to mine or shelling out for a real good recoil pad!...FWIW, Dennis

[Multigunner]

Many years ago I was told by a gun shop owner that using either 5.56 in a .223 or 7.62 in a .308 were not good ideas. The throating of the chambers was his cause for concern. He said the throat of a .223 was not suited to the military bullets and would cause increased pressures and affect accuracy.

I have noticed that some manufacturers of civilianized clones of military long arms state they use a sort of compromise chamber and throat to allow use of either military ball or civilian hunting ammo.

[WALLASK]

I agree with Multigunner. Also some military .223 ammo is loaded "hotter"(more pressure) than civilian versions.

[Rex]

I have a heavy barrel 223 with 1-12 twist. I load near top end published loads of Varget or RL-15 with a Hornady 50 gr. SX bullet or their 52 gr. HP. It shoots well for the price. I got it to put in the tractor cab and keep the coyotes cautious while picking corn. For the price I haven't been dissapointed but if I had it all to do over again, I probably wouldn't.
Rex

[leadman]

Peter, I may be wrong, but I think when the original H&R went out of business, the recievers were changed to SB2s and only the shotguns could be had on the SB1 reciever. I don't remember anything but the cast iron recievers from the "old" company with shotguns and low pressure rifle and pistol cartridges. I'll have to go to Greybeard Outdoors to check this for sure.

I have 2 "old" 58 caliber Huntsmans, 1 "old" Shikari that was 44mag., now 445 SuperMag, and a "new SB2 30-30. Have had at least a dozen others both old and new.

[peter nap]

Peter, I may be wrong, but I think when the original H&R went out of business, the recievers were changed to SB2s and only the shotguns could be had on the SB1 reciever. I don't remember anything but the cast iron recievers from the "old" company with shotguns and low pressure rifle and pistol cartridges. I'll have to go to Greybeard Outdoors to check this for sure.

I have 2 "old" 58 caliber Huntsmans, 1 "old" Shikari that was 44mag., now 445 SuperMag, and a "new SB2 30-30. Have had at least a dozen others both old and new.

You might be right. There was a period when they outsourced all the receivers and those serial numbers can't be fitted with rifle barrels.
It's all on Greybeards,
I have a couple of the old shotguns but all my rifles are SB2.

[peter nap]

Looks like you got the answer Leadman!
Quick is a walking database.

[leadman]

Yes, I was correct in my earlier post. Thanks to Quick for confirming this.

Awhile ago I posted about some problems with data concerning IMR4895 and the 30-30 in the IMR pamplets. My friend used a pamplet that showed too hot a load (35grs.)but he continued to fire it. The primer made a depression in the breechface and closed up the hole for the firing pin enough that the pin would not retract. Basically the gun is ruined. This was an older H&R combo gun, 30-30 & 20 gauge with snap on forend. It was a nice gun, was mine at one time.

What would a 270 or a 280 due to a cast iron reciever?

[John Taylor]

I think bolt thrust is what you need to worry about. A 12 gauge has around 6,000 pounds of bolt thrust. A 308 is closer to 8,000 pounds. Figure it like hydraulics, area of cartridge just in front of the rim times chamber pressure. The old cast iron frames will work with most black powder cartridges because of the lower pressure. The 223, while having high pressure, has a small area. If hand loads are hot enough to flatten primers then a cast iron frame will be damaged.

[sucngas]

My nephew has one. Very accurate, neat little gun. It will not extract ammo with steel cases. Other than that, not a bit of problem.

[JIMinPHX]

I got my .223 Handi a long time ago. It didn't come with any warning against using military ammo. That thing ate a steady diet of Nato headstamp ammo for years. I've never had a problem with it, except that it doesn't shoot accurately with ammo heavier than 55 grain. The green tip stuff goes through the paper sideways at 50 feet. Mine came with a 1:12 twist barrel. Some later ones came with 1:9. As long as the breach is closed up good & tight, she is a good strong rifle. I hear that the newer ones come with a warning against using military ammo. I don't know if they changed the rifles, or if they just changed lawyers.

[Gunlaker]

I stand corrected :oops:

I swear I read in there somewhere that you shouldn't use military ammo. I must have been dreaming. :veryconfu

Anyway, you can download a manual here for your new rifle if you don't have one already:

http://www.hr1871.com/documents/manuals/HR_NEF_HANDI_RIFLE_MANUAL.pdf

Chris.

[Fieldmaster]

Where is this information on Greyberd I have been trying to find this all this info about my H&R Shikari 45-70gov frame swap plus the other info on H&R/NEF rifles where exactly is it could someone give me a link to lt please

[Goatwhiskers]

Try: www.go2gbo.com (http://www.go2gbo.com) and scroll down to the NEF/Handi Rifle forum. In the FAQ you will find tons of info, plus sign on and the members are more than willing to help out. I'm too lazy to scroll back to the post concerning a rechamber of a .44Mag Shikari to .445SM, but it is not the best idea. That model has the old cast iron frame, in addition the barrel lug is silver soldered on. It may last forever with reasonable loads, maybe not, don't want to find out. My recently purchased .44M came on the SB1 frame, I rechambered to .445SM but only shoot those with the barrel installed on an SB2 frame. GW

[troyboy]

445 Sm at published load data is a non issue.

[dtknowles]

I would like to ask a question. But please dont bite. Why do all of you like the Handy Rifle? The consept is good but i find the weight rediculous. Most bolt guns dont weigh that much.
Kevin

Not all HandiRifles weigh the same. I have a 30-30 and it is very light, my 243 is pretty light too. It all depends on the barrel contour and length.

Tim

[Tackleberry41]

Peter Nap, which hammer would I need to go get from Numrich to get rid of the transfer bar in my 2 Handi rifles?

[seaboltm]

Did we really just resurrect a thread that had died almost 5 years ago? That's what I call making good use of the search function!

[crowbarforge]

I'd be interested in any help/hints of a trigger job on my Handi-Rifles. I have an older "Topper" in .30-30 and a newer (15 years old) .357Rem Max. Both are capable of excellent minute-of-head-shot-deer accuracy, but the danged trigger pull is 8 miles of dirt road. I have had some issues with light strikes on the primer too, never knew it was a common (or at least known) issue with the transfer bar and trigger control.

[drinks]

All of my Handis have been changed from ejector to extractor, I AM a hand loader and HATE hunting brass.
It is a 10 minute job to convert ejector to extractor, there are pictures on the forums,I have posted one at least twice.
My bull barrel .223 has the later 1/9 twist and have no problem with 63 and 70 gr bullets.
I do shoot mostly the Lee bator 53gr gc.

[GhostHawk]

First, Graybeard outdoors seems to be the home for all things Handi.

http://www.go2gbo.com/forums/hr-centerfire-rifles/

Look in the FAQ section.
There is LOADS to be read and learn there.

I recently bought a 2004 built Ultra in .223, before I sent the action back to the factory to be fitted for a couple more barrels I did a quick look at the trigger.
It wasn't what I would call a bad trigger, I'd say in the 4.5 to 5lb range. No I don't have a gauge but I do have a pretty accurate trigger finger.

With the barrel set off to the side I decided to try one of the methods described in the FAQ. Putting forward pressure on the hammer, (But also being ready to catch it so it didn't slam into the frame) I pulled the trigger.

Each time I did this I could feel it getting smoother and lighter. I may have done this 8-10 times total. I would recomend testing often, it is I think easy to get too light.

I have now what I'd guess is a 2.75 to 3lb trigger, just about right IMO. Some guys do like them lighter, but I'll leave it here until I've had a chance to shoot it more.

I would also take an emtpy case, minus primer, and fill it with hot melt glue, or melt down a bottle cap and drop it into the primer hole.
I've made a few of these and they seem to work great for home made snap caps.

I would use this every 2-3 times to test trigger pull. Shouldering the gun with barrel on, off hand on the forearm and no hand on the hammer makes a big difference in how it "feels".

I got mine just about 1 time lighter than I should have I think.
It certainly changed the pull quickly and easily. But very easy I think to go to far unless you test often.

[rfd]

... But very easy I think to go to far unless you test often.

the trigger engagement on handi's is only surface hardened, and i also do the "almost dry fire" trigger smooth out (with some powdered graphite), which is why i have an extra handi hammer and trigger on hand, just in case. :)

[Shawn2571]

i own a handi-rifle that is chambered in 223 remington. it is a bull barrel model. i inherited this gun with no paperwork, so it is not like i did a bunch of investagation before buying it. before i get myself in trouble with it, i figured i would ask a couple of questions. since it is a bull barrel, i would think that it would be fine to use N.A.T.O. military rounds in it, am i correct? also, again, since it is a bull barrel, i would think that loading near the top of the PUBLISHED load data would be ok, of course watching for pressure signs like normal. again, am i correct? i guess, i am assuming that there is more steel all the way around the full length of the barrel, thus it sould be stronger. maybe i am mistaken? i would also asume that since the "frame" of this is used all the way up to a 45/70, i shouldnt have to worry about that part of it with a 223. one last thing, anybody know what twist rate this thing has? i tried the tight patch thing, and it looks like ABOUT a 1 in 12, but i am not real sure. i got a couple of different readings, depending on how "tight" the patches were.

I wouldn't recommend shooting 5.56 nato ammo out of it. They are slightly different and loaded hotter. You can shoot .223 from a 5.56 but not the other way around. If you reload you can use 5.56 brass if you run it through a .223 die and use .223 rem load data. The handi rifles also don't tend to like max loads i would start a grain or two under max. I just scored in .500 S&W and some dies, hopefully one day i will be able to afford some brass and bullets. Lol

[Tom W.]

An old thread for sure. I have ( or Had ) two, a 30/30 and a .270
I Will suggest that you keep a close eye on the length of your brass, as ( at least in my .270 ) the brass had plenty of room to stretch. I also couldn't load a decent handload that would surpass the cheap WalMart Remington factory loads. I don't know , or at least remember, where my .270 wandered off to. I believe it's at my son's house, sitting in his safe.
The first 11 shots on game with the .270 resulted in 11 dead deer, without having to look for them....
I never killed anything with the 30/30 but targets, altho my youngest son has harvested quite a few with it....

[nhithaca]

I have a number of H&R/NEF rifles. All shoot very well with standard loads, but a 22 Hornet barrel I picked up used does like to hold on to the brass most times. Expect I should polish the chamber a little. Didn't know about the extractor conversion. Will have to look that one up.
Do have one of the last Rem built .500 S&W's that I haven't shot yet. Picked it up fairly cheap at a gun show. Barrel looks as big as a 20 gauge. Maybe people thought it was a shotgun!

[BAGTIC]

NATO rounds are not loaded hotter. Their pressures are tested using a different protocol. Pressures are taken with different equipment and measured at different locations on the case. This affects the difference in the numbers.