260/280 gr 45 LBT WFN PB usage and satisfication?

[Changeling]

I am currently "Really" interested in getting this mold for use in my Ruger 45LC BlackHawk. The only thing that is holding me back at this point is that I don't have reliable measurements on the revolver throats and barrel groove diameter. These will be available when gun is absolutely clean.

Plus, Veral Smith is a really big fan of heavy (long bearing surface) projectiles in any caliber. This pretty well says that the heavies will be more accurate. They also have a lot more recoil and i have yet to have anyone give a reasonable explanation of accuracy loss from low to high (heavy) at a given distance like 100 yd.

I was wondering if any one has used either of these 2 bullets in a Ruger 45LC and would care to expound on what he/she thinks. Just say what you think without what other people have said. If you see or would like something to be known, just do it. Please tell the weight, fps, and BRN (roughly).

[44man]

Not to step on anyone's toes that has used them but either should work just fine. I would lean to the 280 gr though. I think it will be easier to work loads with.
I have shot a lot of 250 gr stuff with satisfaction so even the 260 gr should work fine.
I hope someone with those molds comes in and gives a better picture for you.

[outdoorfan]

Yes, go with the 280, especially if you care to hunt with it. Neither weight is considered heavy. I consider the 260 light.

[Fowler]

I would go to a LFN instead of a WFN design myself. My experience with light WFN bullets is you really have to run them hard to get good accuracy from them. I have a 250gr WFNGC mold that I have to run to max loads for my Ruger 45 colt to get good accuracy and then it begins to fall apart at ranges 75 yards or futher in a hurry. LFN designs can be run slower and generally will always give better accuracy than WFN designs especially at longer ranges.

I am thinking about a 280gr .453 LFNPB mold myself right now...

[Changeling]

I would go to a LFN instead of a WFN design myself. My experience with light WFN bullets is you really have to run them hard to get good accuracy from them. I have a 250gr WFNGC mold that I have to run to max loads for my Ruger 45 colt to get good accuracy and then it begins to fall apart at ranges 75 yards or futher in a hurry. LFN designs can be run slower and generally will always give better accuracy than WFN designs especially at longer ranges.

I am thinking about a 280gr .453 LFNPB mold myself right now...


This is interesting. When you say the the 250gr WFN falls apart in accuracy past 75 yards with full throttle loads, what is the accuracy (inches)? Can you give the load please?
Why is the LFN more accurate, in your opinion.

[yondering]

I had a reply last night but got a power surge and lost it... :killingpc

I've used the 280gr WFN (as available from Beartooth Bullets) on one bobcat, but did not get a deer with it that year. In my honest opinion, the Lee 300 WFN is a better fit for the 45 Colt Blackhawk. It's the same basic design, but a little heavier, with a little longer bearing surface, and slightly larger meplat. I do get a little better accuracy with the Lee bullet in my Ruger. For hunting, I can't see that the LBT 280 would have any advantage over the Lee 300.

With that said, if I were to buy one, I'd get the 260 for lighter plinking loads (or a LFN in that weight if what Fowler says is true) and use the Lee 300 for hunting. The 280 is a good boolit, but maybe just an in-between-er that's not really a plinker and not really a heavy hunting boolit?

[anachronism]

Order ready made bullets from Beartooth or Cast Performance & see which one you prefer. Beartooth had a bit of a wait for bullets, the last I heard, but Cast Performance can be purchased from Midway & others.

[cptinjeff]

I have some of the Beartooth 300 g wfn. If you need a few to test I can send them to you. I also have a 280g wfn mold from Veral. I like them both. I went with the shorter wfn because I shoot them out of both a blackhawk convertable and a freedom arms 1997 (the fa requires a shorter nose). I haven't noticed any accuracy difference between the two but I don't shoot from a ransom rest or anything. I shoot open sights plus both guns have shorty barrels so I don't really shoot groups past 50 yds (I will plink at any range). Accuracy was better with both bullets at >1150 fps. I have 800-900 fps loads that "I" can shoot 2 inch groups at 25yds and 1150 + at down to 1.5 inchs. I'm not a group shooter however and do much better aiming at empty shotgun hulls or whatever. I shoot groups seated with the gun between the knees. When I try to set up a rest on a bench I don't get as good a groups. Sorry, I know a better shooter could give you much better info. I have killed deer out to 80 yds with each of these bullets and they did just fine. I could send you a few of each if you want to try em out before buying the mold . jeff

Also...recoil does feel less with the lighter bullet in my smaller 1997. Not sure I notice a difference with the blackhawk (given similar velocities).

[.45Cole]

I order 260 and 280 LFN's from montana cast and use them for high hower shooting and trying to hunt with them. The 260 is linger than the 280 and the last 260 cartridge in my marlin jams. I bought the 280's and they are perfect.

[HammerMTB]

Well, I finally got a chance to bust some caps over some of those 300's I made with your mold, Dan.
As feel goes, they shot nice. They were REALLY high, tho. To be expected from a boolit that weight when I usually shoot a 255 gr in that BH
Since I couldn't find any 296 or H110, I settled on a load of 16.9 of IMR 4227. I had to scrounge to find a load I had powder for.
It didn't work out like I expected. Vel was 768 avg. I had targeted 1000FPS, tho I knew I was on the low side of that, didn't figure I was that far low of it.
Now the high POI made sense.
The ol' plinkin' load with a 255 gr Lee FP is a lot of fun and can shoot all day, tho.
Either one would make short work of one of the runt deer in these parts.... I'm thinking if I turn up the loud on the 300 gr boo, it'd make a good bear load.

And for the benefit of Changeling and any that wonder the lead, it's plain ACWW, about 10-11 BHN. The 300 is GC'd, tho at 768 FPS it need not be :oops:




I had a reply last night but got a power surge and lost it... :killingpc

I've used the 280gr WFN (as available from Beartooth Bullets) on one bobcat, but did not get a deer with it that year. In my honest opinion, the Lee 300 WFN is a better fit for the 45 Colt Blackhawk. It's the same basic design, but a little heavier, with a little longer bearing surface, and slightly larger meplat. I do get a little better accuracy with the Lee bullet in my Ruger. For hunting, I can't see that the LBT 280 would have any advantage over the Lee 300.

With that said, if I were to buy one, I'd get the 260 for lighter plinking loads (or a LFN in that weight if what Fowler says is true) and use the Lee 300 for hunting. The 280 is a good boolit, but maybe just an in-between-er that's not really a plinker and not really a heavy hunting boolit?

[yondering]

They were REALLY high, tho...
I settled on a load of 16.9 of IMR 4227... Vel was 768 avg... Now the high POI made sense.


Yup, that's why they were high. You got 'er figured right there. If you're shooting a 255gr at ~1000 fps, you'll have to hit ~1150-1200 fps with that 300gr (actually 315) for the same POI.

I haven't used 4227, but from what I've read, you'll have to crank up the volume to "11" to get good velocity from it.

[Changeling]

I have some of the Beartooth 300 g wfn. If you need a few to test I can send them to you. I also have a 280g wfn mold from Veral. I like them both. I went with the shorter wfn because I shoot them out of both a blackhawk convertable and a freedom arms 1997 (the fa requires a shorter nose). I haven't noticed any accuracy difference between the two but I don't shoot from a ransom rest or anything. I shoot open sights plus both guns have shorty barrels so I don't really shoot groups past 50 yds (I will plink at any range). Accuracy was better with both bullets at >1150 fps. I have 800-900 fps loads that "I" can shoot 2 inch groups at 25yds and 1150 + at down to 1.5 inchs. I'm not a group shooter however and do much better aiming at empty shotgun hulls or whatever. I shoot groups seated with the gun between the knees. When I try to set up a rest on a bench I don't get as good a groups. Sorry, I know a better shooter could give you much better info. I have killed deer out to 80 yds with each of these bullets and they did just fine. I could send you a few of each if you want to try em out before buying the mold . jeff

Also...recoil does feel less with the lighter bullet in my smaller 1997. Not sure I notice a difference with the blackhawk (given similar velocities).

Jeff that was a great reply on the subject, thank you very much. The information you gave me was awesome and you don't have to say you're sorry about nothing. Sounds to me like you have pretty well got it together.

Thanks for the kind offer but am getting things under control, however thanks for the concern.

[Fowler]

I found that with the .452 WFNGC bullets shot poorly a low to mid range velocities in my 7 1/2" Bisley, 4 5/8" Bisley, and 4" Smith Mountain gun. Anything under 1100fps would produce at best 4" groups at 25 yards where as a LFN or Keith would always be able to do under 2" groups at the same distance. Now I do my accuracy testing sitting in a Keith reclining position so it is not a bench nor do I expect bench type groups but they are a far more realistic to me for field positions and hunting. I could care less about bench groups, if you can't shoot well from field positions who cares right?

Anyways the disparity in group size only grows at longer ranges. At 50 yards I can shoot 4" to 5" 50 yard groups with Keiths and LFN bullets but WFN would consistently go at least 8" or bigger. At 75 and 100 yards the targets would show the WFN bullets yawing and started to tumble.

I shot at a 300 yard gong one day and with the Keiths the bullets would keep within a foot or two of the target and I knew pretty close to where the bullet would strike based on the sights when the trigger would break. the WFN would not keep with 15 feet of the target and there was certainly no way to know where the bullets would strike from the sights. The bullets were destabilizing and going to hell as the distances grew.

Now my 4 5/8" Bisley loves this bullet over AT LEAST 24gr of H110 and a CCI350 primer and up to 27.0gr but that is redlining a Ruger for sure. I can hold 1 1/2" groups at 25 yards, 3-4" at 50, 6" or so at 75 yards. I have not put this load on paper at 100 or beyond but I have shot a lot of steel plates at longer ranges with it. Past 100 yards I feel, although I have not proven, that it starts to destabilize past 100 yards in a hurry. The same loads in a Keith are 90% as good to 75 yards and appear to be better at ranges past 100 yards but it starts to lead pretty quickly at the 1300fps+ speeds.

Now in most of my other 45 colts, 300gr WFNGC bullets that I cast don't seem to destabilize at the same ranges. My 4 5/8" gun does not seem to care for the 300gr+ bullets as well. Far and away the most accurate 45 colt bullet I have in all of my guns (except the 4 5/8" gun) is my 335gr LFNGC LBT bullet I cast. It does well at any velocity from 850fps to over 1450fps in 5 shooter 45 colts. I think it is far easier to get heavy 45 colt bullets to shoot well over lighter bullets. But I still enjoy shooting lighter bullets more than heavier ones, heck they are more pleasant to shoot.

I am no expert but I have had several WFN bullets give me issues but I have never had trouble getting LFN to shoot well in any of the guns I have tried them in...

[stubshaft]

I shoot the WFN's out of my Ruger BH 45C. I also shoot alot of the Lee 300gr Boolits out of this gun also. But for my money I shoot only the 300gr LFN out of my FA83 in 454 casull. It shoots great hits animals hard and is good for 1 1/2" at 50 yds over the bags.