3006 to 308 chamber inserts.

[Four Fingers of Death]

has anybody tried one of these? I picked up a Remington M17 with one. The only ammo I have had a chance to try in this is some Malaysian ex mil. It seemed hard to chamber and kicked like a mule, even though the old M17 weighs a ton.

[Buckshot]

.................I personally have not. The US Navy used inserts for their rifle team M-1's to go from 30-06 to 308. I've heard that it is possible for one to follow an empty out of the chamber. I have also heard that Loc-Tite or epoxy have both been used to stop that from happening.

.................Buckshot

[Four Fingers of Death]

I've spoken to many military rifle shooters here who used to use them, mostly in garands when we were trusted enough to own them, but I never paid much attention because I never envisioned owning one. Got this one by accident.

[Bob S]

The Navy Rifle Team never used any Mk1-0's. (Mark One, Mod Zero) Those rifles were an "experiment" with the 7.62 inserts (actually two different configurations), and it was considered a failed experiment. Both inserts required reaming the chamber, since the 7.62 case diameter at the shoulder is larger than the equivalent longitudinal position on the 30-06 case. The "press-in" inserts that pop up every now and then leave the 30-06 chamber dimension at the .308 shoulder. This gives enough reisitence to chambering that a slam-fire is a possibility with a semi-auto. They will also come out with the extracted case on occasion. The only Navy use (other than the experiments) that I am aware of is that the Navy Honor Guard's 03A3's had the chamber insert (the simple press-in one) so that they could fire 7.62 blanks. That's it.

The Navy Mk2-1 ("Mark two, Mod One) that was my service rifle, and the Team rifle for awhile, was made with new 7.62 barrels manufactured at Springfield Armory in 1964-1965, and provided to two contractors who did the conversions. One was Harrington and Richardson, at the corner of Pleasant St and Park Ave in Worcester, Mass (and known as "Harrington and Rubbish" to us locals); the other was AMC, or something like that. The only Mk2-1 Secnav Trophy rifle I kept is an H&R, here are the barrel markings:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v76/BobS1/Mk2_1barrelmarkings.jpg

I have heard of several guys that have used the inserts in bolt guns without any "incidents". You have to remember, though ... you get an extra 1/2" of freebore over and above what throat wear the rifle may already have. Don't expect to win any matches with it.

P.S. H&R did make some very good stuff; sometimes they got a bum wrap because of the inexpensive shotguns and small handguns that they made in the early 20th century.

Resp'y,
Bob S.

[Four Fingers of Death]

Sounds like a job for a separated case extractor and ebay. I'd rather shoot the M17 in it's original 3006 form anyway. Mick.

[versifier]

Mick,
First off, it's hard to chamber because the chamber wasn't recut to .308. That's a good thing in my opinion. I don't know why it kicks.

If you want to remove it, there are three possibilities.
1. It is press fit, in which case you can remove it with a broken shell extractor and you're lucky. :-D
2. It is epoxied or Loc-Tited in place, in which case you simply have to heat it to get it to release. I have had good luck with a propane torch on the bottom of the action where it won't affect the bluing.
3. It has been soldered in place. If so, you can probably see a discoloration from the torch. This is rare, but I have read of it being done to repair a damaged chamber. You might have to pull the barrel to remove it without damaging the action. :( I'd be looking for a new barrel if this were the situation.

Another good suggestion that I read about but have not needed to try myself is to tap it and leaving the tap in place, drive the sucker out with your metal bore slugging rod. I have seen this technique used to remove a broken case from a sizing die, and also have read of it being used when a broken shell extractor was not available to remove a head separated case from a rifle's chamber.

[Four Fingers of Death]

The ammo kicks like a mule because it is MG ammo I think. Our F4 ammo increased in power when we stopped using the FN-FALs an only used the ammo for the GPMG60s.

I will try and get it out neatly, some one will buy it, I have lots of 7.62 mil ammo to get rid of also. thanks.

[Larry Gibson]

The ammo kicks like a mule because it is MG ammo I think. Our F4 ammo increased in power when we stopped using the FN-FALs an only used the ammo for the GPMG60s.

I will try and get it out neatly, some one will buy it, I have lots of 7.62 mil ammo to get rid of also. thanks.

It kicks harder because most M2 ammo (very little M1 or M72 ammo left to shoot) with the 150 gr bullet actually mostly runs 2525 to 2650 fps instead of the presumed 2700 fps. On the other hand NATO spec 147 gr 7.62 ammo WILL run 2750 to 2800 fps out of 24" barrels. It goes faster ergo it kicks harder.

There was no such thing as NATO 7.62 "machine gun ammo" loaded hotter than regular NATO Spec 7.62. Some countries loaded 7.62 down for the FALs but it was not NATO Spec.

Larry Gibson

[SharpsShooter]

4fingermick,

I have a 03 with the insert you speak of. I recently bought a broken shell extractor from Midway for around 9 bucks. I haven't had a chance to work on it yet, but I'm told by several knowledgeable gunsmiths that the heat to the bottom of the chamber and shell extractor are the way to go. If I have a spare moment in the next day or so, I give it a go and pass along the results. They cannot be worth a thing for accurate shooting.

SS

[SharpsShooter]

Well, I had some time this afternoon to attempt to remove the conversion insert from my Springfield 03. I ordered a broken shell extractor from midway some time ago for $9 if I recall correctly. The instructions say to simply chamber it, closing the bolt and then open the bolt to remove a stuck case. Obviously those went out the window as the Insert is a bit tighter than a headless case. I removed the bolt and inserted the removal tool into the chamber and helped it along with a long nylon drift and a whack with a mallet to be sure it was firmly in place. I secured the barrel in a padded jaw vise and began to apply heat to the chamber area with a propane torch focusing mainly on the area of the shoulder. I took a smooth steel rod that has been padded with masking tape and attempted to tap the case remover and hopefully the insert out by inserting it into the muzzle and giving it a couple of good whacks with a 16oz hammer. I managed to drive the tool out on two occasions but without the insert affixed on the removal tool. I believe it was hot enough to release epoxy, if that is what the folks who put this stupid thing in to start with. I’m sure the tool was getting a good bite as it is somewhat rounded on the engaging lips now. It is possible that it was silver soldered in and if that is the case, I don’t have enough heat to do the job on hand here. At any rate, off it goes to the smith for a professional work up.

[Four Fingers of Death]

I suppose if the worst comes to the worst we could get the chambers cleaned up with a reamer, can't hurt accuracy. Mick.

[SharpsShooter]

I suppose if the worst comes to the worst we could get the chambers cleaned up with a reamer, can't hurt accuracy. Mick.


I just got an answer to an email I sent to a gunsmith friend regarding these cursed adapters and he says that most were at the least soft soldered in and at worst, silver soldered. He advises to remove the barrel from the action and run a reamer in to clean it up properly. Even if you managed to get it hot enough to release, the job would still leave rough surfaces in the chamber that would haunt you later.

:coffee:

[Four Fingers of Death]

Bugger!