VMD of water?

[wiljen]

I was thinking about Trailboss and wondered. If I know the water capacity of a case and the VMD of water and trailboss, shouldnt I be able to translate that multiplied by .7 to find the starting load for trailboss?

Only problem - what is the VMD for water? trailboss is .2172 and I have the chart of water capacities of cases.

[WineMan]

At 68 F it should be 15.43 grains per cc of water (1 cc=1 gram). So dividing 1 grain Water/15.43 grains per cc, a grain of water would have a VMD of 0.0648 cc.

Wineman

[wiljen]

So if a case has a water capacity of 54gr, then it has a CC of .0648*54 =3.4992 CC capacity which divided by .2172 = 16.11gr *.7 (70% start charge) = 11.27gr of Trailboss

That look correct to you?

[wiljen]

Based on calcs, the following should be start and maximum charges of trail boss for most common cartridges. As always, your mileage may vary so check yourself.





Cartridge Water Capacity Starting Charge Max Charge
14 Hornet 12 2.51 3.40
17 Hornet 14 2.92 3.97
17 Remington 27 5.64 7.65
204 Ruger 33 6.89 9.35
219 Zipper 34 7.10 9.64
22 Hornet 14 2.92 3.97
22 K-Hornet 15 3.13 4.25
22 Savage 35 7.31 9.92
220 Swift 48 10.02 13.60
221 Remington Fireball 21 4.39 5.95
22-15 Stevens 17 3.55 4.82
222 Remington 27 5.64 7.65
222 Remington Magnum 32 6.68 9.07
22-250 Remington 43 8.98 12.19
223 Remington 31 6.47 8.79
225 Winchester 41 8.56 11.62
240 Weatherby Magnum 65 13.57 18.42
243 Winchester 54 11.28 15.30
250-3000 Savage 46 9.61 13.04
25-06 Remington 66 13.78 18.71
25-20 WCF 19 3.97 5.39
25-25 Stevens 29 6.06 8.22
25-35 WCF 37 7.73 10.49
25-36 Marlin 37 7.73 10.49
256 Winchester 22 4.59 6.24
257 Roberts 56 11.70 15.87
257 Weatherby Magnum 84 17.54 23.81
260 Remington 53 11.07 15.02
264 Weatherby Magnum 82 17.12 23.24
270 Weatherby 83 17.33 23.52
270 Winchester 68 14.20 19.27
280 Remington 67 13.99 18.99
28-30 Stevens 37 7.73 10.49
284 Winchester 66 13.78 18.71
30 Carbine 21 4.39 5.95
300 H&H Magnum 87 18.17 24.66
300 Savage 52 10.86 14.74
300 Weatherby Magnum 99 20.68 28.06
300 Winchester Magnum 89 18.59 25.22
30-06 Springfield 69 14.41 19.56
303 British 57 11.90 16.16
303 Savage 48 10.02 13.60
30-30 WCF 45 9.40 12.75
30-378 130 27.15 36.85
30-40 Krag 58 12.11 16.44
307 Winchester 54 11.28 15.30
308 Winchester 56 11.70 15.87
318 W-R 69 14.41 19.56
32-20 WCF 22 4.59 6.24
32-40 Ballard 41 8.56 11.62
33 WCF 63 13.16 17.86
333 Jeffery 86 17.96 24.37
338 Wincester Magnum 86 17.96 24.37
338-06 70 14.62 19.84
338-378 132 27.57 37.41
340 Weatherby Magnum 98 20.47 27.78
348 Winchester 75 15.66 21.26
35 Remington 51 10.65 14.45
35 WCF 69 14.41 19.56
35 Whelen 71 14.83 20.12
350 Remington Magnum 73 15.25 20.69
356 Winchester 57 11.90 16.16
357 Magnum 27 5.64 7.65
357 Remington Maximum 34 7.10 9.64
357/44 B&D 35 7.31 9.92
358 Winchester 57 11.90 16.16
375 H&H Magnum 95 19.84 26.93
375 Ruger 100 20.88 28.34
375 Winchester 49 10.23 13.89
378 Weatherby Magnum 136 28.40 38.55
38-40 WCF 40 8.35 11.34
38-55 Ballard 52 10.86 14.74
38-56 Win 62 12.95 17.57
38-72 Win 74 15.45 20.97
404 Jeffery 113 23.60 32.03
405 Winchester 78 16.29 22.11
416 Remington Magnum 107 22.35 30.33
416 Rigby 130 27.15 36.85
416 Weatherby Magnum 134 27.98 37.98
44 Remington Magnum 39 8.14 11.05
444 Marlin 69 14.41 19.56
44-40 WCF 40 8.35 11.34
454 Casull 47 9.82 13.32
45-70 Govt 79 16.50 22.39
458 Winchester Magnum 94 19.63 26.64
460 Weatherby Magnum 140 29.24 39.68
470 Nitro express 146 30.49 41.38
5.6x50R 34 7.10 9.64
50 BMG 293 61.19 83.04
6.5 Jap. 48 10.02 13.60
6.5 Remington Magnum 68 14.20 19.27
6.5x52 Carcano 49 10.23 13.89
6.5x53R 49 10.23 13.89
6.5x54 M-S(.256) 50 10.44 14.17
6.5x55 57 11.90 16.16
6.5x70R 39 8.14 11.05
6x70R 39 8.14 11.05
7 WSM 81 16.92 22.96
7.62 NATO 54 11.28 15.30
7.62x54R 64 13.37 18.14
7.65 Mauser 58 12.11 16.44
7mm Remington Magnum 84 17.54 23.81
7x57(R) Mauser 59 12.32 16.72
7x65R 68 14.20 19.27
7x72R 54 11.28 15.30
8mm Remington Magnum 98 20.47 27.78
8mm-06 70 14.62 19.84
8x50R Lebel 66 13.78 18.71
8x57(R) Mauser 62 12.95 17.57
8x72R 59 12.32 16.72
9.3x54R Fin. 65 13.57 18.42
9.3x57 Mauser 64 13.37 18.14
9.3x62 Mauser 77 16.08 21.82
9.3x72R 67 13.99 18.99
9.3x74R 82 17.12 23.24
9x57(R) Mauser 62 12.95 17.57

[felix]

The mileage will vary depending on the seating depth actually used within the straight or mostly straight wall cases. It's a matter of what is the realized water capacity of the case, so drop the above starting value for these cases by another 10 percent. Well done, Will. ... felix

[wiljen]

It has been brought to my attention that with some cartridges and particularly heavy, deep seated bullets, some of this data may be higher than acceptable. Remember when loading TB never to compress a charge. The powder should only come to the base of the bullet so please take the above as guideline and not absolute.

[andym79]

If Hodgdon Trailboss data indeed does relate to 58% and 85% case capacity! Then the range of velocity is more than that suggested!

Hodgdon suggest 997 to 1195 fps for a 160grn projectile in a .30-30 but the top velocity may therefore be extended to more like 1350 fps!

Has anyone used a chronograph on 160-170grn cast projectiles in a .30-30?

[Nobade]

I have found that in cases with a low expansion ratio - i.e. big case/small bore, less than 70% of available capacity makes a better load for TB. Even the 30-06 is more accurate and less likely to lead the bore at about 60% fill, and bigger stuff like the 7mm Rem Mag run well around 50%. Velocity isn't terribly high but much more than that leads the bore.

[John Boy]

The powder should only come to the base of the bullet so please take the above as guideline and not absolute.
This is not a true statement!


Wiljen, here is the procedure from the Hodgden website ... http://www.hodgdon.com/PDF/Trail%20Boss%20Reduced%20Loads%20R&P.pdf


Listed below we show a few examples of such loads throughout the Reloading Data Center, but the fun doesn't stop there. If you don't see Trail Boss data for your favorite cartridge we have a formula for developing loads for all cartridges and it's simple to follow. This formula may be used in both rifle and pistol applications:

Find where the base of the bullet to be loaded is located in the case and make a mark on the outside of the case at this location. Then fill the case to that mark with Trail Boss, pour into the scale pan and weigh. This is your maximum load. Pressures will be below the maximum allowed for this cartridge and perfectly safe to use!

Take 70% of this powder charge weight (multiply the maximum load from step 1 by .7), and that is your starting load.

Start with this beginning load and work up to your maximum charge, all the while searching for the most accurate reduced load. Once found, the fun begins!

[smoked turkey]

This is a very interesting thread and when it is all sorted out and a final "chart" is arrived at I think it could be a sticky. Good Job.

[wiljen]

John boy read your post again. It clearly says in the hodgdon page you quote:
"Find where the base of the bullet to be loaded is located in the case and make a mark on the outside of the case at this location. Then fill the case to that mark with Trail Boss, pour into the scale pan and weigh. This is your maximum load. "

My statement was:"The powder should only come to the base of the bullet"

How is that not true?

IF the numbers I wrote above would produce a compressed load, it should not be used ever. The maximum load should be that which reaches the base of the bullet without compression.

[singleshot]

I would suggest 50% case capacity is a better starting load for Trailboss in any caliber. Use standard OAL for caliber. I've found this load to be more accurate and more economical in every cartridge I've tried it in.

[John Boy]

How is that not true?
wiljen, as Hodgdon writes -

Then fill the case to that mark with Trail Boss, pour into the scale pan and weigh. This is your maximum load. Filled to the base is the maximum load but the 70% recommendation is the minimum ...

Take 70% of this powder charge weight (multiply the maximum load from step 1 by .7), and that is your starting load.

[wiljen]

Yep and that is why the table has the 100% and the 70% numbers and is clearly marked start and max. Again, not sure I follow what you are saying.