.444 marlin rebarrel ( suggestions please)

[357maximum]

I have a micro grooved 444S and am thinking about getting it rebarrelled into a ballard, traditional groove bore, cause I think it would improve my accuracy with cast. I would love to hear any and all opinions on this as well as opinions on where/who to heve this done by. Thank You's in advance

Michael

[Jumptrap]

Send it to Dennis Olson in Plains Montana. He rebarreled a new re-pro Winchester 95 for me and the work is flawless.

[6pt-sika]

Any decent rebarrel job is gonna cost about $300 plus whatever for blueing . Before I went to that , I would look around and see if I could find a decent new or used 444 with ballerd rifling . You can most likely pick up a new 444SS for under $475 . So when you figure 300 for a new barrel and 50 or more for the reblue . Well an additional $125 for another rifle is nothing :drinks:

[Ranch Dog]

The rate of twist is what you worry about.

[Bass Ackward]

I have a micro grooved 444S and am thinking about getting it rebarrelled into a ballard, traditional groove bore, cause I think it would improve my accuracy with cast. I would love to hear any and all opinions on this as well as opinions on where/who to heve this done by. Thank You's in advance

Michael


357,

I think that you need to have a rational outlook so that you can have reasonable expectations.

No one completely understands about barrel accuracy. An accurate barrel is simply hit or miss no matter who makes it. But the requirements for cast are well known. To handle cast, you need a straight, smooth, uniform dimensioned bore with the slowest twist rate required to stabilize your bullet weight of choice. Period.

The problem is in finding someone who knows and will take the time to make one like this. Because 99% of barrels are made for jacketed that don't have the stringent requirements of cast. Alot of manufacturers make their barrels so the bullet makes (laps) what it wants because perfect bore dimensions are NOT a requirement for jacketed accuracy. They call this "breakin". And this can be why many rifle barrels fail to perform well with cast unless at low velocities.

A ballard rifled barrel should have taller rifling and if made correctly as listed above, taller rifling "might" give you more .... options "in this caliber" than a microgroove barrel. But it might not either. Accuracy will still be hit or miss, regardless of rifling type.

You can go after market on the barrel of which you can search for numerous sourses. Barrel quality ranges from below factory quality to as good as it gets with pricing to match. Costs for fitting, chambering, and finishing will be the same for a piece of pipe or a match grade tube. So the only difference is barrel quality. Expect costs to excede the price of the gun.

Or you can contact Marlin and see what they charge. Last I checked, it was $130 for a round replacement but this was an 1894. A fair quality barrel alone "can" cost you more than that.

[357maximum]

I had not thought about shipping it back to marlin, will check into that, thank you very much. The gun was my dads so in my thinking he would want me to make it better, but a replacement "whole" gun is out of the question. If it is still around 150 bucks a may very well try that route, thanks again

Michael

[6pt-sika]

Decent carbon steel barrel blank from most of the makers start at $200 unchambered . Of the guys I've talked with that will rebarrel a Marlin they want an additional $50-75 for cutting I believe the extracter groove. Then fitting will be about another $50-75 and the blue job again will be $50-75.

I have a 336 that will end up going from 30-30 to 7-30 Waters and the price for the new barrel , chambered , fitted and blueing everything will end up about $550.
If Marlin would or had made a 7-30 Waters I would never have considered this . But I have no choice if I want a Marlin in 7-30 .

[dk17hmr]

Judging by your Pic you are in the Southern part of Michigan just a guess because thats a shotgun. But if you ever get up around Standish/Hale area talk to Allen Siegrist at "Siegrist Gun & Machine Shop" he rebarreled my 25-06 for only $50. Headspaced and everything even touched up the crown. He does great work and pretty good prices to. Every place I went before I went to him suggested me to him for barrel work. Took a month and a half because he was busy at the time but WOW, I built the rifle for long range shooting/hunting and it will give an honest .5 inch 10 shot group at 100 yards with my handloaded missiles.

I of course bought a barrel threaded for Remington 700 receiver and it was already in the chambering in what I wanted.

If you get this far north check with him to do the smithing work.

Dk17hmr

[Four Fingers of Death]

What about reboring to 45/70?

[Bret4207]

MAybe if you described the problems you're having with the Micro-groove, some of our Marlin experts could give you some new ideas to try. There's also the possibilty it could something other than the barrel like bedding or ignition.

[Ranch Dog]

357Max... If you want to improve your accuracy with the 444Marlin, start here with these three articles from Beartooth Bullets. Marshall Stanton, the fellow that wrote them is the top dog with knowledge of the 444 and cast boolits...

BTB's .444 Marlin- America's Most Versatile Big-Bore Part I (http://www.beartoothbullets.com/tech_notes/archive_tech_notes.htm/17)

BTB's .444 Marlin- America's Most Versatile Big-Bore Part II (http://www.beartoothbullets.com/tech_notes/archive_tech_notes.htm/19)

BTB's .444 Marlin- America's Most Versatile Big-Bore Part III (http://www.beartoothbullets.com/tech_notes/archive_tech_notes.htm/28)

My 444P (NIB, Ballard) shot cast boolits just as bad as my 444T (1972, MG). Lapping cut my group size in half on both rifles! Actually any Marlin shooter ought to read these three articles about the 444. Knowing what I now know about Marlin barrels, I slug and lap all of them (I have 14 of them).

The slugging and lapping process is very educational and will only cost you $45 for the first rifle. See the menu item labeled "Shopping Cart" and then "Lapping Kits". BTB can be pretty slow but he does get the kits out very quick. I would call instead of ordering online.

Finally, it's all about the boolit. Did you get in on the TLC432-285-RF group buy? If you are shooting anything less than .432" in diameter your boolit is too small to perform at big-game hunting velocities. My 444P might have the Ballard barrel but it still needs a .432" boolit just like my early 444T does. Anything smaller and both rifles shoot poorly.

There seems to be quite a trend for shooting boolits near or above 300-grains. I don't agree with it. As you exceed a boolit OAL of .735", you really start to rob the case of powder capacity. I cast the above referenced boolit with a 1 to 1 linotype/WW alloy and propel it at velocities up to 2400 FPS from my 444T. My favorite load pushes out the barrel a few FPS over 2300. I have shot cast boolits ranging from 240-grains up to 415-grains out of my rifles.

A new rifle is always worth getting but don't be surprised if it shoots the same.

[Bass Ackward]

MAybe if you described the problems you're having with the Micro-groove, some of our Marlin experts could give you some new ideas to try. There's also the possibilty it could something other than the barrel like bedding or ignition.


Exactly Bret. My guess is that that barrel would have been shot and cleaned enough over the years that it ought to be pretty fair for cast. And believe it or not, cut off about 1/4" and recrown for about $40 can put you backin business if cleaning was over done. I see a lot of levers with the blunderbus effect from poor cleaning techniques over the years.

But a new Marlin barrel would be 20 twist, Ballard that definately provides more options especially from bullet weight. I believe this would allow use of up to 350 grain bullets card blanche and @ 400 grain bullets if designed compactly. This would improve ignition and make the 444 a real thumper after the new barrel is broken in.

[357maximum]

Thanks guys, you have definately given me a lot to think about, and also made it clear I have some homework to do. I think the recrown is the second thing I will try right after some fatter boolits. My dad cleaned all his guns more than he proably should have, and he did it with them cheap aluminum rods and seeing as how this gun was cleaned from the muzzle, I think the crown could very well be less than ideal. Thanks again
Michael



Edit: The problem I have is that it shoots a 300 grain jacketed like it is trying to put all of em through the same hole, but when I have shot cast they won't land in the same zip code.

[405 WCF]

My old 1/38 micro-groove shoots my 350 gr Mountain Molds castbullets very accurate.
So, listen to Ranch Dog, and read Tech Notes on Beartooth!!!

[357maximum]

Thanks ever so much guys, I will take it to my smith for a recrown and give it another go round. Anybody have any 265+ grainers in gas check form I could beg, borrow, steal, buy, or trade for to try. I had access to a saeco 260 grainer (I think thats what it was), but the fellow past on and the mold dissappeared. I am getting in on the fat 44 group buy, but I would welcome and compensate for any boolits you guys think I should try and are willing to send me. I'll pay shipping, plus whatever else it takes to try the boolits that work for you....

I sincerely appreciate the help, both past, present, and the future. Everyone here still amazes me with the help and knowledge you all share freely. This is the only forums site I have ever truly felt at home at, and in all honesty I have been neglecting others simply because I have found "thee best".

thanks again
Michael

[Finn45]

Olle from Sweden hejsan; you finally made it here.

What comes to re-boring or re-barreling a .444 Marlin to .45-70 it would not be the most simple thing to do; many differences in mechanics, different receiver, different magazine tube, different bolt head... But re-doing to .450Marlin would be quite simple I think... But anyway, make it clear first what your rifle likes to do...

[Ranch Dog]

Pm...

[Four Fingers of Death]

Man that series of articles on the Beartooth site have got me wanting a 444 bad. Which is amusing, because I think back o all of the 444Marlins that I have turned my nose up at over the years. Boy was I on the wrong track. Mind you, I've got big bore hunting covered well with a 375Win Big Bore and an 1895marlin in 45/70, but those 444s have wetted my appetite bad.

In the meantime, I will apply those Beartooth principles to the Microgroove Bbl in the 1895. I have been humming and haaring with this rifle, wanting a Ballard Bbl and not giving the M/G a chance. Time to go down to the fishing shop and get some soft sinkers and get to work making the most of what I got and not just mooning about thinking about new and inventive ways to waste more money.

[405 WCF]

Moi Finn 45!
Yes, I finaly made it!
This is a really nice place for cast bullets shooters.
Very much interesting stuff to read.

//Olle

[Frank46]

I have a question, I've been following this thread and since I too have a 444 marlin with micro groove rifling I'd thought I'd ask this question. My 444 has micro groove rifling. That said it looks like very small grooves almost like V's in the bbl. However both my 357 and 44 magnum marlins have what I would call very shallow square rifling. Was it possible that mmarlin made different types of micro groove rifling maybe according to different calibers. Thanks, Frank

[Ranch Dog]

Frank... I don't think so. Not to be silly but I have seen some barrels that haven't been cleaned in a long time that look as you have described. The rifling on the 39A (22RF) looks a lot like what you describe but of course it is half the caliber and I've never looked at them that close.

Here is a picture of the rifling in my 336D, which is a limited run (1000) of Guide Guns chambered in 35 Remington. This is pretty interesting (only if you are a Marlin nut) because it bucks some of Marlin's rules. Ballard barrels are marked with "***" on each side of the model identification. So the barrels on this model are marked "***336D***" but they all have the Micro-Grooved rifling.

[Frank46]

Michael, thanks for the response. No you are not being funny by a long shot. The 357 & 44 mag both have the short squared rifling (pre safety) that I mentioned, but the big boy has the rifling somewhat like in my marlin model 25 22rf. i use 44 cal brushes to clean it so its kinda interesting. I have three rifles that need new crown, two are 1891 argies and the marlin 444. The 444 has a really bad crown on it. Couple of nice dents, looked like it was dropped on the muzzle. Frank

[tom barthel]

I have a micro grooved 444S and am thinking about getting it rebarrelled into a ballard, traditional groove bore, cause I think it would improve my accuracy with cast. I would love to hear any and all opinions on this as well as opinions on where/who to heve this done by. Thank You's in advance

Michael

I sent my .444 micro back to marlin for a rebarrel. I don't remember the cost but, it was much less than any of the smiths I contacted. I got a ballard rifled barrel that I believe is a one in twenty twist. I'm very happy with it. I even got the old micro barrel back. I'd give them a call first.

Good luck.

Tom:-D

[357maximum]

"I sent my .444 micro back to marlin for a rebarrel. I don't remember the cost but, it was much less than any of the smiths I contacted. I got a ballard rifled barrel that I believe is a one in twenty twist. I'm very happy with it. I even got the old micro barrel back. I'd give them a call first.

Good luck.

Tom"



Tom, thank you for the heads up,(I was wondering about twist rate) first thing friday morning they will get a call. I tried their email thingy, but no response yet, so I will reach out the old fashioned way,

I would like to extend a big THANK YOU to everyone who posted, I believe I am headed in the right dirction now, "BERTHA" will be back from her recrown on friday and we'll take her for a walk with the RD 265's this weekend and see where that leads.

Thanks again
Michael