45 from 40 cal brass - possible?? [Archive]

acoilfld

01-02-2010, 11:29 PM

What would be needed to form 451-452 jacked bullets from 40 S&W brass?
I have been interested in swaging for a while, and would like to give it a try - if possible.
I have over 3000 40 cal brass sitting in a bucket here. + about a hundred pounds of pure lead (from x-ray plates).
Could I use my RCBS Rockchucker press for this? Where would I get the dies?,
Sorry if these are basic questions, but I do not know a lot about what would be involved.

Thanks in advance for any answers anybody could give to me.

AC

BT Sniper

01-03-2010, 12:49 AM

CH-4d has the 45 cal cies. I havn't tried that caliber yet. reccamend the 101 series.

It has been said the 40 will make a .452, havent seen it yet. Hae seen the 45 acp sized down to .452

Grapeshot

01-11-2010, 09:14 PM

After you anneal the .40 cases they will swage up to .452 or .454 very easily. I've done so with .40 S&W cases in the past and they make good .45 Colt or .454 Casull slugs and will expand when they his muscle and bone.

BT Sniper

01-11-2010, 11:22 PM

I did the same thing over the weekend. It worked great.

acoilfld

01-12-2010, 12:33 AM

Would the RockChucker press work for this?
Other than that would it be just a matter of die's?
Thanks

David2011

01-12-2010, 01:10 AM

Ooh! Wasting all that .40 brass like that? My avatar gun needs .40 brass!

David

acoilfld

01-12-2010, 01:20 AM

Ooh! Wasting all that .40 brass like that? My avatar gun needs .40 brass!

David

If you were closer I would send a bunch to you :smile:

It's a long way from Northern British Columbia to Texas

johnlaw484

01-12-2010, 01:48 AM

Ooh! Wasting all that .40 brass like that? My avatar gun needs .40 brass!

David

OH NO not wasting. Someone has finally figured out a way to improve the .40. Actually makes it worth shooting. [smilie=1:

Bullshop Junior

01-12-2010, 01:52 AM

Bullshop Junior

01-12-2010, 01:56 AM

Ooh! Wasting all that .40 brass like that? My avatar gun needs .40 brass!

David

You need 40 Brass? Boy, I get sick of looking at it we have so much. The cops shoot at a gravel pit about 10 miles from here. (On the way to town, and where we shoot long range) when ever we go there it is laying all over the ground, and My dad can not stand not to pick it up. No body else does. Any way, we have piles of 5 gal buckets full of 40 brass.

I thought every one had enough 40 brass to sink the titanic.

Bullshop Junior

01-12-2010, 01:57 AM

oh no not wasting. Someone has finally figured out a way to improve the .40. Actually makes it worth shooting. [smilie=1:

right on!!

Daywalker

01-12-2010, 03:07 AM

I don't think that Rock Chucker is the best chose for that.........

If you do not think a rock chucker would be the best choice, what press would you recommend?? I have not bought another press for this yet, will be using CH dies and was thinking of the rock chucker. If there is a better press than that I would like to know. Do not have money for a swaging press and would like to have a second press for swaging and reloading if needed....

Swaging 44mag and 45 acp, later on maybe 9mm

Thanks

BT Sniper

01-12-2010, 03:28 AM

You can see the press I use. Cast Iron Redding but I hate the ram on it. Made of some sort of soft metal. Plus I shortened the stroke, added more leverage and have a biger handel. I got the 40 to .455 with it.

Maybe somone with an opinion on the Lee Classic press will chime in. I would think their 1 1/8" ram has got to be better then the redding. I would think by adding the same improvments to the Lee it might be pretty good. And only like $80 new vs. $120ish for the redding or rcbs.

In my attemps to make a buck or two as well as help everyone as much as possible I hope to have improvment for standard press avialable some day. I know RCE and the LA guy may have these options too.

Good luck in your search. Even though I use the Redding Big boss it has it's design flaws.

BT

Radio Flyer

01-12-2010, 06:08 AM

RCE and Corbin make presses that can use the special dies and be switched over to reloading dies and shell holders.

CH4D has a nice beefy press that would last several lifetimes.

http://www.ch4d.com/catalog/images/Champion.gif

I have the classic cast and the classic turret and like them both, I think the classic cast would work with CH4D dies for .355 to .455 without a big problem, that notched handle adjustment piece could be the only problem. You can see on this photo on the lower left where the handle connects...

http://www.leeprecision.com/graphics/shoppingcart/LEFTCLASSIC.jpg

I obviously could buy any additional press I wanted after all my Corbin equipment but I bought the Lee Classic presses because they fit the need fully and I like the turret press.

I have some friends that in the past would talk about how great their press was or how beefy and there was nothing better - that is UNTILL they would look over the Corbin presses - case closed, I think the reaction would be the same with the CH4D press, it is just so much more than the other reloading presses.

ANeat

01-12-2010, 11:01 AM

The Lee cast press just has a piece of tubing for a Ram. The top piece/shell holder threads into the tube. The piece where the bottom linkage attatches is crimped onto the tube.

Like RF mentioned where the handle attatches doesent handle the side loads very well. I busted mine de-rimming 22rf brass. The material is a very brittle investment casting of some type as are the linkage pieces; MIM I would guess.

I ended up moving the pivot point on the linkage and so far its holding up very well, less stroke/more leverage

BT Sniper

01-12-2010, 01:36 PM

"The Lee cast press just has a piece of tubing for a Ram. The top piece/shell holder threads into the tube. The piece where the bottom linkage attatches is crimped onto the tube."

This could be a very good thing for a swaging press IMHO. Take out the threaded shell holder and insert a custom made threaded base punch. This solves so many problems of trying to swage bullets with a base punch that fits in a shell holder. Eventually the slot the slell holder fits in getts warn out and leeds to the swage base punch not lining up with the die then all sorts of bad thing s start to happen You ding the base punch so it is no longer square and this is transfered to the base of the bullet. You can imagine what the base of a bullet with an unsquare surface will cause. Poor accuracy!

The Lee clasic cast is becomeing my top choice for an unexpesive swaging press and I havn't even seen one yet. At one point when they first came out you could pick them up for like $50.

Now lets just design a better linkage and handel an I think it would possibly be perfect.

Here is the threaded ram I made. So much better to screw in the base punch. This must be similar to the lee. Anyone know the thread size of the Lee ram for the shell holder insert?

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu87/BTSniper/2009_1228bullets0015-1.jpg

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu87/BTSniper/2009_1228bullets0002.jpg

richbug

01-12-2010, 02:02 PM

Anyone know the thread size of the Lee ram for the shell holder insert?

.995"-20 TPI

I didn't realize how thin the ram wall was on mine till just now. I might end up making a new one.

BT Sniper

01-12-2010, 02:13 PM

Thats pretty big for the threaded insert. Does the .995 hole extend the entire length of the ram. An actuall tube?

"The piece where the bottom linkage attatches is crimped onto the tube." So there is no bolt/pin running threw the bottom of the ram that conects to the linkage. Well makes sence I guess how would the primers fall threw then right!

OK so maybe the Lee Classic cast ram is not the perfect choice either. With a soild ram and better linckage maybe but still........... everybody taking short cuts it seems in todays indistry. I'll have to check out the CH press now. Yes the corbin is probably top notch and best suited for swaging but I still made a standard reloading press do everything I need with enough power that I can brake a die befor hurting the press.

BT

richbug

01-12-2010, 02:39 PM

Thats pretty big for the threaded insert. Does the .995 hole extend the entire length of the ram. An actuall tube?

Yep, tube, looks like .100" wall, hard to measure as there is a big burr the whole way around the inside.

Looks like the through hole is about .925"

ANeat

01-12-2010, 02:46 PM

Yea its a big piece of tubing, like .090 thick.

Hang on Ill put up some pics

ANeat

01-12-2010, 02:54 PM

Here you can see how thick the tubing is

http://www.castboolits.gunloads.com/picture.php?albumid=153&pictureid=1763

Here is the bottom of the ram

http://www.castboolits.gunloads.com/picture.php?albumid=153&pictureid=1762

And here is how the primers fall thru the bottom, the pivot points go part way into the hole.

http://www.castboolits.gunloads.com/picture.php?albumid=153&pictureid=1761

Now remember this is a reloading press, not a swaging press. A person could probably never wear it out doing normal reloading.
Start swaging, using cheater bars and such, then you will start finding the weak spots

acoilfld

01-12-2010, 03:57 PM

I am going to take a better look at my RCBS press tonight . I thought that they were known for strength and would be at least as strong as the lee previously posted.

I am having trouble posting a picture of my press [smilie=b: so I will post a link to it at RCBS instead.
https://shop.rcbs.com/WebConnect/MainServlet?storeId=webconnect&catalogId=webconnect&langId=en_US&action=ProductDisplay&screenlabel=index&productId=2842&route=C04J146

Thanks for all of the info so far - I will get this figured out yet

BT Sniper

01-12-2010, 04:27 PM

I like my stock rockchucker. I was able to swage wheel weight alloy core 44s with it quite easily. I think it is plenty strong for any bullet swageing needs.

I am trying to figure out the best press for the price to recamend to the people new to the hobby of swaging. Either one of these is good in my book.

But...... I did look at the CH press and it may be just about perfect in my opinion. At $280 I would have to evaluate my needs as it is approaching corbins in cost. I like how it has a 1/2-20 threaded hole for shell holder insert or swage base punches. Same thread size I chose for my custom ram as it turns out.

BT Sniper

01-12-2010, 04:32 PM

Closer look of that Lee ram sure makes me want to put a solid piece of steel in it's place. Then a stronger linkage between it and the handel and it would be perfect too. Still I know you got a great deal and a great press with a lot of potential ANEAT. We will work on getting you a stronger ram for it if you like.

ANeat

01-12-2010, 06:19 PM

Im not going to put a lot of effort into the Lee, I should have a Walnut Hill press here before too long ;)

The nutcracker de-luxe

Bullshop Junior

01-12-2010, 06:27 PM

If you do not think a rock chucker would be the best choice, what press would you recommend?? I have not bought another press for this yet, will be using CH dies and was thinking of the rock chucker. If there is a better press than that I would like to know. Do not have money for a swaging press and would like to have a second press for swaging and reloading if needed....

Swaging 44mag and 45 acp, later on maybe 9mm

Thanks
I would get a old Herter.

Daywalker

01-12-2010, 07:19 PM

BT, have you taken a look at the Hornady Lok n load classic press? It is cast alloy and seems the linkage closly resembles the linkage of the CH press you speak of. 130.00 at midwayusa. What is your thoughts on this one??

BT Sniper

01-12-2010, 08:05 PM

I'll take a look.

Aneat can you post a pick of what the shell holder looks like that threads into that larger 1" hole? Are those arms that connect to the ram alunimum or steel?

Thanks

ANeat

01-12-2010, 08:19 PM

Ill have to get the pics later, but its real similar to the top few inches of the ram in your pics earlier, slotted for a primer arm and grooved out for the shellholder. The linkage is some kind of sintered metal like their mold handles. I wouldnt call it steel. When I bored the second set of holes for the linkage the metal just crumbled out, no real chip at all

bohica2xo

01-12-2010, 11:02 PM

The biggest weak spot on the Classic Cast for BT's application is the crimped joint on the bottom of the ram. It is likely to seperate using his ejector system if too much force is applied in the "pull" direction.

The pins on the sintered arms should hold up ok. If they do fail it would be simple enough to fab links with a through bolt from mild steel.

A solid ram would be simple enough for that press too.

B.

ANeat

01-12-2010, 11:36 PM

I think if I was looking for a single stage to convert it would be the Redding just from what Ive seen.

I thing the Lee could work but it really needs a lot of modifications.

Its a little odd the way its setup to dis-assemble and if you put a solid/one piece ram in there it will make it very difficult to dis-assemble.
On the original, removing the top portion of the ram allows you to drive out the top pivot pins, that must be done to get the remaining linkage off.

A solid ram, and new linkage with removable pivot points would make it pretty nice

acoilfld

01-13-2010, 01:39 AM

Here are some pictures of the Rock Chucker that I would like to use. Maybe I am missing something, but from the pictures posted so far - it looks just as strong (I have been wrong before :)).

It is well used and dirty, but still tight.

http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg57/acoilfld/100_1763.jpg
http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg57/acoilfld/100_1760.jpg
http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg57/acoilfld/100_1756.jpg

I will clean up the bench this weekend - honest :mrgreen: