Barrels

[Marlin Junky]

It's time to rebarrel a couple .35 caliber rifles and I'd like to get some input on barrel configuration and vendors so I can build the ultimate (in my mind) .358" boolit gun.

I'm seeking the pinnacle of performance and am pretty much convinced at this point (I could be wrong) that I need a barrel resembling those Marlin used on their early round bolt guns in .35 Remington. I'm going to limit myself to a 250 grain boolit with this rifle as it will be a light weight sporter; and, for the most part it will be fed large doses of 360-220 (probably about 225 grains ready to fly in my HT'd alloy).

I'm convinced I need a 16" twist but I'm not sure which vendor to approach so I get the best type of rifling. I'd like to go with a .348/.358", 7 groove configuration. This would be the same number and depth of grooves as the old Marlins but a hair tighter diameter.

Thanks for listening...
MJ

[runfiverun]

m.j have you seen the three groove bbl ben has?
iirc it's in 358 win.
i have the 358 win hawkeye and it shoot lights out with the 245 saeco right out of the box.
i think 4 groove cut rifling is all you need with cast as long as the rifling is a decent depth.
my opinion of why microgroove is difficult with cast is just the rifling height.
the 92 clones do well with smaller rifling but 6 grooves so the height diff is made up.
but there is something there to grab the boolit and hold it while spinning it.

[grouch]

I'd try Ron Smith at Wimborn, Alberta, who makes gain twist barrels popular with the plain base bullet competitors. I have one in .30 - 30 that gets me into the game in the CBA postals using a P - 14 action. Shot 4 consecutive 5 shot groups today that averaged 0.755" at 100yds. Have done better, hope to do better, barrel certainly not the limiting factor.
Grouch

[softpoint]

I have 2 hunting rifles in .358 Winchester, one is on a Model 600 action, and one is on a 700Remmy. Both have Shilen barrels. Both have shot under 1" on occasion, probably would do it more often, but I don't inspect and cull my boolits as closely as the BR guys do, either.
Both mine have 1/14 twist barrels. I thought that would be a good twist, and I'm happy with it. I have a 358009 mold that casts about 287 gr. and both my rifles love that boolit. And I have the Saeco 245gr. mold and the 200 gr. RCBS. The Saeco shoots just about as good as the big 358009, and the RCBS is no slouch either. I have only used the RCBS in lighter loadings, so I haven't done as much load development with it.
I think some makers make 1/12 twist barrels, and was wondering if I would have to limit myself to 250 grains with the 1/14, but these have worked fine with heavy bullets, even with a few much reduced loads I tried. The 1/16 will be fine, I'm sure with bullets no heavier than 250 gr.:coffee:

[Marlin Junky]

m.j have you seen the three groove bbl ben has?
iirc it's in 358 win.
i have the 358 win hawkeye and it shoot lights out with the 245 saeco right out of the box.
i think 4 groove cut rifling is all you need with cast as long as the rifling is a decent depth.
my opinion of why microgroove is difficult with cast is just the rifling height.
the 92 clones do well with smaller rifling but 6 grooves so the height diff is made up.
but there is something there to grab the boolit and hold it while spinning it.

My .358 Hawkeye is awesome with SAECO 352 (the boolit you speak of) too as long as I keep the velocity under 2100 fps. The same is true for my M77 in .350. I need more speed for the longer shots at mule deer and whitetail on the prairie and the shallow groove, 12" twsit isn't cutting it for me. The alternative it too wrap all my boolits in paper.

MJ

[shooter93]

I've probably used barrels from every notable barrel maker out there. The truth is they all make a good barrel. I have had some troubles with a couple Shilen's though but that's another story. For me Douglas is the best buy out there and they have good delivery times. they can thread and chamber for you or you can have an independent Smith do it. I've bore scoped a ton of barrels from all makers too and Douglas is noticably the smoothest from the start. Pick a maker you like and meets your time frame.

[Marlin Junky]

I've probably used barrels from every notable barrel maker out there. The truth is they all make a good barrel. I have had some troubles with a couple Shilen's though but that's another story. For me Douglas is the best buy out there and they have good delivery times. they can thread and chamber for you or you can have an independent Smith do it. I've bore scoped a ton of barrels from all makers too and Douglas is noticably the smoothest from the start. Pick a maker you like and meets your time frame.

Are you talking strictly from experience with cast boolits? I don't shoot the copper patched ones unless they're from a hyper-velocity varmint rifle... which I don't even own at this point in time.

MJ

[jbunny]

i'm looking for cast boolit barrels too. KREIGER BARRELS are cut rifleing and i cant
remember the 358 barrels but the 44 cal barrels that i want have .006 thou
deep rifleing. enerybody else has .0035 tho rifleing. my problem is finding somebody
that imports them into canada. check them out.
jb

[shooter93]

Mj...I've built rifles for both types of boolits and those just for cast, I think Douglas is a very good buy. Nothing against the others at all but Douglas is generally my first choice anymore and they have always been great to deal with. You can buy standard or air guaged but I think it takes a very good gun to tell the difference, I never found a difference in a sporting gun.

[Nrut]

i'm looking for cast boolit barrels too. KREIGER BARRELS are cut rifleing and i cant
remember the 358 barrels but the 44 cal barrels that i want have .006 thou
deep rifleing. enerybody else has .0035 tho rifleing. my problem is finding somebody
that imports them into canada. check them out.
jb

http://www.riflebarrels.ca/
He posts at CGN as Obtunded and is a dealer on CGN..
Have you gave any thought to Ron Smith?

[runfiverun]

mj i use between 48 and 50 grs of rl-19 behind the saeco in my 358 not sure of the vel as the last two times i drug the chrono out it was too windy to set it up but the groups held fine shooting between gusts.
i ain't gonna look for any more velocity than that though, as it's about all the recoil i want.
if scott recommends the douglas i fully believe his recommendations.
the only 2 aftermarket bbls i have installed so far have been douglas, and i have not been disappointed.

[mpmarty]

PO Ackley wrote about custom barrels years ago and as I recall he said:
"You can buy a barrel that has been air gauged and found good enough not to need straightening or you can buy one that is still crooked after straightening. ":violin:

[Ben]

I built a 35 Ack Imp Whelen about 5 yrs. ago using an A & B .35 cal. barrel. The rifling was way to shallow in that barrel. That barrel never did shoot cast well. My 358 Win. with the 3 groove barrel done by Jesse in OR is a cast bullet shooter's dream rifle.

Rifling height .005 " Jesse can make a very accurate barrel !

Ben

[jbunny]

Ben; i sent u a PM regarding Jesse contact info
thanks
Louis

[SCHUETZENBOOMER]

The 1-16" is for the 200 grainers. Consider a 1-12" or 1-14" twist. I think this will work much nicer with the 250grainers. I have an old 9x57(sort of 35ish) commercial Mauser with a 1-10 twist that will put 'em(NEI 363-300) in the same hole at 75. The 9x57 has some of the deepest rifling I have ever seen. Bore is .345" groove is .361". This same rifle will shoot 250gr jacketed .358's into 1MOA all day long. I am shooting <2000fpm as I am afraid of breaking this little beauty's at the wrist.


All my .35 barrels are Shilens and I have never had a letdown. A&B has let customers down a dozen times.

[Marlin Junky]

i'm looking for cast boolit barrels too. KREIGER BARRELS are cut rifleing and i cant
remember the 358 barrels but the 44 cal barrels that i want have .006 thou
deep rifleing. enerybody else has .0035 tho rifleing. my problem is finding somebody
that imports them into canada. check them out.
jb

I have and they are a contender; however, the .358" has only .004" tall lands... which are probably tall enough because the rifling is indeed cut... and I can have a 16" twist. I can't find how many grooves their .358" barrels have though.

MJ

[felix]

You can have any depth with cut barrels. Just ask. ... felix

[Marlin Junky]

mj i use between 48 and 50 grs of rl-19 behind the saeco in my 358 not sure of the vel as the last two times i drug the chrono out it was too windy to set it up but the groups held fine shooting between gusts.
i ain't gonna look for any more velocity than that though, as it's about all the recoil i want.
if scott recommends the douglas i fully believe his recommendations.
the only 2 aftermarket bbls i have installed so far have been douglas, and i have not been disappointed.

My best groups with the M77 in .350 (virtually the same barrel as my .358) have been right around 1900 fps or a tad more, which is probably where your Re19 load is. 50 grains of Re19 may push you past 2000 fps but not by much. If SAECO 352 held more lube, accuracy might hold at 2100+ but why work so hard to live on the edge of accuracy when all I should need is a barrel change. Besides, I'm looking for another 300 fps.

I'll take a look at what Douglas has to offer.

MJ

P.S. Looks like Douglas only offers 10, 12 & 14 inch twists in .35 caliber. I can't find groove depth info on their website but it looks like the barrels are 6-groove.

[Marlin Junky]

You can have any depth with cut barrels. Just ask. ... felix

Felix,

That's true and I have asked Krieger. The problem is, I don't want to go over .358" in the grooves and Krieger didn't have a .348" deep hole drill when I asked last year. Perhaps, I need to ask again.

MJ

[shooter93]

Douglas typically runs 4 thou. grooves MJ.

[targetshootr]

I have a 30-30 Marlin barrel off of a 336 going unused. lt could be rebored to your 35 cal specs and you're good to go.

[felix]

http://www.bartleinbarrels.com/

He will make any barrel you want. Ask him about giving you a 0.001 choke at exit. ... felix

Ask him if he will accept that 336 barrel in 30-30 and use it. Offer a non-guarantee required by you, though. His machines no doubt are calibrated for his steel(s). ... felix

[Marlin Junky]

This thread has sort of run amuck... sorry if I wasn't clear about want I wanted to do. The reason I mentioned my old round bolt 336 in .35 Remington was because it is the best cast boolit shooter I own. What I want to re-barrel is a Ruger M77.

Sorry for the confusion,
MJ

[rockrat]

What about Obermeyer, Hart, Lilja or Badger? I would look hard at Lilja.

[jbunny]

This thread has sort of run amuck... sorry if I wasn't clear about want I wanted to do. The reason I mentioned my old round bolt 336 in .35 Remington was because it is the best cast boolit shooter I own. What I want to re-barrel is a Ruger M77.

Sorry for the confusion,
MJ
take a close look at the m77. i had a 44 mag that somehow the atomactic
machinery at ruger got askew and the barrel wasn't straight in the action. i could not get this this to shoot any better than shot gun type groups. then one day while looking at this thing in disjust, i notice that the scope didn't point true to the barrel.
and it was off quite a bit. ruger made good and i got another rifle.jb

[Marlin Junky]

take a close look at the m77. i had a 44 mag that somehow the atomactic
machinery at ruger got askew and the barrel wasn't straight in the action. i could not get this this to shoot any better than shot gun type groups. then one day while looking at this thing in disjust, i notice that the scope didn't point true to the barrel.
and it was off quite a bit. ruger made good and i got another rifle.jb

My .358 and .350 M77's shoot very well at under 2100 fps... especially at under 2000 fps. They are both 12" twist barrels with 6 relatively shallow grooves and I want to get away from that barrel configuration in .35 caliber. These are barrels that are better suited to Lyman 358009 than what I want to shoot; e.g., 200 to 250 grain boolits as fast a possible.

MJ