M1917 mods

[no34570]

Hi Fella's[smilie=s:
Awhile back,you might remember me saying I was thinking about getting a M1917 Eddystone in .303/25 and I am going to re-barrel it to .303Epps?:rolleyes:
Well I bought it[smilie=w:,yep I got it,just waiting until the gun dealer gets back from his break and I can apply for my PTA(Permit To Acquire)from our local coppers:-P and then get sent down to my local dealer.

What I want to know is,is there any modifications I can get done to the action,to make it areal slick operating rifle?

1)Trigger (what about a Huber Concept trigger or a Dayton Traister?)

2) Is cock on opening better or Cock on closing

3)I was thinking of getting the action painted in the Cerrocoat/Teflon paint to make it slick,any thoughts on that product?

4) Get my gunsmith to do some action work(What would that be?,sorry don't know:sad:)

5)What stock options could I go for?,would I have to get a M1917 Fat belly stock? How do you know if your action is a 5 shot or a 6 shot(Have not looked at that bit).

And if anyone can think of something that I can do to the action to make it slick & beautiful,please post,as this is my project rifle,so it will take me awhile to get things one too it,but I am not going to rush it,I want it done properly,so in years to come,I can hand it down to one of my Family members.

If this is in the wrong forum,moderators please feel free to move it and sorry:sad:

Thanks fella's

[Multigunner]

Remember that the M1917 , and I expect the P-14 as well, were made from a Nickel Steel alloy with a rep for having a slight sticky feel when cycling the bolt.

Nickel Steels, like some Stainless Steel alloys, seem to have a bit of friction when one peice slides over another of the same alloy. Modern stainless autoloaders often use two different stainless alloys for frame and slide to prevent galling of the mating surfaces.

Too high a polish on the bolt would prevent lubricant from clinging to the metal. Same goes for any part of the receiver it contacts.

One might try Jeweling or Engine Turning the Bolt surface, which acts like honing of an automobile cylinder to provide a surface that holds lubricants.

Most seem to agree that a cock on closing action is smoother and faster to operate. I've found that if the camming surfaces are lapped a cock on opening action can be just as quick, and more precise.

[3006guns]

Cock on opening or closing is really a matter of personal preference. I like the cock on closing simply because it "feels" like I can apply more force in the foward direction, whereas on opening I'm fighting the force of the bolt lug camming also. Like I said, a matter of personal preference.

[MtGun44]

I'm with 3006guns. I would not make any effort to go to cock on opening. You are
doing primary extraction at that point and do not really need the extra resistance.
OTOH, when you are ramming the bolt fwd the tiny bit of extra force to cock the action
is negligable.

The real weakness of this action is the integral ejector spring. This often breaks, so find
a spare or IIRC there is a repair where you add a flat spring to the original ejector.

Bill

[no34570]

Remember that the M1917 , and I expect the P-14 as well, were made from a Nickel Steel alloy with a rep for having a slight sticky feel when cycling the bolt.

Nickel Steels, like some Stainless Steel alloys, seem to have a bit of friction when one peice slides over another of the same alloy. Modern stainless autoloaders often use two different stainless alloys for frame and slide to prevent galling of the mating surfaces.

Multigunner
So would getting the bolt painted in that Teflon coating from Gun Kote help that?


Most seem to agree that a cock on closing action is smoother and faster to operate. I've found that if the camming surfaces are lapped a cock on opening action can be just as quick, and more precise.

I'll probably leave the cocking alone :)
Thanks mate for your help and advice

[no34570]

Cock on opening or closing is really a matter of personal preference. I like the cock on closing simply because it "feels" like I can apply more force in the foward direction, whereas on opening I'm fighting the force of the bolt lug camming also. Like I said, a matter of personal preference.

3006guns
I will probably leave it the way it is,I'm not going to change it,for there must have been a reason they had it cock like that.
Thanks mate

[no34570]

The real weakness of this action is the integral ejector spring. This often breaks, so find
a spare or IIRC there is a repair where you add a flat spring to the original ejector.

MtGun44
Thanks mate
Ejector spring is there a better one out there,like from Brownells ?

[nicholst55]

Brownells carried a replacement years ago that used a coil spring, instead of the flat spring. I don't know if anyone still makes that style or not. Numrich carries both originals and reproductions that use the flat spring.

I suppose if you searched the Internet long enough, you might find the replacement style ejector. Be advised though, it will likely be for the 1917, rather than the P14. It will be about 1/2" shorter than the .303 ejector.

[no34570]

Brownells carried a replacement years ago that used a coil spring, instead of the flat spring. I don't know if anyone still makes that style or not. Numrich carries both originals and reproductions that use the flat spring.

I suppose if you searched the Internet long enough, you might find the replacement style ejector. Be advised though, it will likely be for the 1917, rather than the P14. It will be about 1/2" shorter than the .303 ejector.

Thanks for the info on that mate,will try to find more about it on the net.;-)

Cheers mate

[Mk42gunner]

Who knows what has been done to this rifle already, since it is currently a .303/25?


1)Trigger (what about a Huber Concept trigger or a Dayton Traister?)

If you don't mind a two stage trigger; the stock trigger can be slicked up to give a decent trigger pull with some care and a little effort.


2) Is cock on opening better or Cock on closing

Cock on closing has never bothered me. Plus it gives the full length stiker travel.


3)I was thinking of getting the action painted in the Cerrocoat/Teflon paint to make it slick,any thoughts on that product?

On my latest M1917 I smoothed the bolt and action with about a half sheet of crocus cloth.


4) Get my gunsmith to do some action work(What would that be?,sorry don't know)

See answer 3.


5)What stock options could I go for?,would I have to get a M1917 Fat belly stock? How do you know if your action is a 5 shot or a 6 shot(Have not looked at that bit).

I have a Boyd's RIA on my current M1917, I bought it as a factory second. On a six round magazine the floorplate will be about a half inch deeper than the front action screw. My floorplate measured approximately 2.68" from the top of the bolt. Or you could try to stick six rounds in the mag. I believe the only reason the M1917 was six round was that it was cheaper to use the same parts as the P14 vice changing everything, (stock, Mag box, floorplate,trigger, etc.) to five round capacity.

Good luck with your new rifle,

Robert

[Hardcast416taylor]

If you are changing the trigger be sure you are getting a trigger made for the milltary 6 shot or the altered 5 shot action. They cannot be used in the same action, a 6 shot trigger in an altered 5 shot action or vice versa. Timney also makes a replacement trigger. I may be wrong, but I thought if you modify to cock on opening you negate the original safety working as such. Good luck on whatever you do, I like both the `17 and the P-14.Robert

[no34570]

Mk42Gunner
Thanks for your replies mate,appreciate it greatly.


Who knows what has been done to this rifle already, since it is currently a .303/25?
Well,that is true mate,I don't know what has been done to the rifle already,I could be jumping the gun:):)(sorry for the pun)so to speak.


If you don't mind a two stage trigger; the stock trigger can be slicked up to give a decent trigger pull with some care and a little effort.
The original trigger would probably be fine,with a bit of work like you said,will think on that one though.


Cock on closing has never bothered me. Plus it gives the full length stiker travel.
I'm not going to change that,I'll leave that the way it is.


On my latest M1917 I smoothed the bolt and action with about a half sheet of crocus cloth.
Ok,I'll bite :) What is crocus cloth? And what parts did you do it too?

Do Boyd's have stocks for the M1917?,I did not see them when I visited their website?
Seen some nice stocks from Richards Microfit Gunstocks http://www.rifle-stocks.com/sporter_hunting_styles.htm like the laminated series very much.

Thanks for your information and thoughts on the topic and I will enjoy my M1917

Thanks mate

[no34570]

If you are changing the trigger be sure you are getting a trigger made for the milltary 6 shot or the altered 5 shot action. They cannot be used in the same action, a 6 shot trigger in an altered 5 shot action or vice versa. Timney also makes a replacement trigger. I may be wrong, but I thought if you modify to cock on opening you negate the original safety working as such. Good luck on whatever you do, I like both the `17 and the P-14.Robert

Hardcast416Taylor
Thanks for the heads up on that mate,would not have known that and just assumed it would be right,I appreciate your advice mate.

[wiljen]

I've got a timney trigger in one of my 17s and highly recommend them. If you get the right one (5 or 6 shot action) they are pretty much drop in and easily adjusted to your likes.

[Ben]

I just finished battling a mis-fire problem with my 1917 sporter rifle.
It has a Timney Trigger and was converted by my gunsmith to cock on open. As soon as the conversion was completed , I experienced a light firing pin strike and about a 25% misfire rate with just about every kind of primer that I could try ( about 4 or more different brands ). It didn't seem to matter what kind of primer I used, I still was getting a very light firing pin strike.

I went to the internet and did a little research. I found out that on the cock on opening conversion on a 1917 that the cocking piece only comes back about 1/3 of it's travel when it is cocked. It has a high speed spring in to compensate for this short travel. It is said that it increases the lock time of the rifle. I can't tell that my rifle shoots any better or any worse with either system.

Mine never worked. As soon as I went back to cock on closing and using the original military firing pin and f/p spring, I had 100% ignition again.

Ben

[no34570]

I've got a timney trigger in one of my 17s and highly recommend them. If you get the right one (5 or 6 shot action) they are pretty much drop in and easily adjusted to your likes.

wiljen
Thanks for that,I'll keep it in mind when I go to get a trigger replacement or job.:smile:

[no34570]

Mine never worked. As soon as I went back to cock on closing and using the original military firing pin and f/p spring, I had 100% ignition again.
Hi Ben
So did you take the Timmney out or does the Timmney make it cock on open?
I'm confused,but that is not hard :)

[Safeshot]

Hello no34570,

I will try to help and to answer your questions based on owning and using U.S. M1917 Eddystone and Remington 30/06 Cal. Rifles since 1959.

You stated that you purchased a: "M1917 Eddystone in .303/25 and I am going to re-barrel it to .303Epps" You may need to determine exactly what you have purchased. Is the receiver actually marked "U.S. model of 1917 Eddystone"? If it is in .303/25 and if you re-barrel it to .303 Epps you might need to determine exactly what type of barrel is used and what type of barrel you will use. You also need to determine if you the rifle has a 1917 bolt or a 1914 (P14) Bolt, Extractor, Ejector, magazine box, magazine housing/trigger guard, floor plate and follower. These parts are slightly different in the two different models. The 1914 (P14) in .303 British Cal., and the 1917 in 30/06 Cal..

Now to your questions:

What I want to know is,is there any modifications I can get done to the action,to make it a real slick operating rifle? If your rifle is in good or better condition and properly lubricated it should already be a "real slick operating rifle". If it is not, it should be repaired to original condition. If it has been re-barreled be sure to check for a damaged, cracked, or twisted receiver. The original barrels can be very difficult to remove from some 1917 Eddystones.

1)Trigger (what about a Huber Concept trigger or a Dayton Traister?) Dayton Traister and Timney both make very good adjustable single stage triggers for the 1917 Rifle. They both make proper length triggers for the 5 and the 6 round magazines, the two length triggers are not interchangeable. Long trigger for 6 round mag, short trigger for 5 round mag. You do not need to look for a trigger with a safety, the original safety is one of the BEST that there is.

2) Is cock on opening better or Cock on closing? My opinion, for this rifle (1917) Cock on Closing is better. I have and have had both and like the original Cock on Closing far better. I have NEVER had any trouble with the Cock on Closing.

3)I was thinking of getting the action painted in the Cerrocoat/Teflon paint to make it slick,any thoughts on that product? If it is binding, correct the problem. If there is no problem the action should be "real slick". If it is a mismatch of 1917 and 1914 (P14) parts that may be concern. In my opinion: I do not like "painted action parts" especially inside the action.

4) Get my gunsmith to do some action work(What would that be?,sorry don't know) As stated before: If it is binding, correct the problem. If there is no problem the action should be "real slick".

5)What stock options could I go for?,would I have to get a M1917 Fat belly stock? How do you know if your action is a 5 shot or a 6 shot(Have not looked at that bit). Decide what type of stock that you want FIRST. If the action (or the magazine) will hold six rounds - it is. The type of stock that you decide on will dictate the magazine capacity. Then decide on how you want to handle the magazine and the front guard screw. You can straighten (modify) the front of the magazine and use a longer guard screw for a 6 round mag.. Or you can inlet the front of the unaltered magazine into the stock at the front guard screw location and use the original front guard screw. Or you can use all the original military parts and have a "Fat belly stock" like the original military style. For a 5 round magazine you can straighten the front of the trigger guard/magazine housing and shorten the height of the magazine box and use the original front guard screw. Or you can inlet the original front portion of the trigger guard/magazine housing and shorten the front guard screw and shorten the height of the magazine box.

I like to leave as much of the action and magazine original as possible. I do not even like to "cut the ears off of the receiver". It is possible to mount a scope on a 1917 Enfield with the "ears" left in place and have it look just fine. It also provides additional protection for the scope and provide a rather "massive" and "solid" look to the rifle.

It is all in what you want. The M1917 rifles are well suited to heavy sporting rifles in powerful calibers. It is entirely up to you as to what you want in your rifle. Just try to be sure what you want. Look at a lot of rifles, both custom and factory. It is difficult to change once you start on a specific course.

Good luck in what ever you decide to do.

[Ben]

no34570 :

It works 101% now with a mil trigger or the Timney.

So....I use the Timmney now and everything is fine.

Ben

[MtGun44]

Gun Parts has the replacement ejectors, for US 1917s. So may not work for the
P14.

http://www.e-gunparts.com/DisplayAd.asp?chrProductSKU=957280&chrSuperSKU=&MC=&CatID=11889&mySort=2

You can see why the leaf spring would break.

Bill

[Three44s]

I'll take a shot at adding to the cock on opening vs. cock on closing debate.

When you extract a fired round, the primary force is extracting the then expanded casing.

IF your rifle is cock on opening ...... you add the extraction force AND the cocking force.

IF your rifle is a cock on closing ...... you only have the extraction force ........... as you chamber a fresh round ....... it's sized and should chamber easily so the force of cocking (on closing) added to this BALANCES the forces of opperating your rifle.

........... extraction on one side .......... and chambering a fresh round plus cocking on the other side.

And in real life, bringing the bolt home in a rush such as these war guns were made for makes the cock on close an even better option.


Also, you asked about crocus cloth ........ here's a litte explaination:

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/2326406/crocus_cloth_what_is_it_used_for.html


Enjoy your Eddystone ......... I sure like my Remington (1917) ........ been thinking about some more .........

Three 44s

[no34570]

Safeshot
Thanks for all your advice,wow,it was good stuff.
Thank you my fine sir :)

[no34570]

Three44s
Thanks for the link explaining what crocus cloth was,i never heard of it before.

I reckon I will enjoy my Eddystone,just have to wait now:(