New to the art..!

[Marcus the Cat]

I'm new here and to casting/reloading.

I have a few questions and I have done a quick search but did not find what I was looking for. Usually forums prefer that you keep your yap shut and dig for past threads to find your answers but after reading the "lurkers" thread I see I am dealing with a different type of fella's here. You guys seem to be far more understanding and helpful, so here goes...

I am about to purchase my first reloading and casting equipment, which will be all Lee equipment. I am on a (very) limited budget which is why I am doing this in the first place, because I can not afford to shoot as much as I would like to and actually need to in order to keep up with the IDPA/USPSA group I just joined.

My first question is do tumble lube bullets from a Lee mold need to be resized before loading them in the brass..?

And just out of curiosity what would be the issues/problems with a bullet cast from a regular Lee mold that was not re-sized or lubed..? Could it even be loaded or fired from your gun..?

I'm talking about .45acp in my case.

Thanks..!

[Crash_Corrigan]

First what is the size of the chamber of your gun?

Second, what size does your alloy cast in the Lee mold?

I have used Lee cast boolits from thier 230 RN TL boolits without sizing in my 1911 without any problems. However they do need to be lubes. LLA does a good job. It is fast and easy.

If however your alloy drops a fatter boolit then you will need to lube the boolit with dawn and water run them thru a Lee push thru sizer and then after rinsing and drying lube them with LLA.

The push thru size costs very little and you can buy LLA from Lars45 at White Lable lubes at the bottom of the site.

Just get a mold and cast a few boolits. If they chamber and fit your gun you are good to go after you lube the boolits. If not then spring for the sizer die and then lube and load 'em up.

Once you start you cannot go back to buying boolits for your gun. It's addictive.

Good luck.

[blackthorn]

Quote "My first question is do tumble lube bullets from a Lee mold need to be resized before loading them in the brass..?"

The first thing to do is to slug your bore because that will tell you what size you need to make your bullets. If your bullets, once loaded into the cases, will chamber easily, there is no need to size them. Just load and shoot!

[Echo]

+1 for the above.

[sqlbullet]

I test load an as-cast bullet and then function check it. If it function checks the same as a factory load, for chamber fit, then I don't bother with sizing.

Once thing to watch for if you don't size is out of round bullets. Occasionally, a small piece of crud will get between the mold blocks and keep them from fully closing. The result will be a bullet that is a few thousandths larger on one axis. Frequently, but not always, these bullets will have nose fins as well. If I think I may have some of these in a given casting lot, I sometimes run them through a push-through lee sizer just to be sure.

[lwknight]

If you are lucky, you can shoot as cast. I like it when my casts can be sized for uniformity.
In the case of my 429-240RN , sizing has no value because it drops .430 and .430 is the minimun that I can use.
In the case of my 358-158 RF mold, it drops .358 boolits and .357 is better for me. So sizing is a plus and I get definate uniformity.

I find that tuble lube works on all pistol boolits for the most part. Unless you shoot full house magnums.

[Shiloh]

+1 to the above post.

MOST chamber fine. It's the odd-ball oversize ones that are sticky in cylinders. This is usually due to operator error. [smilie=1:

I bought a set of these years ago when they were a LOT less money!!

http://www.dillonprecision.com/#/content/p/9/pid/25548/catid/3/Dillon_Handgun_Case_Gages

If it fits one of these, it SHOULD fit your firearm as well.

[Marcus the Cat]

Slug my bore..?

I'm not that mad at it yet..! :wink:

But seriously, I have no idea what you mean. I'll take a guess that this means to take a bullet I cast and check its' fit in the bore of my .45..?

The reason I am asking these questions is because I have not even bought my casting or loading equipment yet and I want to know what I need as opposed to what things are just "nice to have".

For instance, on another board I was told that a bullet puller was an absolute essential piece of equipment to have. I figure if someone is making that many mistakes I can see why. But I realized that the two guys who were telling me this were serious knuckleheads and probably did need a bullet puller if they wanted to correct all the mistakes they make. So I will hold off on buying one until it becomes apparent that I need it. I would say when I have close to 50 rounds sitting in a box because they need to be pulled, then I need it.

Being on a limited budget is what has driven me to this endeavor in the first place, so I can't afford to spend money on things that I will not "need" to use. I need to purchase the bare minimum equipment to get me started casting, loading and shooting. Then after I have saved money down the road I can add to my tools later. I am going to purchase all of my essentials from Midway in one order so that I can save money on shipping and not paying sales taxes locally. So you can see why I want to get this right the first time rather than nickle and dimming myself to death because I made a mistake and didn't get something I need, or bought a bunch of things I rarely or may never use.

Thanks guys..!


Quote "My first question is do tumble lube bullets from a Lee mold need to be resized before loading them in the brass..?"

The first thing to do is to slug your bore because that will tell you what size you need to make your bullets. If your bullets, once loaded into the cases, will chamber easily, there is no need to size them. Just load and shoot!

[gray wolf]

Can you tell us what your budget might be within a few bucks. We may be able to help a little more. Do you have a friend that reloads?
If you don't mind fifty or so bullets sitting around then you don't need a bullet puller.
As a new guy to reloading they tend to add up fast. It would be a + if you got the Lyman cast
bullet reloading book. Also what bullet metal are you going to use. The questions you have asked are very valid good questions---but at the same time indicate that you have a learning curve to overcome.
What scale do you think you like--I am sure one or more of us have used it and can help.
What about a good set of calipers? to measure your bullets. What are your thoughts on dispensing the powder. What powder have you given a thought about.
I don't think anyone here would say they know everything BUT the combined knowledge here could launch a space shuttle, And at the very least but not last your safety is our concern. So ask away.
Perhaps if you told us what your order from Midway would look like we could go over all the uses of each item and help you understand there purpose.
Yes there are things you don't need to start with but there are things you should not leave out, and with the materials and tools you choose to acquire you should have a full working knowledge of them.
To start reloading And casting all at once is quite a big step.
Difficult but not impossible.
Best of luck to you and I hope you get the answers you are looking for.


GW.
[/U]

[bohokii]

i for one think it is strange to ask what it the size of your guns bore

i got like 6

9mms i load for and they are all 9mm my bullets sized .356 seem to be ok in all of them i got to clean some lead out when i get hope but i figure thats just the tradeoff of using lead

it just sounds weird to make a one off cartridge for just an individual gun

do reloaders that have multiple 308 rifles have loads for each one (like this 308 is for savage only this one is for the remington and this one is for the springfield

[SciFiJim]

Item Number Description Price
480380 Lee Reloader Single Stage Press Kit $31.99
Comes with a reloading manual

728999 Lee Ram Prime Priming Unit for Single Stage Press $9.79
Got to prime the brass

661032 Lee Carbide 3-Die Set 45 ACP $25.99
Comes with sizer/decapper, expander, seater/crimper

604242 Frankford Arsenal Electronic Caliper 6" Stainless Steel $21.99
Check your cartridge overall length (COL) for safety and consistency

712103 Lee Safety Magnetic Powder Scale 100 Grain Capacity $21.99
To weigh your powder charges with

116429 Lee Lube and Size Kit 452 Diameter $15.49
Do yourself a favor and get this. If you are going to be competing, you will need this for consistent size boolits. Also comes with your first bottle of Alox.

776747 Lee 2-Cavity Bullet Mold 452-230-TC 45 ACP $19.79
Truncated cone boolits work with more pistols than just about anything else. You don't need a boolit with tumble lube grooves to use tumble lube. Alox came first, then tumble lube grooves.

Total $147.03 plus shipping


If you shoot in competition, it won't take you long before you decide that a progressive press is a must have. Also if you shoot cast in competition you will wind up buying a 6 cavity mold. Your greatest expense will be primers and powder.

You can wash your brass instead of tumbling them to clean. Just make sure to decap first and also make sure that they are dry before reloading. (Do a search on "washing brass", there are a lot of methods)

A bullet puller can be made from a piece of 2x4, a strip of wood and a screw. Drill the outer hole first with a 1 inch wood boring bit, deep enough to hold your shellholder. The hole in the middle was drilled with a 1/2 inch bit, almost all of the way through the 2x4. Place the loaded round in the shell holder, insert nose down in the hole, cover with wood strip to hold in place and whack on concrete. Use an old dried out piece of wood and you can recover your powder without getting sap or moisture in it.

http://i596.photobucket.com/albums/tt47/SciFiJim_photobucket/100_2587.jpg
http://i596.photobucket.com/albums/tt47/SciFiJim_photobucket/100_2588.jpg

[Marcus the Cat]

I didn't want to post the equipment I am going to purchase because when I did this on another forum, all I got was ridiculed and opinions from most telling me to buy a Dillon that I can't afford. But since you guys seem to be different.

Here goes... (these are all Midway links)

Lee 4 Hole Turret Press with Auto Index Deluxe Kit (http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productnumber=622290)

Lee Deluxe Carbide 4-Die Set 45 ACP (http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productnumber=242098)

Lee 2-Cavity Bullet Mold 452-200-RF 45 ACP, 45 Auto Rim, 45 Colt (Long Colt) (452 Diameter) 200 Grain Flat Nose (http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productnumber=789762)

Lee Melter Furnace 110 Volt (http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productnumber=476462)

Lee Lead Dipper (http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productnumber=161177)

I am either going to wash my brass with a bucket and a solution (would orderless paint thinner damage the brass?) or buy a tumbler set up from Sportmansguide.com.

If all that sizing and lubing does is keep my barrel cleaner, then I will skip it for now and just clean my .45 after every time I take it to the range like I always do. But if it drastically affects accuracy or can do damage to my barrel then I will get this tumble lube mold since from what I've been told the bullets do not require "sizing".

Lee 2-Cavity Bullet Mold TL452-230 45 ACP, 45 Auto Rim, 45 Colt (Long Colt) (452 Diameter) 230 Grain Tumble Lube Truncated Cone (http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productnumber=149918)

I just wanted to go with the other mold due to it being heavier than a 180gr and lighter than the 230gr, kind of a happy medium in my opinion. And I have some ideas on experimenting with the 200gr bullets after they are cast. But that's later on down the road.

Thanks again guys..! :bigsmyl2:

[Marcus the Cat]

I really appreciate all the effort you put into this post, and not to leave out all you other guys and your replies too..!

Thanks..!:mrgreen:


Item Number Description Price
480380 Lee Reloader Single Stage Press Kit $31.99
Comes with a reloading manual

728999 Lee Ram Prime Priming Unit for Single Stage Press $9.79
Got to prime the brass

661032 Lee Carbide 3-Die Set 45 ACP $25.99
Comes with sizer/decapper, expander, seater/crimper

604242 Frankford Arsenal Electronic Caliper 6" Stainless Steel $21.99
Check your cartridge overall length (COL) for safety and consistency

712103 Lee Safety Magnetic Powder Scale 100 Grain Capacity $21.99
To weigh your powder charges with

116429 Lee Lube and Size Kit 452 Diameter $15.49
Do yourself a favor and get this. If you are going to be competing, you will need this for consistent size boolits. Also comes with your first bottle of Alox.

776747 Lee 2-Cavity Bullet Mold 452-230-TC 45 ACP $19.79
Truncated cone boolits work with more pistols than just about anything else. You don't need a boolit with tumble lube grooves to use tumble lube. Alox came first, then tumble lube grooves.

Total $147.03 plus shipping


If you shoot in competition, it won't take you long before you decide that a progressive press is a must have. Also if you shoot cast in competition you will wind up buying a 6 cavity mold. Your greatest expense will be primers and powder.

You can wash your brass instead of tumbling them to clean. Just make sure to decap first and also make sure that they are dry before reloading. (Do a search on "washing brass", there are a lot of methods)

A bullet puller can be made from a piece of 2x4, a strip of wood and a screw. Drill the outer hole first with a 1 inch wood boring bit, deep enough to hold your shellholder. The hole in the middle was drilled with a 1/2 inch bit, almost all of the way through the 2x4. Place the loaded round in the shell holder, insert nose down in the hole, cover with wood strip to hold in place and whack on concrete. Use an old dried out piece of wood and you can recover your powder without getting sap or moisture in it.

http://i596.photobucket.com/albums/tt47/SciFiJim_photobucket/100_2587.jpg
http://i596.photobucket.com/albums/tt47/SciFiJim_photobucket/100_2588.jpg

[Marcus the Cat]

BY the way, I already have a set of electronic calipers and use them regularly for all kinds of things.

I love em'..!

[Firebricker]

Look's like a good equipment list to me. That will get you off to a good start and you always add as you go. BTW welcome to the site. FB

[mroliver77]

There are a lot of loading gear "snobs" out there. A few here but mostly nice snobs. ;) Personally I dont care what you use. Looks like the list you have will work just fine.
You will HAVE to lube and mebbe, mebbe not size. The Lee liquid alox lube should work fine for you if you follow the directions. I would get the loading setup and buy or borrow a few boolits and see where you stand as to feeding, size etc. This is a tinkerers hobby. If you like standing in the shop for hours doing some mindless repetitive "therapy" then you will prolly like it. I personally started casting with a steel sauce pan, a hot plate , a Lyman ladle and a tl.452 mould.
You can wash brass in a light acidic solution to clean it. Polishing is not necessary but makes you feel good.
Keep us posted as we are a helpfull and giving bunch here.
Jay

[SciFiJim]

I ladle pour with a stainless steel saucepan that I got at Goodwill for $2 and a stainless steel ladle that I got at the dollar store for a dollar and an old BBQ side burner. You might check out the thrift stores in your area and save yourself $35 to save up for a bottom pour pot.

I have the 452-200 RF mold. I find it shoots low for me. YMMV. I am exploring using a heavier boolit to raise the point of impact.


Unlike other forums that have reloading gear snobs, here you will find frugality snobs who specialize in doing something as cheaply as possible. [smilie=p:

[Marcus the Cat]

Oh man..!

I think I will fit in around here just fine..! ;)


I ladle pour with a stainless steel saucepan that I got at Goodwill for $2 and a stainless steel ladle that I got at the dollar store for a dollar and an old BBQ side burner. You might check out the thrift stores in your area and save yourself $35 to save up for a bottom pour pot.

I have the 452-200 RF mold. I find it shoots low for me. YMMV. I am exploring using a heavier boolit to raise the point of impact.


Unlike other forums that have reloading gear snobs, here you will find frugality snobs who specialize in doing something as cheaply as possible. [smilie=p:

[Marcus the Cat]

I'm going to go to the Wallgreens and CVS to see if I can find one of those open coil hotplates for $10 or less. I already found a perfect cast iron 10" skillet at Academy for $5 and a couple $1.50 large spoons at Walmart to use as a scraper and poorer.

[Marcus the Cat]

I have the 452-200 RF mold. I find it shoots low for me. YMMV. I am exploring using a heavier boolit to raise the point of impact.

Ok, what do you think about this heavier bullet (mold). Is 255gr too much for .45acp..?

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=775664

[Marcus the Cat]

And oh yeah...

What's the deal with "boolits" as opposed to bullets..?

Is this just a casting slang kind of "thang"..?

[wills]

And oh yeah...

What's the deal with "boolits" as opposed to bullets..?

Is this just a casting slang kind of "thang"..?

It is a term of art which distinguishes the cognoscenti from the unwashed masses.

[wills]

9mms i load for and they are all 9mm my bullets sized .356 seem to be ok in all of them i got to clean some lead out when i get hope but i figure thats just the tradeoff of using lead

it just sounds weird to make a one off cartridge for just an individual gun



That leading could be caused by the boolit being too small, too hard, or both.

Cartridges that fit all your guns, are called factory loads.

[SciFiJim]

That's where the tinkering part of this hobby comes in. What may be valid with my pistol may not necessarily be valid with yours. The .45acp was originally designed to fire a 230gr bullet. 255gr is 10% heavier. If you want to try it start with WAY reduced loads of Bullseye powder and work up cautiously. I think I saw somewhere that Bullseye was the original production powder for the .45acp.

As for a 255gr boolit, I am going to be trying one of THESE (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=56612&highlight=454424) from a group buy here.

[Tazman1602]

I really appreciate all the effort you put into this post, and not to leave out all you other guys and your replies too..!

Thanks..!:mrgreen:

You will NOT be unhappy with that mold that SciFiJim listed for you. I cast the same bullet but in a lube groove design and use hard lube 'cause that's what I gots.

NOTHING wrong with liquid alox lubed tumble lube bullets and *most* of the time you don't need to size unless you're getting out of round bullets.

If you'd like to try some of the 230 grain hard lubed sized .452 PM me and I'll send you a couple dozen gratis, the guys here have helped me to NO end and I'm bound to pay it forward. Don't have any Tumble Lube (TL) 45's right now though but someone here may.

"Slugging" your barrel simply involves taking a soft lead slug and shoving it through the barrel with a rawhide mallet and a series of wood dowels. NOT hard to do and WELL worth the knowing what size your barrel *really* is, trust me on that one, you'll learn more as you get to casting and loading....

MY ADVICE? Leave this forum. RUN. Take your checkbook WITH you and NEVER come back.

........I only had a couple of molds when I found this place a few months back and now I've got...................um, a "few"????

LOL, WELCOME!

[MtGun44]

There is a very high likelihood of leading due to undersized boolits if you
are sizing .356 for multiple 9mms. Most Euro9s need a .357 diam for accy and
no leading. Many US 9s are OK with .356. If you are getting leading, you likely
have too small a boolit for the barrel.

YMMV.

Bill

[Marcus the Cat]

Here's another newbee stupid question, why would you reduce the powder charge to push a larger bullet, wouldn't you need at least the standard charge to get that sucker going..? Does this have something to do with causing more pressure in the chamber or barrel than it was designed to handle..? I thought only increasing your powder charge caused issues like this..?

Also, you said the 200gr bullet shot low for you and you were going to try a 255gr to raise your point of impact. This goes against everything I have heard to date. From what I understand a smaller lighter bullet has a flatter straighter trajectory and is inherently more accurate than a heavier one. So how would increasing the weight of your round solve your "striking low" problem..?


That's where the tinkering part of this hobby comes in. What may be valid with my pistol may not necessarily be valid with yours. The .45acp was originally designed to fire a 230gr bullet. 255gr is 10% heavier. If you want to try it start with WAY reduced loads of Bullseye powder and work up cautiously. I think I saw somewhere that Bullseye was the original production powder for the .45acp.

As for a 255gr boolit, I am going to be trying one of THESE (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=56612&highlight=454424) from a group buy here.

[Marcus the Cat]

Now this is the 3rd time I have heard this and I am still scratching my head over it. So an undersized bullet will accumulate more lead residue in your barrel than one that is perfect sized or even too big..?

Is that because it "technically" rattles its' way down the length of the barrel..? From what I understand this happens with undersized bullets or "shot out" barrels and really screws up your accuracy, right..?



There is a very high likelihood of leading due to undersized boolits if you
are sizing .356 for multiple 9mms. Most Euro9s need a .357 diam for accy and
no leading. Many US 9s are OK with .356. If you are getting leading, you likely
have too small a boolit for the barrel.

YMMV.

Bill

[docone31]

Pilgrim,
An undersized load "skates" down the bore. The potential for gas cutting exists, there will be drift between the lands.
Even though there will be some obturation, it will not be enough.
A 9mm, sized to .357, will probably perform well. At .356, it is a duck shoot. Might or might not.
At .355, no way. The reason is, a copper jacketed load has less flow to the projectile. The copper hardens along the rifleing path. Copper will deposit, but it will be microscopic and take repeated firings to observe.
With the cartridge, on firing, the boolitt engraves in the rifleing, then obturates with resistance of the bore. Once to size, it exits.
If you slug your bore(s), you will notice an hard resistance, then easy movement within the bore. The same is felt by the charge during the firing cycle. How hard the boolitt is, is not a factor in leading, per-se.
I use water quenched wheel weight alloy for my pistols, both 9mm, 45ACP, and .357. I pan lube, and make my own lube. I use push thru sizers.
In my rifles, I use water quenched, with zinc, paper patched boolitts.
With my .303 British for example, I find .314 to be a wonderful load. .3135, Miserable. I mean miserable. There is a .005 deviation, that produces 20ft of berm, whereas the .314 gives me a very tight group at 100yds. Sizing makes that much difference.
Hang in there, keep asking, you will get it in time. It will be comfortable for you also.

[SciFiJim]

Here's another newbee stupid question, why would you reduce the powder charge to push a larger bullet, wouldn't you need at least the standard charge to get that sucker going..? Does this have something to do with causing more pressure in the chamber or barrel than it was designed to handle..? I thought only increasing your powder charge caused issues like this..?


The way to increase pressure it to increase powder or decrease case space. A larger bullet will reduce the space available in the case, therefore increasing pressure with the same powder charge. Bullseye is about the safest powder I know of to reduce. It can be reduced to enough to barely get the boolit out of the barrel if you want. Probable 1/10 of a grain would do that. Just the primer might get it out but I wouldn't try it. Other than getting a boolit stuck in the barrel (which you should watch out for anyway), the danger lies in the other direction. Also, the conventional wisdom (which is safest in this case), is that when working up new loads, reduce your charge and work back up carefully.


Also, you said the 200gr bullet shot low for you and you were going to try a 255gr to raise your point of impact. This goes against everything I have heard to date. From what I understand a smaller lighter bullet has a flatter straighter trajectory and is inherently more accurate than a heavier one. So how would increasing the weight of your round solve your "striking low" problem..?

This is caused by the amount of time the boolit remains in the barrel after the recoil starts. The smaller boolit will exit sooner, because of faster speed. The larger boolit will take longer to exit, allowing the barrel to rise a little higher during recoil and raising the aim point before exiting. It sounds kind of counter-intuitive, but it works.

[Marcus the Cat]

This is caused by the amount of time the boolit remains in the barrel after the recoil starts. The smaller boolit will exit sooner, because of faster speed. The larger boolit will take longer to exit, allowing the barrel to rise a little higher during recoil and raising the aim point before exiting. It sounds kind of counter-intuitive, but it works.

Oh I get what you're saying now...

But I was always under the impression that it was the energy of the bullet actually leaving the barrel that caused the muzzle to jump, not the rearward motion of recoil..?

I guess ya' learn something new every day..!

[SciFiJim]

mass x velocity = mass x velocity. It all works together.

[geargnasher]

i for one think it is strange to ask what it the size of your guns bore

i got like 6

9mms i load for and they are all 9mm my bullets sized .356 seem to be ok in all of them i got to clean some lead out when i get hope but i figure thats just the tradeoff of using lead

it just sounds weird to make a one off cartridge for just an individual gun

do reloaders that have multiple 308 rifles have loads for each one (like this 308 is for savage only this one is for the remington and this one is for the springfield

If you're only talking 9mm, you would be right unless you have a gun which is way over-or under-sized in the bore. To me, and probably most, if you want your guns to shoot straight you sort brass, cast, and load for each gun individually like it's the only gun you own. It's not BRAND specific, I have several "pairs" of "identical" guns, one is even sequential in serial #, and each has its unique quirks that must be taken into account when reloading.

I have two 1911-style .45 acps, and one has a .451" bore like it's supposed to while the other one is .4523". .452" boolits shoot great in one and lead the other one like crazy, as we would expect.

The best advice for someone just starting out is slug the bore (do a search here or check out the thread at Shooters.com), and cast a few boolits from the mould you have, and see what they do. You need .001" over groove diameter, at least.

The Lee sizer kit should still come with a bottle of LLA included, that will lube a lot of boolits.

I have four .45 Colt guns and I load different weight, style, and size of boolit for each as well as three different powders, two different lubes, and each gun has it's own brass because it is all neck-sized in a carbide die with an extra-long decapping pin. One gun really likes 50-50 ww/pure and one insists on WDWW. The short answer, even for pistols, is if you want it to shoot straight, very straight, you have to find out exactly what works in your gun. It matters.

Now many of us who have been doing this a while can get a new 1911 .45, take a known good boolit out of our library of casting, seat it to a known common OAL in a deprimed case, cycle it manually through the action and have a pretty good idea whether or not it's going to work. I also know if any of us had perfect results the first time we tried reloading or casting by guessing we were extemely fortunate.


Gear

[geargnasher]

Oh I get what you're saying now...

But I was always under the impression that it was the energy of the bullet actually leaving the barrel that caused the muzzle to jump, not the rearward motion of recoil..?

I guess ya' learn something new every day..!
Marcus,

Recoil impulse begins as soon as the primer ignites. As was said, the heavier boolit and/or slowest powder will have a higher point of impact at short ranges because of where the muzzle is pointed when the boolit exits.

I would say you will be quite happy with the Lee products you mentioned, but I would add the following:

>Auto disk Pro powder measure.
>Large and small (both in one kit) primer feed trays to keep you from touching the primers directly.
>Auto-disk powder measure riser, an essential for clearing the other dies and the primer feed tray.
>Get an RCBS or Lyman case mouth deburring tool, the Lee version is junk and you will have better luck with cast boolits deburring the inside case mouths just a bit.
>The Lee casting ladle is pretty much junk, too, you would do just as well with a modified dime store spoon. What you really want is a Rowell ladle, such as sold by our banner sponsor Rotometals or Lyman.
>If you get a Lee bottom-pour pot you can skip the ladle-pouring and hassle. If yo want production with good fillout in an aluminum Lee mould the bottom pour is the only way to go. Ladles tend to slow the process down a bit and that will let teh mould blocks run too cool in many cases. Ladles are more for paced, precision work.

Years from now, you will look back on this simple list and laugh, or maybe cry, as you gaze upon the piles of equipment you will have accumulated. When I first started I got a single stage press and basic reloading set for Christmas, powder and bullets (jacketed commercial) for my birthday, I bought my own dies in three calibers and a brick each of large rifle and pistol primers and thought I would be set for life :smile:. Ha. Ha ha. Ha ha haaaaaaaaaaa.

Welcome to the addiction!

Gear

[Daddyfixit]

Ok, what do you think about this heavier bullet (mold). Is 255gr too much for .45acp..?

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=775664

I wouldn't use anything over 230gr. If you check around you'll find most comp shooters use the 200gr SWC

[Bullshop Junior]

I'm new here and to casting/reloading.

I have a few questions and I have done a quick search but did not find what I was looking for. Usually forums prefer that you keep your yap shut and dig for past threads to find your answers but after reading the "lurkers" thread I see I am dealing with a different type of fella's here. You guys seem to be far more understanding and helpful, so here goes...

I am about to purchase my first reloading and casting equipment, which will be all Lee equipment. I am on a (very) limited budget which is why I am doing this in the first place, because I can not afford to shoot as much as I would like to and actually need to in order to keep up with the IDPA/USPSA group I just joined.

My first question is do tumble lube bullets from a Lee mold need to be resized before loading them in the brass..?

And just out of curiosity what would be the issues/problems with a bullet cast from a regular Lee mold that was not re-sized or lubed..? Could it even be loaded or fired from your gun..?

I'm talking about .45acp in my case.

Thanks..!
Well, with no lube it will get leading BAD.

[milkman]

Marcus

I rarely use a bullet puller on cast bullets. I remove the die from the press, place the loaded round on the ram and raise it so that it protrudes above the press, grab the boolit with pliers or diagonal cutters and lower the ram to slip the boolit out. Just remelt the booit and start over.

In rethinking my post, I only load rifle cartridges and don't know if the shorter pistol case would be long enough to reach the top of the press.

Milkman

[1874Sharps]

Marcus T C,

Welcome to the forum and the great hobby and sport of reloading! There is much great info in the previous posts that I will not repeat, but I will say that you will get a great value with Lee products. Most all of the equipment will work quite well, even if the gear is not the most expensive, or the highest of quality. You do not have to start out big, or even go big years later.

If you do buy an open element type hotplate it is a really good idea to protect it with a piece of sheet metal or such, as a splash of lead (which happens frequently) that puddles in the coil will burn it out in a fairly short time. I found this one out the hard way.

If you wish to wring the most accuracy potential out of your gun, slugging the barrel is a good thing to do, as it will give you baseline data of what size of bullet to start out trying (usually one thousandth over bore). It has been my experience that almost always the Lee molds will give satisfactory (if not great) accuracy without sizing. The Lee tumble lube (TL) boolits are very easy to lube and the 230 grain TL has worked very well for me out of my 1911 45 ACP with a 4.0 grain Bullseye charge with no sizing.

You can become as exact and scientific as you wish with this sport and buy very costly equipment as well. Mel Gibson in "The Patriot" had only a few tin soldiers, a mold and ladle and look at some of the shots he pulled off! Of course, he had a movie director helping him out.

[blackthorn]

Fit is king!!! If you get "fit" right a lot of potential problems just never happen! Here is some info on "slugging" your bore and some more on chamber "casting" Sorry for the long post. Hope this helps.

While slugging the barrel is a relatively simple process, it is important to have certain aspects of the process clearly understood. The inner workings of the firearm are easily damaged and not so easily fixed. With this in mind, while steel rod of the proper size is readily available, and can be used, even when it is taped every couple of inches, it poses the most threat to the firearm in terms of potential damage. Brass rod, although more expensive, is the better choice. Wooden doweling can be found in appropriate sizes but it has a tendency to split and jam pieces along with the lead slug tightly in the bore. If you must use wood, use straight grained hardwood doweling cut into 6” pieces to minimize the chance of breakage/jams.

Other than making a throat/leade slug, it is usually best to slug the barrel on a rifle, starting from the breech end as the throat and leade will act as a funnel. Use of brass “half hard” rod to drive the slug is best. A good hardware store will have brass rods in 3’ (or longer) lengths. It's not as cheap as steel but you can use it the way it is. Use 3/16” rod for the 6mm and 6.5mm. The 1/4" size can be used for 7mm up to about .375". For bores larger than that you will do better with a .375" OD rod. Steel rods can be used and should be readily available from your local hardware store. Some carry only 3' pieces which will also be fine initially. If you decide to use steel, to protect the barrel you can wrap a ring of duct tape around the rod at the very end, and then at intervals of about 1-1/2" along the length remember to make sure the rods you will use for slugging are taped where they meet any part of the barrel, especially the crown. Or you could wrap a single layer in a spiral around the rod from end to end. Filing a blunt point on the rod will help center it on the slug and prevent the leading edges of the rod from touching the barrel.

If possible, buy a 6’ long rod because you need to have a rod long enough to reach through the rifle's action if driving a slug from the breech end. If you have any old military surplus rifles to slug with a 29" barrel you will need a rod at least 40" long. Buy 2 lengths of 3’X the appropriate OD (or one 6’ length, from which you will cut 40 inches) then wrap a ring of duct tape around the longer (steel) rod at either end and at about 2" intervals down the length to keep it off the bore. As for the other piece of rod, cut a 3" piece off to use as a starter rod (these two lengths will handle 80% or more of the rifles you will deal with). Set the remainder aside, it will come in handy later on. Wrap a layer of duct tape around either end as you did on the long rod. If you are using brass rod or wood doweling the tape is not needed.

Chamber cast:
A partial alternative to “slugging” is to make a chamber “cast”. This process can be adapted to “cast” an image of the barrel at the muzzle as well as at the chamber/leade/throat and a small portion of the bore. These “casts” can be made of a mix of sulpher alone or slupher and graphite or they can be cast using Cerrosafe. The downside of casting is that you cannot get the same picture (“feel”) of the full length of the barrel interior as you can by slugging, but there is no reason you cannot do both.

If you're trying to determine the dimensions of a (fixed) rifle chamber, “casting” is the way to go because no amount of reasonable pounding will reliably swage the lead to truly fill the chamber. There is however some danger if you try to pour a longer than practical cast! Do not make the mistake of thinking that simply pouring in enough material to make the casting longer in an effort to get an accurate reading of the bore will be successful, because if you pour in enough material so that a twist becomes fully engaged, once that casting is into the rifling it will take a lot of excessive pounding to get it back out. If you pour in that much material, you will probably wind up melting it back out! So plug the bore just slightly ahead of the point where the rifling begins.

CERROSAFE:

While the makers of Cerrosafe produce several different alloy combinations, the one we are concerned with consists of the following percentages: Bismuth - 42.50, Lead – 37.70, Tin – 11.30, Cadmium – 8.50. Note: Cadmium is very toxic so use good hygiene and avoid breathing the fumes. We all know the harmful effects of inhaling or digesting lead. Cadmium, is even worse. Its compounds are extremely toxic even in low concentrations, and will bioaccumulate in organisms and ecosystems. So use similar but even greater caution when working with Cerrosafe as you would when handling lead.

Notes:
 Melts between 158 and 190 degrees Fahrenheit
 Should be melted in a clean iron ladle without direct flame on the product.
 The chamber being cast should be cleaned thoroughly and a thin coat of oil or graphite applied.
 Reusable

Contraction - expansion factor versus time, after casting, measured in inches per square inch:
 2 minutes -.0004"
 6 minutes -.0007"
 30 minutes -.0009"
 1 hour +-.0000"
 2 hours +.0016"
 5 hours +.0018"
 7 hours +.0019"
 10 hours +.0019"
 24 hours +.0022"
 96 hours +.0025"
 200 hours +.0025"
 500 hours +.0025"

Basic Instructions:
 Plug the bore about one inch ahead of the throat of the firearm using an appropriate size cleaning patch.
 Pour the molten alloy directly into the chamber until full and allow it to cool, it will turn a shiny silver color. As soon as it has cooled enough that it is no longer a liquid (and doesn't present a burn hazard), run a rod into the bore from the muzzle and tap the casting out of the chamber. Take care not to overfill the chamber as the alloy will then run into the locking lug area, making removal extremely difficult. Any recessed areas can be plugged with modeling clay prior to pouring.
 During the first 30 minutes of cooling Cerrosafe shrinks and then begins to expand. At the end of one hour it should be "exactly" chamber size. The Cerrosafe will manage to find its way into some pretty tight places so it is easier to have the rifle stripped to the frame prior to commencing the job. Clean the chamber, lightly oil it (then wipe it out with a patch), plug the barrel at a point that allows the formation of about an inch of rifling to be included in the cast, and cast it.

Cerrosafe's melting point is below the boiling point of water so you can use a plastic funnel with a short length of vinyl tubing to get it into the chamber. The tubing should be just long enough to reach the chamber with the funnel set through the back of the receiver. Heat the Cerrosafe in a skillet ashtray, or other container with a pouring spout, over a heat source set on low. As soon as the cast has set up, push the “plug-patch” along with the casting out of the receiver with a wooden dowel or brass rod.

When making a Cerrosafe cast of a high-wall rifle, the action must be disassembled and, depending on when the cast is measured, a mathematical adjustment (see above chart) may be necessary due to material expansion. Also, when using Cerrosafe to determine case OAL, headspace must be measured separately, which can be somewhat complicated.

An alternative to using Cerrosafe or the “pounded slug” method is to make a sulphur/graphite cast. To do this, make up a mixture containing a ratio of approximately two-thirds sulphur to one-third powdered graphite. Sulphur requires a much higher melting temperature than Cerrosafe but it has the advantage of neither growing nor shrinking once the cast has set.

A 4-lb. sack of sulphur can be had cheaply at the garden centre. Clean and degrease the chamber, put a paper plug about 1/2" into the rifling, drop a piece of cotton string into the chamber, do not use synthetics, have a wood dowel longer than the barrel and of smaller but as close as possible to the inside diameter on hand. Place some sulphur in a small pan with a pour spout, using, preferably an electric hot plate, slowly heat the sulphur until it melts, do not let it catch fire, the smoke is poisonous. Stir in the powdered graphite and pour in enough of the liquid mix to just fill the chamber, wait until the cast is completely hard, this will depend on how large the chamber is, which governs the mass that has to cool down. Carefully push on the cast with the dowel while firmly pulling on the string; it should come out easily once it starts to move.

As noted, unlike Cerrosafe, sulphur cast dimensions of the chamber do not change at all over time, so how soon you measure the cast is not important. Sulphur is one of the few elements that do not change dimensions when going from a liquid to a solid state. Casts made with sulphur do not change shape or dimensions even after many years. Molten sulphur can also be used to set machinery anchor bolts in concrete.

[gray wolf]

DING---DING----DING

School is in session--WoW what a great group of guy's---
I think I even learned something. Holly cow --say it ain't so.

I told you here goes a space shuttle launch.
Man you guy's are coming out of the closet on this one. I think I will make up some diplomas. for you all. What we need now is a thread on how to improve my spelling LOL.
I see a sticky here someplace.
Little cricket if you slow down and absorb you will learn Soooo much here.
Ask about set back will ya. There are some things about it I need to know --

I told my wife about this thread and she said wow it's like we have a new baby and your friends are great. Ok men lets bring up the kids so we be proud--
Home schooling at cast bullets. You got to love it.



GW.

[Crash_Corrigan]

Re: sizing to match the bore of the gun. I have a EAA Witness Match Elite 9 mm that does very well with cast at .356. I also have a Browning Hi Power that when fed .356 boolits in lead will bind up and stop functioning after about 30 rounds.

The cases are all sooty and the action is filthy because the smaller diameter boolits are allowing gas to escape around the edges of the boolit and the pressure is lowered prematurely and when the action cycles large amounts of crud is deposited everywhere.

For this gun I use a RCBS RBL mold and make a boolit that comes out of the mold at .359. I then size it down to .358 and assemble the round. The last step includes a Lee Factory Crimp Die that sizes the completed round down a mite to about .3575. This is what really makes that Browning shine and produce decent accuracy and reliability. It also works better in the EAA Witness.

Pretty much every gun is different. An accurate chamber casting with cerro safe is an easy project and will tell you a lot about the kind and size of ammo you will need to make.

A friend of mine and I have the same single shot Winchester rifle. The serial numbers are about 15 numbers apart. The freebore on his rifle is about 3/8" ahead of the nose of the loaded round and mine is just about 1/8 ". Mind you this is the same model rifle, a twin and yet they chambers are different. I need to seat my boolits deeper into the case than he does.

[wills]

Here's another newbee stupid question, why would you reduce the powder charge to push a larger bullet, wouldn't you need at least the standard charge to get that sucker going..?

The best thing for you to do is buy a good reloading manual, such as the Speer Manual, and read it cover to cover, several times.