K-31

[Echo]

I just ordered a Swiss K-31 from J&G, and need brass and dies. I intend to only shoot boolits in this rascal, and need to know about the availability of brass. I see Graf's is showing PRVI OOS - any other ideas? :-|

[Boz330]

I just ordered a Swiss K-31 from J&G, and need brass and dies. I intend to only shoot boolits in this rascal, and need to know about the availability of brass. I see Graf's is showing PRVI OOS - any other ideas? :-|

If you can get Privi brass, get it. I had to buy loaded rounds to get brass and it was Privi and has worked fine.

Bob

[swheeler]

Get the Privi brass. I started out with 284 Win brass because at the time it was all I could find, it can be hard or harder to find.

[1874Sharps]

Echo,

Wahoo, you are going to enjoy the K31! They are a bit different from your garden variety bolt action and are quite fun. I got a mule deer this last season with my K31 with a paper patch gas check boolit. I got my brass from Graf's a couple of years back. It is headstamped GRAF, so I do not know the actual maker. It could very well have been made for them by PRVI, I do not know. I know you are wanting to shoot only boolits, but if you change your mind and shoot factory ammo, the milsurp RUAG ammo is quite good stuff.

[EMC45]

I also have Graf brass for the K31 and do believe it is PRVI made. You will enjoy your new find! Check for your soldier tag too.

[jack19512]

I use the 284 brass and have had good luck with it. Midway has the 284 brass but it sure has gone up a lot since I bought mine. Also asking about dies for the K31 will open up a can of worms. I guarantee you there will be someone tell you that you need brand so and so dies for the K31. I have used the Lee dies and have had very good luck.

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=1390258292

[chuebner]

I have two K31's and use the Lee collet dies exclusively for both rifles. I also have a Redding full length sizing die that I only use on new brass. The Redding is supposedly made to fit the K31 chamber whereas other brands are made for the K11 chamber. Both of mine are incredibly accurate for a military bolt gun.

Charlie

[KCSO]

Lee dies and Graf's brass and some cases are on their 6th reload with full power loads. With light loads I just neck size until the bolt sticks a little and then full length size. With W/W 748 and a Lee 180 grain bullet at 2100 fps i am shooting 1 1/2" groups regularly at 100 yards.

[Echo]

Thanks for the input, guys. I am anxious... but I need some brass. I may just buy some Commercial cartridges, but I hate to pay $1.50 per...

[mto7464]

Prvi ammo from grafs is cheap if they are out of brass.

[mike in co]

he said some would say so, so i am.
if you buy cheap brass use cheap any ol' dies...they match.

if you end up with norma brass buy a quality die, so you can keep your brass in use. the only die , that i know of , that is correct for the k31, and not a universal die, based on the 1911, is the redding k31 die.

nuff said.


mike in co

[jonk]

Wolf gold line ammo also has reloadable brass.

I'd just use the .284. Easy as pie. Resize, trim, ready to go.

[beemer]

The Lee dies size the shoulder back to close to the original size of the unfired round. This would be correct for the 1911 round but not necessary for the K31. There is almost 20 thousands of an inch difference in the shoulder sized in my Lee dies compared to my Redding dies. The cases were very hard to size no matter what press or lube I used not mention the extra work on hard to find brass. I have a bunch of Lee dies and like them but in this case I think the Redding dies were worth the money. Some people seem to have no problem with the Lee dies, I wish I had been one of them. That is my experience and my part of the can of worms.

I have Graf brass and brass made from 284 Win, I've had no problem with either. I think the biggest problem with reloading the Swiss is getting the sizing down right. I try to load like it is an auto, I want it to chamber freely but at the same time not be oversized. One also needs to be aware that these rifles have a very short throat.

The first time I saw a K31 I thought it was ugly, sort of like the first time I saw my old '74 BMW bike, it did not to take long to get over the looks. Both are beautiful, just different.

Hope you enjoy your new rifle.
Dave

[madsenshooter]

CH also makes a die set specifically for the K31. I prefer to work the brass less. I have to agree with beemer, it takes a lot more effort to size a case that's been fired in a K31 with a regular 7.5 Swiss die, the first time I did, I thought I had the wrong die in the press or something. It must've really taken some force to size those 284s down in one. The CH die sizes the fired brass minimally, leaves me a .470 shoulder.

[jack19512]

I didn't know if I had kept any of my old K31 targets so I checked and indeed had kept a lot of them. This post is just for those that are interested in shooting your K31 using the Lee dies and/or 284 brass. As far as sizing the 284 brass goes I don't know about others but I have had no trouble sizing or otherwise. Also my 284 brass has been reloaded quite a few times with no discards yet. These are older targets as I have not shot my K31 in a while after moving into reloading for my revolvers. All 3 shot groups were from around 70 yards and I never did finish working up my my loads for my K31. I do have a couple shot from 100 yards if anyone is interested.

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a63/jack19512/4.jpg
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a63/jack19512/3.jpg
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a63/jack19512/2.jpg
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a63/jack19512/1.jpg

[Echo]

Received the K31, and it looks like it had been rode hard and put up wet - scratches & dings all over the stock, &cetera. I understand the Swiss used them to pound tent pegs, knock the snow off their hob-nailed boots, and so on. But

Once I ran a brush and a swab w/Ed's Red, the bore looks great. And the action is smooth and slick. Waiting on my dies, but haven't ordered my brass yet.

More as it happens...

[jack19512]

I think most of them have the beat up stocks. Both of mine were like that but they look better now.

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a63/jack19512/K31s-1.jpg

[legend]

nice job jackly,your top one and mine could be twins,fun wasnt it?

[jack19512]

Yes it was fun. My camera is not that good. They really do look much better than in the pics.

[vincewarde]

The Lee dies size the shoulder back to close to the original size of the unfired round. This would be correct for the 1911 round but not necessary for the K31. There is almost 20 thousands of an inch difference in the shoulder sized in my Lee dies compared to my Redding dies. The cases were very hard to size no matter what press or lube I used not mention the extra work on hard to find brass. I have a bunch of Lee dies and like them but in this case I think the Redding dies were worth the money. Some people seem to have no problem with the Lee dies, I wish I had been one of them. That is my experience and my part of the can of worms.


OK in the dumb question department, why not simply adjust the sizing die (back it out) so that it doesn't push the shoulder back too far for the K31? Why would this not work for dies intended for the 1911?

Thanks!

[mike in co]

OK in the dumb question department, why not simply adjust the sizing die (back it out) so that it doesn't push the shoulder back too far for the K31? Why would this not work for dies intended for the 1911?

Thanks!

the die when backed out a lot, still sizes a bunch of the body.

which is why there is a k31 die...redding

[beemer]

vincewarde

Mike is right, the difference is in the dia. of the body at the shoulder. The dies for the 1911 size the body down almost 20 thousands of an in. smaller than necessary for the K31. It has nothing to do with the shoulder or accuracy, just working the brass and hard sizing.

Another thing I have found, if the body is sized that much the shoulder moves forward and has to be bumped back so it will chamber freely. When worked that much the brass has to go somewhere and that is forward. All you get is more work hardening and trimming.

Dave

[mtgrs737]

I bought the Privi loaded rounds to get the brass for reloading, I paid around $17 per box of 20 at gunshow and Midway. I also got the Redding die set made just for the K-31 so as not to over work my brass. When the NOE 7.5 K-31 Group Buy Boolit mould comes in I will work up a load and have a set of Lee Collet dies modified by Lee to correctly size the neck and seat the larger dia. boolit so that even less work hardening of the neck is done. Those K-31 rifles are sweet and on my "Best Buy" list!

[1874Sharps]

mtgrs737,

You are sure right about the K31 being on the best buy list! The price has predictably gone up a bit since they flooded the market a few years back, but even at current prices they are a deal. The mechanism of the action is intriguing and precisely made, as one might expect a rifle made by the Swiss. I wish the buttstocks were not all beat up on the milsurp K31s, but they were used by the Swiss, not just stored in armories.

[Possumcop]

vincewarde:
The best way I know of explaining why partial resizing with a standard die won't work on cases fired in a K31 is to look at it like trying to size a .257 Ackley Improved in a standard .257 Roberts die. The datum points are in the exact same place on both cases and the case necks are the same length. The diameter at the shoulder is much greater on the improved case; so much so that before the case neck even begins to be sized, the case shoulder has already been reduced in diameter quite a bit.
I read an article about 35 years back (when K31s were priced at $800 to $1000, if I recall correctly), the author said that the Swiss had actually been planning to producing a higher pressure, more powerful "GP34" loading to take advantage of the increased action strength and better head support of the K31. The larger shoulder diameter was supposed to prevent use of the hotter load in older, weaker rifles. According to the author, the idea was abandoned due to the start of WWII, I'm not sure if the article was correct or not, but I haven't been able to find anything to substantiate it, despite numerous efforts to do so. I can't remember the author or the name of the publication I saw this in.
Echo:
I've been very happy with the Prvi Partizan brass, its fairly hard, about like the older Winchester commercial brass and it lasts for many reloadings. I wouldn't waste any time in ordering, it seems like every time Graf's runs out of the Prvi 7.5 Swiss, it takes 6 months to a year before they get restocked. If you decide to purchase loaded ammo, check out AIM surplus, they have the Prvi 174 grain FMJs at $13.50 a box, $13.25 if you buy 10 or more boxes, Graf's current price is $16.59.
As far as dies, I'd recommend getting a set of the Lee dies, a Lee Factory Crimp Die and a Redding, Hornady or CH K31 sizing die. Most of my loading is actually done using my Redding size die, but rounds loaded in the K31 type dies won't work in the Swiss, waxed cardboard and aluminum six round stripper clips (they look a little odd, but work slicker than spit on a doorknob, kinda like the rifle itself). You might also try a set of the neck sizing dies, I have tried them but haven't really liked them in the K31, full power loads expand the cases too much and the tight cases detract from the creamy smooth bolt operation, this might not even be an issue with lower pressure cast boolit loads however (an area I'm about to explore, I'm just getting back into casting after an 18 year hiatus). Although I usually shoot my K31s with irons, I suggest that you get one of the St. Marie, no drill, no tap, scope mounts. It really helps in getting your loads dialed in, besides, there's a certain joy in taking a seat at the range near a guy shooting the latest Remfedchester .300 Superduper Magnum, the condescending looks that you get tend to disappear once they see your targets, and if you REALLY want to be mean, steer the conversation around to cost!
Have fun with your new rifle!

[Echo]

I checked Graf's last night, and they showed the PRVI brass in stock, so I ordered 500 for about $200. Am still in a quandry re the sizing die. I have a Lee set on order, should receive it today, and am anxious about excessive sizing. I am going to query Lee re the sizing issue.

Again, thanks to all of you for your help.

[mike in co]

I checked Graf's last night, and they showed the PRVI brass in stock, so I ordered 500 for about $200. Am still in a quandry re the sizing die. I have a Lee set on order, should receive it today, and am anxious about excessive sizing. I am going to query Lee re the sizing issue.

Again, thanks to all of you for your help.

sorry i don't understand your quandry...

there is only one die for the k31. neck sizing with a lee will result in aprox 50% or so body sizing.

if you have a k31, buy k31 dies...not 7.5 swiss dies (k31 is redding only that i know of)

and lee will tell you the dies will work for a k31...they are right..but you will be doing a lot of unnecessary work to the brass to make it work.
( i bought lee, redding,rcbs,lyman...only redding is correct..a k31 die)

mike in co

[mtgrs737]

I'm with Mike on the Redding K-31 dies, they will work harden the brass the lest of the full length dies. If you plan on using only cast boolits in the rifle you can get a set of Lee collet dies that neck size only and that will work the brass even less and may be more accurate also. Good luck and enjoy a fine rifle!

[Bob S]

I have a Lee set on order, should receive it today, and am anxious about excessive sizing.

Don't sweat the small stuff. The Lee dies will work fine. Get the Redding dies if the situation is going to stress you out and make you lose sleep, but you don't need them. I've been reloading 7.5 x 55 and 7.5 x 53 for 6 K31's, 3 Lg 1889's, 2 K11's, and five Lg 1911 and 96/11's, for eleven years with reformed 284 cases and a set of pre-historic CH dies. Some of my "lots" of cases are approaching 30 firing/FL resize cyles and I have not had to discard a case for any reason yet. YMMV .....

Resp'y,
Bob S.

[swheeler]

look at it like trying to size a .257 Ackley Improved in a standard .257 Roberts die. The datum points are in the exact same place on both cases and the case necks are the same length. Quote by Possumcop

"and the case necks are the same length" I don't think so!

[mto7464]

I checked Graf's last night, and they showed the PRVI brass in stock, so I ordered 500 for about $200. Am still in a quandry re the sizing die. I have a Lee set on order, should receive it today, and am anxious about excessive sizing. I am going to query Lee re the sizing issue.

Again, thanks to all of you for your help.

I use the Lee dies, just make sure you lube them properly. Had a friend that didn't and guess what?
I anneal mine after 5-6 loadings, maybe I don't have to but it is easy to do and so far I haven't had to throw any brass away.
I have both a k31 and 1911 so the Lee dies are the best for me. I try to limit the amount of money I spend on reloading equipment on firearms that I won't shoot that often. Now on my Service Rifle AR that's a different story, only the best will do.

[1874Sharps]

I have been shooting and reloading for the K31 for about five years or so now and have simply not encountered the troubles that some report. I use the Lee dies and neck size to the point that the shoulder is barely touched. I have not seen any premature brass failure (neck splitting), as much of my brass has been loaded 5+ times and is still going strong with full house loads. I am sure that specific, purpose built K31 dies are great, but I just have not had the problems that some report with the standard Lee dies. They load great ammo and in fact, I whacked a deer with a paper patch boolit launched from my K31 back in late November.

[mike in co]

I I use the Lee dies and neck size to the point that the shoulder is barely touched. .

its not the shoulder that is the issue...if your lee die is "neck" sizing to just before the shoulder, you are also sizing most of the body....cause that is where the difference is.....so you are not neck sizing.........

try "neck" sizing with no lube on the body........

(it the die says 7.5 swiss...that i whats happening)

[1874Sharps]

Now Mike, I am on your ignore list, as you told me anyways. You would do me a favor if you kept your word on this.

[mto7464]

I've tried neck sizing with the Lee's and for me it can't be done.

[mike in co]

Now Mike, I am on your ignore list, as you told me anyways. You would do me a favor if you kept your word on this.


no you are not,

mike in co

[1874Sharps]

You told me I was on your ignore list. If you have taken me off, would you please reconsider and put me back on?

[B747]

Don't sweat the small stuff. The Lee dies will work fine. Get the Redding dies if the situation is going to stress you out and make you lose sleep, but you don't need them. I've been reloading 7.5 x 55 and 7.5 x 53 for 6 K31's, 3 Lg 1889's, 2 K11's, and five Lg 1911 and 96/11's, for eleven years with reformed 284 cases and a set of pre-historic CH dies. Some of my "lots" of cases are approaching 30 firing/FL resize cyles and I have not had to discard a case for any reason yet. YMMV .....

Resp'y,
Bob S.

Good info --- and have had similar results with the 284 Win. brass.

When loading mild cast target rounds for the Swiss rifles, I set the Lee collet die to only size the neck in a .001" or so --- just to the point where I can't easily turn or pull the bullet out.

After a number of firings if the case gets difficult to chamber --- I use a 7.55 sizing die that I cut the top off of right at the neck / shoulder junction (can't size the neck if that's not there) and use that to push the shoulder back a little until it chambers easily again. Every year or so I anneal the cases just to ensure the neck tension stays consistent.

With mild cast loads and sizing these 284 Win cases like this --- they will not only outlast me but probably my Grandsons as well.
Wally

[RugerFan]

I've got an old "Pacific Durachrome" die set in 7.5 Swiss that has been working fine for my K-31