lee boolit mold

[tubb_ooh_lard]

ok i bet everyone has answered this question plenty of times i want some fresh opinions on the Lee 2-Cavity Bullet Mold 459-500-3R 45-70 Government (459 Diameter) 500 Grain Pointed Round Nose everything ive read on here suggestd that the grooves dont hold enough lube for bp an the nose has a tendancy to slump the barrel on my shiloh slugged at .457 with a micrometer and i will probly be shooting imr 3031 smokeless untill i can find the funds and a decent brand of bp this will prove kinda challenging here in ohio not a lot of dealers stock bp ... ok now will this be a good boolit to shoot in my shiloh or will it shoot and sizing .. should i size it down to the .457 that my rifle slugs at or bell the cases an shoot it oversize bein as i am a complete uhmm dummy feel free to call me names an such for what im sure is a often repeated question .. and the reason im thinking about buying this mold is 1 at 23 bucks shipped its cheap and right now i cant afford spending more than pocket change and 2 research points towards the fact that the shiloh will shoot better with a heavier bullet than the 405 grain lee i have to borrow to cast with now .. thanks again:redneck:

[Kenny Wasserburger]

Spend the exta few bucks and get the Lyman Govt bullet. Well worth it 457125 I think it is.

And use a 458 Sizer you do fine with the Shiloh.

KW
The Lunger

[NickSS]

I agree with Kenny as the lee molds do not carry enough lube for black powder. You will not have a problem with smokeless but once you start with black you will have problems unless you use a lube cookie under the bullet. I shot the goverment Lyman bullet for 15 years before I started using other bullets and it is still one of the best that I have tried.

[Don McDowell]

Spend the money and get either the Lyman postel, or the 500 gr round nose.
Or go with the RCBS 500 or 530.
The lee 500 gr pointy bullet carries enough lube for bp, but it looses stabliity unpredictably when going past 500 yds.

As to the bp dealer thing go to Grafs web site and order 5 lbs of goex cartridge or their own brand in 2f.

[Boz330]

Tubb, where are you at in OH? If close to Cincinnati there is a club on the east side that shoots hanging silly wets on the 2nd Sunday at noon. There is also a dealer that carries BP in Waldron IN, just up I-74 towards Indy. Best prices anywhere.
You might put up a wanted add for that Lyman mould on the WTB thread, might get one for just a little more than the Lee. Boolit slump with smokeless probably isn't as big an issue as with BP.

Bob

[tubb_ooh_lard]

im about 5 hours from cinci boz

[powderburnerr]

be careful with the Lee I have sold it but there was one of their 500 gn roundnose designs that wouldnt fit in the shiloh chamber , you would be way better off with a lyman or saeco or rcbs, they all make a good bullet for that rifle.

[405]

It will be interesting to hear back the results of 3031 under that bullet.... accuracy, leading :) ??? Don't know about the inadequacy of the lube capacity of that bullet for BP. You can offset, to some degree, the reality or illusion of not enough lube in a BP load by adding a grease cookie under the bullet. If the groove dia. in your gun is for sure .457 then .458 is about the best place to try first.

[405]

T o L,
It's seen here really often. Either in the general cast bullet/ smokeless/ single shot categories or in the BPCR category. Shooter gets bit by the Sharps bug. Buys one. Uses high-powered rifle/jacketed bullet background and techniques and steps off into it with these guns. Usually a frustrating process. Tight budgets are what they are.... just have to patiently wait and get the quality components/ sights/ accessories over time. Most all quality Sharps will shoot 1 inch groups at 100 yards. It is a worthy objective. It is not easy to get there. The frustration level can build :(

Most shooters need some success along the way to keep the interest. Most of us who have done this for a while have been in exactly the same position. Hurry up to "break-her-in". Then grab the cheapest, most handy stuff or most talked about such and such and go blast away. Usually groups like cylinder bore shotgun patterns and leaded bores. Ughh. It's all normal :)

Sights- well the gun is capable of 1 MOA accuracy so why not put a good set of sights on the "to budget for" list so at least that accuracy will be feasible in the future. Sight picture resolution is what it is and no way around it.... even with 20:10 vision.

Bullets- they're not all the same nor are all bullets easy to get to shoot well and some may never shoot well in that gun! Instead of investing in a bunch of $20-$30 molds that may or may not shoot to the level the guns is capable of..... buy a 50 or so of a few "known" good types of bullets. See how they act.

Loads- smokeless works fine in a 45-70 Sharps. It allows for a more gradual learning curve and helps with getting used to the rifle. It also tends to be much easier to get some success with accuracy! BUT loading a fairly soft plain base bullet over most smokeless loads is really a c**p shoot! Scatter groups and leading are common. A gas-checked bullet of BHN 11-14 hardness sized to .001" larger than groove diameter, lubed with a fairly soft lube over a mild, low pressure, low velocity load of 5744 or 4759 is the fastest way to cast bullet accuracy and success in that rifle that I know of- period!

Or you could just dive straight into the BPCR category. Quick and easy it ain't no matter how it's learned or in which order. Get some FFg BP. Buy a few GOOD plain base BP type bullets. Get or make some card wads and let the process begin :)

Cheaping out with sights, molds or makin' do with mis-matched components is almost always a false economy and sure way to more frustration.

[Boz330]

What 405 said. Many here have been there done that and didn't EVEN get a t-shirt to show for it. Even when you get a good group and it performs several times for you it comes back and bites you because of conditions or temp change.
If you like shooting a LOT this is for you. If you frustrate easy you are going to be in hell. Almost all of the first smokeless and duplex loads that I tried from my 1st BPCR shot well, then I went to straight black and the odyssey began and is still going on.:veryconfu

Bob

[docone31]

Don't know much about that rifle, but I do know of the frustration!!!
It won't hurt to take your time getting a mold.
I prefer Lee Molds for a variety of reasons.
I tried to get a 45/70 to work years ago. It hurt, and I couldn't get it on paper. No way, no how. I didn't know about paper patching back then, and I still thought reloading was for "experts". I tried different powder charges, powder types, etc., etc. I finally got rid of that rifle. Never did get it to work.
Now, with all the help you are going to get here, even if you do not ask the right question, someone will help out! If it is an off-the-wall type dude, someone will pipe in right away.
Slug the bore!
That is really important. If you are lucky, then you might stumble on the sizeing. I did with my Smelly. Get a slug, then get a mold.
Another thing that I have found to help,
Go to the Midway site, and on a mold, read the comments! You can tell from the complaints, or praise what is what. Do not neccessarily get the mold, but you can get a better idea of what is up with it.
Enjoy the ride!
It is satisfying.

[Don McDowell]

The biggest problem with the lee molds and the big 45 bullets, is they heat up to fast, they're to flimsily made to stand up to casting enough of those big bullets to do any good.
Go with the RCBS,lyman etc. and cast good bullets for a lifetime.

[tubb_ooh_lard]

thanks guys for the advice one of the only reasons ive been considering the lee mold is the day after i spent pretty much all the cash i had on this rifle we had our hours cut back at work and things are going to be very tight for who knows how long now i would like to jump right into b/p but buying powder and multiple molds and the dies i need isnt an option even powder untill i use up the 4lbs of 3031 i have on hand isnt a option . and right now i am more interested in just goin shooting an having fun then anything else .. an i'd rather not have to keep borrowing a friends mold and his dies to feed the monkey on my back

[Don McDowell]

Onemore thing to chew on. If you have to buy the mold the ladle, the melting pot, the alloy and the sizer....
You may want to price bullets at www.montanabulletworks.com and weight the costs comparison..

[cajun shooter]

You have been given great advice by every one. If you go to any BPCR match you will see no one using Lee molds and there is a reason for that. You have purchased the best rifle made, why use it with the cheapest bullet mold made? You would be better off buying some good bullets from Sage Outfitters or another if you wish. The Saeco mold 735 can be purchased for around the $80 range. The bullet that it drops with 20-1 or 30-1 is hard to beat for shooting fun with your rifle. I own a 1874 Pedersoli in 45-70 but only feed it the best componets and it rewards me with those one ragged hole groups at 100 yds. Buy a few bullets to shoot in that beautiful Shiloh.

[1874Sharps]

T o L,

I am not sure what your primary use of your nice new Shiloh will be, but if you intend to use it for hunting or mid-range shooting, you may consider the 405 grain boolits. Both the 405 and 500 grain boolits from Lyman have worked very well for me with both smokeless and BP. I have several Lee molds for my 45-70 but I could never get them to shoot nearly as well as the Lymans.

Now I know what I am about to say is sacrilege to this forum and especially to this particular section of it, but I will say it anyway. The Remington 405 JSP with 45 grains of IMR 3031 out of my Sharps gave incredible accuracy and punch. With globe front sight and vernier tang sight that load has shot five shot groups under 1/2 inch at 100 yards. Consistently, on any day, I could rely on that load to shoot well under one MOA at 100 yards. That was a few years back before I gave up my smokeless powder and jacketed bullet blasphemy and went entirely to the "Darkside" of BP loads for my Sharps.

[405]

T o L,

Now I know what I am about to say is sacrilege to this forum and especially to this particular section of it, but I will say it anyway. The Remington 405 JSP with 45 grains of IMR 3031 out of my Sharps gave incredible accuracy and punch. With globe front sight and vernier tang sight that load has shot five shot groups under 1/2 inch at 100 yards. Consistently, on any day, I could rely on that load to shoot well under one MOA at 100 yards. That was a few years back before I gave up my smokeless powder and jacketed bullet blasphemy and went entirely to the "Darkside" of BP loads for my Sharps.

Not blasphemy if it is the truth. That same bullet with 4198 also is one accurate combination out of the Sharps.

If nothing else, shooting an accurate Jbullet load out of one of those guns provides a yardstick with which to judge or measure any future accuracy with GG cast, pp, smokeless or blackpowder.

[Boz330]

I'm going to go against the flow and my own advice. My shooting buddy has had pretty good luck in his Pedersoli 45-70 with one of the Lee moulds. I think that a 405 class boolit and the powder you have will at least get your feet wet. I use a number of Lee moulds for some milsurps and while they aren't on a par with RCBS or Lyman they get the job done. I have a Steve Brooks mould for my BPCR rifle now but that is not what I started with. Go for it, better to be shooting than looking at that fine piece of machinery.

Bob

[1874Sharps]

Bob is right. There are plenty of shooters that have made the Lee 45 caliber rilfe boolits shoot just fine. I saw Huberus shoot the Lee 405 HB with great effect in his rolling block 45-70 28" barrel with 1.5 FG Swiss BP about two weeks ago. Just because I did not have the greatest of luck with the Lee 45 caliber rifle molds does not mean it cannot be done by any means. At the economical prices of Lee molds, you could buy several and not be out of much money.

[tubb_ooh_lard]

thanks everyone ive ordered the mold and good or bad im still gonna enjoy shootin the boolits it makes regardless

[blackpowder man]

Tubb,
I have a similar problem. My 1885 winchester limited .45-70 isn't here yet, but my mold and dies made it yesterday. I'm on a budget. I couldn't buy the gun outright, but took a loss swapping 2 fine guns and some cash I shouldn't have spent. I molded 150 lee 459-500-2r bullets today and lubed with darr lube. Until I can get some bees wax it's what I have. Some fella keeps miraculously beating me by a day or two on WW searches that he molds fishing weights with. So I used stick on weights with tin solder mixed in for 50 bullets and straight lead for muzzleloading and tin solder for 100(probably not enough for much more hardness). I have goex 2f and 3f, pyrodex rifle, triple 7, imr 4064, 3031, 4759, and unique to play with and guess I'll do research and make a lot of noise looking for what works. Won the pyrodex an 777 at black powder muzzleloader shoots and been saving them for this and .44 SBH revolvers to play with. I would prefer to not spend all my time cleaning out lead. I have plenty of experience with cap and ball revolvers and leading isn't a problem at their lower velocity. I even ran 60 grains of fffg through a colt walker repro, becase the manual said it would handle it, but the poi started shifting because the barrel was bending at wedge holding the barrel on. Anyway luck to you and it would be nice for someone to post the magic load for my gun with the components I have on hand. Thanks for a great forum.
P.S. it is the fault of you faceless people that pointed out the winchester at Davidson's as well as the 92 Rossi I have on layaway at Bud's

[tubb_ooh_lard]

i woke up saterday morning with the shakes and knew i couldnt put it off any longer i went to my friends house and borrowed his dies and somemore 405 grn boolits went home and loaded up 20 rounds now taking no extra care bein i was in a hurry to feed the monkey on my back i set the lee boolits on top of 39 grns of imr3031 and cci200 primers the brass is old ww thats was full lenght sized the first time i shot it then neck sized this time bullets was seated for a overall legnth of 2.550 it took the first 5 to get on paper then i shot 2 ok 5 shot groups of 6 to 7 inches and one better group of 4 to 5 inches .. it was cold and im more than pleased with the results cant wait till the mold gets here so i can practice up my casting i hope maybe the b/p gods will smile on me soon and ill get a few hours overtime and a new set of my very own dies and a couple pounds of goex .. what have i gotten myself into

[hiram]

I use the Lee 500 3R with bp and it works for me. It's used in a roller. The 500+ bullets with parallel sides don't chamber because the straight bullets increase full diameter case/bullet length and there isn't enough room to lay the flat enough to slide it in over the breechblock. The nose rubs the chamber. The Lee 500 3R bullet allows enough cartridge tilt to chamber. If I wanted to use a parallel side bullet, it would have to be shorter.

[tubb_ooh_lard]

well i got my new lee .459 500 3 r mold today i am hoping to cast about 100 or so tomarow out of ww guess im gonna have to learn how to do more than melt and pour and again i'd like to thank everyone for the helpful advice . i have heard a rumer that the birthday fairy is going to bring me my very own rcbs dies about mid march .. any way thanks everybody

[blackpowder man]

Tubb,
Picked up my 1885 winchester this morning, got ww brass delivered yesterday, and prepped the brass and loaded some up with varget and some with sr 4759. I will add a another load with a third powder, but not sure which, to see if one shows more promise and to get to know the gun and sights. Will shoot on friday and let you know how these little 500 grain( mine weigh 488+\-) squirrel bullets shoot.

[tubb_ooh_lard]

varget huh hows it shoot in the 45/70 how many grains of powder i have varget for my .22/250 didnt think it would be a very good choice

[blackpowder man]

I read an online article by guns and ammo or similar and they recommended 37 grains of varget with a 500 grain bullet. They also recommended 24 grains of sr4759. I tried both and the varget was leaving unburned powder in the barrel. The imr powder showed better promise. I keep finding the varget to be versatile in a lot of things, but not wonderful at anything. I have tried it in .223, .243, .22-250, .30-30, .30-06, and now.45-70. Those 500 grains bullets got a little push to them. I shot 25+ rounds today and feel like I do after going through 100 12 guage shells skeet shooting. I'm having issues with the gun shooting higher than I have adjustment for, so it is back to the reloading bench for another round. I like the gun and I like the cartridge and look forward to shooting some nice groups.

[tubb_ooh_lard]

my lee 500 3R mold experiance .. i got my mold middle of the week and used it for the first time thursday i spent about 10 minutes deburring it and cleaning it once my lead was melted i heated the mold with a propane torch lubed it an started pouring took about 8 try's to get good fill and was very sticky but i kept going and after i emptied my pot of about 13 lbs of lead i had about 135 well formed but frosty bullets .. after i get the comet to em an polish em up a bit im going to try casting using it as a single cavity and alternate between the 2 to see if it will help to contol the heat better .. boolits all measure between .458 and .459 an wiegh between 490 and 493 grns

[45-70 Chevroner]

I have the Lee 459 500 3R 2 cav. mold and I use the bullets sized .459 in my Pedersoli Remmington Rolling Block. The mold is a pleasant casting mold. It will mold boolits right along side a lyman any day for many years. I have been using Lee molds for a long time and have never had one fail me. Some people just don't like them. I'v heard some real flak about Lyman moulds in the last year. Thier quality has gone almost out the door. The mold in question has 3 nice wide Ggroves and if you use a softer lube and some what sticky they will work well with BP. In compition most shooters run a patch through the bore quite often.