Elmer's Boolits in Marlin .44 Magnum

[NVcurmudgeon]

I have only two .44 moulds, so far. RCBS .44 240 GC and RCBS 250K PB, with apparently identical noses. I have not been feeding them through the magazine because all you have to do is throw the cartridge in the general direction of the ejection port and slam the lever. Last night, for no particular reason I tried magazine feeding and to my astonishment it did not work. At the first micro movement of the carrier the nose of the boolit hit the front wall of the receiver and I had to go fishing with a small screwdriver. Five solutions occured to me:
(1) Send it back to Marlin. Yeah, right. They'd send it back and say "don't use handloads."
(2) Take it to a gunsmith. I've known two honest and competent gunsmiths in my lifetime. One of them is dead and the other is 150 miles away.
(3) Try to improve feeding by working on the action myself. That would only lead to (1) or (2) above.
(4) Shoot .44 Specials. Huh? BUY brass, with the range knee-deep in once-fired .44 Magnums?
(5) Trim cases until something good happens.
Tinkering with dummy rounds until feeding was satisfactory took very little time. I eventually shortened the cases to 1.265" (.010" shorter than nominal "trim to" length.) Seating either of the Keith-style boolits with the case mouth in the crimp groove made feeding from the magazine 100%. I can only say that both Marlin and you guys on the board have been very quiet about this situation. Has everybody else been single loading, too?

[blackhawk44]

Marlin 94's are totally unforgiving of any round over book length (like long nosed Keith bullets) and usually have indigestion with almost any semiwadcutter. Even if they feed a SWC, they usually cut part of one edge off. If you can find a mold for a RNFP that will load under maximum overall length, life should become much easier.

[Scrounger]

That subject has come up several times before. Every rifle is a little different as to what length it will feed. Trimming cases so you can use the crimp groove is one solution. Another is working on the lifter or some other part in there that will allow longer rounds to feed. Most guns are around 1.63 inches in allowable cartridge length, some a little more. I have a good set of instructions on tuning up the action and helping it feed better. If you'd like it, send me your email. Now you-know-who will post the definitive answer, proving me wrong once again...

[StarMetal]

Is this just a problem with the 44 cal 94's? I have the cowboy 94 in 45LC and I load the 255 gr RCBS SWC and the Marlin feeds it very well and doesn't nick the edge off the bullet shoulder either.

Joe

[Bass Ackward]

(5) Trim cases until something good happens.
Tinkering with dummy rounds until feeding was satisfactory took very little time. I eventually shortened the cases to 1.265" (.010" shorter than nominal "trim to" length.) Seating either of the Keith-style boolits with the case mouth in the crimp groove made feeding from the magazine 100%. I can only say that both Marlin and you guys on the board have been very quiet about this situation. Has everybody else been single loading, too?

Curmie,

That's the easiest option. Now you know why I designed a 225 grain RNFP bullet.

If you keep a nose length of .300 then you are safe. This works through my 92 and the 1894PG. I stopped at 225 grains because that is the maximum length / weight for a 38" twist. Now I am not saying that heavier won't go bang, but that's the ideal especially if you want to slow it down some. I put a .120 drive band on it so it fills my handguns too. That helps with ignition on the lighter bullet.

It works with everything tried so far.

[NVcurmudgeon]

Bass, How did I miss the development of your 44-225 RNFP? I'll blame it on the trials and tribulations of changing Cast Boolit sites. My 1894 has soared to the heights of mediocrity, accuracy wise. It will shoot CB into 2.5" @ 50 yards, yet is one of those magical just right guns that seems to shoot just about as well offhand. Now that I have solved the previously unknown feeding problem, it may be time to address the question of boolit length and twist. I shoot 7.0 gr. Green Dot in this rifle (1200 fps) and use the same load in an 8 3/8" S&W 629 (900 fps.) This is an excellent load in the Smith, and as good as any in the Marlin. Where do I start looking for discussion of your boolit?

[Bass Ackward]

This is an excellent load in the Smith, and as good as any in the Marlin. Where do I start looking for discussion of your boolit?

NV,

My bullet design was never really discussed. I did it on my own when I planned to get both the 92 and the 1894. Because it is to be used in 4 guns at present, it needed to be as close to generic perfection as I could realisticly make it. I enjoy being able to develop and use one set of ammo for all guns as many times as I have trod off with the wrong stuff.

I have mentioned it from time to time, mostly when I was surprised that it exceeded some expectation. Or when I was telling Felix what I came up with while he was working on his design for his 41. It is nothing special by design, but in application, it was worth the money. Because this delimma exists only the 44 Mag, I can see why some guys turn to the 41.

I have owned maybe 20 something 44s to date, 10 of which have been rifles. I have beat my head off the wall trying to get accuracy out of the rifles when what I was really doing was trying to beat stabilization. When all you have to do is find accuracy, the project becomes a lot easier.

Someday, if you deside that you want to make something, feel free to PM me and I'll give you the figures I used to show you what I came up and you can take it from there.

[BCB]

NVcurmudgeon,

I had the same problem with my Marlin 1894 except it is a 357 Magnum. I am shooting the 358429 bullet. I trimmed the cases short enough to allow crimping in the crimp groove but still allow them to cycle from the magazine to the chamber. I set my dies to the correct length for a 38 Special. Then I ground a washer thin enough to put on the die to allow it to seat the 358429 in my shortened cases. I then use the washer that came with the RCBS die set to load "regular" 357 Magnums that I shoot in my Security-Six. The accuracy in the Marlin is very, very good, so I don't mind the extra bit of effort. Good-luck...BCB

[Singletree]

Bass Ackward,
I have read your post here and have gained knowledge from you again. I have the Marlin 94, 44 mag. and also S&W's 44 mag. and special. I was on the verge of ordering a bullet mold from Mountain Moulds, had the design all worked out for a 250 gr. bullet. Didn't even think of rifling twist. The Marlin requires a long front driving band to fill the long throat, which measures .433 as does the cylinder throats on the S&W's. You have saved me the cost of a bullet mold that wouldn't work in the Marlin. Have I missed anything else in mold design for these guns? Thanks again.

[Bass Ackward]

Bass Ackward,
You have saved me the cost of a bullet mold that wouldn't work in the Marlin. Have I missed anything else in mold design for these guns? Thanks again.

Singletree,

Ah ..... I don'twant you to change your design on acount of what I wrote. When I help anyone design a bullet, I more or less give them things to think about so they can answer questions based on their needs. Because I am not an expert.

There are two factors to RPMs, twist rate and velocity. A 250 will work well if you drive it. And there are points where a 250 or a 280 grain are justified and you just live with what you get accuracy wise. But I have read a lot of NV Curmie and believe that he is into paper punching more than any other purpose. So you need to bear that in mind when I mentioned that to him. But it does make a difference.

The problems with going heavy is that in order to make it as stable as possible, you need to keep the weight on the back of the bullet. Ideal with a semi wadcutter design. But sometimes they have trouble chambering and deforming, sometimes they don't. And if you go heavy having to keep nose length, then you rapidly lose case capacity. Delicate balance, but I pretty much pass on heavies anymore saving what I do shoot for my wheelers.

Hope this helps.

[Singletree]

Bass,
Yup, it sure does help. Anytime I save the cost of a mold that won't work, it's a good thing. I've already bought molds that cast .456 for a 45-70 that requires .460, a mold that casts .374 for a 38-55 that requires .381, a mold that casts .428 for a .44 that requires .433. Been there, done that. I wish the mold guys would talk with the gun guys and kind'a set a standard. Anyway, whine off.
Thinking about it, the biggest thing I'll shoot with the .44 will be antelope, and I don't think 25 grs. weight will make any difference. Of late, I been occupied with shooting big groups on paper, trying to make them into little round groups. So, the 225 gr. mold will be just the ticket. Again, I really appreciate your input. If one reads the posts here with the idea to learn something, thats usually what happens.