I've had it with the Lee Production Pot

[imashooter2]

I'm a dipper man. I admit it freely. I started on an open burner and I get great results casting that way. But the damn bottom pour is so convenient. Plug it in and cast. The idea calls to me and so I keep on trying to figure it out. Which brings me to my rant:

"Production Pot" my ****. The thing won't keep up with a dang 180 grain 2 hole. Wide open, the thermostat only gets the pot to 700 degrees. I start casting and only get a couple dozen pours. Every time I add back the sprues or an ingot that has been heating on the rim, the spout freezes. With a 6 hole, I can't even get the mold warmed up. It's an exercise in frustration.

So now I'm looking at the Lee 20 pound pots. They are 700 watts compared to the 10 pounder's 500. Lyman and RCBS rate their pots at 800 watts. Now there is no way I'm going to come off better than $200 for a Lyman or RCBS furnace with no guarantee that I'll like it. But the 20 pound Lee for $63 delivered...

What is your experience with the 20 pound Lee pot? What temperature will it get the lead to? Will it keep the lead at that temperature adding back sprues or preheated ingots to keep the level up? At very least, I should be able to cast twice as many before the level goes down enough to screw up the flow at the nozzle.

[Murphy]

imashooter2,

I've been using the Lee 20 Lb. pots for over 10 years. No complaints for what you get for the money.

As for 'temp'...I haven't a clue. I have no themometer for my casting. But I can keep my molds hot and build a pile of boolits in a hurry with one. I actually have two of them.

The main trick I have found in my experience with Lee's 20 lb. pots is keeping the spout clean from impurities in your alloy. Many refer to the Lee as a 'Drip-O-Matic'. And I'll not contest them on that.

Go for the Lee 20 Lb. pot. Learn how to deal with it and be happy. I think you'll be satisfied.

The only thing I could hope for better, would be a Magma Master Caster lead pot. I had a Master Caster for 3-4 years. Even the best can have a problem now and then. I had to have the heating element replaced about the middle of the 3rd year I had it. By the way...that cost me close to $100.00 back then...and that was over 15 years ago.

Best of luck........

Murphy

[Beau Cassidy]

I noticed in one of your other posts you are 49 and want to make it to 79. Get you a pot that will last you- a Magma. Sure- it costs, but with all of the fustration you have (and I had) with the Lee jobbers, do yourself a favor and get the Magma 40 lb'er or else you won't make it to 79! You won't have to buy another.

Beau

[jballs918]

one nice thing about the 20lb is that you can put about 15 lbs in it and that should get you going. i cant cast fast enough to drain mine before my mold gets to hot. when my molds gets to hot then i add my lead. maybe 5 lbs at a time. alot less down time. you just seem like you dont have a big enough pet is all

[imashooter2]

Murphy, When the lead level drops and you add back sprues or preheated ingots, will the pot keep going or do you have to wait for it to get back to temperature?

Beau, The bottom pour concept is attractive and everything, but there is no way I'm going to splash $400 for a Magma pot. I have no doubt it's a fine piece of equipment, but for $400, I'll be dipping lead for the next 30 years and deal with the inconvenience of the set up and tear down.

Jballs, With the Coleman, I just keep a wet sponge in a shallow plate. When the mold gets hot a touch on the sponge and I'm back in business. Plenty of BTU's in the Coleman to keep the melt at whatever reasonable temperature I want. I add the sprues back as I cast and drop cold ingots into the melt as I go with no issues.

I'm not a speed caster. Is it unreasonable to expect that once the melt is at temperature, the pot should be able to keep up?

[Bman]

I wonder if you have a problem with that pot that Lee should fix. My 10# pot rocks heat wise. I crank it all the way up to get started and then have to back it down to 2 when it starts getting low I add some lead and run the heat up to 4. If I am running multiple moulds or a 6 banger I leave it at 4 and never need to slow down, waiting on the melt to come up to temp.

[dragonrider]

I have two Lee production pots, they will easily heat to 850, I normally cast at 750 and have no problems keeping the temp up even when using a 6 cavity mold. I only cast from one pot, the other I use to fill the one I cast from. I never add cold lead to casting pot only hot. I keep my thermometer in the casting pot and the other I just keep the temp on 7 or 8. Also I never add dead cold lead to the other pot either. I hold an ingot with pliers and heat it with a propane torch. I do this to remove moisture and warm up the ingot until is starts to shine then lower it in the pot. I know this takes time but after a moisture accident some years ago I don't put any lead in my pots unless the pot is cold or the lead has been warmed.

[9.3X62AL]

No experience with the Lee 20# critters. I did have 2 of the Lee 10 pounders and I would call them "adequate". Your experience sounds like a defective rheostat or heat element--my 10's would take a little time to re-heat when I added back sprues or ingots, but by that time I need to clear off the boolit landing pad anyway. That's the same procedure I use with the RCBS 22# beast and 2 molds at a time, BTW. A truly great tool, IMHO.

The spout freeze-up is a direct result of too-cool heat source--I can prompt it in my RCBS if I don't crank the heat up a bit when adding to the pot. My usual casting temp is 675*, I just dial it up to 800* after add-in and set it back when I start pouring again. So, spout freeze-up isn't limited to the less expensive pots.

The added capacity of a 20# pot can extend a casting sequence, esp. with bigger boolits and more cavities. The 4-hole Lymans in 44 and 45 caliber can drain the 10 pounders pretty quickly, and they make a pretty good dent in the 22# RCBS, too.

I still think your present pot is defective, though.

[montana_charlie]

I still think your present pot is defective, though.
If 700° is all you can squeeze out of it, I agree with Deputy Al.
CM

[fecmech]

I had a 10lb. Lee pot and it would not keep up with a 4 cavity mold when adding warmed ingots and sprus back to it. I sent it back to Lee for repair , when I got it back it still would not keep up so I gave it away. I had used an old Lyman (Saeco) pot which was a 1000 watt which I bought new in 1970, it would keep up with 2- 4 cavities and adding ingots and sprues as I went. I now have the RCBS pot and it runs fine with anything I cast with 4 or 6 banger.

[Swagerman]

I had to put a heat element in my Lee 10# last year which is over 25 years old and its cutting the mustard so far, but does not get real hot.

I've been considering a 20# Lee pot, but really too chincey to spring for it while the 10# is still working.

Boy, you really have to admire the guys on this forum that have the 40# plus pots, they are super casters. Take a bow you special few who spend the big bucks. :mrgreen:

Jim

[454PB]

I have three Lee bottom pours, one twenty (actually holds about 18 pounds of wheelweights) one 10 pounder with valve, and one 10 pounder that has the valve removed and the hole brazed shut. The oldest is the brazed one, and I bought it when they first came out around 1976 or so. All three of them will run hotter than I've ever needed. I normally set the thermostat at #7 to #7 1/2. None of them has ever given me a problem other than the special treatment we all use to avoid "the drip". I think you have a bad or misadjusted thermostat. If you're not prone to tinkering, send it back to Lee and tell them your problem.

[imashooter2]

I suppose it's possible the PP is defective. I bought it used. I've had it apart and cleaned the contacts on the thermostat and the little plug tabs for the electrical connections. Do the heating elements go bad without going open? I thought it was just a big resistor and as long as the circuit wasn't open, it was good.

[Ranch Dog]

ima... I've got a couple of the Pro 4-20s and really like them. With the new pot, I used the Permatex #133 as suggested in the instructions and I'm not dogged with the Lee leak some fellows have.

I don't add my cuttings and rejects back until I'm ready to melt another load of ingots. Once I get a pot of lead ready to pour, I don't mess with it. My number of weight rejects have dropped to about zero. In the past I would get some "light" boolits among those cast and someone suggested it was because I kept stirring the pot and adding alloy back in. Don't know if that is what was causing the light boolits but since I stopped adding to the pot...

[454PB]

Do you own a clamp on ammeter? I have checked all of mine using the ammeter just to watch thermostat cycling and to verify that they really are the wattage they claim. You're right, electric elements either work or they don't......very long anyway. A high resistance connection could reduce efficiency, but it would also get very hot at the connection point.

How about bypassing the thermostat as a test?

[imashooter2]

Do you own a clamp on ammeter? I have checked all of mine using the ammeter just to watch thermostat cycling and to verify that they really are the wattage they claim. You're right, electric elements either work or they don't......very long anyway. A high resistance connection could reduce efficiency, but it would also get very hot at the connection point.

How about bypassing the thermostat as a test?

No ammeter available, but I can hear the thermostat cycle. The connections all looked pretty good when I had the thing open. No melted insulation, discoloration or anything that would indicate a hot spot. Easy enough to do the bypass. I'll give it a go and see if the pot gets hotter.

[Buckshot]

............I have the Lee Pro4-20 and have had it for many years. With the heat cranked up and about a half pot of lead, according to my Lyman thermometer she'll reach well over 900* and approch 1,000*.

http://www.fototime.com/EB8491CA90B0461/standard.jpg

I keep the alloy temp about 850 and cast quickly using a modified BruceB method. With a full mould on the way to dump them I invert the mould and touch the sprueplate to the damp pad. Strike the sprueplate over and dump, then close the blocks easily (helping with my gloved right hand. Then on the way back to the pot I touch the base of the blocks to the pad for a quick "1-2" count then refill and repeat.

http://www.fototime.com/FC7FB74B506D8FB/standard.jpg

The above is the result. These are the Group Buy 130gr 6.5mm Loverin design slug. Very well filled out and full diameter boolits at a pretty good lick. You cannot make this many without adding metal back to the pot. With the 6 cavity Lees and pouring a good solid sprue that comes off in one piece, I will pick them all up about every 5 dumps, and put'em back in the pot while they're still good and hot.

In addition I can set a couple ingots on the rim to be preheating. Adding a hot 1 lb ingot may drop the temp back 5 degrees, if that. It's back up to temp quickly and ready of another 5 sprues by the time I can get them generated.

Those boolits represent about 1.5 hours work. I have to stop for a second maybe every 15 minutes or so to touch my toes and twist back and forth a bit, as my back will get a tad stiff.

When I strike the sprueplate over the boolit bases get a good look before dumping. 99 times out of 100, if the base is good and crisp, so will the boolit be. If one is rounded some, for whatever reason the entire batch is dumped with eh sprues and I continue. Takes too much time after dumping with the good obes to manuver the freshly dumped slugs around to find the one with the 'off' base. FAster to just keep going.

.................Buckshot

[Springfield]

My RCBS 22# pot is head and shoulders better than my 3 LEE 20#'s. First off, the RCBS actually holds 22 pounds, whereas the LEE's hold about 17 pounds. I cast from the RCBS and use one of the LEE's to melt ingots in to add to the RCBS so the temp doesn't vary so much. I also drop the sprues in the RCBS which seems to work well. I use mostly LEE six gangers, and I can cast 800 bullets an hour without running out of lead, as long as the mould is 250 grains or smaller. Plus the RCBS holds a temp better as the thermostat in on the pot instead of in the tower NEXT to the pot.

[imashooter2]

Well, I did the bypass of the thermostat and the pot went to 860 before I turned it off. So it looks like I have a pot that needs fixing.

Since Midway won't sell me just the thermostat without a small order charge, I guess I'll just have to get the 20 pounder to make up the shortfall.

Buckshot, You are doing with the Lee pot what I do with a ladle on the Coleman. Maybe a little faster, but pretty much the same. I want to be able to cast for a full afternoon without stopping for the pot to reheat. I hope my experience will match yours.

Further reports after I get my new toy...

[Old Ironsights]

I have the 10# Lee with bottom pour. Since all I really do is pure lead (mostly RB & some slow BP .357 boolits) it suits my needs - though I had to add 1.5" of tube steel between the base & frame so I could use an HP mould...

What "special treatment" are youse guys talking about to deal with the drip? It's never been a serious problem for me.

[454PB]

You can see in Buckshot's picture some special treatment. He's got a set of vicegrips attached to the flow rod to add weight and help seal the valve.

My special treatment is to keep a dental pick handy and use it to ream the valve opening whenever I see signs of leakage. I put the pick in the opening, then lift the rod and poke the junk loose while the lead flows into a catch pan and flushes out the debris. I'll end up with maybe 1000 grains of lead in the catch pan, which goes in the pot. I also pull out the metering rod every fifth or sixth pot full and clean it with some emery cloth.

[SharpsShooter]

Imashooter2,

I just "upgraded" from a Lee 10 pound to their 20 pounder. Both are good pots for the money and are capable of handling the 6 cavity moulds just fine . You have to stay ahead of the pot with preheated ignots to drop in as you reach the half empty point. Leave the last boolits in the mold to help retain heat as you add the sprues and hot ignots to the pot. Using a 10# pot and this method, i recently ran 600 of the GB 32-120 in less than an hour with no rejects to speak of. The new 20# will easily get to 950*+ full of alloy in about 30 minutes. I cast big 45-70 boolits that weigh 520 gr with either pot and have fine results also.

[DLCTEX]

imashooter2: The thermostat ia available from lee for $7.00 + 4.00 s&h leeprecision.com
Dale C.

[Ken O]

My Lee 20#er if turned up all the way will send my Lyman termometer all the way around past the max to 1000º+. I did have a bad thermo on a 10#er, call Lee they will send you on real cheap.

[montana_charlie]

Well, I did the bypass of the thermostat and the pot went to 860 before I turned it off. So it looks like I have a pot that needs fixing.
If that thermostat resembles others I've seen, you should be able to figure out which direction the contacts must move to open the circuit.

Then you should be able to find the finger (or whatever) that kicks them open.

Knowing that, a little judicious bending on the 'finger' should increase the temperature across the entire selection range.

If that finger is the bi-metal strip which senses the temperature, do all of the bending right near the anchored base end...not in the middle.

Bend it away from the contacts so it has to heat more to kick them open.

A small amount can make a big change...so take baby steps.
CM

[Oregunner]

I have both a 10# & 20# Lee. I got the 20# unit because I had the same trouble you did with 6 cavity molds & the 10#. I spent more time feeding the pot & waiting than I did casting. Now I fire them both up & add hot ingots from the ten pound pot to the 20. I can melt wheel weights in the 10# one & clean it as I go. I let my molds cool while I feed the wheel weights. Works great. I like the adjustable metering screw on the 20#job to keep the lead flowing the same as the level goes down. A quarter turn is a lot.

[imashooter2]

If that thermostat resembles others I've seen, you should be able to figure out which direction the contacts must move to open the circuit.

Then you should be able to find the finger (or whatever) that kicks them open.

Knowing that, a little judicious bending on the 'finger' should increase the temperature across the entire selection range.

If that finger is the bi-metal strip which senses the temperature, do all of the bending right near the anchored base end...not in the middle.

Bend it away from the contacts so it has to heat more to kick them open.

A small amount can make a big change...so take baby steps.
CM

My buddy Slughammer gave me the same advice. I ordered the 20 pound pot, but no thermostat. I'll bend on the one I have and see what happens. Worst case, I bugger it up real good and have to buy a replacement from Lee or next order at Midway.

One question though. You say to bend the bimetal away from the contacts. You mean like this?

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/imashooter2/pictures/therm-marked.jpg

Seems counter intuitive. I would have bent them the opposite way so they'd be in firmer contact...

[Finn45]

I haven't checked Lee's bimetal switch, but in that picture it looks like bimetal is on the bottom; the leaf covered with letters and numbers. It heats and bends upwards pushing longer contact leaf away from the shorter one and finally disconnecting them. Bend bimetal leaf downwards (from the fixed end using baby steps as advised) and try again. Somebody correct me if I misunderstood this, my assumption is based on the picture and might be wrong.

[imashooter2]

I'm pretty sure the center leaf is the bimetal. The lower leaf has no electrical connection. The center leaf is thin and very flexible. The upper leaf is stiff.

[montana_charlie]

imashooter2,
The angle of that picture makes it a little hard to say for sure which leaves are doing what. But this is what I think...

The bottom leaf (with the 'PMC L2' stuff) is the bimetal strip.
The lettering probably tells how it reacts to temperature.

As it heats, it curls upward, pushing that plastic button/post insulator against the 'long' contact. (I assume the connection tab for the wiring which can't be seen is on the 'long' leaf.)
It will eventually move so high the 'long' will break from the 'short' leaf, turning off the heat.

Your adjustment screw sets the position of the 'short' leaf, so that it takes more or less movement in the bimetal to break the contacts.
If you were to bend the 'short' leaf it would have to be done between the contact pad and that plastic pushrod the screw controls. That would cock the contact pad and it wouldn't sit flat to the other contact...causing arcing and eating up the contact.

I would bend the bottom leaf (PMC L2) downward just a bit.

Make the bend right next to the riveted leaf and insulator stack so the main body of the bimetal strip can curl and uncurl naturally as temperature changes.

Seeing how 'close coupled' that thermostat is...I'm certain that a tiny adjustment will make a very noticeable change.
When you just think you 'feel' it bend...even though you haven't 'seen' it move...that is enough to start with.
Reassemble, test, and go back in if you need more. At least you will have an idea of how much it takes to get where you want to be.

If you can get a setting which cuts off the heat at 900°, that should be plenty. No sense in over working the heating element.

If the assembly looks different in person than what I see...you're on your own, and good luck.
CM

[redbear705]

You should probably check the voltage to your furnace (while heating) to be sure you got enough power to get the heater bands working to their full potential.

Just a thought.....JR

[knothead]

Send it back to lee. My 20lb keeps up with my saco 4x300 45-70 boolits and I water drop those so they go pretty darn fast. I cast at 720, and ahve gone hotter but the boolits look best at 720 with my current ww batch.

fwiw Lee will replace or repair it for half the price of new.

[Finn45]

Bimetal leaf doesn't need connection when it's not part of the circuit, only actuator for contacts. You can heat it with soldering iron or small flame (cigarette lighter) to you see how it works. Try first the marked lower leaf, be careful and don't overheat it.

[imashooter2]

A few moments with a hair dryer confirmed that the bottom leaf was, in fact, the bimetal. Gap between the tit on the end of the bimetal and the upper leaf was .006 at lowest setting, .035 at highest setting. I bent the bimetal to provide .020 gap at lowest setting and tested. At lowest setting, lead will not melt. At highest setting lead gets to 870 degrees.

[Bucks Owin]

That sounds about right. Mine won't melt at lowest setting either...

Sounds like ya got it fixed! :drinks:

Dennis

[imashooter2]

Yep. I just spent a couple of hours calibrating the thermostat while I puttered around the basement. Didn't cast any, but it is clearly better than it was.

Thanks to everyone for the advice.

[sig2009]

imashooter2: The thermostat ia available from lee for $7.00 + 4.00 s&h leeprecision.com
Dale C.

Thanks. Looks like the thermostat is my problem also. I'll order a new one from Lee next week.

[dbarnhart]

I went from a Lee 10# pot to the RCBS Pro-Melt. The Pro-Melt has been worth every penny.

1. No drips.

2. I can top it up with ingots a couple pounds at a time without having to stop and let it recover.

3. No drips

4. The little 'shelf' that supports the mold while pouring takes the weight off my wrist.

5. No Drips.

6. The thermostat is accurate and holds the temperature where I set it.

7. No Drips.

[imashooter2]

I went from a Lee 10# pot to the RCBS Pro-Melt. The Pro-Melt has been worth every penny.

1. No drips.

2. I can top it up with ingots a couple pounds at a time without having to stop and let it recover.

3. No drips

4. The little 'shelf' that supports the mold while pouring takes the weight off my wrist.

5. No Drips.

6. The thermostat is accurate and holds the temperature where I set it.

7. No Drips.

Huh! My 20 pound Lee doesn't drip, I can add ingots and cast continuously, it has a mold support and the temperature stays constant enough.

Glad you're happy. For the hurting RCBS put on your wallet, you ought to be.

[skimmerhead]

I went from a Lee 10# pot to the RCBS Pro-Melt. The Pro-Melt has been worth every penny.

1. No drips.

2. I can top it up with ingots a couple pounds at a time without having to stop and let it recover.

3. No drips

4. The little 'shelf' that supports the mold while pouring takes the weight off my wrist.

5. No Drips.

6. The thermostat is accurate and holds the temperature where I set it.

7. No Drips.

there's a big difference between the lee 10 and the 20 pound pot. i have both and there's a long time the 10 hasn't been used. it's on the shelf in case the 20 goes out.

skimmerhead:castmine:

[405]

While any pot will drip once in a while, the Lee seems to be most prone. Since I mostly ladle pour, the simple solution was to take the stem out of my Lee 20# pot, plug the hole and use it for ladle pouring. Then use my Saeco for pot pouring roundball and short pistol which seem less sensitive to wrinkling and other imperfections.