Load development, sights

[awaveritt]

Okay, after my first trip to the range with the 1894 c, I'm ready to get down to loading for it. Will start out with what I have - Bullseye, 2400 and TL-358-158-SWC boolits, 38 and 357 brass & CCI 500's.

The buckhorn sights seem pretty coarse for 50 yard sandbagging with my eyes. Should I set up at 25 or 50 for load testing?

What is your routine for load development in a new rifle. Help me get organized!

[EDK]

Go over to marlinowners.com and look for Skinner sights. Somewhat more sophisticated (adjustment wise) would be a Lyman 66 or one of the Williams receiver sights. They would cut your groups in half!

:cbpour::redneck::Fire:

[Dragoon 45]

I put a Marbles Improved Tang with a short staff on my 1894 CB Ltd in .45 Colt. I can easily hold 2" groups at 100 yds with it. With gunsmithing cost included, I have a little of $100 in the sight and getting it mounted. I shoot both Holy Black and smokeless loads in it and the sight is easily adjusted for each load.

Can't help with the load development as I don't have a .357 or .38. Good luck though.

[Doc Highwall]

You can always mount a scope on it for load development and then take it off and mount a receiver or tang sight of your likening.

[Echo]

I always recommend initial sighting to be done @ 25 yards (I do initial grouping there). When it hits the bull of whatever target (within reason) you are using, then you can march out to 100 and your rifle will be close to sighted in.

[JSH]

I have shot 38 cases in my sons rifle, but accuracy falls off after about 20 rounds and then only gets worse. Then a very tough cleaning job comes in. I have since relegated this to 357 cases only.
As mentioned above I would scope it for load work then do as you please for irons after that.
Those groups look a lot like what i would get at 25-50 after shooting several rounds of 38's. Mine wouldn't chamber a 357 after about 10 38's.
The OAL that mine shoots the best will not work other than loaded single shot style. I need to work it over, another project that I have yet to start or finish. I did get the trigger fixed and working well though.
jeff

[NickSS]

I use one load for my 357 mag Marlin. It is a lee 158 gr RF bullet and 7 gr of Unique or 7.5 gr of Hurco (depending on what I have on hand. I also have a Williams receiver sight on it and I get around 3 inch groups at 100 yards.

[Jacko.357]

Not a Marlin but a .357 Rossi. I have tried Alliant 2400, Winchester W296, ADI AP70N[Hodgdon Universal] and ADI AR2205 Hodgdon H4227] and use commercial 158gr rnfp and 180 gr hornady style fp hardcast bullets

I have found 2400 gave me the best accuracy and developed good power. My bore slugged out to a groove diametre of .357


14gr 2400, CCI 550 sp primers , 158gr rnfp 358 dia, Federal nickel cases, approx 1620 fps

12.2 gr 2400, CCI 550 sp primers, 180 gr fp 358 dia, Federal Nickel cases, approx1305 fps

I also fitted a Lyman Tang sight - cant recommend highly enough how good a Tang sight is on a Lever rifle. I replaced the stock sights with a Skinner front blade and had a Skinner dovetail mounted peep and was very impressed with how much more accurate I shot with them. The Tang sight though when paired with the long sight radius of a 24" barrel is a step up again.

I also have a Marlin 1894 .44 mag, fitted a Williams FP plus target knobs to it, good sight and I am happy with it. Certainly halved my groups at 100 yards. Theory behind fitting the target knobs was easy adjustability- in practice you need a screw driver to loosen the lock screws thus rendering the easily adjusted target knobs useless, could have saved a lot of money an fitted a Skinner receiver sight http://skinnersights.com/ and acheived the same sight radius / accuracy and just carried an allen key to adjust elevation if needed. Tim is a good fella to deal with .

regards Jacko

[sharonk868]

Go over to marlinowners.com and look for Skinner sights. Somewhat more sophisticated (adjustment wise) would be a Lyman 66 or one of the Williams receiver sights. They would cut your groups in half!

:cbpour::redneck::Fire:


Hi !
I've just visited this forum. Happy to get acquainted with you. Thanks.

[Tony65x55]

Okay, after my first trip to the range with the 1894 c, I'm ready to get down to loading for it. Will start out with what I have - Bullseye, 2400 and TL-358-158-SWC boolits, 38 and 357 brass & CCI 500's.

The buckhorn sights seem pretty coarse for 50 yard sandbagging with my eyes. Should I set up at 25 or 50 for load testing?

What is your routine for load development in a new rifle. Help me get organized!

First things first. You need to specify what you want the load to do. Are you hunting with it or is it strictly for target shooting? If for target shooting, what degree of precision is necessary? If cost is a factor, how important is it? What distance are the targets?

Secondly, you need to remove all variables to the best of your ability. You are, after all, testing the load, not the rifle, and not your ability to shoot. So, put a scope on the rifle. The size of scope will be dependent on the range you wish to shoot and your budget. Save the aperture sights for shooting after you develop your load. Although you may get ribbed about it at the range, a scope of 12-16X is not amiss for load development.

As part of this, you need a decent rest, sandbags front AND back. Read a bit about basic benchrest shooting techniques, breathing techniques etc. Remember, it is the LOAD you are testing here. The rifle must be rock solid on the bags without your help. Obviously, if you have a high magnification scope on the rifle, your aiming point should be suitably small. It's no test of a load to hit an eight inch bull with a 16X scope at fifty yards.

When you have all these variables sorted out it is time to start your load development. If you don't have reloading data, it is time to get some. Guessing can be hazardous to your good looks.

If hunting with the load is part of the equation, you'll need to load warmer than you might with a load that is strictly for fifty yard paper punching (see point 1) Start low and work up to book max in increments of .5 grain. DO NOT EXCEED BOOK MAX. It is there for a reason and the companies that produce this stuff have pressure testing equipment you do not. Trust me, you are not better at this than they are.

Work up your loads in five shot groups, not three. Record your group sizes for each load tested. Also note any flyers you KNOW were caused by you. You may find (and you may not) that a particular amount of a particular powder shoots noticeably smaller groups than the others. Now you're zooming in on the sweet spot.

Take that load and go to ten shot groups. Load ten .2 of a grain above it and below it. Fire the three ten shot groups and compare the group size. When you determine the best one load ten shots .1 grain above and below it. When you check your groups size, bingo, the best load with that bullet and powder.

Change one thing like the bullet or powder, and start the whole procedure again. Don't worry about the primers at this stage. In your gun it is highly unlikely that a change of primer will do much of anything to the group. Possible? Yes, but unlikely.

Remember to keep your barrel clean and fire three shots before load testing to put a little bit of fouling in the barrel. On many guns, particularly those that have not had a proper barrel break in, the gun will throw the first couple of shots from a clean barrel out of the group.

It sounds like this is time consuming and meticulous and it is. The reward is a great shooting rifle that does what you want it to. Attention to detail is very important but in the end, it is worth it. You will know what your rifle is capable of and when you put the aperture sight on and start shooting more informally, you will know how much of the rifle's inaccuracy is the gun's, and how much is the shooter's.

I hope this helps.

[jlchucker]

I always recommend initial sighting to be done @ 25 yards (I do initial grouping there). When it hits the bull of whatever target (within reason) you are using, then you can march out to 100 and your rifle will be close to sighted in.

I pretty much do the same thing. Take a good shot up close like that, make your adjustments, then go for longer distances. Doing it this way, I never have felt any need for "boresighting"--which unless you're really lucky, just gets you on the paper anyway.

[jlchucker]

Hi !
I've just visited this forum. Happy to get acquainted with you. Thanks.

Welcome aboard. My friend EDK is right about the two receiver sights he mentions. If it were me (and I've used both) I'd go for a Williams FP before I'd pick one of the newer Lymans. The latter seem to have a bit of wobble built into them. Both are click-adjustable, and Williams arpertures can be used in either brand.

[northmn]

I have always replaced the open sights with receiver sights on my levers. Depending on use I have found the Williams 5D to be fine, but it is not as good if sight settings get changed a lot, but good if you want a sight for one load in a deer rifle that stays in year to year. shoot up close like suggested and then move out. Saves a lot of grief.

Northmn