The new old SXS 12 ga

[peter nap]

As if I didn't have enough projects, I was at one of my favorite gunshops this afternoon.
This is one of those Old shops that has stuff they haven't seen for 20 years and, they are good to work with.

While looking around, I ran across an old hammer double with those classic European lines I love.

It had a note on it that said Black Powder only..$200.00

I looked it over and the barrels were Damascus and it was marked Belgium Twist on the rib. I'd give the bore a high fair mark.

The right lock was working fine but the left has some issues. First the hammer was loose. That means someone has rounded it some or the spindle has rounded a bit. Easy fix. The hammer was twisted to the right too far and I suspect that's the cause of the loosness. Last, while it will cock and the trigger will release, something is keeping it from making the full travel to the firing pin. I'll need to pull the lock to see about that.

The rib is good on the barrels . Belgium are tougher than English because they were brazed instead of soldered.

The stock is in good condition with no cracks or looseness. Someone tried to refinish it many years ago...(It has a patina) and sanded over some checkering.

Firing pins are good and the lockup is tight.

I love Black powder shotguns and this is in good enough shape to be really fun, and cheap enough to use.
I paid $150.00 for it including a box of Federal 209A primers (Which is why I went in there)

Someone rechambered the rlght barrel because it measures 3" and the right
2 3/4.

It's marked J Reynolds and under the forend, has a crown. as well as JR and a 9 on the rib. The forend has an 8 and a crown and the barrel lug has an 8 and crown.

I don't know enough about antiques to know what all that means, but I'll figure it out. First order is pull the lock and see what's going on.

[peter nap]

Pulled the locks off and like I thought, the right lock is OK.

Both locks have been rebuilt and as far as it went, a pretty good job. It looks like whoever did it, got tired and didn't finish the left. There are some other problems with the left also.

http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa57/peternap/l1-1.jpg

Problem number one is that the hammer retaining screw is stripped and it looks like the hole in the tumbler is also.

http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa57/peternap/l2-1.jpg

There are a couple ways to fix that including making a new tumbler . I expect I'll just reweld it and rethread since I don't know if the rebuilder hardened the parts anyway.

The next problem is the hammer is bent. That's an easy fix. It's turned slightly inward and back. I'll just heat it and realign it, then bend it down far enough to hit the firing pin.

http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa57/peternap/l3-1.jpg

The left firing pin has been replaced also and it wasn't fitted correctly. That shouldn't be a problem after I get it out. I've never taken one of these old pins out before. I suppose there is a special tool to remove it.

The only other problem I found was the screw that holds the extractor in place is sheared. that's just a drill and tap job.

Anyone with suggestions on anything, please jump in.

[longbow]

Peter:

Just to make sure you are aware, the old hammer guns (at least those I have seen and owned) had rebounding hammers so they did not sit on the firing pin. Kind of like a half cock position.

When you pull the trigger you should be able to push the hammer down onto the firing pin then if you let the hammer go it will return to the "half cock" position.

If you are already aware and have checked that and the hammer doesn't contact well, my apologies (hard to tell from the photo). I didn't want you bending the hammer down to contact the firing pin if you weren't aware of this is all.

Are you planning to turn it into a black powder slug gun or use it for shot?

I have always liked side by hammer guns and would really like to make a side by slug gun but the budget says "NO" right now.

Looks like you have yourself a fun project.

Longbow

[peter nap]

Peter:

Just to make sure you are aware, the old hammer guns (at least those I have seen and owned) had rebounding hammers so they did not sit on the firing pin. Kind of like a half cock position.

When you pull the trigger you should be able to push the hammer down onto the firing pin then if you let the hammer go it will return to the "half cock" position.

If you are already aware and have checked that and the hammer doesn't contact well, my apologies (hard to tell from the photo). I didn't want you bending the hammer down to contact the firing pin if you weren't aware of this is all.

Are you planning to turn it into a black powder slug gun or use it for shot?

I have always liked side by hammer guns and would really like to make a side by slug gun but the budget says "NO" right now.

Looks like you have yourself a fun project.

Longbow


Yep, I know that Longbow. This is the first BP Cartridge gun I've done but I've been building and re building locks for years.

The picture you see is the full extent of the hammer travel. It stops short a half inch from the firing pin.

The right side firing pin was missing the rebound spring but I replaced that about an hour ago,

I thought about turning it into a slug gun or sleeving it for a 45/70 ot 90 or 120....but I have 6 dedicated, rifled slug guns and I'd like quail gun.

Since it has a Damascus barrel, I want to keep the loads on the light side so it seems like the perfect candidate for an old fashioned bird gun.

Back in the 80's, I gave my father in law an unfired Fox Sterlingworth that I got from a missionary. He had all his guns stolen and wanted a new shotgun.

That got stolen also (His second wifes son was a drug addict o draw your own conclusions)....but I've always wanted a bird gun that balanced like that. This one is close and has hammers to boot.

[longbow]

I kinda figured you would know but thought I should mention it just in case.

If you are looking for black powder cartridge loads this may be of use if you haven't seen it. I think it was posted before but here goes anyway:

http://www.tbullock.com/bpsg.html

Longbow

[peter nap]

I hadn't een that Longbow.
Thanks!

[peter nap]

Here are the proof marks on the barrel. The one is the Belgium,Liege mark. I don't have a clue about the others. Any ideas?

http://news.oldva.org/wp-content/gallery/the-old-shotgun/proof.jpg?1946872647

[longbow]

Peter:

I just took a look for "Belgian proof marks" and came up with this:

http://damascus-barrels.com/files/Belgian_All_Proofmarks.pdf

Some of yours are here.

Wait... here are some more:

https://store.bluebookinc.com/Info/PDF/Firearm/Proofmarks.pdf

Longbow

[bohica2xo]

It is likely that both chambers have been re-cut - or they are just very sloppy.

That gun was probably 2 5/8 or 2 9/16 chambered to begin with. This is a good thing if you plan to shoot it anyway.

Star crimped 2 3/4 shells are easier to load on modern equipment. Personally I would just cut the shorter chamber to match the long one - it lowers the pressure spike anyway.

I have loaded a lot of black powder shotshells in my lifetime. My dad owned several nice damascus guns. His position was "Why not shoot this beautiful Parker?" So it was load black powder. I cut a lot of paper hulls off to roll crimp them @ 2 5/8.

The "sort of" black powder made things much easier. I have had great sucess with "Shockley's Gold" (American Pioneer powder) loaded in plastic hulls with a star crimp. You still need to measure the stuff by hand into the case, but it loads nice & shoots so clean!. I can clean the bore with some aqueous based solvent in the field, oil & clean the next day without issue.

Dad is long passed, but I still go screw up the skeet field on his birthday. 16 gauge LC Smith with pseudo-black powder. Sure pisses off the Lexus-over/under crowd...

B.

[peter nap]

A couple more pictures of the project gun:

http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa57/peternap/sa1.jpg

http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa57/peternap/sa2.jpg