CA WW ban a Temporary plus??

[cbrick]

Maybe.

They have been getting more and more difficult to get for the past few years and as of January 1st lead WW are a complete no-no in California.

Going on the assumption that the tire shops could no longer re-use the weights (or aren't supposed to) perhaps they could be easier to get, seems I may have been right. I've been going to tire shops in the area the last couple of days and have gotten weights from 5 out of six shops. I even got a full bucket from a place that had refused to give up a single weight in the past.

Tire shops in CA will continue to get lead weights off of tires for some time and they have to replace them with non-lead weights. It seems that right now in CA is the best time in the past few years to get WW, shops seem far more willing right now to give up the lead weights. If your in CA I suggest you double up your efforts and get them while you can.

Rick

[9.3X62AL]

Gotta try that. Today. With the added encouragement that I'll meet or beat the scrap dealer's prices, which I'm sure took a dive now that lead-based WWs are verboten. That "Law of Unintended Consequences" is a blade that cuts in many directions--just like "3-Strikes" and the condor protection bullhonky.

[sqlbullet]

Pure economic theory holds that reduced demand will lower price.

However, at some point the reduced demand causes production levels to fall below optimum economies of scale, result in a price increase as the fixed costs are distributed across a smaller total pool.

I don't know the lead market well enough to say if there is much demand driven price inflation. If there is, this will be good both long term and short term. If not, I would guess it will have a short term positive effect for Californians who cast, but little impact on the rest of us.

I do fear that a national ban, of if the bans spread from California they way they often do, it will have a long term negative effect.

Currently WW represent a very good, low-cost alternative to retail alloy stocks. If they disappear, then demand for retail alloy stock will increase. While at the wholesale level the cost may fall, since WW mfg aren't buying large qty's anymore, retailers in our rarefied market will see an increase, and will face less competition.

Fewer and fewer scrap lead sources I fear will have a negative effect on the cost of our hobby, long term.

[Bucks Owin]

I do fear that a national ban, of if the bans spread from California they way they often do, it will have a long term negative effect.

Fewer and fewer scrap lead sources I fear will have a negative effect on the cost of our hobby, long term. Absolutely. And rest assured, the big tire outlets aren't gonna use two different kinds of weights, steel (or whatever) for Kalifornia and lead for everybody else. EVERYONE better get ready to see lead WWs disappear IMO :evil:...JMO, Dennis

[bohokii]

i dont know why tire companys dont jsut make balanced tires they could make them with big rubber lugs inside they trim to balance

and then the wheel makers could just balance their rims or the tire instaler could do it once

[sqlbullet]

I think you will find the interaction is more complex than than. A balanced tire, inflated on a balanced rim, may still require balancing.

The variations are already very small. Typically 2-3 oz of weight will balance out the assembly. This is a variation of about 1/3 of a percent. And, it will change as you use the tire, becuase of uneven wear. Even if the tire/wheel were balanced perfectly when new, by 10,000 miles it requires a re-balance.

The existing system is perfectly acceptable. The improvements I could see would be in increasing the instrumentation on a vehicle. It could then tell you when and where to add a weight yourself.

[Tazman1602]

i dont know why tire companys dont jsut make balanced tires they could make them with big rubber lugs inside they trim to balance

and then the wheel makers could just balance their rims or the tire instaler could do it once

Because no matter what you do, no two tires are going to wear the same, that's why we've always used lead WW's for balance. I've had tires on my truck have as much as 1.5" of difference in circumference after many thousands of miles also.

Also if they had to make balanced tires it would cost about $400 a tire and I can't afford that...........

Art

[cbrick]

Anyone ever have the tire shop sort the weights for you?

There is a truck tire shop near me that I have never been able to get a single weight from. Last summer he told me that on slow days he has his guys sort them for useful weights. Yesterday I got a full bucket from him and I mean really full. This morning I sorted and smelted this bucket. There was less than 1 pound combined of stick-on and zinc or steel weights, not a typo, less than 1 pound in the entire bucket. Not a single valve stem or cigarrette butt. I sorted in my usual anal way and snipped each weight with wire cutters and examined each weight and was very carefull about what went into the dutch oven.

As anal as I am about inspecting and sorting them I probably loose some good weights but I have confidence and piece of mind about what goes into my casting pot. Because of this the most I have ever gotten from a single bucket is about 115 pounds, usually around 90-95 pounds if the bucket is full.

I cast into 5 pound ingots and when all was said and done . . . 155 pounds out of the same bucket. Amazing!

Rick

[BSkerj]

I recieved 100 lbs worth of wheel weights yesterday ,( I weighed them and saw that they were exactly 100lbs) so I was curious to find out how much was steel, junk, etc. The place I get them from is a big tire chain outlet that went to all steel already. After smelting them all last night I got exactly 72 -1lb ingots out of the 100 lbs. Still not to bad, but I have been noticing that I have been getting more and more steel from this dealer. Hopefully I can get a few more months worth before they have all steel from return customers .
Rick, sounds like you have a great source. Hopefully they won't dry up!!

[Charlie Sometimes]

Problem with the CA ban- after you get the WW or lead, where are you gonna use them?
They're banning using lead bullets or shot anywhere near anywhere around condors, migratory birds, the state legislature, and such.
Probably even on your local range, too.
What is your next step?

[357maximum]

What is your next step?



Start sending the shiny recycled weights to your elected elitests one at a time maybe???? We have some very tough choices coming up.

[Charlie Sometimes]

Start sending the shiny recycled weights to your elected elitests one at a time maybe???? We have some very tough choices coming up.

Send them the steel WW's- they're bound to be chinese and not american steel. Save the lead or zinc for the boolits! :smile: Tough choices? Yea, whether or not, our own people will turn traitor and rat on the rest of us. [smilie=f:The politicians have already decided where they stand- against us. :-x

[sqlbullet]

What is your next step?

If you don't live in California, don't go there.

If you do live in California, look for a chance to leave.

I don't have any huge beef with the state where I live, but give me a decent option for Montana and I would probably move, if I could get my other half to come.

[462]

sqlbullet,

I've been waiting for 20-years to move to Montana, the opportunity just hasn't presented itself. I've learned patience, though. To a degree...

[fredj338]

If you don't live in California, don't go there.

If you do live in California, look for a chance to leave.

I don't have any huge beef with the state where I live, but give me a decent option for Montana and I would probably move, if I could get my other half to come.
HA! I at least bought some land. The plan is top leave here sooner than later. No way am I retiring here, no frickin way.
Went by my fav. tire shop. He has a deal to sell all his remaining to some less than legal tire shop for almost $1/! A bit rich for my blood. So that deal was great while it lasted. I'm afraid other tire shops will follow suite. So it's range scrap going forward for me.:-(

[Springfield]

Condors don't eat steel backstops so ranges are not included in the lead ban, even within the Condor areas. We can't ALL move to Montana.

[dualsport]

Geeze, I'd hate to have some of you watching my back in a fight "We're whipped! It's no use! Run!"The sissies aren't running me out of MY state. Stand your ground, this is our fight, if we all act together we will have a paradise. This was a paradise, why do you think everybody and their brother moved here? Get in the fight guys, come on man. Go to the NRA website now and see how to help AB357 get passed, it'll mean you can get a freakin' carry permit without having to prove 'good cause'. Wouldn't that be nice? I'd like to hear from a few Cal. guys who are going to fight for our rights. We CAN win, things are improving in our favor, let's keep it going.
EDIT: On the condor thing, yes the lead ban is bad, yes I'd look away if you shot one, but, the DFG Commission was under severe pressure to extend the ban to the entire state and didn't do it due to public pressure. Your voice matters and is important and has an effect on how things will be. Get in the fight. Think about joining the California Rifle and Pistol Association, our most effective tool in California.

[fredj338]

Geeze, I'd hate to have some of you watching my back in a fight "We're whipped! It's no use! Run!"The sissies aren't running me out of MY state. Stand your ground, this is our fight, if we all act together we will have a paradise. This was a paradise, why do you think everybody and their brother moved here? Get in the fight guys, come on man. Go to the NRA website now and see how to help AB357 get passed, it'll mean you can get a freakin' carry permit without having to prove 'good cause'. Wouldn't that be nice? I'd like to hear from a few Cal. guys who are going to fight for our rights. We CAN win, things are improving in our favor, let's keep it going.
EDIT: On the condor thing, yes the lead ban is bad, yes I'd look away if you shot one, but, the DFG Commission was under severe pressure to extend the ban to the entire state and didn't do it due to public pressure. Your voice matters and is important and has an effect on how things will be. Get in the fight. Think about joining the California Rifle and Pistol Association, our most effective tool in California.

Yeah, yeah, I've been in the fight for some 30+yrs now. You obviously aren't paying attention to all the morons moving here (legal or not) & voting for the idiots NOT running the state worth a doodoo.How do you fight utter stupidity & corruption in govt. when the same ******** keep getting elected? I am embaressed that Pelosi, Boxer & Feinstein "represent" me, but how do you get them unelected?
Yeah I vote, call, write, donate, blah, balh, blah. It hasn't done any good for what, some 30yrs now. There is a point when you have to realize that bashing your head into the wall just isn't worth the effort when all Kalif. really has going for it, when you get right down to the bottom line, is the fricking weather. What you say, not true? How about higher taxes, corrupt govt at all levels, poor schools, high crime, crowded traffic, antigun, oppressive govt (can't order a rare hamburger in a rest. or smoke in a park, etc). No jobs, high prices on everything. Yeah, Kalif is a fricking paradise. It will only get worse not better, regardless of how much money you throw at it. The state is badly broken & the only way to fix it is tear it all down & start over & the liberal Dems are not going to go quietly. That is why they have district mandering to keep themselves in power.
You can call me a coward, but I would bet I have seen the best & worst of Kalif. lived here on & off for 49yrs. Travel around, you'll find so many other places that offer a better quality of life style if you are just willing to give up the lovely weather. At some point life becomes too short to tilt w/ windmills:violin:

[sqlbullet]

We can't ALL move to Montana.

Montana is only 10% smaller than California. Plenty of room for gun loving people.


Stand your ground, this is our fight, if we all act together we will have a paradise....We CAN win, things are improving in our favor.

I admire your courage.

I expect I have about as many winters still ahead of me as I have behind. Maybe a few more. At the current rate of change, I will be long dead before it becomes a free state again.

I fight my fights. I have a current feud going with the local schools about how much right they have to tell me what color pants I can dress my kids in for school.

But, we no longer have a country that runs on a base philosophy of individual freedom. We are devolving into a simple democracy, with the inherent violence of the majority faction seen throughout the country. The courts are not striking down laws that infringe the right of the individual.

Before we had a revolution that formed this country, our ancestors fled Europe because of governments that provided no protections for their religious rights.

[snowwolfe]

Tire shops in CA will continue to get lead weights off of tires for some time and they have to replace them with non-lead weights. It seems that right now in CA is the best time in the past few years to get WW, shops seem far more willing right now to give up the lead weights. If your in CA I suggest you double up your efforts and get them while you can.

Rick

I thought the reason tire shops had so many old weights was because they did not reuse them?

[fredj338]

I thought the reason tire shops had so many old weights was because they did not reuse them?

True, but the avg. new tire will last about 2yrs, so figure everyone that bought tires this year will be replacing them in 2012. That will be about the end of lead WW in Kommifornia.

[dualsport]

The enemie's tactic of wearing us down is a proven strategy and is obviously working on some of us. If you have no fight left in you and have fought hard in the past then I suppose you should be able to leave the battlefield without a bunch of **** from those remaining. At the same time, maintaining a membership in the CRPA is only $35 a year and is a meaningful show of support for Cal. gun owners. That's only about .10 cents a day. California lawmakers pay attention to what the CRPA says, that's a fact. No, we don't win 'em all, but we win some big ones now and then. If every Cal. gun owner joined up we would be writing the rules. By the way, my guess is they don't want us in Montana, or Idaho, Colorado, Texas....

[462]

dualsport,

I'm not a quitter nor a whine nor a fence sitter. I'm a realist. Fifty-years of liberalism has socialy, moraly and monetarily bankrupted California. If the 2010 elections were to unseat every Sacramento liberal, socialist, and whacko do-gooder politician, it will still take at least a generation before the state reverted back to its pre '60's status.

I've written every one of my elected representitives, at the local, state and federal levels, as well as the local newspaper, and other than the one or two canned responses, none of them have responded. After a while, it starts to feel good when you quit banging your head against the wall.

As far as AB357 is concerned, I've written my state assemblyman and senator -- one a social do-gooder lawyer and the other an egotistical political climber who sold out the anti-tax-raising Republicans (his own party) over the '09 budget. Even if the bill were to make it to Arnold's desk, do you really expect him to sign it? Have you tried to buy a box of ammo since the first of the year? Is your Hand Gun Training Certificate up to date? Have you tried to buy more than one gun a month? Are you happy being limited to 10-round magazines? Would you like to buy an AK-47? Don't forget, he goes to bed every night with a Kennedy.

In 1995, we bought some Western Montana acreage, but due to various circumstances and reasons, we sold it in '03. When the get-out-of-California opportunity knocks, Montana remains more than a viable option. Parts of Arizona hold much promise, too.

No sir, it's not a matter of me leaving Californis but one of California having left me. A long, long time ago it was, too.

Seems we were writing at the same time. I volunteered to go to Viet Nam. Don't talk about not wanting to fight.

[dualsport]

I understand getting tired of the constant fight for our rights. It sucks. I'm just saying if all of us just take 10 minutes and $35 to join the CRPA we will have a very powerful collective voice. The enemy has paid lobbyists, we have one too. Help him out. It's a small thing to do, and once you're a member you don't have to do anymore. All we have to do is organize and we will have much more power. As far as AB 357 goes, it does have a chance, it depends on public support. Arnold could very well sign it, you never know. If not, it may become a major campaign issue for his replacement. The public wants this law passed. Who would have guessed a constitutional amendment banning gay marriage in California would pass?! But it did. Joining the CRPA is a very good way to "get in the fight". It's all you really have to do to be a good soldier, though not the only way. Just the easiest and most effective.

[shooterg]

I'm way over here on the other side of what passes for what used to be the USA - but I've contributed to the GOC (Gun Owners of California) just because all the weird stuff starts there and anything to slow 'em down is a good thing. Pretty sure if I lived there, I'd be going to Arizona ASAP. Lot of good shooting in Arizona. Montana good too, but I hear it gets real cold there !

[dualsport]

fred, the word coward never entered my mind. If that is what my post implied I apologize, I may have been a little wreckless with my choice of words. We are all frustrated. I just hate to hear about "my people" leaving California. shooterg, thanks for your support.

[Tazman1602]

dualsport,

I'm not a quitter nor a whine nor a fence sitter. I'm a realist. Fifty-years of liberalism has socialy, moraly and monetarily bankrupted California. .................................................. ...............................
.................................................. ................
No sir, it's not a matter of me leaving Californis but one of California having left me. A long, long time ago it was, too.

Seems we were writing at the same time. I volunteered to go to Viet Nam. Don't talk about not wanting to fight.

Extemely well said Sir. Not that it means anything but +1 from me.


Art

[snowwolfe]

True, but the avg. new tire will last about 2yrs, so figure everyone that bought tires this year will be replacing them in 2012. That will be about the end of lead WW in Kommifornia.

Ya lost me, still trying to figure out why tire shops would have more lead weights to give away now. Whats the difference how long a tire will last? The weights are taken off, tossed into a bin where they await a trip to the recycler or to a scrounger. Just cause lead weights are outlawed why would there be more sitting around now? They all go into the recycle/scrouger bins.

Not trying to be argumentive, just missing the point why tire shops would have more to give away now since they were not reused before.

[starbits]

Not trying to be argumentive, just missing the point why tire shops would have more to give away now since they were not reused before.

Because a lot of shops do reuse a lot of them. Much cheaper than buying new. Here in AZ that is the most common response when I ask for lead. In this economy they are pinching pennies where ever they can.

Now that CA can't reuse them there is no economic reason for CA tire shops to hang on to them.

Starbits

[cbrick]

Ya lost me, still trying to figure out why tire shops would have more lead weights to give away now. Not trying to be argumentative, just missing the point why tire shops would have more to give away now since they were not reused before.

Not "more" weights now but rather more willing to give them up now since as of January 1st they cannot re-use them.

No idea what would give you the idea that tire shops didn't re-use weights, many do and some will probably continue to illegally do so. For those that won't continue to re-use the lead weights they are more willing to get rid of them.

Rick

[462]

"We can't ALL move to Montana."

Springfield,

The population of San Jose is greater than the entire state of Montana. There's plenty of room for those who can/want to move.

[snowwolfe]

Thanks guys. Never knew a tire shop to reuse them. Thats why they all went into bins. Asked my son the same question (he works at a major stores tire shop) and he said they absolutely were not allowed to reuse them.
But if a shop did reuse them makes sense there would be more now for people to scrounge.

Just curious, you guys that lived in other states that already banned lead ww's, did you notice a lot more freebies after the ban went into effect?

[awaveritt]

I know of a couple of tire shops in my area that specialized in new and USED tires. They do re-use the wheel weights even though they will occasionally gather some up for me if I pester them enough.

Also, recently had a tire shop manager accept my 5 gallon bucket with my phone number on it, saying he'd give me a call when it started to get full. I'm in Texas though, not California.

[fredj338]

I understand getting tired of the constant fight for our rights. It sucks. I'm just saying if all of us just take 10 minutes and $35 to join the CRPA we will have a very powerful collective voice. The enemy has paid lobbyists, we have one too. Help him out.
Yeah, NRA, CRPA, SCI, sure, it helps, but what progress have any progun groups made here? They cant', it's not possible w/ all the antigun liberals in our state. The state is controled by three popluation centers; SanFran, LA & Sac, their total population vote trumps the more conservative counties. It's not going to get better only worse. All the progun groups can do is slow them down. There is a point where you have to just say phuque them & their weather & move on for your own economic a well as personnal freedoms.
The idea that a pro CCW law will be passed here i slaughable. The only reason it's even being attempted is to curry favor w/ voters in that congressman's district. He is in a rural county that probably votes mostly Rep. & ALL incombants are a bit worried about their cushy jobs right now. I'll be impressed if we can just get Boxer out of office & a decent number of the state's congressional reps turned over, but don't hold your breath. The liberals in place have a pretty good foothold, the employees unions have a ton of money & they want to & do run this state. I've lived here on & off for 45yrs & when I am gone, I will likely never come back unless I am visiting my poor enslaved relatives.[smilie=b:

[sqlbullet]

I would add to fredj338's comments that the idea of national CCW also sounds bad to me. As is stands, it is left to the states to decide. I live in a state that almost has it right. They will issue a permit to about anyone. (Right is that anyone can carry, no permit required).

But, if we end up with some national standard, you will have those same population centers like LA, NY, DC, SF, Chicago, etc, having a huge say in what I can do in Utah.

If the courts want to set the record straight correctly and rule that "not be infringed" means "NOT BE INFRINGED", great. National CCW will no longer be needed. Otherwise, leave it to the states.

[fredj338]

I would add to fredj338's comments that the idea of national CCW also sounds bad to me. As is stands, it is left to the states to decide. I live in a state that almost has it right. They will issue a permit to about anyone. (Right is that anyone can carry, no permit required).

But, if we end up with some national standard, you will have those same population centers like LA, NY, DC, SF, Chicago, etc, having a huge say in what I can do in Utah.

If the courts want to set the record straight correctly and rule that "not be infringed" means "NOT BE INFRINGED", great. National CCW will no longer be needed. Otherwise, leave it to the states.
The nationla law that was recently proposed was, I believe, just to allow legal carry across state lines. In other words, your Utah permit or Kalif. permit, etc would be legal in any state. I favor that big time. It then takes the antigun state rulers out of the picture when it comes to my self defense.

[sqlbullet]

Yeah...I know how the law was written.

I also know how well the fed keeps it's nose outta things once they get the tip in.

Given their track record, I would just as soon see them stop legislating about guns and carry.