Handgun Hunting

[JudgeBAC]

This is an interesting article on practical handgun hunting ballistics.

Handgun Hunting Loads-A Critical View :: By J. Marshall Stanton on 2005-09-10

http://www.beartoothbullets.com/tech_notes/index.htm

[44man]

This is an interesting article on practical handgun hunting ballistics.

Handgun Hunting Loads-A Critical View :: By J. Marshall Stanton on 2005-09-10

http://www.beartoothbullets.com/tech_notes/index.htm
A good article. However, more needs to be done as velocity gets higher then 1100 fps.
I have found that over about 1400 fps with a WLN or WFN, hard cast, it will then start to reduce the primary wound channel thus needing expansion to bring back the killing effect.
Good work seems to quit at a certain level when poor results will start to come full circle again.
The .454, .460, 45-70 and many other calibers that are too fast can fail with the wrong boolits/bullets or become so destructive on game you will have little to eat.
I would like to see this carried much farther with actual testing on real game.

[Bucks Owin]

Interesting article. And it certainly makes the case that the .45 Colt shooting a 325 gr at a respectable velocity takes a back seat to nobody! :coffeecom Dennis

[Bass Ackward]

Yep. This is going to be hard seel cause it is so hard not to be macho. :grin:

Regardless of caliber or meplat size, it is the counter productive to cut larger than a 1" hole in anything.

Good killing meplat size for deer peaks around .350. And .300 is just as effective as anything larger if you can keep the strike velocity at 1000 fps or higher.

The faster you want to go, the smaller you really need to be. My 45s carry 60% meplats (.275)now and the over shock symptoms went away.

[Longrange]

I knew I liked my .45 Colt Ruger for a reason.

[44man]

Interesting article. And it certainly makes the case that the .45 Colt shooting a 325 gr at a respectable velocity takes a back seat to nobody! :coffeecom Dennis
How right you are, a wonderful hunting gun as is the .44 and .475 or even the .500's at the proper velocity.
Just a personal choice of a hunting gun. It is when they try to turn a revolver into a 200 yard gun for hunting with super high velocities that trouble comes around.
I would rather hunt with a heavy boolit in the .45 at 1100 fps then I would a .460 with a light bullet at 2000 fps.

[Thumbcocker]

Darn! There goes my plan for a new cartridge the .44 SWIFT a 500 grain boolit at 2300 fps. Seems I recall some fella talking about a .44 boolit at 1200 fps. Wonder what ever happend to him.

[44man]

Darn! There goes my plan for a new cartridge the .44 SWIFT a 500 grain boolit at 2300 fps. Seems I recall some fella talking about a .44 boolit at 1200 fps. Wonder what ever happend to him.
He is sitting home eating venison! [smilie=w:

[targetshootr]

Whenever I see articles like that it makes me wonder why anyone uses gas checks in handguns.

[MtGun44]

Good article.

I tend to agree with targetshootr on why use GCs. Near as I can tell they are only truly
necessary in a few cases where the bore is rough or there is a frame constriction, or
similar oddity. I have many ordinary revolvers from Colt, S&W and Ruger that shoot
full power velocities and accurately with plain base boolits of moderate hardness
with no leading.

I have quite a few GC molds, but only the rifle molds are used any more.

Bill

[44man]

Whenever I see articles like that it makes me wonder why anyone uses gas checks in handguns.
The gas check came about because lead being shot was too soft and something was needed to grip and fit the rifling without skidding past the base. I find I still need them with a 50-50 WW and pure mix but with harder alloys, there is no need for them. I have reached 1800 fps in revolvers with PB and had extreme accuracy with no leading.
The big problem is finding a mold that does not use a gas check because the mold factories are behind the times.
There is still a need for a check if velocities get too high with boolits that need some expansion because of high velocity or in a rifle shot too fast.
If you shoot fast powder and soft boolits, stay with a gas check.
Remember, it is not a lead scraper, it is a seal at the base but you can exceed the seal by driving soft lead too fast, too soon and still get bad leading.
A revolver is sssssooooo easy to figure out but the soft lead shooters will confuse a guy to no end.

[Bucks Owin]

Seems I recall some fella talking about a .44 boolit at 1200 fps. Wonder what ever happend to him. He went to his reward Feb 12, 1984. But if he was still around, I doubt he'd limit himself to that particular ballistic, he'd be shooting the BIG bores I bet, and doing this: [smilie=w: FWIW, Dennis

[vanilla_gorilla]

I must admit to feeling some sort of vindication after defending to my hunting partners my choice of hunting loads. I use either a .357 or .44 Keith boolit at 1100 fps, give or take.

Thanks much for the article!

[Larry Gibson]

If your into PB hard cast bullets then those with the widest meplats are probably the best. However, if you want a little bit better killing power an expanding bullet is even beter. Doesn't have to be a HP as WFN bullets that expand kill quicker as they cause more shock and internal damage. That is why I use a GC cast of a soft alloy like 50/50 WW/lead (4060 is even better) or of 30-1 or 20-1 lead/tin. The GC is necessary for accuracy and to prevent leading at truely magnum velocities from6 - 8 3/8" barrels of 1400 - 1550 fps. Terminal performance is very good and if the bullet is correctly HP'd terminal performance is much improved.

Even in standard cartridges and short barreled magnums a good soft cast GC'd correctly HP'd cast bullet is a better terminal performer than a hard cast bullet. In a .45 Colt my 452490 cast very soft and HP'd at 1050 fps is a very efficient killer with excellent to good expansion out to 50 yards. If it doesn't expand then I still have all the benifits of that SWC. That bullet is also excellent in the .45 AR out of 4 - 6 1/2" barrels.

These are not "cast up a couple thousand and load 'em up and shoot 'em" bullets obviously. Regular harder cast PB'd bullets do fine for that. However the subject of this thread is "Handgun Hunting" and a good expanding cast bullet of SWC or WFN is a quicker killer than a hard cast bullet of the same design. I'm not saying the hard cast bullet isn't an efficient killer, just saying the softer cast GC'd bullet is better. It is enough better that it justifies the extra time and slight expense to make and use them. That's why I prefer the use of GC bullets for hand gun hunting with cast bullets.

Larry Gibson

[44man]

If your into PB hard cast bullets then those with the widest meplats are probably the best. However, if you want a little bit better killing power an expanding bullet is even beter. Doesn't have to be a HP as WFN bullets that expand kill quicker as they cause more shock and internal damage. That is why I use a GC cast of a soft alloy like 50/50 WW/lead (4060 is even better) or of 30-1 or 20-1 lead/tin. The GC is necessary for accuracy and to prevent leading at truely magnum velocities from6 - 8 3/8" barrels of 1400 - 1550 fps. Terminal performance is very good and if the bullet is correctly HP'd terminal performance is much improved.

Even in standard cartridges and short barreled magnums a good soft cast GC'd correctly HP'd cast bullet is a better terminal performer than a hard cast bullet. In a .45 Colt my 452490 cast very soft and HP'd at 1050 fps is a very efficient killer with excellent to good expansion out to 50 yards. If it doesn't expand then I still have all the benifits of that SWC. That bullet is also excellent in the .45 AR out of 4 - 6 1/2" barrels.

These are not "cast up a couple thousand and load 'em up and shoot 'em" bullets obviously. Regular harder cast PB'd bullets do fine for that. However the subject of this thread is "Handgun Hunting" and a good expanding cast bullet of SWC or WFN is a quicker killer than a hard cast bullet of the same design. I'm not saying the hard cast bullet isn't an efficient killer, just saying the softer cast GC'd bullet is better. It is enough better that it justifies the extra time and slight expense to make and use them. That's why I prefer the use of GC bullets for hand gun hunting with cast bullets.

Larry Gibson
True, they kill like no tomorrow but boy did I mess up a lot of meat last season with a 50-50 hollow point! :o

[leftiye]

Yup, and if you make hollow points, it might be good to NOT make them like the Lyman458122 with a hollow point that goes halfway through the boolit. This kind of design in soft lead opens up very quickly, and then loses it's mushroom, sometimes going on again to repeat the failure. A" V" shaped relatively shallow hollowpoint that forms a mushroom that stays put (like an assisted softnose) is mucho betterer.

While we're at it, straight 50/50 that is heat treated to get hardness is much tougher than harder alloys are un - heat treated. AND it can be annealed to soften the nose.

Adding tin (and maybe 1% copper) to your pure if you make the pure lead softnose (two lead two part) type of boolits will toughen up your nose to prevent nose loss and will only harden it a little. (Though 10% tin 1% copper boolits will air cool at BHN18)

[Rodfac]

Leftiye... you said the following...."While we're at it, straight 50/50 that is heat treated to get hardness is much tougher than harder alloys are un - heat treated. AND it can be annealed to soften the nose."

What's your technique for annealing the nose portion? I shoot a lot of Lymans #429215 GC and would like to try it on that particular bullet.

In my guns and one of my son's, (two Rugers, a pr of S&W's and a Marlin 336 Carbine) it's superbly accurate as cast from WW's. I size them all now to .432" to accommodate the Marlin's oversize bore. I don't push them too fast through the hand guns and have not seen any adverse pressure signs, up to 1200 fps in .44 Magnum and 1100 fps in the .44 Special Lipsey's Ruger.

Thanks in advance, Rodfac

[outdoorfan]

What's your technique for annealing the nose portion?


Stand the boolits nose up in a pan. Fill the pan with water up to the point where the nose starts. You only want the nose above the water line. Take a torch and heat the nose as uniformally as possible until it subtely changes color. When that happens you have annealed it, but the base (that is under the water) will remain hard. It takes some practice.

[leftiye]

Rodfac - Tempil crayons on tips of boolits - about 300 degree (IIRC) - set boolit in water to top of bearing surface. Heat noses with small acetylene tip, or pencil torch until tempilaq changes color. Walk away (don't have to tip over). Not my invention BTW.

[outdoorfan]

Tempil crayons

What are these & where can you get them?

[leftiye]

Welding shops.