which .44 mag revolver for hunting

[jmsj]

Hello All,

Up until now all big game hunting has been with rifles. Now I am wanting to use a .44 mag revolver for hunting deer and cow elk. I am thinking I will want to use a 300 grain flat point bullet w/ a muzzle velocity between 1300-1400 fps.
I currently own a Smith & Wesson 629, that I have shot only with standard pressure 44 mag/240 swc loads.
Lately I have been reading articles that say the Smith & Wesson will not hold up to +P pressures with heavy bullets but the Rugers will. What do you guys think?
I am thinking about a Ruger Bisley Super Blackhawk hunter. I currently have a 45Bisley/Vaquero and like that grip arrangement or would I be better off with a Super Redhawk.
Seems that some the members here hunt with with stout loads and heavy bullets. Any real world experience would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks, jmsj

[outdoorfan]

This topic never ends, but in most threads discussing this exact issue it seems that if you don't load that Smith over 40,000, it'll do just fine.

[Cactus Farmer]

"I currently own a Smith & Wesson 629, that I have shot only with standard pressure 44 mag/240 swc loads."

What have you found that needed more killing than that? I, too, shoot a 629 and never had to shoot anything twice.

[TDC]

I'd say total BS on the S&W's. I've hunted and killed many large bull elk and big black bear for over the last 30 years with the same S&W 29-2. And the thoughts that you need 300gr boolits rather than 240gr HP's (with the right alloy) doesn't fit with my experience either.

Go with the 8 3/8

http://i170.photobucket.com/albums/u269/tdcorp/29-2R838tiltnew.jpg

http://i170.photobucket.com/albums/u269/tdcorp/29-2L838tiltnew3.jpg

or a 6/6 1/2 .... and be a "happy camper."

http://i170.photobucket.com/albums/u269/tdcorp/29Rtilt2.jpg

[500bfrman]

contrary to the opinions so far, there really is nothing wrong with you buying another gun. a very strong gun that will handle 300 grain loads in the speed range you desire.

[dubber123]

If a stronger gun will make you happy, by all means! The Ruger SB makes a great hunting gun, I would only change trigger and sights. If you are used to a 629, be prepared to be disappointed in the Rugers trigger. If you can do it yourself, it's no cost, if not, add it into the price. I've run my 2 629's pretty hard, and they survived. I will say the Ruger has it all over the Smith in the handling of recoil. Full house 300's in a Smith with normal grips gets old fast.

[outdoorfan]

Here, I found this thread:

http://www.go2gbo.com/forums/index.php/topic,87035.0.html

[anachronism]

Look at the Ruger Super Redhawk. It has the longest cylinder, which will allow you to load practically any weight bullet, even the super heavyweight 320 gr LBT LFN or WFNs if you so choose. The SRH can be scoped if desired, using the rings Ruger ships with every SRH. The things are built like tanks, so reliability & durability won't be an issue, Super Redhawks can take a lot more full power loads without issue than the Smith without needing a refit. The triggers can be tuned to a nice crisp pull if desired. There are many different styles of grips available, so you can fit the gun to your hand, not vice-versa. As mentioned before, the extra weight of the SRH can be comforting when shooting full power loads with heavy bullets.

[targetshootr]

My Smiths have much better sa triggers than my Rugers but l don't horse them either. Rugers were made to be horsed. Smiths can be "shot loose" with enough stout ammo. In other words, get several of each if possible.

[Bucks Owin]

There's nothing wrong with the strength of the S&W but it's lockwork isn't up to a steady diet of full tilt magnum loads, or so I've read. I shot about 500 "barnburners" through an 8 3/8" 29-2 of my cousin's and never had it "unlock" the cyl after firing as some claim can happen when the innards wear some. That said, you can't go wrong with a tanklike Ruger in either persuasion, SA or DA. And I percieve less recoil with a SBH with some barrel on it than with the S&W gripframe. The SBH Ruger is a better "value" IMO, and used one's are plentiful, but the choice is your's, either is a fine and accurate hunting weapon....JMO, Dennis (BTW, the Ruger trigger is a non issue. It's easily tuned up. I like mine at around 2 lbs...)

[Lloyd Smale]

Bottom line, and take no insult from this, is that if you have to ask im sure your not going to ever shoot your smith enough to wear it out. I did shoot one loose back in the 70s but the round could was well over 10k and alot of them were hot loads and many were hot and heavy loads. If a guy uses one with common sense. Shoot low pressure loads for practice and most hunting situations and works up a good heavy bullet game load and uses its sprarinly you will never wear one out.

[Bass Ackward]

Yep, bullet weight won't wear out anything. It's pressure that does the damage. And you can generate the same damaging pressure with 200s as you can with 300s.

One thing to understand is that the longer the barrel, the easier it is to generate a certain velocity. The easier it is to reach that velocity, the easier it is on the gun.

[Vance in Ak]

I have been using 320gr bullets at around 1325fps (as high as 1350) with no ill effects after about 7 years. Mine is a 29-4 so it doesn't have the performance enhancements but it does just fine. I have an Ultra Dto 4 red dot sight on it in a Weigand base & LOVE IT! Although I haven't made a kill with it I have carried it with confidence for moose & black bear.
Your gun will do fine on deer & elk.

Living in Alaska I recently went to a SRH in 480 Ruger, but I mainly hunt moose & black bear in brown bear country. If it weren't for the brownies I would be happy with the 44 mag, but I want a gun I can feel comfortable hunting the costal brownies with if I get the chance.

[anachronism]

I've had Model 29 Smiths out of time in around 500 rounds. It didn't require any special loads to do it, just 240 gr JHPs.

[Heavy lead]

Why don't you just stoke up that Ruger Bisley up with some good 300 plus loads? IMO as good or better than any 44.

[TDC]

Or why not dump on all the .44's altogether if you feel you have to have the extra power. A 500 Smith will blow the doors off just about anything in normal production. That's what I bought for my next hunting adventures.... Kinda kills the need for a debate on what will hold up best with super high power loads.. About three times the power of a 44 Mag or it can be loaded down to feel like a .38 Special.....

http://i170.photobucket.com/albums/u269/tdcorp/500Ltilt.jpg

[stubshaft]

FWIW - I bought my first Ruger SB in 1972. I used it to compete in silly wett and shot the heck out of it. It is still going strong after all of these years.

[sixshot]

I'm a single action guy but comparing the two I'd have to say a 29 smith is a caddy & a ruger is a chevy impala, both will get you there but the caddy rides a little nicer. If you are going to pound 300 gr slugs down your smith at 1400 fps expect it to complain a little, just the nature of the design.....but they are terrific guns, just no need for the 300's unless you expect real trouble.
The SBH 44 is a workhorse, they will take about any sane load you can give them & if the heavy bullets are needed they won't complain. The double action SRH is stronger than either the model 29 or the SBH, it will give you a lot of horsepower if you think you need the very top end loads.
I've taken deer, elk & bear with all 3, none could tell the difference & that was with the 250 Keith slug. You can put a good trigger on a SRH, but not a great trigger.

Dick

[kelbro]

Come on guys, jmsj is trying to justify a new pistola and some of you are telling him that what he has is just fine.

Of course you need an SBH, and a 480, and a 500. :)

[softpoint]

Your Smith is a good revolver. If you want the cadillac of .44 mags,get a Freedom Arms model 83. Mine has shot a number of 5 shot ,1 inch groups at 50 yards with a scope while working up loads, and couple of 3 shot groups at 100 meters that were right close to 1inch. And if you want strength, and ability to digest the heaviest .44 loads, there it is.

[Cactus Farmer]

Well, we've spent a little and a lot of your hard earned $. What's the magic answer?

[Ron B.]

Reading all the responses, noone's biased around here; right guys? Lol!
I agree with all the above. :)

About the Ruger Super Redhawk, great revolver! I've owned two. And, both developed the same problem. Or, at least came to me so, as I'd purchased them used. Both had minute cracks in the forcing cone area. Both examples were readily repaired by Ruger at absolutely no cost. New cylinders, parts. They even returned my shipping charges.

I love my 44 Smiths too.

Decisions at times can be difficult. In this 44mag. case, any decision will be a good one.
GRB

[sagamore-one]

I have worn out a model 29 Smith. More than one. In the 1980's I used them in IPSC competition here in Indiana, won B class one year. I broke a forcing cone on a 4 incher , untimed an 8 3/8 incher, and wore out a cylinder on a 6 1/2 incher. I have witnessed a cylinder come unlocked and rotate backward on firing. My standard load was 250 Keith over 22 of 2400 or 10 unique. 8 second El Presidente was about as good as I could do.
We used a ballistic pendulum in those days to determine major/ minor scoring. Some idiot challenged my load . I was asked to hit Peter the power meter. It died a glorious death. No doubt as to major power factor.
I am reduced to two S&W 44 mags now. The above mentioned 6 1/2 incher with a fresh current cylinder. And my daily carry is a 329 PD, carry a lot- shoot a little.
The Ruger may be stronger , but so is a claw hammer, neither fit my hands very well.

[44man]

There is just nothing wrong with a S&W! I owned many, many of them and shot pretty hot loads for IHMSA and general shooting. Besides that I had to shoot original factory loads long ago because I could not buy brass yet and they were HOT to say the least.
I never harmed a single S&W or shot one loose because I believe in lubing a gun.
HOWEVER, the gun does not like heavy recoil from heavy boolits. The S&W is most accurate with 240 and 250 gr boolits but it also loves the 265 gr RD boolit. Stop there and the gun will kill anything you shoot at.
Working from 300 to 320 gr boolits has shown the recoil will unlock the cylinder latch and let the cylinder turn. The design of the latch and the spring used will let the latch stay forward from inertia if recoil is too heavy. Some guns even did it with lighter bullets because the spring was too light. This does not harm the gun, just reduce the recoil.
The next thing heavy recoil will do is to peen the end of the little rod in the cylinder pin that unlocks the front lock when you push the thumb piece to swing open the cylinder. It will get very hard to push until you need a dowel and hammer to move it. Now the cylinder will need all parts removed and the pin filed down and the front end hardened. Or make a new one from hardened tool steel. The original pin is soft.
Stay at or below a 265 gr boolit, keep pressures in the normal .44 mag range and the gun will last forever and is a wonderful hunting gun. Don't push the gun because you just don't have to, it is good as is.
If you want to shoot real heavy boolits, buy a Ruger or a Freedom.
By the way, speed shooting will wear out ANY gun! :takinWiz:

[BD]

44man has pretty much spelled it out. I hunted with the Lee 310 for quite a while. It passed clean through everything I shot with it, including trees. Then I started using a .265 gr. WFN, and I've been happy with it for 10 years. It also passed clear through nearly everything I shot with it, and it's much easier on the gun and my wrist. IMHO The only real advantage the heavier boolit has comes into play at ranges beyond any I'm planning.

Buy your self a Dan Wesson if you can find a good one. I carried Redhawks for a long time. Everytime I found one that would shoot better than the one I had at the time, I bought it. The best I did after five was one that would keep 4 out of six chambers in one hole, with the other two high and right by 1". I bought the Dan Wesson and right out of the box it would keep them all in an inch @ 25 yards. After a little chamber work it shoots way better than I do.
BD

[Whitworth]

There is just nothing wrong with a S&W! I owned many, many of them and shot pretty hot loads for IHMSA and general shooting. Besides that I had to shoot original factory loads long ago because I could not buy brass yet and they were HOT to say the least.
I never harmed a single S&W or shot one loose because I believe in lubing a gun.
HOWEVER, the gun does not like heavy recoil from heavy boolits. The S&W is most accurate with 240 and 250 gr boolits but it also loves the 265 gr RD boolit. Stop there and the gun will kill anything you shoot at.
Working from 300 to 320 gr boolits has shown the recoil will unlock the cylinder latch and let the cylinder turn. The design of the latch and the spring used will let the latch stay forward from inertia if recoil is too heavy. Some guns even did it with lighter bullets because the spring was too light. This does not harm the gun, just reduce the recoil.
The next thing heavy recoil will do is to peen the end of the little rod in the cylinder pin that unlocks the front lock when you push the thumb piece to swing open the cylinder. It will get very hard to push until you need a dowel and hammer to move it. Now the cylinder will need all parts removed and the pin filed down and the front end hardened. Or make a new one from hardened tool steel. The original pin is soft.
Stay at or below a 265 gr boolit, keep pressures in the normal .44 mag range and the gun will last forever and is a wonderful hunting gun. Don't push the gun because you just don't have to, it is good as is.
If you want to shoot real heavy boolits, buy a Ruger or a Freedom.
By the way, speed shooting will wear out ANY gun! :takinWiz:

I completely agree. I have done all of the above to one of my Model 29s -- a -3 I have had since the late '80s. They cannot take the abuse of a Ruger -- no way no how, but that's okay. Limit your bullet weight and stay within the safe parameters of pressure and your 29 will last a lifetime.

[Bass Ackward]

I completely agree. I have done all of the above to one of my Model 29s -- a -3 I have had since the late '80s. They cannot take the abuse of a Ruger -- no way no how, but that's okay. Limit your bullet weight and stay within the safe parameters of pressure and your 29 will last a lifetime.


You do have to stipulate what model you are discussing here. The older guns had a lot weaker and had softer steel that allowed more spring in them. These are best limited to 28k for long term use. Not no more.

Now with the frame redesign and better heat treatment, (post 1990/1) things are much different. You can buy enlarged cylinder stops from Power Custom that fill more of the notch add take out side to side cylinder play and add even more strength if you want it.

[Whitworth]

I did stipulate -- I said a -3....... Even the later 629s aren't Ruger strong, but that's okay. Nothing wrong with them.

[kingstrider]

If you like the Bisley grip frame and can find a SBH Hunter in that configuration then I'd go for it! I like the option of being able to mount a scope for developing loads and the finish is easy to care for. Sure your 629 will do the job but two .44s is better than one.:D

[missionary5155]

Good afternoon
Get a Dan Wesson. They are still for sale on Gunbroker & other sites for about $500 +. You can have interchangable barrel lengths & a revolver that IS as good as any. They do not fall apart, shoot apart & have long cylinders so you can load any boolit with power. Dan Wesson Revolvers are still THE MOST winning revolver shooting steel out there. It took other companies 3x the money to come up with a SINGLE action that could compete with the DW double action. You may have to wait a week for the right DW to pop up... but that sure beats waiting 3 months for a single action that maybe will shoot a 100 yard group 1/4 less and cost you $1350 +++
I shoot 41 magnum. Been at it for 25 years +. My DW will be the last to leave.

[44man]

You do have to stipulate what model you are discussing here. The older guns had a lot weaker and had softer steel that allowed more spring in them. These are best limited to 28k for long term use. Not no more.

Now with the frame redesign and better heat treatment, (post 1990/1) things are much different. You can buy enlarged cylinder stops from Power Custom that fill more of the notch add take out side to side cylinder play and add even more strength if you want it.
I started shooting them in 1956 if that helps. Never harmed a single one in any way. My standard load back then was the 429421 with 22 gr of 2400. (That was the old 2400.) But factory loads kicked a lot worse. Those things must have been 36,000 CUP.
I don't believe in removing side play unless the chambers come out in perfect alignment but the latch spring can be made stronger.
End play is another story because you don't want a cylinder slamming back and forth. Just enough for heat expansion is all that is needed.

[Bass Ackward]

I did stipulate -- I said a -3....... Even the later 629s aren't Ruger strong, but that's okay. Nothing wrong with them.


Sorry, I should have actually responded to Jim.

But the big stipulation here was not actual weight or brute strength, but the ability to handle long doses of SAAMI standard pressures with heavy bullets. For that, there is no longer a difference between the guns. Strong enough is now strong enough. (for 44 caliber anyway)

You actually could harm the older Smiths. In fact, the cylinder dropping open is indicative of frame stretch and the reason for the redesign. Even the slightest cylinder misalignment and pressures jumped. Smith knew this for decades and tried to moderate pressures on the older guns by using larger diameter throats and longer forcing cones to cut the pressure and prevent this. If you loaded the older guns hot with longer bullets, they increased the torc and could / would actually shear the barrel pin and unwind. Seen that many times on the range as guys would push for any advantage they could.

See I have been at this awhile too. So I would never buy an older Smith in 44 caliber unless I knew who owned it before and how it wasn't used. :grin:

Today they went flip side and actually put undersized throats now. But metal can always be removed. That's a different subject.

[44man]

Sorry, I should have actually responded to Jim.

But the big stipulation here was not actual weight or brute strength, but the ability to handle long doses of SAAMI standard pressures with heavy bullets. For that, there is no longer a difference between the guns. Strong enough is now strong enough. (for 44 caliber anyway)

You actually could harm the older Smiths. In fact, the cylinder dropping open is indicative of frame stretch and the reason for the redesign. Even the slightest cylinder misalignment and pressures jumped. Smith knew this for decades and tried to moderate pressures on the older guns by using larger diameter throats and longer forcing cones to cut the pressure and prevent this. If you loaded the older guns hot with longer bullets, they increased the torc and could / would actually shear the barrel pin and unwind. Seen that many times on the range as guys would push for any advantage they could.

See I have been at this awhile too. So I would never buy an older Smith in 44 caliber unless I knew who owned it before and how it wasn't used. :grin:

Today they went flip side and actually put undersized throats now. But metal can always be removed. That's a different subject.
Cylinders dropping open is a different story and I agree with you. But we were just referring to a cylinder coming unlocked and rotating.
Not over pressure stuff, just a boolit too heavy with the adjoining recoil increase.

[Bass Ackward]

Cylinders dropping open is a different story and I agree with you. But we were just referring to a cylinder coming unlocked and rotating.
Not over pressure stuff, just a boolit too heavy with the adjoining recoil increase.


Then if that is the case, the longer, wider, taller, oversize cylinder stop will correct that. In fact, most Smiths that have been shot a couple of thousand times will benefit from one of these if the gun is shot in single action mode only.


http://powercustom.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=783&zenid=f212e5c1a1f5aa23a926493cca02ec28

[Trey45]

I'm admittedly biased when it comes to my choice in 44's. Ruger SBH Bisley Hunter.

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y243/SimonLegree/SBH.jpg

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y243/SimonLegree/Model.jpg

What's not to love? Accurate without a fault. Reliable. Fits good in the hand. Looks damn good too. Yes it's heavy, but if you run out of ammo, you can use it as a bludgeon.

[Bass Ackward]

What's not to love? Accurate without a fault. Reliable. Fits good in the hand. Looks damn good too. Yes it's heavy, but if you run out of ammo, you can use it as a bludgeon.


Yep, for simply hunting, that would be my choice in a 44.

[Marvin S]

Single action, Double action, Auto. Eh, they all good but the Smith sure is smooth. Ill vote he gets a 460XVR Smith.

[odis]

If your hesitant about buying a new gun well what you have now will do just fine, but just to make it more complicated the BFR is being offered in 44 this year, 5" barreled 5 shot looks kind of nice.

[44man]

Then if that is the case, the longer, wider, taller, oversize cylinder stop will correct that. In fact, most Smiths that have been shot a couple of thousand times will benefit from one of these if the gun is shot in single action mode only.


http://powercustom.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=783&zenid=f212e5c1a1f5aa23a926493cca02ec28
That might work fine if they also replace the spring with it. It is the position and weight of the latch with it's attending inertia that makes it stay in place when the gun moves back. I always said that a stronger spring will fix the cylinder unlocking.

[44man]

If your hesitant about buying a new gun well what you have now will do just fine, but just to make it more complicated the BFR is being offered in 44 this year, 5" barreled 5 shot looks kind of nice.
I love the SBH Hunter but now you are making my mouth water over the BFR! :veryconfu For hunting, I want a 7-1/2" barrel though. I like noise farther from my ears and even my 7-1/2" .475 is not heard when I shoot deer.
It is a funny thing. My SBH is 10" and I dare not shoot it even once on my range without muffs but I can shoot a deer and it does not bother me.
I just like long barrels though.

[MtGun44]

My only thought is why is the 300gr getting so much interest for hunting? For silhouettes
you may need the wt to help knock over the rams, but a 250 Keith or LBT will never be
found if it hits a deer at 1100 or 1200 fps. Any extra power is just expended on the
scenery.

Bill

[9.3X62AL]

MG44, your text echoes my own thoughts closely. I don't have extensive experience with handgunning deer (2 to date), but in both cases conventional bullet weights (240 grain in 44 Mag, 146 grain in 357 Mag) went through-and-through the animals. Same story on coyotes--sometimes #358156 goes stem-to-stern (or the reverse of that track). I'm pretty happy with standard-weight SWCs in most revolver calibers, whether they are Keith- or Thompson-inspired.

I mean no offense to the heavy-for-caliber enthusiasts by saying this, but sometimes we might be over-thinking the projectile part of the equation and under-utilizing range time and practical preparation for a hunt. I spent much of my LEO career as a range trainer and a significant portion of it as a homicide detective, and I'm not the least bit convinced that bullet engineering plays a huge part of the critter-taking or assailant-stopping equation. It's all about location of bullet strike(s). Wider (caliber) is certainly better, and "heavy enough to retain penetration" is good. But terminal ballistics will never be a "science" like internal and external ballistics have become. At best, the subject is a poorly-understood art form, and the few rays of light shed by those like Thompson and Hatcher don't really brighten the picture much. The Latter-Day Facklerites.......well, the jury is still out, let's just say.

[44man]

My only thought is why is the 300gr getting so much interest for hunting? For silhouettes
you may need the wt to help knock over the rams, but a 250 Keith or LBT will never be
found if it hits a deer at 1100 or 1200 fps. Any extra power is just expended on the
scenery.

Bill
Actually a 300 gr in the .44 has too much drop for silhouettes. Too much sight fiddling. You are looking at 30" to 35" at 200 meters.
The only reason I went to heavy boolits is that they just shoot so good.
Penetration is only a part of it though, the heavy boolits seem to hit deer harder and they don't go as far. I see it all the time when I use my .45 with 300 gr+ boolits at 1160 fps or my .44 at 1316 fps with the same weight boolits. The .44 makes deer react much more and run a shorter distance with much more blood on the ground. I do not believe in wasted energy at all when a boolit goes through, it is what the boolit does when inside the animal that counts.
Now if I take the same weight boolit over 1600 fps, deer reaction goes way down, blood trails are weak, they might go over 200 yards and I have lost a few with double lung hits.
The .45 Colt is way more effective at the slower velocity.
By using a softer hollow point at that higher speed this year, the boolit was a little too destructive but the deer went straight up when hit and she did not go far. A short run and she ran into every tree because she was just gone!
I can't get super accuracy from any Keith boolit and I feel a lighter LBT is too short. I just find a heavier LBT (or a RNFP) is easier to get accuracy with.
I don't believe the heavier boolit kills deer any better then a 240 gr but I can HIT better with them.
Anyway, that is my reason for liking the heavy boolits.
Other then the .44 and .45 with top weight boolits, my other revolvers use mid range weights for the calibers. It is not a case of using the heaviest boolit, only the most accurate.
All of you know I am crazy anyway, trying to get revolvers to shoot like rifles! :cbpour:Sometimes I need two hands on my cup of coffee, I need all the help I can get with shooting a revolver any more. :bigsmyl2:

[Bass Ackward]

That might work fine if they also replace the spring with it. It is the position and weight of the latch with it's attending inertia that makes it stay in place when the gun moves back. I always said that a stronger spring will fix the cylinder unlocking.



I wanted to see this recoil phenomin first hand so I attempted to recreate it and I did.

I took a new 629-6 that has just had the throats reamed to .4305 and hasn't been broken in to accept the larger diameter yet. The 29-3 is taylored. I shot 300 grain Hornady XTPs (biggest diameter / longest bullets I have) with 21 grains of H-110 that is about 2 grains over max according to Hornady. The newer, stronger gun jumped the notch and gave me a nice peen on the third chamber but not the rest. I avoided that chamber for the rest of the ammo without event. The weaker gun took it in stride as I already knew it would.

So the stronger frame failed while the weaker design didn't. And this was a handfull with open sighted 4"ers. So recoil wasn't the issue in this case, alignment was. In this case, the spring strength is a safety feature to permit alignment and let you know something is wrong.

[Bucks Owin]

Yep, FWIW, my best shooting "long range" .44 mag load utilized the RCBS 225 CG bullet, not the 250 "Keith". I agree that bullet design didn't reach it's apex "ala Elmer"!....Dennis :wink:

[Bass Ackward]

I can't get super accuracy from any Keith boolit and I feel a lighter LBT is too short. I just find a heavier LBT (or a RNFP) is easier to get accuracy with.



Tayloring the 29-3 ruined it for light bullets too but improved it with heavies which was the opposite of the original experiment. You have to have the .... correct throat size and shape to shoot lighter / shorter bullets even though the Smith has a faster twist rate.

As the gun ages, the owner gets pushed to heavier and heavier slugs. Guns change.

[44man]

Watching bullets from the S&W showed extreme accuracy with a 240 gr bullet at 50 meters, many, many 1/2" groups from Creedmore.
But at longer ranges I could see the bullet rotate around the flight path, looked like a fast corkscrew.
Going to a heavier 250 gr bullet stopped the rotation and the flight path was smooth and even. A 265 gr was also very smooth.
The Ruger was nice and smooth with a 240 gr bullet all the way to 320 gr.
Watching bullets in flight taught me a lot about long range shooting. The S&W did not settle down clear to 150 meters ( I start to lose it past there.) so I don't know where it will go to sleep.
Even though the S&W showed super accuracy, it was too grip sensitive to shoot good scores and never showed much at any IHMSA shoot.
I could shoot the first five chickens dead center at 50 meters and after picking the gun back up, I would miss the next five, ditto at every range to 200 meters.
Just putting the gun down after five shots at 50 meters, then picking it back up showed as much as a 10" difference in POI.
We found the gun shot much better off hand then from Creedmore.

[Whitworth]

My only thought is why is the 300gr getting so much interest for hunting? For silhouettes
you may need the wt to help knock over the rams, but a 250 Keith or LBT will never be
found if it hits a deer at 1100 or 1200 fps. Any extra power is just expended on the
scenery.

Bill

Certainly they are not necessary for deer -- deer aren't particularly hard to kill. But, many of us shoot other, tougher game animals. As 44man ststed, the heavier bullets just hit harder and carry more momentum.

[44man]

Bass, every model 29 I owned was different. None of mine would unlock and rotate the cylinder. A few would take 300 gr or over without a sniffle except for the lock pin peening.
I have seen a few unlock with factory 240 gr loads. I could never find the right spring here so just stretching it would cure the problem until the spring took a set.
It is not a safety issue at all, only a design issue with the position and weight of the latch. It pivots to the front under recoil. The spring is so tiny it is hard to find one to fit the hole. I don't feel it is worth the trouble to buy a factory replacement.
I don't know about revolvers changing either unless it started with out of line chambers to the bore. I have been shooting all kinds of heavy loads in my SBH since April 1983. Somewhere around 58,000 rounds plus uncounted light loads which might add 3 or 4,000 more shots. There is no measurable wear, it slugs the same, the forcing cone is the same and the start of the rifling is the same. The edge of the cone is sandblasted pretty good but it doesn't hurt the way it shoots. There is no side splatter. I have shot 320 and 330 gr boolits for years yet it will still group 240 gr bullets very tight at 50 meters out to 200.
I have never had any revolver that NEEDED a heavy boolit to bring back accuracy.
Unlike a rifle, powder heat is lower in the start of the bore so it does not erode the rifling.
Shooting boolits that do not fit might cause gas erosion and fast powders and soft boolits might also contribute but I don't do that.
Does my work with accuracy also prevent wear? I don't know but I have never seen what you are talking about.
Maybe some can ruin a gun with 500 rounds but I will continue to shoot mine as long as I live.

[JudgeBAC]

"I mean no offense to the heavy-for-caliber enthusiasts by saying this, but sometimes we might be over-thinking the projectile part of the equation and under-utilizing range time and practical preparation for a hunt."

Al, I have a New Years resolution I intend to keep. Most of my range time and loading has been experimenting to find the "ultimate" load for each gun. In doing so, shooting each gun accurately and learning to shoot has taken a back seat. I am determined to reverse the trend and spend more range time learning to shoot from field positions and hit the intended target on the first shot.

[44man]

"I mean no offense to the heavy-for-caliber enthusiasts by saying this, but sometimes we might be over-thinking the projectile part of the equation and under-utilizing range time and practical preparation for a hunt."

Al, I have a New Years resolution I intend to keep. Most of my range time and loading has been experimenting to find the "ultimate" load for each gun. In doing so, shooting each gun accurately and learning to shoot has taken a back seat. I am determined to reverse the trend and spend more range time learning to shoot from field positions and hit the intended target on the first shot.
Not really. I use all kinds of boolits in each revolver and it takes little time to find what each needs. I know what load each uses and when I switch boolits I just change the charge and go shoot.
Some boolits only took an hour on bags and that includes walking to the targets and changing them, sometimes less then 25 shots to pick the load.
Any boolit that does not shoot the way I want just does not get cast anymore.
We shoot more at cans, etc, from all distances and positions then from bags.
The nice thing is that when a friend buys a new .44 or something else, my loads work in them too. Many times just getting the sights set for a new gun will give 1/2" to 1" groups at 50 yards and no more needs done.
It really is a lot easier then many think and it should not take more then one range session to test a gun and sight in.
I'm the same way with cleaning, must be over six months since some guns were cleaned and I know one has gone a year. I had to clean the cylinder pin and hole and put new lube on a few but have ignored the bore.
It is more relaxing to be bone dead lazy like me and just shoot! :holysheep
For you fellas that think I work like mad----SURPRISE! :bigsmyl2: