idahoron
12-28-2009, 09:53 AM
Part 2
On my 50 cal my gun likes bigger bullets than .504 but I size the Paper patched bullets to .501 this gives me a bullet that goes down with resistance but not real hard. After hunting with these bullets for a couple of years I know they will not come off the charge.
My 45 is .458, and it likes bullets that are .454 naked. I size these to .451 I could probably go to .452 for a finished size but the .451 load well and are very accurate. I don’t use any lube on the paper when I am sizing the paper patched bullet. The reason is the lube can and does cause the paper to rip off the bullet when seating the bullet. I size dry and add some lube when I am target shooting but leave them dry when I am hunting.
Here is a target that shows the benefit of the paper patch.
http://i.imgur.com/BI2m1zF.jpg
This is a couple of targets from one of my 50’s. The bullet was a 500 S&W bullet made with the Lee bullet mould.
https://i.imgur.com/Ck1HerI.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/m3UN5SQ.jpg
This is the rifle. I made this rifle for my son to someday shoot a moose with if he ever draws.
It is a double triggers TC Renegade with a 1-28 twist 50 cal Stainless steel Green Mountain barrel. The rear sight is the same as the other rifle. The front sight is a Lyman 17 AML. This is the rifle I shot the buck with later in the article.
https://i.imgur.com/JlO6298.jpg
I started to think a couple of years ago that Hornady would someday quit making the 410 gr 50 cal Great plains bullet, turns out I was right. That’s what started me to thinking about making my own bullets. I started out not doing the paper patch. I just got discouraged with my lead bullets because I was not getting the groups I wanted out of my rifles. I found an article about paper patching and wanted to try it. Since then I have played with paper type, bullet hardness, you name it I tried it. One thing I have found is paper patch bullets sometimes need a wad between the bullet and the powder, I make my own. I use a 3/8 pipe nipple and sharpen one end for the 45. For my 50 I use a 1/2 “ pipe nipple. I then cut out my wads out of wool felt I get from a fabric store. The 3/8 pipe will cut a wad that measures about, .505
The 1/2" pipe with cut a wad about .507 to .508. I like my wads to be oversized to make a sure seal and not let any gas get around the wad. I lube the wad with Hornady Great Plains lube. On a few barrels I use a little chapstick for lube right before the bullet is pushed into the barrel.
One thing I have found is when you paper patch a bullet you get higher velocity from your normal charge. In the picture above you can see that the point of impact raised when I shot the paper patched bullets.
For me the paper patching has opened up my options in what I can shoot in my rifles. These days it seems like everyone is going to sabots. While I have had good luck with them we can’t use them to hunt here in Idaho. So I needed to find another way, and the factory conicals in my opinion are either great or ****. I love the Hornady Great Plains 410 gr 50 cal. Here is a TC bullet I found in one of my packs I bought.
https://i.imgur.com/8IHXraA.jpg
With this kind of bullet out there I had to try to make my own. I hope I can help other guys that are looking for a different way to get good shooting bullets.
And last the final product of the paper patching. Here are some game animals that a friend of mine and I killed with paper patched 460 gr 500 S&W bullets. My buck (the bigger one) was shot at a little over 100 yards. The bullet was a pass through and was not found.
https://i.imgur.com/daB0nu9.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/o2aCp7q.jpg
My load is 80 gr of Pyrodex P, a 460 gr paper patched bullet, and an over powder wad.
I tested this load a bunch in my rifle. I also have an Ohler 35 chronograph so I know what the rifle is REALLY doing .
velocity foot pounds of energy
muzzle 1310 1753
100 yards 1165 1387
150 yards 1108 1255
200 yards 1061 1151
250 yards 1022 1067
300 yards 988 997
This was written several years ago. Since then there are some things that I have changed. First I am hardening my lead a little. I am hardening it to .035 to .038 on my Cabine Tree hardness tester. This is a hardness of about 6 to 7 BHN but the actual BHN doesn't matter really. The most important thing is the dial indicator reading of .035 to .038 for my tester. I am sure that each tester is a little different.
https://i.imgur.com/xjbGBh9.jpg
Since I am on the topic of hardness if a person uses my method that I have described you don't want lead much harder than what I have posted. A young man sent me some bullets to patch and size. This is what happened.
https://i.imgur.com/X7nQM6q.jpg
These bullets were about 9 BHN I don't recall the actual dial indicator reading on these bullets. After I wrapped them I put them through the sizer. The paper tore right off. After a few tries I tested the lead and found it was hard. If a person makes bullets from lead harder than 7 BHN you need to wrap them and size them fresh. After they age harden you will not get them through the sizer without damage to the paper. In some cases the bullet may even get stuck in the sizer die.
My recommendation is to not use lead that is harder than .038 on the dial indicator.
I also want to make another update. This year Dec, 2017 is my 10th year paper patching the Lee 500 S&W bullet. I have learned some things in the last year that I didn't know before. First After I shot my groups and got my guns sighted in many years ago I switched from shooting paper to shooting steel. I haven't shot a paper group in many years. My Friend Lewis alerted me to the fact that some of his papers were riding all the way to the target.
I confirmed that some of mine were also being found at the target as well. I find paper on the ground in front of my target so I am thinking that at least in my case that some of the paper comes off and some is staying on. Lewis did a lot of testing with a couple different styles of paper and a lot of different bullets. I am using the 25% cotton paper that I was using many years ago. It is my thinking that when the powder goes off the bullet sets back and the grease grooves are pinching the paper in the grooves close to the base. Like I said before I am not sure how much is sticking and how often. But this is something to keep in mind. I know that the paper that I linked to above from the papermill store is a slicker finish than the cotton paper 9# onion skin that I am using.
Does the paper sticking affect the accuracy? I am sure it doesn't help. But from what I have seen over the years my bullets hit where they are supposed to out to 250 yards for my 50's, and 300 yards for my 45.
The paper I am using adds .006 to the diameter of the bullet. A smooth sided bullet in my opinion would probably do better for long range in the accuracy department. The paper would have a harder time sticking. But I have also read where guys shooting BPCR's are also seeing paper stick to their bullets too.
When it comes to my loads I am confident in my bullets ability to kill game quickly and efficiently. I am also confident in my, and my son's ability to put those bullets on the intended target out to 200 yards in all my guns. My original intent 10 years ago was to take an off the shelf mould, and sizer, and come up with a combination that would work better than factory made bullets. There are more moulds now than when I originally did this. Also internet commerce has changed a lot in the last 10 years. Getting custom moulds now is easy to do and the makers are easier to find and talk to for information. Getting custom sizer dies are also much, much easier to do now than 10 years ago. And in the last 10 years since I originally wrote this, a lot of guys are now paper patching, and most who started out with my guidelines have went on to change what they are doing and make their loads fit their needs. In the last 10 years I have had good luck with paper patching bullets. I am thankful that Hornady stopped making the 410 gr 50 cal bullets. They pushed me to find something better for me and my son. I am going to add some pictures from the last 10 years. Good luck and good shooting. Also I will add a short video that covers a lot of this.
I hope that this gives a little info on the paper patched hunting bullet. If you have questions feel free to ask. Ron
https://youtu.be/RmARVEFJbr0
https://i.imgur.com/3VJcFNE.jpg
On my 50 cal my gun likes bigger bullets than .504 but I size the Paper patched bullets to .501 this gives me a bullet that goes down with resistance but not real hard. After hunting with these bullets for a couple of years I know they will not come off the charge.
My 45 is .458, and it likes bullets that are .454 naked. I size these to .451 I could probably go to .452 for a finished size but the .451 load well and are very accurate. I don’t use any lube on the paper when I am sizing the paper patched bullet. The reason is the lube can and does cause the paper to rip off the bullet when seating the bullet. I size dry and add some lube when I am target shooting but leave them dry when I am hunting.
Here is a target that shows the benefit of the paper patch.
http://i.imgur.com/BI2m1zF.jpg
This is a couple of targets from one of my 50’s. The bullet was a 500 S&W bullet made with the Lee bullet mould.
https://i.imgur.com/Ck1HerI.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/m3UN5SQ.jpg
This is the rifle. I made this rifle for my son to someday shoot a moose with if he ever draws.
It is a double triggers TC Renegade with a 1-28 twist 50 cal Stainless steel Green Mountain barrel. The rear sight is the same as the other rifle. The front sight is a Lyman 17 AML. This is the rifle I shot the buck with later in the article.
https://i.imgur.com/JlO6298.jpg
I started to think a couple of years ago that Hornady would someday quit making the 410 gr 50 cal Great plains bullet, turns out I was right. That’s what started me to thinking about making my own bullets. I started out not doing the paper patch. I just got discouraged with my lead bullets because I was not getting the groups I wanted out of my rifles. I found an article about paper patching and wanted to try it. Since then I have played with paper type, bullet hardness, you name it I tried it. One thing I have found is paper patch bullets sometimes need a wad between the bullet and the powder, I make my own. I use a 3/8 pipe nipple and sharpen one end for the 45. For my 50 I use a 1/2 “ pipe nipple. I then cut out my wads out of wool felt I get from a fabric store. The 3/8 pipe will cut a wad that measures about, .505
The 1/2" pipe with cut a wad about .507 to .508. I like my wads to be oversized to make a sure seal and not let any gas get around the wad. I lube the wad with Hornady Great Plains lube. On a few barrels I use a little chapstick for lube right before the bullet is pushed into the barrel.
One thing I have found is when you paper patch a bullet you get higher velocity from your normal charge. In the picture above you can see that the point of impact raised when I shot the paper patched bullets.
For me the paper patching has opened up my options in what I can shoot in my rifles. These days it seems like everyone is going to sabots. While I have had good luck with them we can’t use them to hunt here in Idaho. So I needed to find another way, and the factory conicals in my opinion are either great or ****. I love the Hornady Great Plains 410 gr 50 cal. Here is a TC bullet I found in one of my packs I bought.
https://i.imgur.com/8IHXraA.jpg
With this kind of bullet out there I had to try to make my own. I hope I can help other guys that are looking for a different way to get good shooting bullets.
And last the final product of the paper patching. Here are some game animals that a friend of mine and I killed with paper patched 460 gr 500 S&W bullets. My buck (the bigger one) was shot at a little over 100 yards. The bullet was a pass through and was not found.
https://i.imgur.com/daB0nu9.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/o2aCp7q.jpg
My load is 80 gr of Pyrodex P, a 460 gr paper patched bullet, and an over powder wad.
I tested this load a bunch in my rifle. I also have an Ohler 35 chronograph so I know what the rifle is REALLY doing .
velocity foot pounds of energy
muzzle 1310 1753
100 yards 1165 1387
150 yards 1108 1255
200 yards 1061 1151
250 yards 1022 1067
300 yards 988 997
This was written several years ago. Since then there are some things that I have changed. First I am hardening my lead a little. I am hardening it to .035 to .038 on my Cabine Tree hardness tester. This is a hardness of about 6 to 7 BHN but the actual BHN doesn't matter really. The most important thing is the dial indicator reading of .035 to .038 for my tester. I am sure that each tester is a little different.
https://i.imgur.com/xjbGBh9.jpg
Since I am on the topic of hardness if a person uses my method that I have described you don't want lead much harder than what I have posted. A young man sent me some bullets to patch and size. This is what happened.
https://i.imgur.com/X7nQM6q.jpg
These bullets were about 9 BHN I don't recall the actual dial indicator reading on these bullets. After I wrapped them I put them through the sizer. The paper tore right off. After a few tries I tested the lead and found it was hard. If a person makes bullets from lead harder than 7 BHN you need to wrap them and size them fresh. After they age harden you will not get them through the sizer without damage to the paper. In some cases the bullet may even get stuck in the sizer die.
My recommendation is to not use lead that is harder than .038 on the dial indicator.
I also want to make another update. This year Dec, 2017 is my 10th year paper patching the Lee 500 S&W bullet. I have learned some things in the last year that I didn't know before. First After I shot my groups and got my guns sighted in many years ago I switched from shooting paper to shooting steel. I haven't shot a paper group in many years. My Friend Lewis alerted me to the fact that some of his papers were riding all the way to the target.
I confirmed that some of mine were also being found at the target as well. I find paper on the ground in front of my target so I am thinking that at least in my case that some of the paper comes off and some is staying on. Lewis did a lot of testing with a couple different styles of paper and a lot of different bullets. I am using the 25% cotton paper that I was using many years ago. It is my thinking that when the powder goes off the bullet sets back and the grease grooves are pinching the paper in the grooves close to the base. Like I said before I am not sure how much is sticking and how often. But this is something to keep in mind. I know that the paper that I linked to above from the papermill store is a slicker finish than the cotton paper 9# onion skin that I am using.
Does the paper sticking affect the accuracy? I am sure it doesn't help. But from what I have seen over the years my bullets hit where they are supposed to out to 250 yards for my 50's, and 300 yards for my 45.
The paper I am using adds .006 to the diameter of the bullet. A smooth sided bullet in my opinion would probably do better for long range in the accuracy department. The paper would have a harder time sticking. But I have also read where guys shooting BPCR's are also seeing paper stick to their bullets too.
When it comes to my loads I am confident in my bullets ability to kill game quickly and efficiently. I am also confident in my, and my son's ability to put those bullets on the intended target out to 200 yards in all my guns. My original intent 10 years ago was to take an off the shelf mould, and sizer, and come up with a combination that would work better than factory made bullets. There are more moulds now than when I originally did this. Also internet commerce has changed a lot in the last 10 years. Getting custom moulds now is easy to do and the makers are easier to find and talk to for information. Getting custom sizer dies are also much, much easier to do now than 10 years ago. And in the last 10 years since I originally wrote this, a lot of guys are now paper patching, and most who started out with my guidelines have went on to change what they are doing and make their loads fit their needs. In the last 10 years I have had good luck with paper patching bullets. I am thankful that Hornady stopped making the 410 gr 50 cal bullets. They pushed me to find something better for me and my son. I am going to add some pictures from the last 10 years. Good luck and good shooting. Also I will add a short video that covers a lot of this.
I hope that this gives a little info on the paper patched hunting bullet. If you have questions feel free to ask. Ron
https://youtu.be/RmARVEFJbr0
https://i.imgur.com/3VJcFNE.jpg