.45 AR loads in ACP cases?

[NHlever]

I was reading through some old loading manuals this morning, and came across several heavy boolit loads for the .45 AR case. I was wondering if there would be any problem loading them in ACP cases. I have a Ruger Blackhawk convertable, and no semi autos in that caliber. Is the case capacity the same? Some of the loads (old Speer manual) seem pretty hot, but even the start loads look interesting. The only point in the exercise, since I already have a .45 Colt cylinder is a walkabout round using less powder at around 1000 fps.

[Larry Gibson]

If the older Speer .45AR loads were for balloon head cases the capacity is greater. Speer made a differentiation in the cases used. I've one Speer manual that has loads for both balloon head and solid head cases. I've been loading heavy bullet loads for the .45 AR for many years. I got rid of my old balloon head cases and stick to solid head cases both of .45AR and .45 ACP flavor. I use the same loads in ACP cases as I use in the AR cases.

The potential prblem you have with heavier bullets in the ACP cases when not using the clips is one of bullets moving out of the case due to recoil. Since the ACP case must headspace on the case mouth when the clip is not used (like in your Ruger) there is no crimp to keep the bullets in a case under heavy recoil. I only had that problem with heavier 260 gr Keith type bullets though. The lighter bullets don't have that problem.

Larry Gibson

[StarMetal]

NHlever,

If your Ruger 45acp cylinder is anything like mine (tightest 45acp chamber I've ever seen and everything has to be perfect for my reloads to fit them) you can roll a pretty good crimp on those cases and not worry one iota about them catching the chamber ledge to head space on. I've shot some heavy bullet heavy loads from my Ruger with no problems at all. I will tell you that the 250 grain swage bullet load in the Speer #9 are pretty stout for use with the 45acp in the 1911's. I have no problems with bullet movement in the Ruger. You certainly don't have to worry about a bullet moving forward and tying up the cylinder because that bullet has quite a jump through that long throat. Never make it that far before you fired all your rounds off.

Joe

[35remington]

I've got the same manual, I bet....the Speer number 8. I wouldn't shoot the heaviest loads, like the 15.0 2400 load, necessarily, with either 45 ACP or Auto Rim cases but then that load is with the Lyman 452423 of approximately 240 grains.

With 13.0/2400 and various 255's SWC's that don't seat too deeply I obtain right about at your 1000 fps requirement in AR brass in my 5 inch 625-3.

I've done heavier loadings in the ACP case, and I've found them pretty darn close to the capacity of AR brass. I've never shot the balloon head variety. Seating depth will have as much or more effect on pressures than brass type.

With the heaviest loads, and agreeing with Larry it's my opinion that the AR brass may (not necessarily will) offer some advantage in the revolver due to a roll crimp being applicable. Depending upon how you headspace your rounds there may be a way around this.

With most loads and a fairly heavy revolver this isn't a problem and really isn't in my 625-3 but I once shot a 1917 whose brass/bullet/die combination coupled with the bullet weight and the revolver's weight allowed some of the heavy bullets to creep forward a little in ACP brass, but then it sorta had oversized cylinder throats. It may not be a problem in your gun with your dies. With the .4515" throats on my 625-3 and my dies it doesn't seem to be an issue either.

Look at Beagle's article on heavy bullets in the 45 revolver on castpics.net....it's pretty good and he makes some comments on the particularly deep seating needed in his Ruger revolver's ACP/Auto Rim cylinder. His loads would be considered plus P, especially in light of the deep seating needed for some rounds. He used auto brass, and the deep seating with some bullets means modest powder charges were needed, obtaining rather high velocities for the charge weight.

Some of the loads given in other places for the heavy bullets will definitely be excessive if the bullet is deep seated for your gun.

[Bullshop Junior]

I shorted my cracked 45 colt cases, and load heavy boolits in them using my own load data. Kind of like 45 Ar's but with a thinner rim.

[StarMetal]

I've got the same manual, I bet....the Speer number 8. I wouldn't shoot the heaviest loads, like the 15.0 2400 load, necessarily, with either 45 ACP or Auto Rim cases but then that load is with the Lyman 452423 of approximately 240 grains.

With 13.0/2400 and various 255's SWC's that don't seat too deeply I obtain right about at your 1000 fps requirement in AR brass in my 5 inch 625-3.

I've done heavier loadings in the ACP case, and I've found them pretty darn close to the capacity of AR brass. I've never shot the balloon head variety. Seating depth will have as much or more effect on pressures than brass type.

With the heaviest loads, and agreeing with Larry it's my opinion that the AR brass may (not necessarily will) offer some advantage in the revolver due to a roll crimp being applicable. Depending upon how you headspace your rounds there may be a way around this.

With most loads and a fairly heavy revolver this isn't a problem and really isn't in my 625-3 but I once shot a 1917 whose brass/bullet/die combination coupled with the bullet weight and the revolver's weight allowed some of the heavy bullets to creep forward a little in ACP brass, but then it sorta had oversized cylinder throats. It may not be a problem in your gun with your dies. With the .4515" throats on my 625-3 and my dies it doesn't seem to be an issue either.

Look at Beagle's article on heavy bullets in the 45 revolver on castpics.net....it's pretty good and he makes some comments on the particularly deep seating needed in his Ruger revolver's ACP/Auto Rim cylinder. His loads would be considered plus P, especially in light of the deep seating needed for some rounds. He used auto brass, and the deep seating with some bullets means modest powder charges were needed, obtaining rather high velocities for the charge weight.

Some of the loads given in other places for the heavy bullets will definitely be excessive if the bullet is deep seated for your gun.

I can certainly agree with Beagle's deep seating the bullet for the Ruger acp cylinder. Like I said mine has very tight chambers and everything has to be just right including that the bullet can't be loaded too far out. I will tell you that I have shot some stout 45 acp loads of it with heavy bullets and my bullets don't move anywhere. I'm not sure that they can in my Ruger's cylinder.

Joe

[Bullshop Junior]

I can certainly agree with Beagle's deep seating the bullet for the Ruger acp cylinder. Like I said mine has very tight chambers and everything has to be just right including that the bullet can't be loaded too far out. I will tell you that I have shot some stout 45 acp loads of it with heavy bullets and my bullets don't move anywhere. I'm not sure that they can in my Ruger's cylinder.

Joe
I don't have any problems with my Ruger. I can shoot SWC (up to 250gr) boolits seated to the crimp groove with no problem.

That is in shortened 45 colt cases. I use a lee zip trimmer to trim them back, and they come out about .012" longer then the book trim length.

[StarMetal]

I don't have any problems with my Ruger. I can shoot SWC (up to 250gr) boolits seated to the crimp groove with no problem.

That is in shortened 45 colt cases. I use a lee zip trimmer to trim them back, and they come out about 0.0012" longer then the book trim length.


Junior,

I didnt' say that I had problems. I said that my acp cylinder is so tight that if the reloads aren't just perfect they won't chamber.

Joe

[Bullshop Junior]

Junior,

I didnt' say that I had problems. I said that my acp cylinder is so tight that if the reloads aren't just perfect they won't chamber.

Joe
Joe,

I never said that you did.

I said that I don't.

[bob208]

you could send it back and have another .45 acp cyl. fitted. then when you get the gun back have that one chambered to .45 ar. then you have the capabilty o fire .45 colt .45 acp and .45ar all in the same pistol.

[StarMetal]

you could send it back and have another .45 acp cyl. fitted. then when you get the gun back have that one chambered to .45 ar. then you have the capabilty o fire .45 colt .45 acp and .45ar all in the same pistol.

Might as well go whole hog and get two more cylinders and chamber the 2nd one out to 45 Win mag. Then you can shoot 45 Colt, 45 Schoefield, 45acp, 45AR, and 45 Win mag.

Joe

[35remington]

I don't have all the answers in regards to bullets pulling out of the cases as I have only shot what I've shot, which a few ACP/AR revolvers.

I didn't have a problem with most loads, granting that the most heavy bullets were shot at 45 ACP speeds in 45 ACP cases as I found these loads most suitable for me.

I've done a minor amount of heavy loads in 45 ACP cases, but Auto Rim seems a little more suited for that given my revolver and my sometimes use of 2400. I've done a lot more of the heavier loadings in the AR case.

It seems to me the AR/ACP does better with 2400 and the 255's and similar weights than the 230's, as the various 230 grain bullets actually lost about 60-70 f/s with the same charge of 2400, and the faster powders seemed to outdo 2400 with 230's at reasonable pressures. I'm not enthusiastic about the 452423 with 2400, either, but then I haven't exceeded 13 grains with it. Maybe I should, but the heavier ones work pretty good and I haven't worked up any interest in it.

I like to think that maybe a crimp and a little better loading density and the resistance of the heavier bullet make 2400 work in the AR case. I can't see using it any other way as a powder for the ACP/AR.

Anyone see Sierra's data for fast powders and 230's in AR/ACP revolvers?

Anyone tried these loads or anything similar yet? They claim 1100 fps with fast powders. I haven't tried doing that speed with that bullet weight with fast powder (intentionally anyway), but I have shot 185's at around 1250. Used the old #8 data some years ago, backed off some to compensate for my conscience, and did right well with some fairly zippy loading of Unique.

This gun shoots 185's really well, and that's why I went deer hunting with it.

[StarMetal]

I don't have all the answers in regards to bullets pulling out of the cases as I have only shot what I've shot, which a few ACP/AR revolvers.

I didn't have a problem with most loads, granting that the most heavy bullets were shot at 45 ACP speeds in 45 ACP cases as I found these loads most suitable for me.

I've done a minor amount of heavy loads in 45 ACP cases, but Auto Rim seems a little more suited for that given my revolver and my sometimes use of 2400. I've done a lot more of the heavier loadings in the AR case.

It seems to me the AR/ACP does better with 2400 and the 255's and similar weights than the 230's, as the various 230 grain bullets actually lost about 60-70 f/s with the same charge of 2400, and the faster powders seemed to outdo 2400 with 230's at reasonable pressures. I'm not enthusiastic about the 452423 with 2400, either, but then I haven't exceeded 13 grains with it. Maybe I should, but the heavier ones work pretty good and I haven't worked up any interest in it.

I like to think that maybe a crimp and a little better loading density and the resistance of the heavier bullet make 2400 work in the AR case. I can't see using it any other way as a powder for the ACP/AR.

Anyone see Sierra's data for fast powders and 230's in AR/ACP revolvers?

Anyone tried these loads or anything similar yet? They claim 1100 fps with fast powders. I haven't tried doing that speed with that bullet weight with fast powder (intentionally anyway), but I have shot 185's at around 1250. Used the old #8 data some years ago, backed off some to compensate for my conscience, and did right well with some fairly zippy loading of Unique.

This gun shoots 185's really well, and that's why I went deer hunting with it.

I've also shot heavy bullets from the 45acp case in my two carbines which are the semi Thompson and the semi HK UPC Carbine. Both with 16 inch barrels. I really didn't see a significant worthwhile increase in velocity. Notice I said worthwhile, as I did see an increase with the 16 barrels. Totally different shooting the hotter heavier bullets in those two carbines as the recoil is not very different from standard 45acp loading. You can bet they are noticeable in a 1911. They get your attention in my 4 5/8 barreled Ruger Blackhawk too.

Joe

[NHlever]

I think I will stick to boolits that are230 grains, and under for the most part in my ACP cylinder. I wll shoot some heavier loads in the 45 Scholfield brass. I like to be able to tell which loads I have at a glance so that was my reason for asking. I'll probably use the old standby 8-9 grains of Unique for a walkabout load with the 250's. It is a good excuse to buy a mold with a different nose shape. :D I have a mold for the 300 gr., and shot quite a few of them in my old vaquero, and 45 Colt Marlin Cowboy, but I really don't need those bear loads these days. Maybe I'll get the 454260 that folks seem to like, or the RCBS cowboy boolit mold.

[StarMetal]

I think I will stick to boolits that are230 grains, and under for the most part in my ACP cylinder. I wll shoot some heavier loads in the 45 Scholfield brass. I like to be able to tell which loads I have at a glance so that was my reason for asking. I'll probably use the old standby 8-9 grains of Unique for a walkabout load with the 250's. It is a good excuse to buy a mold with a different nose shape. :D I have a mold for the 300 gr., and shot quite a few of them in my old vaquero, and 45 Colt Marlin Cowboy, but I really don't need those bear loads these days. Maybe I'll get the 454260 that folks seem to like, or the RCBS cowboy boolit mold.

NHlever,

You said something that makes a lot of sense to me and that is that you really don't need those bear loads these days. I honestly think of these big heavy weights today as back in the hot rodding days when everyone just had to have bigger and bigger and bigger cubic inches. If I'm not hunting some big game animal I'm sure as heck not shooting 300 grains 45 bullets from my Ruger 45 Colt. No sense in wasting that much lead and beating my hand up either.

My exercise in shooting the 250-255 grains from the ACP case in my Ruger was just to see what they were capable of and also to compare the accuracy with the same bullets in the 45 Colt case. In the 16 inch carbines it was just to see what velocity I could pick up.

Joe

[softpoint]

You don't need another cylinder modified to use AR only, I just had small countersinks machined in my Blackhawk cylinder to accept AR case rims, and now the cylinder works perfectly with either ACP or AR brass. 14 grains of 2400 with a 250 gr. boolit is a load I keep around for a "woodswalking" load.A 200 gr. SWC with 5 to 6 gr. of 231 makes an "everyday" load. :castmine:

[NHlever]

You don't need another cylinder modified to use AR only, I just had small countersinks machined in my Blackhawk cylinder to accept AR case rims, and now the cylinder works perfectly with either ACP or AR brass. 14 grains of 2400 with a 250 gr. boolit is a load I keep around for a "woodswalking" load.A 200 gr. SWC with 5 to 6 gr. of 231 makes an "everyday" load. :castmine:

That is one of those "why didn't I think of that" things. It doesn't leave too much of the case unsupported?

[softpoint]

That is one of those "why didn't I think of that" things. It doesn't leave too much of the case unsupported?

No, it just countersinks the thick rims of AR case enough to headspace. 1911's have far more unsupported area than the Ruger does after the modification. Some folks will say "Why use AR brass in the Ruger, when it will extract anyway", but it does let me crimp any way I want to for revolver loads, and I feed 2 625's as well as 3 1911's, and it keeps my loads positively separated . And I prefer field loads for the 625's to be in Auto Rim brass.
A surprisingly small amount of countersink does the trick on the Ruger. I didn't do that one myself, Alan Harton of Houston TX. did it. He is a pretty good all around single action mechanic as well. He recut the forcing cone, and honed out the cylinder throats on this Blackhawk too, and it shoots every bit as good as my 625's now. It is a 4 ⅝ inch hawk.[smilie=w:

[StarMetal]

Before you run off and do that first test your cylinder out of the gun with some AR cases. What we are looking for is that they insert all the way and the rims don't touch or bind on the star. I say this because talking to a few people some of the star thicknesses are different and one of my friends cylinders won't let the rim slip pas the star. He said he has seen more then one like that. Mine does. So that means if your cylinder won't let them slip past the star that if you wanted to have your cylinder countersunk that the machinist would have to nick out part of side on that star. Here's a pic of the AR's in my 45acp cylinder. Notice how the rims fit along side the star. As told some don't:
http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg51/starmetal47/45AR.jpg

Joe

[softpoint]

There is a tiny amount of metal relieved from the star on my cylinder. Doesn't hurt anything. I know of two other cylinders that have been done, and they were relieved at the star a tiny bit.

[StarMetal]

There is a tiny amount of metal relieved from the star on my cylinder. Doesn't hurt anything. I know of two other cylinders that have been done, and they were relieved at the star a tiny bit.

That clears it up. Nice idea. Thanks for the picture.

Joe

[Bullshop Junior]

Why buy the 45 AR's when you can shorten cracked 45 colts? Then you don't have to pay to modify the cylinder.

[Dale53]

Softpoint;
That's a nice picture that fully illustrates the conversion.

Bullshop Junior;
My Ruger .45ACP cylinder will not permit shortened Colt cases to chamber (the revolver doesn't have sufficient headspace for the rims). If you mean to shorten the Colt cases to ACP length to use in your Colt cylinder, that'll work. However, it TOO presents a potential problem. Some shortened Colt cases might have reduced capacity compared to same length .45 ACP cases. It needs to be checked before you start using them without measuring case capacity.

The "other" solution (albeit more expensive) is to simply use .45 Cowboy Special cases. They have the same capacity as .45 Auto Rim and .45 ACP cases but have the .45 Colt rim. This is for use in the .45 Colt cylinder (there is insufficient headspace in the .45 ACP cylinder to use these cases).

FWIW, a bit confusing, but fun to explore...
Dale53

[Bullshop Junior]

Softpoint;
That's a nice picture that fully illustrates the conversion.

Bullshop Junior;
My Ruger .45ACP cylinder will not permit shortened Colt cases to chamber (the revolver doesn't have sufficient headspace for the rims). If you mean to shorten the Colt cases to ACP length to use in your Colt cylinder, that'll work. However, it TOO presents a potential problem. Some shortened Colt cases might have reduced capacity compared to same length .45 ACP cases. It needs to be checked before you start using them without measuring case capacity.

The "other" solution (albeit more expensive) is to simply use .45 Cowboy Special cases. They have the same capacity as .45 Auto Rim and .45 ACP cases but have the .45 Colt rim. This is for use in the .45 Colt cylinder (there is insufficient headspace in the .45 ACP cylinder to use these cases).

FWIW, a bit confusing, but fun to explore...
Dale53
I have no problem cambering 45 short colts in my ACP cylinder.

I did a side by side comparison and Star-line, and R-P (The two brands I have the most of) have more capacity then ACP cases, and I could load them up with 2gr more of the same powder then I could the ACP brass.

[softpoint]

Why buy the 45 AR's when you can shorten cracked 45 colts? Then you don't have to pay to modify the cylinder.
True, except the shortened .45 colt won't work in my Smith & Wessons. And interchangeability is the reason I had my Blackhawk cylinder countersunk. I keep my revolver loads separate from my 1911 loads that way. I sometimes load the Lyman 452424 (Ithink?) in loads for both revolver and auto pistol, only I sometimes use 14 gr. of 2400 inthe revolver loads. And, the Auto Rim cases are much easier to deal with in the Smith & Wessons for field loads than having to use the moon clips.:smile:

[StarMetal]

I have no problem cambering 45 short colts in my ACP cylinder.

I did a side by side comparison and Star-line, and R-P (The two brands I have the most of) have more capacity then ACP cases, and I could load them up with 2gr more of the same powder then I could the ACP brass.

Junior,

Is your Ruger the new or old model? Mine is the old model and on the 45 Colt the cylinders are counterbored and the Colt rims fit entirely inside them and the cylinder is just a hair shy of being up against the recoil shield. I too doubt a 45 Colt case shortened to 45acp length would fit either because of the tight clearance between the cylinder and recoil shield...where as that countersunk idea would.

Joe

[NHlever]

Well, I got my answer, and Bullshop Jr seems to have the right answer on capacities. I got Quickload for Christmas, and it showed up today. Using their default seating depths for the Lee 255 grain boolit, the ACP case shows much higher pressure than the AR case does. The program is nice to let you just switch between cases, and leave the load data the same.

[Bullshop Junior]

Mine is a 1990 NM. It was sent back to the factory about 2 years ago and had a new barrel, and two new cylinders fit.

[StarMetal]

Bullshop Junior,

This evening I found a split 45 Colt case, a Remington. So I trimmed it down to fit my 45acp cylinder. I thought well I'll load it and shoot just one tomorrow to see how it does. I sized the case, trimmed, then expanded it for the bullet. Primer, powder, seated the bullet. That's when the problem began. Even going into the seater it got sized down some. Even with that little sizing seating the bullet there is no way in Tarnation that cartridge was going to fit my acp cylinder. So then I looked among my dies that would size it a little further. I found something, sized it, and it fit. I'm positive the bullet is undersized now. I may just pull it apart to verify that. I'm at the conclusion that either your acp cylinder has really exaggerated chambers or that you're sizing the things down much as I have and shooting, I'll bet, an undersized bullet. I didn't think there was any free ticket with cutting down and using 45 Colt cases in the acp cylinder and I'm still thinking that. The only way I see to do that correctly is to inside ream the case or outside neck trim it.

Joe

[Bullshop Junior]

Bullshop Junior,

This evening I found a split 45 Colt case, a Remington. So I trimmed it down to fit my 45acp cylinder. I thought well I'll load it and shoot just one tomorrow to see how it does. I sized the case, trimmed, then expanded it for the bullet. Primer, powder, seated the bullet. That's when the problem began. Even going into the seater it got sized down some. Even with that little sizing seating the bullet there is no way in Tarnation that cartridge was going to fit my acp cylinder. So then I looked among my dies that would size it a little further. I found something, sized it, and it fit. I'm positive the bullet is undersized now. I may just pull it apart to verify that. I'm at the conclusion that either your acp cylinder has really exaggerated chambers or that you're sizing the things down much as I have and shooting, I'll bet, an undersized bullet. I didn't think there was any free ticket with cutting down and using 45 Colt cases in the acp cylinder and I'm still thinking that. The only way I see to do that correctly is to inside ream the case or outside neck trim it.

Joe
Joe,
I am just loading them in 45 ACP dies, and they drop right in, but I did find that my ACP cylinder is messed up.

What is the outside diameter where the boolit is on your round? Mine is .471" in a R-P 45 Colt case

[StarMetal]

Joe,
I am just loading them in 45 ACP dies, and they drop right in, but I did find that my ACP cylinder is messed up.

What is the outside diameter where the boolit is on your round? Mine is .471" in a R-P 45 Colt case

I too used the 45acp dies. I'll go measure mine and let you know.

Joe

[StarMetal]

Daniel,

Mine measures where the bullet is at .4756. I size my 45's at .452.

That's the largest that chamber will take too.

Joe

[Bullshop Junior]

Ok I am sizing my boolits .451".
Still it should not make that much difference......
My trimmer pilot might be taking out some metal.....

Also, I tried sizing some fired ones in a 45 colt die, and they still fit in the ACP cylinder.

[StarMetal]

Ok I am sizing my boolits .451".
Still it should not make that much difference......
My trimmer pilot might be taking out some metal.....

Also, I tried sizing some fired ones in a 45 colt die, and they still fit in the ACP cylinder.

I don't think that it. I made a mistake that case is a Starline not a Remington. Do you get the same size/fit no matter what brand brass?

Joe

[StarMetal]

Bullshop Junior and others,

If you've been following along you know I cut down a split 45 Colt Starline case to fit my 45 acp then loaded it. I had to size the case down a little more with the bullet in it. Okay...today I took that bullet out and by that I mean I didn't change it's diameter in doing so. It miked at .449. That's way under acceptable size for use in the 45 Ruger. Daniel we're not getting the whole story from you. Something is different about your 45acp cylinder.

Joe

[Bullshop Junior]

OK,
I did some more testing today.
I took and loaded some up in 45 Colt dies, and the cases where WAY bulged. where the boolit is it was .478", and would not chamber. So I ran it in my ACP seater die, and did note some "Sizing" marks on the case. It chambered tight. Pulled the boolit and it was
.449". I ran it in my Lee crimp die (I was doing this), and then pulled the boolit and it miked at .444".

So Joe was right and I was wrong.
Sorry for trying to prove you wrong Joe.

[StarMetal]

OK,
I did some more testing today.
I took and loaded some up in 45 Colt dies, and the cases where WAY bulged. where the boolit is it was .478", and would not chamber. So I ran it in my ACP seater die, and did note some "Sizing" marks on the case. It chambered tight. Pulled the boolit and it was
.449". I ran it in my Lee crimp die (I was doing this), and then pulled the boolit and it miked at .444".

So Joe was right and I was wrong.
Sorry for trying to prove you wrong Joe.

Daniel,

You posted this. I was interested. Nobody proved anyone wrong. Sure would be nice if it worked. You know the make these real short Cowboy cases. I have the website. I'm wondering too if the Schoefield cases may be thinner. I'll still save my split neck cases and maybe neck turn them. I think it's a cool idea.

Joe

[Bullshop Junior]

I was thinking that I might try to get a .452" inside neck turner.

[StarMetal]

I was thinking that I might try to get a .452" inside neck turner.

Part of the problem Daniel is the 45 acp case is tapered and although some say not much, it's very apparent in my 45 acp cylinder. That round I loaded would go in easy about halfway and get tight fast. I think I'll go with outside neck turning as then I won't have a limiting ledge inside the case to prevent seating a longer bullet.

Joe

[Bullshop Junior]

Part of the problem Daniel is the 45 acp case is tapered and although some say not much, it's very apparent in my 45 acp cylinder. That round I loaded would go in easy about halfway and get tight fast. I think I'll go with outside neck turning as then I won't have a limiting ledge inside the case to prevent seating a longer bullet.

Joe
I have a forester out side turner, I might try that.

[StarMetal]

I have a forester out side turner, I might try that.

You will need the long 45 cal pilot. If your Dad has a lathe he can make it for you.

Joe

[sundog]

Holy ****, Batman, the 45 ACP is tapered? I got derided for that in a 45 acp headspace thread a long time ago. But that's another story. Not for this thread. And, Joe, I agree with you.

The pic of the relieved cylinder is very interesting. 45 AR brass is the cat's meow in 1917 revolters. I've always used same-o-same-o load data between 45 ACP and 45 AR when loading cast for the 45 AR.

Even though 45 AR brass is great, the world's fastest speed loader is the full moon clip.

[ddixie884]

The .45 cowboy special is ACP or AR length with a proper inside diameter. That is why that guy who had Starline make it didn't just trim back .45 colt. If you want some Google .45 Cowboy Special.

[Larry Gibson]

"I will tell you that I have shot some stout 45 acp loads of it with heavy bullets and my bullets don't move anywhere."

Just goes to show that what happens to one individual is not necessarily what happens to others especially when it is described as a "potential" problem. I have had heavy bullets move out of ACP cases that were uncrimped in a very nice M1917. I was loading them up to some loads mentioned in a Guns Annual or Hand Loader Annual. They were healthy loads of Bluedot under a 260 gr Lyman 454424 pushing 1150 fps. I don't go there any more simply because those loads were probably too much for the M1917. The M1917 is also a pretty light revolver for an N frame and it's recoil with those heavy loads was snappy to say the least. Now i will add that it took 6 shots (I had shot 3 and reloaded another half moon clip) but 2 bullets of that one half moon clip moved out. One bullet move almost to the middle of the lube groove.

The crimp also helps with ignition when using slow burners like 2400. I gave up on those heavily loaded heavy bullet loads for the .45 AR simply because the increase in performance with heavy bullets didn't show me anything over a standard 200 gr SWC IPSC major load or my favorite load which is a soft cast 452490 (GC'd) over 7.5 gr of Unique. That gives the 245 gr SWC 1000 fps out of the 6 1/2" M25 barrel. If I do shoot the heavier 255/260 gr Kieth it is over 6.5 gr of Unique for 875 fps. However the IPSC major load of a 190-205 gr SWC over 5 gr of bullseye is extremely accurate and runs 890 fps.

Larry Gibson

[StarMetal]

"I will tell you that I have shot some stout 45 acp loads of it with heavy bullets and my bullets don't move anywhere."

Just goes to show that what happens to one individual is not necessarily what happens to others especially when it is described as a "potential" problem. I have had heavy bullets move out of ACP cases that were uncrimped in a very nice M1917. I was loading them up to some loads mentioned in a Guns Annual or Hand Loader Annual. They were healthy loads of Bluedot under a 260 gr Lyman 454424 pushing 1150 fps. I don't go there any more simply because those loads were probably too much for the M1917. The M1917 is also a pretty light revolver for an N frame and it's recoil with those heavy loads was snappy to say the least. Now i will add that it took 6 shots (I had shot 3 and reloaded another half moon clip) but 2 bullets of that one half moon clip moved out. One bullet move almost to the middle of the lube groove.

The crimp also helps with ignition when using slow burners like 2400. I gave up on those heavily loaded heavy bullet loads for the .45 AR simply because the increase in performance with heavy bullets didn't show me anything over a standard 200 gr SWC IPSC major load or my favorite load which is a soft cast 452490 (GC'd) over 7.5 gr of Unique. That gives the 245 gr SWC 1000 fps out of the 6 1/2" M25 barrel. If I do shoot the heavier 255/260 gr Kieth it is over 6.5 gr of Unique for 875 fps. However the IPSC major load of a 190-205 gr SWC over 5 gr of bullseye is extremely accurate and runs 890 fps.

Larry Gibson

Note too Larry that I put a heavy roll crimp on my 45acps for the Ruger cylinder. As you noted they didn't move till you shot more then just a couple rounds off. Like I said I don't think will five shot that the sixth would ever move enough to jam up a Ruger cylinder with that very long throat. I too agree the heavy loads in the 45acp just aren't worth it. Now I knew a detective in Tulsa, Ok that loaded the Speer 250 gr swaged bullet for his personal carry Combat Commander. Said he liked that heavy weight moving slow.



Joe