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View Full Version : Saw an article in the latest Handloader magazine...



Harry O
01-06-2010, 02:46 PM
on loading the 38WCF for handguns. It was authored by Mr. Venturino. I agree with everything he said about it. I started out with 44-40's, but since every one of them had dimensional problems (sometimes using .44 Mag parts and sometimes not), I turned to the 38-40. They are made right. I have been using the 38-40 for CAS and rarely miss a shot (my speed -- or lack of it -- is an entirely different matter and is not the fault of the caliber).

I would like to add three things to what was in the article. Like his friend "Schrapnel", I took a little off the bottom of my 38-40 sizing die, in order to size enough of the neck so that it would chamber freely in all my guns. It does not take much. I had to take off double on my 44-40 dies to get them to work.

Because the 38-40 dies are steel, case lube is needed. It quickly builds up and causes dents in the case (like was said in the article). The dents iron out when shot, but there is a memory of the dent. The next time you size it, the dent will return in EXACTLY the same place. It only takes 2 or 3 reloads for it to crack there. The solution is to use a soft rag sprayed with WD-40 to wipe the case before resizing. And, no, I have never had a problem with the primers while doing that. You only need a little lube and that is enough. It does not build up enough to cause dents. In addition, it make is easy to see when a dent has cracked through. The WD-40 spreads through the crack and is visible as a darker spot inside the case.

Unfortunately, you can still get dents even if you only use WD-40 lube. However, I have found that they are usually caused by pushing the case into the die too fast. At a normal speed, I will get dents about half the time. I learned that by slowing down my speed, there are a lot fewer dents. I bring the case up to touch in the die, then SLOWLY press it in. By slowly I mean 4 or 5 seconds from first touch to bottoming out. My theory is that the brass has time to yield instead of taking the easy way out by buckling. The important thing is to keep the handle moving steadily, but slowly. Don't start and stop. Doing it this way I very rarely have dents anymore.

I would like to get one of the double action 38-40's like he pictured, but every one I have run across is considered a rare collectors item.

lwknight
01-06-2010, 05:06 PM
I have found that silicone spray sizes easier and can be used exactly the same way as WW-40.
It seems to leave a slicker residue.


I had for a time a possiblility to get an old 38-40 that my grandfather actually used to ward off indians in Jack County TX. It ended up going to another cousin. I have no idea how old the ammo was but, when I shot at a target at 100 yds away and 5' off the ground the bullet hit dirt at the 50 yd line. LOL

Bullshop Junior
01-06-2010, 05:13 PM
I never get dents using bullsize.

machinisttx
01-06-2010, 06:49 PM
If you're referring to the Colt 1878 DA revolvers, they are collectors items. The lockwork in them is pretty fragile as well.

mpmarty
01-06-2010, 07:15 PM
Sizing wax is the solution to case dents.

Springfield
01-06-2010, 07:16 PM
Using Dillon or Frankford Arsenal sizing spray I never get dents either. WD-40 is not that good of a lubricant, in my experience.

Harry O
01-06-2010, 09:03 PM
I've never tried silicone spray or bullsize. I agree that sizing wax would do even better, but I have only used that when I am doing a lot of sizing (like a 7mm Improved wildcat from a 30-40 Krag case or a 9.5x57MS from a 35 Whelen case).

The only problem I have with wax is getting it off after sizing. It takes me a lot of work to do that. I have never fired a case with a coating of wax on it, but everything I have read says it is not good for the firearm. How do you remove it afterward?

P.S. The spray lube I have had problems with is the Hornady spray.

runfiverun
01-06-2010, 09:47 PM
i use the dillon spray with lanolin.
and treat the cases like rifle cases. lube, size, and tumble.

JIMinPHX
01-06-2010, 09:50 PM
I used to use Lee case lube, because it came with a kit that I bought many years ago. When that ran out, I bought Hornady case lube, because it was on the shelf at a local store. Any case lube will work well when used correctly.

TAWILDCATT
01-07-2010, 03:35 PM
I notice no one mentions Lyman spray lube. I use it and never had a stuck case and I convert cases to other calibers.I like WD 40 but it is a lousy lube.

two dogs
01-07-2010, 09:19 PM
i just resized some 300 mag cases and used my bullet lube it worked great.50/50 olive oil and beeswax.

jcwit
01-07-2010, 10:00 PM
Try teflon spray, dry lube works great and no mess, no dents. Available at menards in the auto section under the Blaster brand name.

Harry O
01-08-2010, 10:35 AM
Just out of curiosity, how many people posting that they have had no problems with dents have sized 38-40's (or for that matter, the 32-20)?

I started loading the 32-20 about 45 years ago, the 44-40 about 20-25 years ago, and the 38-40 about 15 years ago. I have always had dent problems. I have never had dent problems on any straight sided pistol case nor any bottleneck rifle cases, regardless of the lube used or the speed of sizing the case.

From my experience, the 38-40 is the worst, the 32-20 almost as bad, and the 44-40 the least problem. I have also found more recently, that Starline brass (which is a little thicker) is somewhat less of a problem than Remington or Winchester, but even then, I have to be more careful than with other cases.

If there are others out there who have no problems with dents in any of the WCF pistol cartridges, please share your secret with me.

cwskirmisher
01-08-2010, 12:12 PM
I use Hornady One-Shot spray aerosol case lube on my 44-40 cases, and rarely if ever do I have any dents. It also does not build up in the die. I have reloaded thousands of 44-40 cases, and use one-shot exclusively without any problems.

cajun shooter
01-08-2010, 12:23 PM
Harry-O, I load the 44-40 for my cowboy guns and don't have any problems. I use Starline cases and Dillon spray. After loading I wipe the rounds off with a rag before boxing. Yes it is slow but at 62 I am in no hurry to go foward any faster than I am already doing. I did have the lube wrinkles using the One Shot spray and Winchester cases in the neck area. I have in most of my reloading time shot the 45 Colt and compared to your time I am a neophyte.

BarryinIN
03-03-2010, 01:58 AM
This was a timely article for me, as I just bought my first 38WCF- a Colt New Service. I didn't realize how little info had been written on the caliber in comparison to others until I bought that gun and started looking.
Thanks, Mr V, it's been of help already and I happen to have the magazine right next to the computer and opened to it right now.
The part about finding 38WCF ammo with crimped-in primers was just one tidbit of info I was not aware of.

303Guy
03-03-2010, 03:57 AM
The only problem I have with wax is getting it off after sizing. It takes me a lot of work to do that. I have never fired a case with a coating of wax on it, but everything I have read says it is not good for the firearm. Interesting. I wonder exactly how lube left on a loaded cartridge can be 'not good for a firearm'? Well OK, let me put it this way, I will never fire a 'dry' cartridge in one of my guns. Why - because I consider it to be bad for them! It's not good for the cases themselves anyway. I know of the test done with a lever action 30-30 with the locking lugs removed and the case staying in place by virtue of case to chamber 'grip'. Well, I have seen for myself a 303 Brit case holding itself in place with lube on it! Just saying.

Lloyd Smale
03-03-2010, 07:08 AM
I know my 4440s require little or no lube to size even in a steal die. I can for the most part get away with none but will usually give them a very light spray of one shot. Same goes for the 3220.