lightest gallery load for 45/70

[hornsurgeon]

anyone have a very light gallery/squib/catsneeze/etc load for the 45/70? i'm working with the 350 ranch dog boolit lubed with bac. i've worked down to 3.6gr unique with .8gr dacron filler. it's been very consistant, but still a little loud for me. i know pace kelly suggests 5gr of bullseye, but i havn't tried that one yet.

the whole idea here is noise reduction. i'm not in a residential area, but ame trying to be courteous to the neighbors. only going to be used for rabbits and woodchucks.

rifle is a marlin 1895.

[chuebner]

I have gone as low as 4gr. Unique with the Lee 340gr. RNFP in my Numrich rolling block. Recoil is non-existent and the report is just a muted snort. Incredibly accurate at 50yd.

charlie

[Larry Gibson]

Suggest some .457/.458 RBs lightly lubed with LLA. Use unsized fire formed case with a LP primer. Thumb seat the RBs into the charged case and push the ball down onto the powder with a dowel or a "short starter" if you muzzle load. Start at 2 gr of Bullseye and work up or down from there until you get accuracy and noise level you want. Obviously these are single load rounds.

Larry Gibson

[Bullshop]

We sell a 175gn hollow base boolit for this purpose

[NickSS]

I shoot a RB lubed with LLA pushed down on top of 3 gr of Red Dot it sounds like a 22 short going off maybe quieter than that. My neighbors have not complained at at 15 yards I have killed raccoons with it.

[Rickk]

Bullshop can you help me find these light bullets on your website? When I click on "other bullets" nothing happens.
Thanks

[Jim]

Suggest some .457/.458 RBs lightly lubed with LLA. Use unsized fire formed case with a LP primer. Thumb seat the RBs into the charged case and push the ball down onto the powder with a dowel or a "short starter" if you muzzle load. Start at 2 gr of Bullseye and work up or down from there until you get accuracy and noise level you want. Obviously these are single load rounds.

Larry Gibson

I do the same, except I F/L size the cases, seat the RB to the circumference and crimp it ever so slightly. These feed in my 1895GG. I locate the powder against the flash hole with a cotton ball.

[Bullshop]

RickK
We are working on a list to put up on our site. It should go up very soon. For the time being it is a written list only. At some point we may get up pictures but not sure about that. If I had not gotten the voluntary help of a friend that is a professional at building web sites we would not even have gotten up a list.
Anyway there should be a list up in the next couple days.
Anyone needing samples of certain things before buying a mold might want to check out the list of about 230 or so different molds.
BIC/BS

[Larry Gibson]

I do the same, except I F/L size the cases, seat the RB to the circumference and crimp it ever so slightly. These feed in my 1895GG. I locate the powder against the flash hole with a cotton ball.

Jim

That is the solution for the lever gun. I have TDs and a bolt action so mine are single loaders. With the Rapines 460210 (a very neat HB bullet for excellent plinking and small game loads in the 45-70) The bolt action (Siamese Mauser) is a two-shooter as it will feed the first rond from the right side of the magazine. These loads are lots of fun:-)

Larry Gibson

[Doc Highwall]

.45/70 Government
Bullet Weight Powder Weight Average
Velocity Standard
Deviation Primer Sized Overall Length Comments
457122 HP 338.0 Bullseye
1” square dacron 4.0 613 1.5 F210 .459 2.500 2”@ 50 yards
vertical stringing
457122 HP 338.0 Red Dot
1” square dacron 4.0 579 13.8 F210 .459 2.500 One hole at 50 yards
457122 HP 338.0 700-X
1” square
dacron 4.0 572 10.6 F210 .459 2.500 1.5” @ 50
Yds
457122 HP 338.0 WW 231
1”
square
dacron 4.0 468 21.3 F210 .459 2.500 4” @ 50 Yds
457122 HP 338.0 Clays
1” square
dacron 4.0 524 10.4 F210 .459 2.500 1 hole @ 50 Yds
457122 HP 338.0 Titegroup
1”
square
dacron 4.0 574 14.1 F210 .459 2.500 2” @ 50 Yds
Test rifle is a Marlin M1895 with Ballard rifling. A Weaver 2-10X scope was used for all tests.

[hornsurgeon]

well, i did drop down to 2.8 gr of unique with the 0.8gr dacron. not any quieter, and started getting delayed ignition and inconsistant burn. i've gone back to 3.5gr. i amy try some other pwoders as well such as trialboss.

[jimwill48]

I use 2.5gr of 700x and a 405 Cast. Will penatrate to the base of the bullet in a well seasoned oak stump (end grain). Sounds about like a CCI Long CB cap.

James

[StrawHat]

Okay, not a 350 grain bullet but a light load anyway.

In an article by Gil Sengel (Handloader, May-June 1988) titled "Classic Loads for Modern 45-70 Rifles he mentions one gallery load, the 45-5-140. He says it can be duplicated by using 5 grains of FFFg, an over powder wad, two lubed "wonder wads", and a 457 RB seated on the last wad. Claims +/- 400 fps and good accuracy to 50 feet. I have not yet tried this load but will do so over the summer season. I may modify it and use the GB Collar button boolit and see how it shoots.

I can supply a copy of the article if you would like.

[Tazman1602]

PM sent Strawhat

[freedom475]

I just tried this with my sharps...

Loaded 5gr.(vol) of 4ffff BP into the sized 45-70 case and just tapped a .457 RB into the case mouth. No filler or anything

Load was very quiet and went into the same hole at 15yrds with no change to my sights.. was able to hit the dog house at 80 yrds with the ladder set to 200yrds. You could see the ball heading to the dog house but it still had enough power to shoot through the 1/2" plywood and bounce around inside the house:mrgreen::mrgreen::holysheep (Don't worry, I have too many dogs anyway:D:kidding:

[StrawHat]

I just tried this with my sharps...

Loaded 5gr.(vol) of 4ffff BP into the sized 45-70 case and just tapped a .457 RB into the case mouth. No filler or anything

Load was very quiet and went into the same hole at 15yrds with no change to my sights.. was able to hit the dog house at 80 yrds with the ladder set to 200yrds. You could see the ball heading to the dog house but it still had enough power to shoot through the 1/2" plywood and bounce around inside the house:mrgreen::mrgreen::holysheep (Don't worry, I have too many dogs anyway:D:kidding:

Going to make it drafty on the nights you're sharing the quarters with the dogs won't it?

[Lostknife]

A 45-70 mini plinker:
I used a 0.5" pure lead ball that I also shoot from my 28 ga, forced it through a 45 ACP carbide sizing die at 0.460 and lubed with Lee liquid lube after sizing, The bottom punch is a homemade unit with a slight cavity to form a beveled bottom and using a 45ACP seater screw. So far so good, nice looking round nose, a short bearing surface and a bevelled base weighing about 200 grains. Plan on starting with 2.5 gr Bullseye. New Marlin Ballard rifling slugs at 0.460". Hoping far a very short range "Gallery". Bullet the will feed flawlessly thru the lever gun. Anyone else tried this?
Lost

[paul h]

well, i did drop down to 2.8 gr of unique with the 0.8gr dacron. not any quieter, and started getting delayed ignition and inconsistant burn. i've gone back to 3.5gr. i amy try some other pwoders as well such as trialboss.

For the quietest loads, you need to use the fastest powders and throttle them back until bullets won't leave the bore. You should also consider a bullet design that has minimal contact with the bore as it will require less pressure to drive it and hence lighter powder charges. I'd suggest paper patching a 200 gr 45 handgun bullet and bullseye, clays, red dot or 700X. I never did much experimentation with my 458 lott, but with the 35 whelen I was able to get down to a cap gun report.

[wmitty]

Lostknife:

I've gone the same route you have - .498 Lyman round ball sized thru a Lee push thru .457 die which I lapped to .460". I ran out of Bullseye and will use 700X or Titegroup . Marlin is a microgroove which likes .461" boolits (.46-70?)

[frnkeore]

To keep the report down, I would suggest these powders:

Norma R-1
Nitro 100 NF
Nitro 100
N - 310
Ram Shot Competition
Titewad

They are the fastest available and will give the least muzzle blast and pressure.

Frank

[Lostknife]

45-70 Squib.
Here's a pic of the Ø.500" round ball pure lead, run though a 45 ACP carbide sizer at Ø.460, then to form a meplat bump the nose against a flat seater punch then push it through a 458 LEE sizer then some LEE liquid lube. 3.5 grains Bullseye, LR primers. I tried with 2.5 gr Bullseye and 5 grains Bullseye, the 5 gr load was more than I wanted and the 2.5 gr not enough pressure to seal the end of the case so the 3.5's are loaded and ready for the Chronotach hopefully tomorrow.
http://i1119.photobucket.com/albums/k626/lostknife4/IMG_2179_zpsagg55iv4.jpg (http://s1119.photobucket.com/user/lostknife4/media/IMG_2179_zpsagg55iv4.jpg.html)
Lost

[Mule]

I use 2.5gr of 700x and a 405 Cast. Will penatrate to the base of the bullet in a well seasoned oak stump (end grain). Sounds about like a CCI Long CB cap.

James

Thanks for the idea. I like this. After trying RB loads that looked like shotgun patterns, I tried 3.0 gr of Promo under 405 cast. Three shots touching in the bullseye at 25 yards from my TD. Not much noise. This is going to be fun.

[Lostknife]

No velocity check yet on the 3.5 gr Bullseye loading but certainly more velocity than the 2.5 grs. Not much more noise and carries up almost as much as the 5 gr load when shot off the back porch in the snow at 40 yards. Almost all in the same hole when tested in the basement at about 35 feet. Just right for Rabbits and Grouse and Squirrels and other furred and feathered game close range using the same cross hair sighting alignment as the 415 gr Magma at 1360 fps. Kinda like this 45-70 cartridge.
Lost

[Lostknife]

Velocity from my Oehler 33 averages out at 624 fps, just right for me for this CB
Lost

[Michael J. Spangler]

Velocity from my Oehler 33 averages out at 624 fps, just right for me for this CB
Lost

What kind of ES and SD did you have?
I've loaded some with around 3 grains of bullseye and a .490 round ball sized to 458 and they shot pretty decent. I was thinking upping the charge a little would give some more consistency shot to shot.

Did you just load and shoot or tip the barrel up to position the powder each time? Wondering what type of change that makes with a fast easy lighting powder like red dot or bullseye.

[Michael J. Spangler]

Any updates here?

[flyingmonkey35]

This makes me wonder about some other galleries loads .

Say for a .223 keep it 22lr velocity's. Bolt Acton.

Or 30-30 30-06.

I shoot at a small indoor range and anything to fast will just damage the range but it would be fun to shoot my larger guns more then a few time a year.

[bearcove]

You mean like these


Recipes for "Mouse Fart" Loads in 30-06

Next post will link

[bearcove]

You mean like these

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?152431-Recipes-for-quot-Mouse-Fart-quot-Loads-in-30-06

[flyingmonkey35]

You mean like these

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?152431-Recipes-for-quot-Mouse-Fart-quot-Loads-in-30-06
Thanks.

[Michael J. Spangler]

Don't someone recently have a similar thread on this?
I thought someone had mentioned the lack of accuracy over 1200 fps and someone else chimed in on how the bullet was going trans sonic and messed with accuracy at 50 yards but the accuracy cleaned up a bit at 100 yards once the bullet was sub sonic again. Any info on that?
The whole discussion was in relation to the GMDR lever gun load data.

[M-Tecs]

I was looking for this thread awhile back and I couldn't find it. Glad to see it pop up again.

[rwadley]

I was looking for this thread awhile back and I couldn't find it. Glad to see it pop up again.
Especially since Lyman reintroduced the 145 grain ''collar button'' 457130 bullet mould a few years back.

[725]

My small game load is 9 gr Unique and a .457 RB lubed and pressed into the mouth of the case. No crimp, just remove the flair and it's off to the races. Quiet and strong enough for game.

[cpileri]

In the book, "original loading for Sharps 45-70" (or somethign like that) author lists a blackpowder indoor galleryload w blackpowder at just over 630fps w no smoke nor noise. i can look it up if you are interested in blackpowder.

[cpileri]

From JS and Pat Wolf's, "Loading Cartridges for the Original .45-70 Springfield Rifle and Carbine", they list several gallery loads.
One smokeless:
Rapine 460210 Hollow base bullet cast 80-1(lead-tin)= 220-224gr bullet
5gr Hercules Bullseye
2gr cosmetic puff over powder
Winchester or Remington case
OAL 2.25", crimped
vel 875fps from 32.6" barrel; recommended for 50-100yd range

and the aforementioned BP load:
.457 lead round ball seated down onto powder
4-6gr blackpowder, adjusted for velocity and range/POI as desired with
5gr FFg = 570fps in rifle
and
5gr FFFg = 630fps in rifle
Winchester cases with flash hole drilled to .096
Fed 215 magnum primer

Of course, the author disavows all responsibility for you choosing to use this load, etc etc

C-

[Intel6]

NOE Collar Button Mould makes a nice plinking bullet right at 200 grs. 10 grs of Unique pushes it right at 1,000 fps out of my Marlin 1895 SBL. Great plinking round and is thrifty on lead in the big 45-70. They were a PITA for me to try and lube size them in my Star so I just coated them in Hi-Tek Bronze 500.

In the pic below the 3rd bullet from the left and one loaded:



243605

[Bodydoc447]

+1 on the collar button and Unique (I use 8.5 grains). I had no trouble luring them with my Lyman. Fun to plink with!

[Alferd Packer]

Hello
Happy lurker rereading and enjoying this old thread.
Great stuff! Thanks!

[wquiles]

+1 on the NOE collar button bullet
http://m3coupe.com/Firearms/casting/NOE_CollarButton/20150411_144546.jpg
http://m3coupe.com/Firearms/casting/NOE_CollarButton/20150411_161421.jpg
http://m3coupe.com/Firearms/casting/NOE_CollarButton/20150411_182213.jpg

[Harter66]

I bought an old Rapine 458-201 @ 250 gr . I'm thinking a case full of 3031 or 45 ACP data for Red Dot .
Lots of grooves , thin base band so probably not a candidate for go fast without wad cards . It ought to make a dandy squirrel slayer though .

[Larry Gibson]

Harter66

I shoot thousands of Rapine 460250s (270 gr +/- with my scrap alloy) over 8 gr Bullseye in my 45-70s. They run 1000 to 1050 fps with excellent accuracy to 500 yards out of my TDs. Actually, for gallery loads I use a 210 gr Rapine HB 460210 over 5.5 or 6 gr of Bullseye.

[iMigraine]

What is the expected range for the Collar button boolits shooting flat, say 50 yards? Haven't had a change to cast or load any as of yet. TIA

[wquiles]

What is the expected range for the Collar button boolits shooting flat, say 50 yards? Haven't had a change to cast or load any as of yet. TIA
I have only shot them at 50 yards and I have been pretty pleased with them. Certainly more accurate than I can shoot :-)

[osteodoc08]

What is the expected range for the Collar button boolits shooting flat, say 50 yards? Haven't had a change to cast or load any as of yet. TIA

I’ve shot my CB molds with 12-15gr TB out to 200 yards with better than plinking accuracy. 50 yards is a ragged hole

[Alferd Packer]

.45 caliber will make the trip.
All you gotta do is allow for drop.

[Alferd Packer]

iMigraine
I would try your loads on the 25 yard or closer range first to see where the bullet strike is and then graduate to the longer ranges adjusting your powder and or elevation.
Baby steps with the light experimental loads will yield easy results.

[tejano]

Yesterday I tried 14 gr. of TrailBoss with the 190 gr. RN I purchased from Western Bullets. My Marlin GG is set up in the scout configuration using a 3X pistol scope. I had several fliers but also ate out the bull at 50 yards.
The system won’t allow me to post the photo right now.

[tejano]

Here is the reduced photo.
299333

[FishHunter357]

Wow, I ended up with a 45-70 collar button mold last year but sold it thinking there's no way it would be accurate. Now I wish I kept it. I still have 50 or so cast that came with it that will now become ammo thanks to these posts.