A model 1937 Remington Rangemaster 22rf redeems itself

[Buckshot]

...............A couple weeks ago the Burrito Match was again a battle of scoped 22RF's off the bench. There was 5 of us and only me and Larry were shooting sporters. I had my M582 Rem with a $69 blister packed Bushnell 3-9 and Larry was shooting a newly aquired Win M72 with an old Weaver 4X.

Us 2 lowlifes were competeing against 2 Win M52 match rifles and the Remington M37, which is also a match type and is a rifle I've lusted after for several years. The scopes on those 3 rifles were a Leupold, Lyman Super Targ-Spot, and a Unertl.

The winner (one of the M52's) shot a 100-8X with some RWS ammo of some type. The other M52 was 2nd, I came in 3rd with a not too shabby 100-3X, the other sporter was 4th and poor old Glen with his magnificent M37/ Lyman was last with a 95.

The whole reason for the story is that Glen was a bit upset and couldn't figure out his problem. I suspect he felt it might need to be cleaned as he called from his bench:

"Hey, Rick. How do you take the bolt out of this Remington?"

My reply was:

"I don't know, but if I owned it I probably would."

He was lauging when he asked what was I trying to say :-). I don't know if he ever got it out or not. However this past Tuesday he had the Remington with him. Due to various reasons it was only Glen and I there (we were supposed to shoot centerfire pistols). Since we didn't have a match I just got in some practice and shot the S&W M&P in 38 S&W for fun.

Glen was complaining about the accuracy again from the Remington and said he'd cleaned it really well. I asked him what he was using and he said Federal Lightenings. Now someone may get good accuracy from them but I never had so I suggested they might be his problem. And to put a point to it, they obviously weren't working.

In my rangebox I always have a brick of Win Dynapoints and my MkII Ruger, so I suggested he try some of those. Neither of us had any other RF ammo so what the heck? I handed him the box and continued my messing around. In a bit he turned from his rifle and sai to come look at this 5 shot group. I looked through his spotting scope and in the X ring was a 5 shot group with 4 rounds in a tiny hole maybe a bit smaller then a pea with one just out for maybe 3/8" total.

Not bad for $9.63/brick stuff, eh?

He said, here you sit down and shoot 5 (we were at 50 meters). I was kind of nervous as the Lyman 24X really shows up your heartbeat. The crosshairs have a tiny dot at their intersection that just fit inside the X ring. The trigger is such that yuo can feel it against your finger and when you think, "That looks good" it goes off. So I did my striving best to put 5 into the X ring.

And so I did. I managed to put one betwen his group and the flyer and I just clipped the bottom of his group with 2 more and the other 2 went through the existing hole. Altogether I suspect the group now was a scant half inch. All 10 rounds were well within the 5/8" X ring. Glen took a look and was pretty happy. To have 2 different people fire 10 rounds of bulk 22RF ammo into such a tight group is pretty nifty.

I gave him the rest of that brick of ammo. It increased my desire for the Remington and re-inforced my liking for Winchester Dyna-Points. I have one un-tapped case and maybe another 6-8 bricks comprising 3 lots, so who's to say what they might do? I sure don't see it getting much better! Of course my Rem 582 won't do that, but it does do a very satisfactory job none the less.

..................Buckshot

[Catshooter]

There went any chance of your gettin' that rifle young man!:-D


Cat

[45 2.1]

Rick-
You ever try out Paco's Accuruzer (it's on Leverguns home page) You need to if you want to win from those guys.

[Bent Ramrod]

Buckshot,

You take off the M37 bolt by opening the bolt, pulling it all the way to the rear, and putting a piece of stiff wire (I bent a piece of brazing rod to clear my scope) into the little hole just ahead of the bolt at the bottom of the race. Push the wire down hard, pull on the trigger and pull the bolt the rest of the way out the rear. No problem whatsoever for the average 3 handed Remington 37 owner:mrgreen: .

Mine really likes Wolf Match Target (oddly, doesn't particularly prefer Wolf Match Extra), RWS R50, and Eley Tenex. Never tried Dynapoints in it; thanks for the tip.

I read somewhere the factory workers called it the "Remington $37," because the company lost $37 on every one they sold. They certainly were desperate to overcome the market dominance of the Winchester 52, but the Depression, the war and the ever-increasing costs made it a relatively uncommon target rifle. It even had a milled 5-round magazine; no stampings. I found the iron rear sight for mine (even though I normally use a scope) but never found the magazine. Usually it comes with a single shot ramp in its place.

If you manage to glom onto one, you will for sure have a great rifle. And that is terrific shooting, too, by the way!

[Hip's Ax]

There were only a little more than 12,000 37's ever made, I too have heard the $37 story and frankly I believe it. Another story I heard was that it was the 37 that forced Winchester to develop the 52C as the 37 was womping the daylights out of the 52B. I shoot a lot of smallbore competition, over the years I have accumulated 3 37's, one I had turned into a no compromise prone gun, one is a hot rod from the 1960's era with Johnson barrel, Dunlap thumb hole stock and a Thomas trigger. The third is original configuration (but the numbers don't match) except I still haven't found a 5 round magazine I'm willing to pay for. 37's are still seen regularly on the firing line of any prone shoot, I was at a shoot last weekend and a fellow with a 37 won. Below is a pic of my two "new" prone guns, the top is a Ray Morgan and the bottom is of course, a 37. Both have Kenyon triggers, Karl Kenyon did the barrel as well on the Morgan and Ken Klienendorst did the barrel on the 37. Both were stocked by Alex Sitman of Master Class stocks. The Morgan has one match under her belt and I'm still waiting on a higher front sight block for the 37 so I can get her in the middle at 50 yards. Lovely rifles 37's, I love it when one of the kids with his Anschutz spacegun asks me "Whats up with that bolt handle?"

http://www.masterclassstocks.com/photos/popup/060108006.jpg

[Bent Ramrod]

Hip's,

Wow, nice rifles!

Just tell the kids the 37 is overengineered like the Brooklyn Bridge. Supposedly the receiver and bolt could hold the pressure of a .30-06 Springfield round.

Mine has a Canjar trigger on it. It isn't very original, having had the barrel shortened a couple inches and a different serial numbered stock on it. However, I won't be ready to complain about it holding down my scores any time soon.

[Bob S]

Buckshot said:

"I was kind of nervous as the Lyman 24X really shows up your heartbeat."

That's why you learn to shoot between heartbeats. Seriously.

The ROTC unit where I went to under graduate school had a whole slew of Win 52B's, and one Rem 37. The army seargants that were supposed to be opening the range and coaching the cadets weren't real motivated for that. There were a couple of us Navy "vets" on the GI bill (and definitely NOT in ROTC!) who were over 21 and did the chores in exchange for some gov't ammo. We used to shoot after the cadets were done, and that Rem 37 was my favorite.

Resp'y,
Bob S.

[Buckshot]

..............Catshooter, "There went any chance of your gettin' that rifle young man!"

He offered the rifle to me a couple years ago for $500, sans scope but with the Redfield irons. I didn't have the scratch at the time and spent several weeks trying to rationalize the purchase. I didn't shoot competition and it would be a beast to lug in the field. Naturally I talked myself into it and when I said I'd take it, he said he'd changed his mind about selling it. I consoled myself with the fact that I had lived okay to that point without it :-)

....................45 2.1, "Rick-You ever try out Paco's Accuruzer (it's on Leverguns home page) You need to if you want to win from those guys."

I have a really nice Martini:

http://www.fototime.com/0D9C2F993D188A9/standard.jpg

I've used on several occasions to whup up on'em with, but it's not scoped. I still might have been able to take'em with it anyway, as once shooting some Eley 10X I shot a 3/8" group at 50 yards (5 rounds, not 10). But danged if I wanna pay $10/50 rounds for what we're doing. I'll have to take a look at Kelly's dealiebob anyway.

...............Bent Ramrod, I don't know how much of an expert ole Glen is (remember he couldn't get the bolt out!) but he'd said that Winchester was forever chasing Remington's trigger in the 37. Re: Dyna-Points from what I understand these were made specificly for K-Mart and for a long time you could only buy them there. The issue as to their availability had come up some years back. Our old rangemaster showed up one day and said he'd just bought 3 bricks at Wal-Mart.

Now K-Mart DID still sell them and at $12.99/brick. Seems Wal-Mart was selling them at $9.63/box. One problem was that all they ever seemed to have on hand was 2-3 bricks. Well, you buy it that way and each time it's a different lot number. I had at one time maybe 7 different lots on hand. I finally got fed up and ordered a case. This generated a rather long and frustrating story I won't relate here, but I DID finally get my case after MUCH aggravation dealing with a group of total incompetants in the form of Wal-Mart employees.

I'd gone through a pretty comprehensive test of 22 ammo once. And that was for hunting ground squirrels and crows when I lived in the boonies. While Dyna-Points proved the more accurate, I also found out that Remington Vipers did almost as well (for the most part) but did better on the varmints. To end that story what I eventually found as the 'ne plus ultra' squirrel medicine was the Lee C309-113F's. These fired from my M03A1 Springfield over IIRC 10.0grs of SR7625. Not any noisier and almost as accurate, but best of all any kind of a hit and it was nighty-night to Mr.Squirrel, as they'd sure roll'em up.

Twice-Twos are funny creatures in how they treat ammo. What they like and don't, etc. One of the former Burrito Shooters who has moved to Arizona has a Marlin M60 autoloader (which out of the box is 10 times the rifle the 10/22 is, IMHO) was a darn tack driver with CCI Blasers. Nothing I own whould shoot those for beans, and his Marlin sprayed Dyna-Points all over?

Another wierdness was this:

http://www.fototime.com/C5FB50E8EC6585A/standard.jpg

One of the old pistol guys at the range sold it to me, and where ya gonna buy a 22 for that with no paperwork, at least here in California? At first it was nothing to talk about accuracy wise, but I didn't really expect much. Your basic Western Auto advertised 1960's special complete with painted on forend tip :-). However it was a good honest all steel rifle and even the extractors were milled steel. I felt it worth fooling with.

http://www.fototime.com/508E0AF2D51AA06/standard.jpghttp://www.fototime.com/FC441C8BB73B7AE/standard.jpg

After studying the action out of the stock I fabbed up a stud like thing to add a second action screw behind the existing one. Then I bedded the action and floated the barrel except for a small pad just ahead of the action. Then I stoned the sear and clipped a coil off the trigger spring. Danged if that didn't turn it into a really decent shooter.

Where the wierdness comes in for this particular rifle is with the Aguila 60gr SSS Super Sniper ammo. I'd bought 2 bricks of this stuff (I dunno why 2 bricks, either). The Rem 582 would shoot then sideways and the Ruger MkII would make 25 yard groups of maybe 2" and they were tipping. The Martini match rifle would do about that well at 50 with evidence of tipping. I've never checked the twist of the old Savage-Stevens but danged if it won't shoot them into an inch at 50 yards. It might even do better but I was using one of those cheap $9.95 22 scopes that came with it.


.................Hip's Ax, Beautifull rifles! A bit of money invested there, eh? Our club started a once a month 22RF benchrest competition here 6 months or so ago. They even put up a Wailing Wall, :-). I saw one of the guys cleaning his rifle after some practice one Tuesday. What a beast. A blue and white plastic stock, big fat stainless barrel and an action that looked as big as a Savage M110, all topped with a scope as big as a culvert.

One of these days I'd like to have a Shilen barrel put on my M582 Rem and have the action worked over. What do you think the best chamber would be where I could still use bulk hunting ammo? I want to keep it as a realistic walking around hunter.

.................Bob S, yeah my first experience with the heartbeat thing was the 24X scope I put on my Savage M112 single shot 223. Each lub-dub would move the crosshairs out of the square at 100 yards. Right or wrong (but it worked) was to have the butt just touch my shoulder and to pinch off the trigger. Since the thing weighs 12 lbs, recoil from the 223 was of no consequence. That's the way I've been shooting it since I figured that out.

..................Buckshot

[Bent Ramrod]

Buckshot,

Remington started out with some unnamed trigger design on the 37 and then went to something called a "Miracle Trigger." Perhaps Hip's Ax's stock 37 still has this trigger; a lot of the 37's I see at gun shows seem to have aftermarket triggers on them.

Hip's Ax, do you still have the Miracle Trigger? Is there anything wrong with it? I get the impression from reading old American Rifleman's that a lot of shooters were less than satisfied with it, although, of course, in those days nobody came right out and panned anything.

I used to lurk on the old "Shooter's" site and remember the DynaPoint discussions. Went down to the local Wal Mart and didn't find a one, and the K-Mart here long since divested itself of gun stuff. I have since found two cartons of DynaPoints at gun shows. One is a blue oblong carton marked "Winchester-Western WILDCAT Dynapoint .22"; the bullets are unplated lead and there is the tiniest suggestion of a hollowpoint at the tips; maybe 0.015" deep. On the bottom of the shell is the stylized "W" of Winchester. The other is a roughly cubical carton, white with red "Winchester" blue "Dynapoint" on the box. The rounds are loose in the carton, rather than in separate boxes of 50, and are plated. The hollow point is smaller in diameter and deeper and "Super-X" is stamped on the bottom of the shells. Both versions are High-Speed.

.22 accuracy, like gold, is where you find it. My .22 silhouette rifle is the remains of a Stevens 414, the receiver of which the factory bored straight and threaded crooked. In order to refit the barrel to the receiver (had to cut a bulge out of the rifling) I had to thread it extremely deep and it lalooped around and around as I screwed it home. The bore was then off-center from the extractor, so I had to weld onto this part and refit it. Likewise had to make some off-center bases for Stith mounts to have the old Weaver scope line up right. Figured I'd consolidate and get rid of a bunch of odd parts and junk by putting this clunk together, fire a few shots for effect, and unload it to an unsuspecting victim as quickly as I could.

Lo and behold, "Cattywhompus" shoots one-hole groups on a regular basis at 50 yards, and does so with "Wildcat" ammunition at $9.50 per carton. Everything about the gun is wrong, and it shoots like a house afire. I'm going to relegate the Dynapoints to this rifle and this competition, as sometimes a harder hit at a higher velocity makes up for marginal shot placement. The weak point in my silhouette career is not ammo or rifle, but my shaky holding, so it'll be a while before I outgrow this outfit.

[redneckdan]

I was given a remington 512 by one of my dad's friends. When I got the gun, the barrel was so dirty that a .22 rimfire cleaning jag sans patch would not fit down the barrel. I started cleaning it by pouring solvent down the barrel, catching it in a pie tin and pouring it back down. A long session of cleaning rod manipulation followed. the first time I took it to the range, I couldn't hit a pie plate a 50ft, using green tag comp. Took it to a gun smith friend and he found that the barrel was not fitted right into the reciever, said he tried to fix it but it might become a wall hanger. I worried about that gun all week until I got the call I could come pick it up. the 2nd trip to the range was slightly better. I could hit a pie plate but was still disssapointing. It sat in the cabinet for a while until I went out to a gravel pit to waste some thunberbolts. I'll be danged if that gun didn't love that remington thunderbolt ammo. Now that I have a BSA 4x AO air rifle scope on it, I can shoot clover leafs at 25 yds from prone.:-D

[Hip's Ax]

Bent Ramrod: I have a Canjar trigger sitting here as a backup for the Kenyon, I've found most tried and true 37 prone shooters used the Canjar, one fellow just retired his 37/Canjar after an estimated 750,000 down the Hart barrel that he had put on in 1975. In true Ford/Chevy fashion the 52 shooters all seemed to use Kenyons and the 37 shooters all seemed to use Canjars.

Buckshot: Yeah, theres a couple of bucks and a couple of years invested in getting those rifles built. Yes, some of those benchrest rigs can be an amazing sight, I almost went with a Hall or a Kelbly's action but opted for a classic prone rifle. Such a nice feeling to have them after so much time and effort.

Bent Ramrod: Yes, my original configuration 37 has the original 37 trigger in it, bought it for $10 off EBay a while back. The old joke is that it is a Miracle if it works. The original 37 trigger is maybe the worst trigger that ever existed, the trigger on my 513 is better. In all fairness the 37 was made in the time when the 3 1/2 pound trigger rule was in effect, but it is easy to see that the 37 trigger is the simplest of triggers and was obviously made to be replaced.

Ammo and .22's has always been a strange relationship, buying $11 a box ammo is no guarantee you'll get tight groups. In fact its not at all unusual to get cheaper ammo to shoot better than the top shelf stuff. Case in point, a prone shooter friend tried SK Standard Plus when it first hit this country about 4 years ago, he found a lot that would do the deed and then some and bought 5 cases (25,000 rounds) of that lot, at the time this ammo was $1.60 a box. Bobby G kicked my butt many times with that ammo, he laments the day it ran out. You really have to test, not only brands but lots within that brand and then when you find that magic one you buy it all and stack it deep. I usually only buy ammo every couple or few years, 5 or 6 cases lasts me about that long. Takes that long to get over the price paid too. I like most prone shooters test at 100 yards with a scope from a sling, 1 inch is a maybe, less than that is usually purchased to not let it get away (and get used at non regional and non national matches) and those sweet lots that shoot one tiny ragged bug hole at 100, well, you'd gladly sell your reproductive system to buy it all.

A little story how I came by these rifles, I was actually looking for a 52E International action (with the flat bolt handle) and after years of looking I was felling kind of hopeless about the 52 and a friend offered me the 37. It had been his Grandfathers match rifle and had been WELL used. Homemade thumb hole stock and original barrel that had been shortened and rechambered/recrowned a few times and it also had at least four screws broken off in various sight block holes up and down the length of the barrel. Yep, no heart ache with taking this one apart for the action. Well, anyway, I had the 37 project planned and had purchased the Kenyon trigger and had opened up the subject of building the action with gunsmith Ken Klienendorst when the Morgan fell out of the sky. Ray Morgan rifles are a cult item with prone shooters. Arguably 85 were made in the 40's and only about half of them are currently located. This one is number 47 and belonged to the treasurer (Andy) at one of my clubs. On a work day weekend we were repairing and painting the range and he told me he had a Morgan. Well, I about fell over and spouted all the history and stories I had been told by the elder shooters (two of whom still shoot Morgans) and Andy was so happy I knew what the rifle was he offered to sell it to me. I said yes without hesitation and without mentioning price. Turns out Andy had stopped into Navy Arms one day and Val had this sitting in his rack for sale, this was about 1980. Val didn't know what he had and Andy bought it for $200. Andy being a tinkerer had the action and Johnson barrel reblued and put a rail and a hooked butt plate on the stock and then never really used it. He also lost one of the trigger pins in the Morgan trigger (Kenyon did the triggers for about 15 Morgans back in the day but since each Morgan was a little different Karl told Ray Morgan to get stuffed and Morgan made his own triggers from then on) and Andy had made up a replacement but the trigger was really unpredictable as to pull weight. I talked Karl Kenyon into doing a trigger for my Morgan (you do not want to know what he charged me!) and since I had to send him the action anyway told him to put a new 27" stainless Schnieder barrel on it as well. Meanwhile I continued on with Ken Klienendorst and had him built up the 37. Both actions went to Alex Sitman after the respective smiths had finished and after Alex was done I had Bill Earnest make the bloop tubes and Redfield 3200 sight blocks and also the two step front sight bases.
I went through all of this because I wanted to retire my Anschutz 1611 prone gun as my high school coach and good friend sold me that rifle, he had bought it new in 1978 and he sold it to me in 1999 replacing my 1955 Anschutz thumb hole rifle which was now relgated to 3 Position duty only. I put a couple of cases of ammo through the 1611 per year and when my coach passed away I wanted to retire the rifle as it was still exactly the way he used it all during the 70's and 80's. The 1611 now has an honored place in my gun rack, a piece of history that means the world to me as it always reminds me of my coach, the high school team and those carefree days when rifle competition meant everything to me.
In any event since I have only one match with the Morgan under my belt and none with the 37 I don't know which will be my primary prone gun and which will be the reserve yet. I should know after this season is over in September.
On to my other 37's. I bought my first 37 in about 2000, it was sitting in the rack at my local gunshop. I recognised the bolt handle from across the room and asked if it was a 37 and could I look at it. Original 37 stock in really nice shape (didn't know about the serial number stamped in the barrel channel at that time, it didn't match the reciever number) and it had a Johnson barrel and Thomas trigger and the rifle also came with the original 37 rear sight. $600 later she was mine. The next year a good shooting buddy (the same guy with the 750,000 rounds through his 37) told me he had an extra 37 for sale, I asked him to bring it to the next match. Stock barrel, no sights and the original trigger had been modified with a bearing by an instrument maker and a lovely, perfect Dunlap thumb hole stock all contained in a Freeland metal gun case. $400 later that one was mine too. I shot and enjoyed these rifles pretty often and then it occured to me, I had enough original parts and enough hot rod parts to have one assembled in original configuration (all I had to do was get an untouched trigger) and the other would be the spitting image of what the Army Marksmanship Unit was using about 1960. Since the Dunlap stock required that the rear bolt hole be drilled out so the screw could be put in from the top for the Dunlap stock I quickly found out I could not merely swap actions. I had Ken Klienendorst play musical parts and also pillar bed the Dunlap so now I have the two rifles sorted out. Got them back in the dead of winter so I haven't fired either yet but knowing Ken they will both shoot awesome. The hot rod Dunlap rifle will now be my Made In America rifle for that match at the Nationals at Camp Perry. I have assembled a whole MIA kit including matching Freeland rifle case and shooters box, Argus Super Grade spotting scope with Freeland tripod, an original olive drab Freeland mat, a 10X shooting jacket and a Campaign Hat. I might not win but I'm sure I'll be the Belle of the Ball with that set up this year.

Wish I were a good photographer but I'm not, so here's another piture of my new guns off of Master Class's web gallery.

http://www.masterclassstocks.com/photos/popup/060108005.jpg

[Buckshot]

..............If you're 'into' some particular thing, then items particular to that thing will cross your path on occassion, as everyone around more or less extends your reach. I would dearly love to have Glen's M37, but really have no use for it. I don't competitively shoot 22's and it's really not the rifle to be lugging around 15 acres of sprouted oats with, potting ground squirrels.

However, it is such a lovely looking and well crafted rifle that just having it would be nice. Who knows that one of these years I might be able to retire. God willing we'll still have the right to own guns and maybe I'll dabble in 22RF benchrest?

Hip's Ax, in any event you have some very nice looking smallbores there, and I know you prize them highly as the fine instruments they are.

...............Buckshot

[Bent Ramrod]

Hip's,

Those are indeed fabulous rifles, and I find stories of how guns are found (really found, not the high bid on E-Bay or whatever) much more interesting than any animal hunting story. I remember a picture of some lady in the '50's with her Morgan and Cail smallbore rifle; it was obvious that only the creme de la creme of smallbore shooters would be using these.

It's pretty impossible, I think, to be a strict Collector's Item Collector if you're accumulating target rifles. If they were purchased, they were generally used, and the users always stamped their personal preferences as to stocks, triggers, barrels, etc. upon them. A "Factory Original" gun was bought and slung in a closet somewhere; never seriously used.

I wasn't (and still am not) a serious smallbore competitor, but the local clubs have matches and they're fun, and I wanted to find out what kind of shot I was compared to my local peers. Figured I'd better have my own equipment and there was no doubt it would be a 37 after what I'd read about them. I found mine for $250 at a gun show. Somebody had converted it into some kind of International Match rifle (I guess) shortening the barrel, doing a good job of positioning a new front sight block, modifying the original stock to an ugly nonfitting (to me)thumbhole design with a badly fitted Freeland adjustable hook buttplate to the end. At least nobody had bored extra holes in the metal, and it had the original 3-position rail, with a Freeland hand stop and a sling. It had the Canjar trigger attached, and scope blocks, but overall, its ugly-duckling looks had certainly engendered the low price. The tableholder was obviously surprised he had found a buyer. I went away gloating. At the shows around here, they're ordinarily at least $700, and that without sights or accessories.

I had a Lyman Jr. Targetspot socked away and used that for a while, but 8X isn't enough for me to see bullet holes at 100 yds so I got a Litschert Spot-Shot with more power. Found the original rear iron sight at another gun show, grabbed an aperture front at another, and lucked out at a third, finding an original stock in a cardboard drum of miscellaneous rifle stocks marked "$5 each." If you concentrate enough on catalog illustrations, you can spot what you want at gun shows across even a badly lit room, as you noticed your 37 at the gun store. It's like radar, when it works. I congratulate your finding of the original trigger; that I wouldn't recognize even if I saw it. I met some guy at the Santa Barbara gun show a few years back who claimed to have all the remaining parts for the milled 5-shot magazines purchased from Remington, but something was missing; either the sides or the bottoms. I asked him if he was going to get a machine shop to finish the fabrication and he was noncommittal. May be BS, but interesting lore nonetheless. They probably wouldn't be cheap in any case; I found another guy with a bunch of in-the-box magazines for the Springfield 1922; he wanted $90 apiece for them. Yeesh! For an ounce of stamped metal!

Anyway, you'd have to blast me out of bed to go after a deer, and I'm often too lazy for a hike in the woods, but I'm tireless in these urban quests for mechanical artifacts and parts.

[Hip's Ax]

Bent Ramrod, whats a Cail? I have heard of Cavanaugh, Benny, Con Schmidt and have seen a Klienendorst and seen pictures of various Kenyon made rifle actions and have had a report of a few Eric Johnson straight pull smallbore actions but have never heard of a Cail.

There was a famous lady shooter named Viola Pullham (spelling?) in PA many years ago who shot and did extremely well with a Morgan, my friend Terry Lightner has that one now and uses it as his main prone rifle. My other friend Joe Barnes has two Morgans and it is rumored that Art Cook has 3 or even 5 Morgans.


Here's Terry's Morgan off of the same web gallery at Master Class. He went with an awesome piece of California Claro wallnut that has more figure and colors in it every time you look.

http://www.masterclassstocks.com/photos/popup/P1010048_lg.jpg

http://www.masterclassstocks.com/photos/popup/P1010052_lg.jpg

[El Pistolero]

Buckshot, those Winchester model 52 rifles are hard to beat and their made well too!
I've got one with a Weaver Variable scope and it's a tack driver!
The other day I was shooting with some fellas and did pretty well.
See Ya!

David

[Bent Ramrod]

Hip's,

Sorry I didn't respond to your question before. I don't remember where I read it, but Morgan and Cail are attached in my memory somehow. Maybe Morgan made the actions and Cail the rifles or barrels (?) Viola Pullham does sound like the lady's name. I used to read old American Rifleman magazines in libraries (have a few lying around as well); maybe it was in there that I saw the names.

Bent

[Frank46]

Couldn't help myself after reading these posts about 22 target rifles. Those morgans are absolutely beautiful. I have four different target rifles and love each one. My best is a 1946 mfg winchester 52B with iron sights, I also have a 513T with redfield irons, a BSA martini with irons and my last one is a cmp H&R model 12. As you may recall the CMP was selling those for $300 including the redfield palma rear and a international front. The 52B has a kenyon trigger. But the really fun one is the martini. Its really true about 22's being fussy about what they like.
Mine likes russian junior brass cased ammo. I only have about 6 bricks left for the martini and dread when I'll run out. I have a buddy who also bought the kimber from the cmp and the military rem 541X also from the cmp. I am not a competition shooter I just like to shoot them. Thanks for sharing the pictures and stories about 22 target rifles. Frank

[Hip's Ax]

Bent: Not a problem, tomorrow I'm going to a 6400 4 day prone match and I'll ask around about the Cail. These guys will know.

Frank: Wow! A 52B with a Kenyon is a rare bird indeed, Karl hasn't made a B trigger in decades. Yours is the second I've ever heard about. I bought a 52D, a 513 and an M44 from the CMP, I love them all. I'd really love a BSA too but at this point I have so many .22 match rifles it would have to fall in my lap for the right price for me to buy it. Yes, it's a shame that Russian ammo ran out, the Temp and the Olymp were really special stuff. I have a bunch of Junior myself, yes it is remarkable ammo for the price. Try some SK Standard Plus, I think you'll be pleasantly surprised.

[floodgate]

Hip's,

Sorry I didn't respond to your question before. I don't remember where I read it, but Morgan and Cail are attached in my memory somehow. Maybe Morgan made the actions and Cail the rifles or barrels (?) Viola Pullham does sound like the lady's name. I used to read old American Rifleman magazines in libraries (have a few lying around as well); maybe it was in there that I saw the names.

Bent

Dave:

Ray Morgan was the action man; when I lived in New Haven in the '50's, he shared a shop with barrel maker Eric Johnson; I hung out there a lot. I have mentioned before that they offered to make me one from the "over-run" of the .22 rifles they made for the '52(?) Olympics with which our team won the "gold". But as an impoverished student, there was no way.... [*SOB!*].

Doug

[Dale53]

I have REALLLY enjoyed reading this thread. I started competitive small bore in 1954. My first rifle was a Model 52, then almost immediately I ordered a Model 52C Standard barrel with Olympic sights (my father had an FFL and I worked for him in the family business). I later went on to many different shooting disciplines but have NEVER forgotten small bore rifles. I currently have an Anschutz Classic prone rifle (an early one with checkered grip), an East German Suhl prone rifle with two stage trigger (that is REALLY a shooter), a BSA Mk !!, BSA Mk IV, and a BSA Mk V.

In addition, I had the Ballard Frogmore built for an offhand rifle. I still compete with the BSA Mk V at ASSRA (bench only). Just LOVE those smallbore rifles. You can read the story at:
http://www.assra.com/ballard_frogmoor.htm

Thanks to all for sharing your Smallbore lore with the rest of us.

Dale53

[floodgate]

Dale:

I LOVED that "Frogmoor" Ballard when I saw it the first time in the "Journal". How often does one see humor like that enshrined in wood and steel? Well, you do in some of the old German Schuetzens, but those adhere to the Teutonic mantra: "Anything worth doing is worth doing to gross excess!"

Doug

[Dale53]

Doug;
The Ballard Frogmore was my first truly custom "decorated" rifle. It has been a very satisfying acquisition. It shoots as good as it looks.

Dale53

[Frank46]

Hip'sAxe, i bought the 52B about 15 years ago. When I got home and took the action out of the stock the date on the underside of the bbl was 46, I wasborn in 1946 so that rifle will never be sold. The rifle belonged to a shooter on long island new york and thats all the dealer knew about it. The kenyon trigger is almost spooky. Has a wide trigger shoe and is set pretty light. I've been thinking about sending it back to Karl Kenyon and get it cleaned and tuned. Think I better hurry up as Karl is in his eighties last I heard. The dealer also had a few of the shooters other rifles. Pre war model 70 bull gun in 300 H&H magnum, a pre 64 70 in 30-06, Which I bought later, and the 52B plus a springfield armory "T" springfield with the remington bbl. I let the springfield get away from me though. Price was $900 would be worth at least twice that much today. Thanks for the tip on the 22rf ammo. I have about 4000 rds sellier and bellot 22rf that me and my buddy got some time ago. Think that will last awhile. Try Thad Scott's web site, he normally has a bunch of martinis there and from what I can see they are in great shape and reasonably priced. Frank

[Buckshot]

...............Anyone heard of a Frazier? A guy was at the range Tuesday with one he'd just bought at a gunshop in the desert. The action was made by Frazier and the barrel is so marked, but I don't think he made that. It's a hunk of gun for a 22RF.

.................Buckshot

[nighthunter]

What would a real nice 37 be worth to someone today?
Nighthunter

[Frank46]

Funny thing, all through the years that I have been fooling around with firearms I've never seen a model 37. Must be one rare bird indeed. Frank

[Hip's Ax]

Just got back from the Mid Atlantic Championship 6400 at its new home in Palmyra PA. The new higher front sight block I needed for the 37 arrived a few days before I left so I brought it with me. Showed up at the range last Wednesday to practice, screwed the sight block on the 37's bloop tube and shot it some, it felt so good and shot so well I decided to use it for the 6400 instead of the Morgan. Well, I shot way better than I probably ever have including a 1597-141 out of a possible 1600-160 on the last day with the scope, a Redfield 3200 20X with medium cross hairs. Last target of the 6400 was a real bell ringer for me, 200-20X at 100. Got a lot of compliments on that one, saved it too. I'll have to give the Morgan some more time, but its amazing how that darn 37 shoots. Then again is could just have been my turn as "Even a blind hog can find an acorn once in a while". :-D

[Dale53]

Hip's Ax;
Derned fine shooting. It is one thing to shoot well in practice, but quite another to do that well in front of God and everyone.

Congratulations!!

Dale53

[Hip's Ax]

Thanks Dale, sure feels good to do that well once in a while. I've shot higher scores but this is my first time breaking 140 X's. I'm amazed that this worked out, I was prepared to shoot 1560's all year getting use to these new rifles. Nice to know I do deserve that Masters classification I have after all!

[Buckshot]

..............Congratulations! I'm sure that was hard work, as the mental stress and pressure can sure get to ya. What ammo did you use?

.................Buckshot

[Hip's Ax]

I'm using Eley Match Semi Auto this year. It is by far the most popular this season. At less than $800 a case delivered and with the way it shoots almost no one is going near the Eley Tenex at $1100 a case. Most folks look for and test the lowest published velocity lots but mine says 1062 FPS on the box and I have no complaints.

http://www.champchoice.com/pages/invtpics/e150sa.jpg

[madcaster]

I sold a 37 for a friend once,it brought about $600.00 with a Unertl scope and target iron sights,about 12 years ago.
I had bought his 40X .22,wish I had bought the 37 also.
They are sure much higher now.
While I was trying to sell it,I shot it a very little.Offhanded at 50 yards with the iron sights I was popping the heads off daisies.Scary!

[Bent Ramrod]

Nighthunter,

They typically go for $700-$900 here in California; the lower value for a very good specimen without sights and the higher one with a telescope or irons on it. A really expensive scope would of course increase the cost.

I guess I'm "tuned" to Remington 37's because I see them fairly often at gun shows. Nowhere near as often as a Winchester 52 of any era, or a BSA Martini, but much more common than a Stevens 417 or a gunsmithed Ballard. Condition is usually very good to excellent, obviously; no one would drag one through the woods hunting or leave it in the garage uncleaned for decades.

Some of the sales talking points Remington made were that the 37 came stock with the heavy "bull" barrel that Winchester offered as an option on the 52. Also that the iron sights were the same height off the barrel as the telescope sight, allowing the same hold and spot-weld whatever the match.