Where do you find this surplus powder?

[Abert Rim]

You guys are always talking about these various, cheap surplus powders, but I never see them in gun shops or gun shows around here. Are you ordering them and paying hazmats and still coming out way ahead?

[NuJudge]

Be careful, these powders have considerably more lot-to-lot burning rate variation than do commercially available "canistered" powders.

If you're not burning a LOT of powder, leave this stuff alone, as the savings aren't that much. If you are going to start with something, start with something at least loosely related to commercial "canistered" powders such as "Pull-Down" 4895, as it will be at least vaguely similar to powders you can get lots of data on.

Usually, the vendors of these bulk powders supply very fragmentary loading data, as well as data on the approximate burning rate of the powder and likely uses. Sometimes the powder is loosely or very loosely related to some commercially available powder. Perhaps someone else can provide their experience. Start your load work-up low, and work up gradually, watching for sudden pressure changes. A lot of these surplus powders are "Ball"/"Spherical"/globular, and are more of a challenge than stick or flake powders.

http://www.gibrass.com/index.html

http://iidbs.com/hitech.zkb?root&GENMENU61&object-menu6

http://www.patsreloading.com/patsrel/whatsnew.htm

http://www.wideners.com/itemview.cfm?dir=278|283|313

Christopher Dingell

[Buckshot]

...............Go to Castpics.net, then Reserch & Reference, then Load Data. OR, simply ckick here: http://www.castpics.net/RandD/load_data/load_data_index.htm

Here you'll see quite a bit of load data for maybe 20 cartridges or more. It was all generated by members of the cast board at Shooters.com. Of course much more has been done since then, and there have also been new powders becoming available, like IMR7383 to name one.

As Nujudge warned, lot to lot variations of this surplus powder in general varies more then does commercial canister powders.

One other thing is that if max velocity is your goal you may not find it at safe pressures with surplus. Not that the surplus powder is bad or dangerous, but simply because there isn't as wide a variety of it and the holes in burning rates between powders can be huge. Like going from 4198 and the next closest being 4350, like that.

However it seems that the surplus stuff is kind of clumped in it's performance. You'll have several fast ones, several medium ones and then a few slow ones.

Most the powders run between $8 and $10/lb before shipping & haz mat. Locally canister powders run right at $20/lb.

Some of the most usefull powders to me have been:

WC820: (several lots) Mag or high performance pistol

SR4759: One lot, and just like 'real' SR4759 (if still avail)

WC844 and WC846: (couple lots) Military 223 and 308 powder

PD4895: I've found it just a tad slower then canister. One of the very best.

WC852: (couple lots, only one avail now) great powder for heavy cast

WC860 & WC872: (couple lots) Lot diffs don't seem to mean much. Really slow ball. Great for full case cast with heavy slugs, and full case jacketed. Nice powder for the 6.5 and 7mms with cast (partial caseloads).

Once again, check castpics.net

..................Buckshot

[PatMarlin]

PD4895: I've found it just a tad slower then canister. One of the very best.


I second that emotion.. :drinks: :Fire: :drinks:

[Abert Rim]

Thanks for the comments, guys. Think I'll have to find someone to split with though ...

[David R]

I think Hi tec will pay hazmat if you buy 4 jugs. I got a freind to buy one jug of WC820. Should have kept it. That is good stuff and is the same lot as mine. It works close to 2400 for me in Peestol loads and rifle loads. Claims to be like H110. My best groups from a savage 308 are a full case of WC860 and a 190 grain cast boolit at 1770 fps with a standard primer. Hovers around an inch at 100 and 5" at 300. This is without weighing boolits. ONLY 52 clicks up from 100 to 300 yards. I also bought some 4895. Premium good stuff in my 22-250 with J booilts. Going to try it in the 223 and see what happens.

Go For it! Just be careful. Act like you don't trust it until you are fimilar with how it burns in your application.

In MY 44 mag, I loaded 23 grains 2400 and get 1373 fps. 23 grains of MY WC820 brings 1389 fps. Ruger Super Red Hawk 8 3/8" barrel.

[JohnH]

Accurate Arms (www.accuratepowder.com) handles quite a few surplus powers and has data for them. Go to the site, slick on "data" then click on "surplus powders"

Most surplus comes from military stocks. So the ranges Buckshot refered to are a result of what works well in various cases being used in military arms world wide, but that is not the only source. Thing about surplus powders is that even with the hazmats, it is possible to cut your costs by at least 1/3, allowing a lot more shooting for the same dollar.