M1 carbine info

[MtGun44]

I know essentially nothing about the M1 carbine, and was considering
purchasing one. My general interest is as a shooter and fun gun.
Any guidance on which manufacturers are better or worse from a
practical standpoint, especially accuracy, would be greatly appreciated.

I have read that they are pretty mediocre on accuracy, kind of like a
Mini14. Are there any simple 'fixes' that can significantly improve accuracy
or is this just a fact of life of the carbine? How much improvement does
good handloads make over milsurp ammo (altho I imagine that all of that
is pretty much been shot by now) or the Rooski steel case stuff that I
have seen at gun shows. I've never shot any of the steel case Russian
ammo in any of my guns (other than a few .45 ACP range pickup cases that I have
reloaded without drama) so have no idea if it is junk or OK stuff.

So is an Inland at $419 from CMP going to be pretty much the same
(with the luck of the draw, of course!) as an Underwood, or Saginaw or
Postal Meter or Winchester or whatever - they all cost some bit more
than the Inland. I am guessing this just collector interest, without any
bearing on accuracy or quality of fit and finish. Is this correct? My only
reference is a friend's Winchester Garand is THE roughest looking rifle
I have ever seen, and he tells me all the Win Garands are roughly made.
So maybe there is a difference in quality of manufacture between various
makers in the carbines.

Thanks in advance.

Bill

[Dutchman]

Books are god's way of telling us we need to read more :).

http://www.fulton-armory.com/MCarbParts.htm#Books

Nobody buys carbines thinking what a fine finished firearm they are. The CMP guns will be mix-masters and will be just what you want, a shooter without much pedigree. There's no bad carbines that I've ever heard about. I've owned 2 but have none now because they're basically nothing more than a street fighting facsimile of the afterbirth of a good idea. The Carbine, M1 shoulda been in .45 acp. That woulda been a fun little carbine.

A good rule of thumb for military firearms is pick the manufacturer who made the high production numbers. I'm not sure what that is with the carbine, might be one of the General Motors subsidiaries like Saginaw. Don't know. There's no "bad" ones. Those typewriter carbines may be the highest production. Or the juke box carbines. I fergit which:). Rockola & Underwood. If Inland is the least cost then I'd bet lead bullets its the highest production, the most common and therefore would be my choice for a generic out-the-window-drive-by-shootemup.

I handloaded a bunch once using Norma 92 gr RN FMJ. Zippy little suckers with a max load of H110.

People don't buy carbines with the word "accuracy" in the forefront of their minds, either. It is what it is. Very light, very fast, very handy, very fun. The only way it could be more fun is if it had breasts.

Probably not much help but interesting. I did a bunch of research on the Bavarian crests this guy wanted to know about.
http://www.bavarianm1carbines.com/rifles.html
CMP carbines
http://www.bavarianm1carbines.com/cmp.html

Dutch

[missionary5155]

Good evening
I bought an Inland 25 years ago (well swaped for it). Primarily got it to have a military auto loader to teach my two growing son's rifle markmanship. We fired many thousands of our own 120 grain Lee cast boollits reloading them on our Dilion.
Accuracy was as expected of a reworked, and re-wared vetran. But it was good enough to hunt bunnies, and terminate a couple coyotees. 3-4 " at 50 yards was common sitting accuracy and still is. Mixed parts & long firm trigger... BUT it was a very reliable shooter.

[TNsailorman]

The M1 Carbine was just what it was designed to be--a close range, short, light fighting carbine to replace the 1911 pistol for artillerymen, mortar crews, etc. I agree with the dutchman, it should have been produced in .45acp. It came to be used for a variety of other uses that it was not originally intended to perform. They are not Camp Perry match rifles but do well for their intended purpose. I have owned two and my dad owned one and we both loved to shoot them. I played with one by buying a new pot bellied M2 stock and glassing the action down tight and it was very acurrate out to 100 yards. The main acurracy impediment is the way they are set into the stock by a recoil lug at the rear with the rear of the reciever hooked into the recoil lug and only held up front by a stock band that holds the top handguard and the stock together. That allows a bit of movement and leaves the action and barrel free to move very slightly during recoil. Williams Gun Sight Company used to make a band for the front that used a screw thru the stock to tie down the action better but I have never personally seen one in use so don't know how well they worked. I have never noticed any difference in quality or accruracy between the different manufacturers but then I am not a collector and there are makes that I have never shot or even seen for that matter. The only Carbines that I would not be interested in are the civilian made models, which tend to be a little short on workmanship as a rule. My experience anyway, James

[zomby woof]

http://www.thecmp.org/pdfs/CMP_Carbine_Notes_2007.pdf

[003402]

I purchased an inland from the CMP about a year ago. Hand picked it at the north store in legendary camp perry, ohio. You can do the same at the anniston depot in alabama.

You are right, the price differences are primarily due to the volume and collectability of the fire arm. Inland (from GM) was one of the most produced, and most available carbine.

There are a number of bavarians that are being returned, but they are getting pricey, and you probably couldn't get one anyway.

They are a great "fun" gun. not much use for them other than that. I can shoot 2-3" off hand with mine at about 25 yards in its stock condition. Some folks use them as a trunk gun or a home defense.

If you are looking for a discussion area on them, you can also look at the cmp at www.odcmp.com look for the forum area.

only draw back is ammo is hard to come by/expensive. I reload all of mine. Just now trying cast boolits for it. none loaded yet, but a bunch cast.

BTW, I hand picked a WWII era model, based on serial number. All inland parts (none matching), but I added to my two CMP M1 WWII shooters.

[captain-03]

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=70989

All USGI Carbines were WWII production.

Inland Manufacturing Division, G.M.C................. 2,632,097 .... 43.0%
Winchester Repeating Arms Co............................. 828,059 .... 13.5%
Underwood-Elliot-Fisher Co................................... 545,616 ...... 8.9%
Saginaw Steering Gear Div., G.M.C........................ 517,212 ...... 8.5%
National Postal Meter Co....................................... 413,017 ...... 6.8%
Quality Hardware & Machine Co............................ 359,666 ...... 5.9%
International Business Machines Corp (IBM)......... 346,500 ...... 5.7%
Standard Products Co........................................... 247,160 ...... 4.0%
Rock-Ola Co................................................ ........... 228,500 ...... 3.7%
---------
Total: 6,221,220

[MtGun44]

Guys,

Thanks for all the info. The CMP article that zomby woof linked is awesome!
The info on Inland says it all. They made almost half of all of the carbines, so
I won't feel bad buying one of theirs.

Much appreciate all the info and opinions.

Happy New Year to you all.

Bill

[NickSS]

I used to collect carbines and had at one time 16 of them by all of the different manufacturers. I also shot all of them extensively both with cast and jacketed ammo. I can say that of the carbines I have owned they all shot about the same. At 100 yards I could shoot groups of around 3 to 4 inches with boring regularity and occasionally they would shrink down to around 2 inches. I sold all of them when the price started going crazy and my greed got too big. Recently I bought a brand new carbine made by auto ordinance before CMP started bringing in some. This carbine is a very close copy of the original Wartime M1 before the fat stocks, bayonet lugs and adjustable sights came in. I have put a milled adjustable sight on it and have shot it to date only with Jacketed factory loads (scrounging the brass to build up a supply. This Auto Oridnance carbine shoots better than any GI or commercial carbine I have ever owned in the past. I have gotten honest 1 to 1.5 inch five shot groups at 100 yards with it and the quality of the rifle is outstanding. I understand that Karr owns the factory now and their QC is much better than I ever saw from auto ordinance in the past.

[MtGun44]

Well, 3-4 inches isn't really all that bad. I had heard it was like 3-4 inches at
50 yds.

Bill

[Chunky Monkey]

I've been lurking in this thread cause I am taking next Friday (1/8/10) and making the pilgrimage to the North CMP store to pick up an M1 carbine. My M1 Garand is a little lonely.

Just decided to make the 5 hour drive, if I don't I may regret it someday. Leaving at 3:30 am to get there when they open!

Thanks for all the free info!

[captain-03]

I've been lurking in this thread cause I am taking next Friday (1/8/10) and making the pilgrimage to the North CMP store to pick up an M1 carbine. My M1 Garand is a little lonely.

Just decided to make the 5 hour drive, if I don't I may regret it someday. Leaving at 3:30 am to get there when they open!

Thanks for all the free info!

Have a safe trip and pick out a good 'un!!

[Chunky Monkey]

Have a safe trip and pick out a good 'un!!

Will do as long as the winter weather allows it! :Fire:

[Hi-Performance Bullet Coatings]

I imagine a lot of carbines were cleaned to death with those GI jointed steel cleaning rods. :(

[oldhickory]

Most Carbine bores are surprisingly good.:drinks:

[jimb16]

Boy! Some of you guys are really hard on carbines! Properly set up, a good carbine will hold under 4 inches at 100 yards. My offhand groups are only slightly over that. Good carbines with hand-tailored ammo can hold 2 inch groups from the bench with cast or jacketed loads. I have 14 carbines and they are all capable of sub 4 minute groupings. I've run tests on large numbers of carbines with muzzles ranging from .5 up to 6+ MW. The biggest source of accuracy problems is the action/stock fit. With proper fit, the 6+ carbine still held 4.5 inch 100 yard groups. The carbine was designed to be a 4 minute rifle, and you seldom find one that is NOT capable of holding that. BUT you must make sure you have a proper stock/barrel band/ receiver fit.

[ELFEGO BACA]

I purchased a Inland Carbine from the CMP a few years ago. My cast bullets from a group buy Lee from this site weigh about 122 grains. These plain base bullets work well for me.

[leadman]

I have 3 carbines, 2 from CMP and an import stamped with Blue Sky on the barrel.

With one of my CMP guns and the Remington SP, 296 powder, I was able to get several moa groups (4X scope). On the 296, the load on the CMP web-site seems to be about a grain too warm for my guns.
The Lee 113gr RFN and the 120 gr. RN shoot very good. Some guns don't like the 113gr and give feeding problems.

The little Sierra 110gr. HP is a very accurate bullet in these guns and feed in all my guns. This is my coyote load when I get around to going for them.

[corvette8n]

I had a blue sky import Inland but when the bbl heated up the groups went to 6-8 inches at 100yds. I traded that off and got an IBM from the CMP, I've only plinked with it so far so I don't know how it will do at 100 yards. Man I gotta get to the range.

[shotman]

well I must have a real bad one about 10 to 12 in at 25 yds is about it but it does fire all 20 in about 3 sec

[leadman]

Shotman, sounds like you have an m-2, not an m-1. LOL. Would it shoot smaller groups ir you shot 3 in 20 seconds?
They are fun though, aren't they??

[Chunky Monkey]

I made it to CMP north store Saturday. Man it was like being in heaven (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?p=775365#post775365)!!

[doubs43]

I qualified "Expert" with the M-1 Carbine in March, 1965, when I was in Air Force basic training. They were pretty worn having seen years of constant use and many of them jammed often. I was lucky and drew one that functioned flawlessly. It was also accurate enough to tear the center from the target.

A book that would be of interest to anyone who likes WW2 US military arms is "Shots Fired in Anger" by Lt.Col. John B. George. I got my copy through the NRA bookstore years ago. The author has a very high opinion of the carbine and mentions it often. He also provides a critique of all US and Japanese small arms used during WW2. It's a book worth having, written by a man who saw extensive combat in the Pacific and who details a lot of his experiences.